Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

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Comments

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,435
    First, how could they improve their quality so quickly?

    http://www.forbes.com/business/global/2005/0425/024_2.html

    "Chung's first step: Replace the bean counters in top management with engineers."

    Second, how can they sell their quality and fully equipped cars at such a low price?

    The cost of living in South Korea is low compared to the US or Japan; Korean autoworkers (militant unions and all) get something like $7 an hour, which is pretty nice for there. Also, the Asian financial crisis weakened the Korean won for a while, giving Hyundai and other Korean builders a price advantage. The won has strengthened in the last year or two, cramping Hyundai's export business somewhat.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    no wonder the major differences between my 99 sonata and my 04 model(although, the 99 was more akin to the xg350 in NVH, better than the 04, and 2-3mpg More, even! I do have auto-manual, though. A very nice feature).

    for sporty cars, the tC won for us due to our old tibby had tranny issues at 103,000 miles :mad:

    Sonata, well, to me, is the best Sedan deal right now, in it's class, due to content alone.

    I can get a 34MPG I-4 Sonata sedan for the price of many compacts.

    have a good one. Great story.
  • krispykreme1krispykreme1 Member Posts: 22
    The standard of living in South Korea is lower than in the U.S. or Japan, but it's not that low. Most people (myself included at one time) have the impression that South Korea is an impoverished, third world nation when in fact it a member of the OECD (a consortium of developed countries) and has the world's 11th largest economy. Here's also a comparison of GDP per capita figures from the World Factbook - U.S. $41,800, South Korea $20,300).

    Rather, I believe the secret to the lower prices has to do with the concept of "lifetime employment" found widely throughout Japan and South Korea. In this system, workers typically live in a company town (Hyundai-->Ulsan and Toyota-->Toyoda City) and accept lower pay but buy everything at subsidized prices. Since one company buying volume amounts of goods will cost less than each worker buying it individally, the company saves tremendously on labor costs in the long run. And because the rate of turnover is low under this system, employees also have higher morale and job security. GM and Ford could learn a lesson or two by observing these two cities. If you're interested, a good book that explains this concept in more depth is Confucius Lives Next Door.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,306
    Don't think it'll work here. George Pullman tried to build his own company town back in the late 19th century. He was so hated that he had to be buried in a grave filled with concrete and criss-crossed railroad ties for fear of angry workers digging up his grave and desecrating his body. We also know the success of all those company towns in coal regions.
  • krispykreme1krispykreme1 Member Posts: 22
    True, and that is because of cultural differences between the West and the East. The West promotes individualism while group conformity is more encouraged in the East. In my opinion, the two have their share of advantages and disadvantages and I think both could learn from each other.
  • carexpert101carexpert101 Member Posts: 6
    I came to this question after doing thorough research about Toyota Camry, Honda Accord and Hyundai Sonata. Shouldn't people know by now that Sonata is the best family sedan above Camry and Accord? Yet, people buy Camry and Accord more than Sonata. Why is that? I don't really understand. Sonata is far better in quality and cheaper in price, yet it's not the best selling sedan in America. Is it because people don't know about this fact or what? I need some answers to this puzzle. Thank you.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    No but they better fear Honda, because Honda is engineering better vehicles.

    Rocky
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    What Toyota, Hyundai, Honda and all others should fear the most is the first auto maker to bring a line of high mileage diesels to compete with VW. None of this will happen until after ULSD is widely available in the fall of 2006. Right now MB seems to be leading the charge, but the price is high. Jeep has a toe in the water with the Liberty CRD.
    None of this requires reinventing the wheel, they already exist.
    Yes diesel cost more in most places, but it is a variable, it can change over night.
    With an average 30% increase in MPG it won’t take long to make up the difference.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Shouldn't people know by now that Sonata is the best family sedan above Camry and Accord?

    How did you define "best"? That's a subjective view, and not everyone will hold the same opinion, obviously.

    Yet, people buy Camry and Accord more than Sonata. Why is that? I don't really understand.

    They probably don't agree with you. It does happen, you know.

    Sonata is far better in quality and cheaper in price, yet it's not the best selling sedan in America.

    Not quite, the current model scored well in JD Power's Initial Quality Study. That's a good thing, but that does not mean that the car will prove to be reliable over the long term, or that it is as desirable in other ways. But you're right, it's definitely cheaper.

    The Accord and Camry have long-standing reputations for both high initial quality and long-term reliability. The Sonata is a newcomer to the quality game, coming from the wreckage of the failed Excels of the 80's, and will still need to prove itself.

    It remains to be seen whether the improvements prove to be sustained and translate into long-term reliability. For now, some consumers will pass up on the lower price in favor of the sure thing, plus some may just prefer a different car that better suits their tastes.

    If Hyundai can keep this up for another 3-5 years, I'm sure it will stir things up on both sides of the Pacific. But it will have to keep hustling, Hyundai can't afford to relax now if it wants to grow its business.

    Thank you.

    You're welcome.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    What was he talking about socala4 ? The sonata=best :surprise: .... :cry:<-*laughter* That pile of tin foil isn't in the same league as the camcord or most of the domestics. Granted they've came along ways, but they also got to get a engine that doesn't sound like a dry-vac that's on it's last leg. Perhaps in 5 years they might be a bigger player, but I believe the Japanese and american car manufactors will be one step forward. The main reason why they are doing well is because of their nice warranty, that some of my friends that own a Hyundai have been using frequently. :D

    BTW- Mr. Carexpert101 The best family sedan in the world is a Acura TL. Good Quality, Engineering, Excellent Performance, State of the Art Technology, and awesome gas mileage, with a smooth VTEC engine that is refined and quiet until you hit 7,000. :P


    Rocky
  • krispykreme1krispykreme1 Member Posts: 22
    I think I read somewhere that Toyota affiliated suppliers also provide most of the parts for Honda. If Toyota even got the hint that Honda was gaining the upper hand, they could take preventive action but one of the reasons that Toyota "fears" Hyundai is that Hyundai has its own dedicated parts suppliers.
  • krispykreme1krispykreme1 Member Posts: 22
    I admit, Hyundai still has a long way to go it will be spoken in the same sentence with brands such as Toyota or Honda but their rate of improvement is nothing short of astonishing. Remember that Japanese cars once used to be unreliable and sold mainly because of cheap prices. Japanese brands became mainstream somewhere in the late 80s or early 90s, which basically means that it took them roughly 25 or so years to establish themselves. Hyundai, on the other hand, started selling cars in the late 80s and is now considered by many to be mainstream, which means that it took Hyundai almost a decade less than the Japanese to establish a firm footing in the U.S. market. It makes me wonder how long it will take the Chinese to repeat the same feat.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    What was he talking about socala4 ? The sonata=best

    Surprisingly enough, Edmunds ranked it as the winner in a 3-way comparison test.

    Gotta give Hyundai credit -- they used the Audi A6 as a benchmark, and ended up with a car with quality materials and the second most powerful engine in its class. (Even looks vaguely like an older A4 from some angles, too.) They're moving up fast, GM and Ford need to learn from them. (And these cars are being built in the US, so Hyundai is also more interested in hiring Americans than are GM or Ford. Why is it that the "foreign" companies are the ones most interested in giving our people jobs?)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Why is it that the "foreign" companies are the ones most interested in giving our people jobs?)

    That's a good question. I can't go into the brains of Wagoner and Ford. They soley are putting all the blame on the UAW/IUE for exporting jobs overseas. However we all agree if they built every car as rock solid they wouldn't lose so much market share. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    I think I read somewhere that Toyota affiliated suppliers also provide most of the parts for Honda. If Toyota even got the hint that Honda was gaining the upper hand, they could take preventive action but one of the reasons that Toyota "fears" Hyundai is that Hyundai has its own dedicated parts suppliers.

    They(Hyundai) also have most of the same suppliers as Toyota and Honda. I do know they buy from Gentex, Johnson Controls, Delphi, and that's alot of parts.

    BTW- Honda is getting the upper hand on Toyota. The Lexus/Toyota brand is getting over priced when you compare it to Acura/Honda brands. Do a car by car comparison of features, performance, quality, gas mileage, price, and see if you come up with the same conclusion of Honda/Acura getting the upper hand on Toyota. ;)

    Rocky
  • krispykreme1krispykreme1 Member Posts: 22
    They(Hyundai) also have most of the same suppliers as Toyota and Honda. I do know they buy from Gentex, Johnson Controls, Delphi, and that's alot of parts.

    That is true, but I believe the primary supplier to Hyundai Motor is called Hyundai Mobis.

    BTW- Honda is getting the upper hand on Toyota. The Lexus/Toyota brand is getting over priced when you compare it to Acura/Honda brands. Do a car by car comparison of features, performance, quality, gas mileage, price, and see if you come up with the same conclusion of Honda/Acura getting the upper hand on Toyota.

    I agree with you, but I don't think the "average car buyer" cares about anything more than reliability and reputation. While Toyota and Lexus do not offer the best engineered cars in the world (BMW and Mercedes-Benz come to mind for me), they fit the bill nicely by fulfilling these characteristics.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Do a car by car comparison of features, performance, quality, gas mileage, price, and see if you come up with the same conclusion of Honda/Acura getting the upper hand on Toyota.

    Actually, I see the opposite. Lexus is on board to compete just about head-on with BMW and Mercedes (and already is ahead of Audi and Infiniti), while Acura occupies an odd niche in between the bread-and-butter car market and the "true" luxury nameplates.

    The fact that Lexus can get away with selling IS's for more than Acura can sell TL's should tell you that Lexus is doing something right. A successful premium brand should allow a company to charge higher prices, not lower ones, that's what good branding is all about.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    I wouldn't waste $10K on a subcompact called "IS" when I can get a real drivers (without VDIM) car called the Acura TL and I can drive it in the snow. :P

    BTW- The same fly's with the RL, TSX, RSX, RDX, MDX, and NSX. They all represent the best cars with equal build quality Toyota and better engineering than Toyota at a significant price advantage. You simpily get more for your money which includes Technology. BTW- When your Lexus is blowing white smoke like the LS 400 at 150K, I'd zip buy you with a just broke in 250K Acura RL and smile all the way to the bank. :P

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,435
    Um, the IS was never a subcompact. (If it were, I'd already have one.) You can make a case for the original IS being a regular compact, albeit a porky one.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Well when you sit in the backseat and my knees are in my armpits then it's a subcompact in my eyes. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,615
    subcompact is the late 80's Honda CRX. An Everett, WA, Boeing friend of mine who passed away in the late 80's in a horrible one-truck accident used to heap praise on a little red '88 Honda CRX. He said it was the funnest car to drive because it had a peppy engine, was responsive in it's steering and had a tight little turning radius. ;)

    Ya know, I never even had to drive one for myself to see what he meant. He fell asleep at the wheel and went off the road in his pickup truck. Very, very sad story, but he loved cars and trucks and racing, and I respected his opinion.

    Anyhoo, the old-school late 80's Honda CRX is all about being subcompact(but not subpar). Modern day CRX's are what have my eye as futures to replace my '01 Kia Sportage 4x4. The 2006 Kia Rio LX sedan, Kia Rio5, 2006 Kia Sportage and Scion xA and tC are what I am concentrating on for next riggables. :blush:

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You simpily get more for your money which includes Technology.

    That's debatable, but even if it's true, price leadership is not generally an attribute that distinguishes a "luxury" brand.

    TMC has done a better job of elevating the status of Lexus above Toyota than Honda has of elevating the status of Acura above the Honda nameplate. In terms of the value of the brand, Lexus is a better position than Acura to command premium prices. As a stockholder or owner, you'd prefer to be in Toyota's position when it comes to luxury branding.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    I guess like GM cars and I like Acura's also. They are sporty, luxurious, and I can fit in them comfortably. Plus Honda doesn't charge you $10 or 20K for the name. It's like buying a good pair of equal Jeans. You can pay $30 bucks for Levi's or you can pay $60 for CK. ;) I agree Lexus has offered better products than Acura over the years but that isn't the truth anymore. Acura needs to market itself a lil' better.

    Rocky
  • carexpert101carexpert101 Member Posts: 6
    When it comes down to so called "Luxury", you should not count Azera of Hyundai out because if you have test-drove this incrediblly fully equipped luxury car, you will know what I am talking about. From interior to exterior, Azera is the dream car any body desires to own. Azera does not come short of Hyundai's description of Azera, which is "Setting a new standard for luxury car and the very best for the money you spend". If you buy Lexus or Acura, you are just wasting your money down the drain because Azera is about $15,000 to $20,000 cheaper than them but performs better and looks sleekier. I know this because I recently bought Azera, have driven my Dad's Lexus, and my sister's Acura TL. People tend to think just it's more expensive, it will perform better. However, one thing they don't know is that they pay more just because of the name brand. Test-drive yourself if you disagree with my post. You will never go back to Lexus or Acura if you give it a try. I guarantee it. I just can't wait for Hyundai to launch a luxury brand. ^^
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    From interior to exterior, Azera is the dream car any body desires to own

    I wouldn't go that far to say it is a car, any body desires to own. The Azera is a very nice car, but it's not right for everyone. It is lacking some luxury features that set brands like Lexus apart from others. These are the key features some consumers desire to have in a luxury vehicle.

    I wonder how the Azera will compare to the new ES. No one has driven it yet. I guess I have to reserve my judgment until I've actually driven the car.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    Motor Trend ranked it third out of three last month, behind the Passat 3.6 and the Avalon. The Azera was the least expensive though, by about $2 grand. Which is also the price advantage the next-gen Santa Fe will have over the Highlander.

    In the preview of the SF, MT went so far as to say "watch out Toyota, Hyundai is gaining on you". Of course, they like to say sensationalist things like that - it helps to sell magazines! :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,828
    Shouldn't people know by now that Sonata is the best family sedan above Camry and Accord?

    In what respect? Reliability? Price, maybe.

    I would think that the Camry and Accord would get a lot better gas mileage that the 24 mpg that I have achieved with 2005 Hyundai Sonatas that I have driven for two weeks this year.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story/7296ADED47004762CA256FF800069A6- - B?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,Bangle

    Moving onwards:

    Now, as for Sonata. Tons of 05 and 04's in my area, but only 2 new ones.
    I would not buy a new one, due to the looks of it.
    Unless it were 15K for the LX loaded(down from 24K or so).

    If I wanted a Toyota-Honda looking vehicle, I would buy one.

    It's not a bad car, but, for 18-21K, (for GLS mid-level model) I might even consider an Eclipse over the sedan Sonata(or any sedan right now, to be perfectly honest, or a cross over, as long as it is not as square or rectangular looking as a station wagon).
    Versatility is the thing.

    Take Care, Not Offense.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    even "pros" who rank cars disagree. Look at some AutoWeek magazine reviews, and they may agree on many points, but their is some disagreement, too, on issues. One guy may dislike the 0-60 of say acompact car, while another syas for the price point, and what it is supposed to be, it's fine.

    Later.Remeber: Driving is the ultimate test, for You, as an individual.

    I have driven 13 models of cars from various makers in 10 months: HHR, Caliber,Cobalt,Ford 500 and Fusion, PT Cruiser,Sonata,Rio ,Eclipse,Reno,Malibu.

    Plan on testing the Versa, perhaps the Yaris down the road.
    If they rework the xB later this year, as rumors have it, will test it.

    That's the only test that counts, IMHO.
    Mine, for me. ;)
  • carexpert101carexpert101 Member Posts: 6
    I have 2002 Toyota Camry LE V6. I have driven about 60,000 Miles, and from my experience, it is at best 22mpg on freeway and 20 mpg on local street. So, think twice about Toyota Camry having good mileage. If you have driven Toyota Camry, you will know what I am talking about.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    This should rest my case of anyone saying a Sonata in top trim can Match a Acura TL I respect your posts and opinions, but to say a Hyundai has met Acura or Lexus in Luxury is a lil' crazy. Hyundai hasn't even caught Buick, yet. The Hyundai had a decent interior, but is loaded with faux wood and the engine is about as refined as my vaccum cleaner (sound) which editors have quoted in comparison in car magazines.

    Ok it has 8 airbags and a good warranty (Azera) The Sonata isn't in the same ball park as the new Camry and definitly isn't as nice as the overall package you get from the Accord. :confuse: Yes they are cheaper, but you also don't get the technology that Acura or Lexus offers.

    This should rest my case of anyone saying a Sonata in top trim can Match a Acura TL :P


    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    ACURA
    2006 Acura TL 6-Spd MT w/ Performance Tires/Nav System

    HYUNDAI
    2006 Hyundai Sonata LX

    HYUNDAI
    2006 Hyundai Azera Limited

    VALUE AND WARRANTY

    First Vehicle
    Second Vehicle
    Third Vehicle

    Base Price MSRP $35,525 $22,895 $26,835

    Destination Charge $615 $600 $660

    Comparably Equipped Price $36,140 $24,895 $29,995

    Residual Values
    ALG Residual Value after 36 months 54% 41% Not Listed
    ALG Residual Value after 60 months 37% 25% Not Listed

    Warranty & Service Interval
    Basic Warranty Time (Months) 48 60 60

    Basic Warranty Miles 50000 60000 60000

    Powertrain Warranty Time (Months) 72 120 120

    Powertrain Warranty Miles 70000 100000 100000

    Rust Warranty Time (Months) 60 84 84

    Rust Warranty Miles Unlimited Unlimited Unlimited

    Extended Service Interval Standard Not Listed Standard

    COMFORT AND CONVENIENCE

    First Vehicle
    Second Vehicle
    Third Vehicle

    Automatic Climate Control Standard Standard Standard

    Rear Seat Heater Ducts Standard Standard Standard

    Power Windows Standard Standard Standard

    Power Door Locks Standard Standard Standard

    Adjustable Steering Column Standard Standard Standard


    Navigation System Acura Navigation System w/ Voice Recognition&#153; (Standard) Not Available Not Available


    Hands Free or Voice Activated Telephone Access HandsFreeLink&#153; Wireless Communication Access For Bluetooth® Enabled Devices (Standard) Not Available Not Available


    Steering Wheel Mounted Controls Steering Wheel Mounted Controls For Audio, Air Conditioning, Navigation System, Cruise Control and Phone (Standard) Steering Wheel Mounted Controls For Audio and Cruise Control (Standard) Steering Wheel Mounted Controls For Audio (Standard)

    Air Filtration System Standard Standard Standard

    Cruise Control Standard Standard Standard

    Homelink Remote System Standard Standard Standard

    Seats
    Leather Trimmed Seats Standard Standard Standard

    Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel Standard Standard Standard

    Front Bucket Seat Standard Standard Standard

    Power Driver Seat Standard Standard Standard

    Power Passenger Seat Standard Not Available Standard

    Front Power Memory Seat Standard Not Available Optional

    Front Heated Seat Standard Standard Standard

    Front Adjustable Seat Height Standard Standard Standard

    Fold-Down Rear Center Armrest Standard Standard Standard
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Sound System
    AM/FM Stereo Standard Standard Standard

    Cassette Standard Not Available Optional

    Compact Disc Player Standard Standard Standard

    Compact Disc Changer Standard Optional Optional

    Surround Sound Standard Not Available Not Available

    Satellite Radio XM® Satellite Radio (Standard) Not Available Not Available

    Panasonic ELS DVD-Audio 5.1 Surround Sound Standard
    Not Available Not Available

    Lighting
    High-Intensity Discharge Headlights Standard Not Available Not Available

    Automatic Headlights Standard Not Listed Standard

    Fog Lights Standard Standard Standard

    Cargo Area Light Standard Standard Standard

    Map Light Standard Standard Standard

    Glass & Mirrors
    Rear Window Defroster Standard Standard Standard

    Heated Mirrors Standard Standard Standard

    Power Mirrors Standard Standard Standard

    Vanity Mirror Standard Standard Standard

    Illuminated Vanity Mirrors Standard Standard Standard

    Power Rear Window Sunshade Not Listed Not Listed Standard

    Instrumentation
    Memory Adjustments Standard Not Available Optional

    Voice Recognition Voice Recognition&#153; Voice Activated Controls For Air Conditioning, Radio, Navigation System and Bluetooth® Enabled Devices (Standard) Not Available Not Available

    Tachometer Standard Standard Standard

    Outside Temperature Gauge Standard Standard Standard

    Maintenance Interval Indicator Maintenance Minder (Standard) Standard Not Listed

    Remotes & Releases
    Remote Trunk Release Standard Standard Standard

    Remote Fuel Filler Door Release Standard Standard Standard

    Storage
    Cargo Net Standard Not Listed Not Listed

    Door Storage Standard Standard Standard

    Seatback Storage Standard Standard Standard

    Armrest Storage Standard Standard Standard

    Trunk Pass-Through Standard Standard Not Available

    Console Storage Standard Standard Standard

    Coin Box Standard Standard Standard

    Beverage Holders Standard Standard Standard
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Sunroof/Removable Top
    Moonroof Standard Optional Optional

    PERFORMANCE & ENGINEERING

    First Vehicle

    Second Vehicle

    Third Vehicle

    Engine & Transmission
    Engine Name VTEC® 3.2L V6 (Standard) Standard Standard

    Cylinders 6 6 6

    Valves 24 24 24

    Valves Configuration SOHC DOHC DOHC

    Displacement CC 3210 3342 3778

    Bore X Stroke 3.50 X 3.39 3.62 X 3.30 3.78 X 3.43

    Compression Ratio 11.0:1 10.4:1 10.4:1

    Horsepower @ RPM [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]

    Torque @ RPM [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]

    Fuel System Multi-Point Fuel Injected Multi-Point Fuel Injected Multi-Point Fuel Injected

    Engine Location Front Front Front

    Driveline Standard Standard Standard

    Transmission Speeds 6 5 5

    Transmission Auto/Manual Manual Automatic Automatic

    Transmission Overdrive Y Y Y

    Drive-By-Wire Throttle System Standard Not Available Not Available

    Final Drive Ratio 3.29 3.33 3.33

    Extended Service Interval 100,000-Miles Extended Service Interval For Tune-Up (Standard) Not Listed Standard

    Fuel Economy
    Fuel-Economy City 20 20 18

    Fuel-Economy Highway 29 30 27

    Combined Fuel-Economy 23 24 21

    Steering, Braking, Traction
    Power Steering Standard Standard Standard

    Steering Rack and Pinion Rack and Pinion Rack and Pinion

    Turning Diameter, Left 39.7 35.8 37.4

    Braking System Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) (Standard) Standard Standard

    Brakes (Front) Disc Disc Disc

    Brakes (Rear) Disc Disc Disc

    Limited-Slip Differential Standard Not Available Not Available

    Traction Control System Standard Standard Standard

    Vehicle Stability Control System VSA® (Standard) Standard Standard
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Suspension and Tires
    Suspension (Front) Independent Double Wishbone Front Suspension With Coil Springs, Gas Shock Absorbers, Performance Ride Type and Shock Tower Brace Independent Double Wishbone Front Suspension With Coil Springs and Shock Absorbers Independent Double Wishbone Front Suspension With Coil Springs and Gas-Charged Shock Absorbers

    Suspension (Rear) Independent Multi-Link Rear Suspension With Coil Springs, Gas Shock Absorbers and Performance Ride Type Independent Multi-Link Rear Suspension With Coil Springs and Shock Absorbers Independent Multi-Link Rear Suspension With Coil Springs and Gas-Charged Shock Absorbers

    Stabilizer Bar Standard Standard Standard

    Tires SBRP235/45R17, High-Performance Tires SBRP225/50R17 Michelin® Pilot Tires SBRP235/55VR17, Tires

    Alloy Wheels Standard Standard Standard

    SAFETY

    First Vehicle

    Second Vehicle

    Third Vehicle

    Driver Airbag Standard Standard Standard

    Passenger Airbag Standard Standard Standard

    Front Side Airbags Standard Standard Standard

    Side Curtain Airbags Side Curtain Airbag (Standard) Standard Standard

    Seatbelt Adjuster Standard Standard Standard

    LATCH Upper Tethers Standard Standard Standard

    Tire Pressure Monitor Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) (Standard) Not Available Not Available

    Child Proof Rear Door Locks Standard Standard Standard

    Intermittent Wipers Standard Standard Standard

    Speed Sensing Interval Wipers Standard Standard Standard

    Head Restraints (2nd Row) Standard Not Listed Standard

    NHTSA Front Driver Crash Test 5* Not Listed Not Listed

    NHTSA Front Passenger Crash Test 5* Not Listed Not Listed
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Anti-theft
    Vehicle Theft-Deterrent System Standard Standard Standard

    Radio Theft-Deterrent System Standard Not Available Not Available

    DIMENSIONS AND CAPACITIES

    First Vehicle

    Second Vehicle

    Third Vehicle


    Curb Weight, MT 3483 Not Applicable Not Applicable

    Curb Weight, AT Not Applicable 3458 3629

    Ground Clearance 5.8 6.3 6.4

    Height 56.7 58.0 58.7

    Length 189.3 188.9 192.7

    Track (Front) 62.1 62.0 62.2

    Track (Rear) 62.0 61.4 61.6

    Wheelbase 107.9 107.4 109.4

    Width 72.2 72.1 72.8

    Capacity & Volume
    EPA Class Mid-Size Cars Large Cars Large Cars

    Cargo Volume (Manufacturer) 12.5 16.3 Not Listed

    Fuel Tank Capacity 17.0 17.7 19.8

    Passenger Volume (Manufacturer) 97.9 105.4 106.9

    Seating (Standard) 5 5 5

    Interior Dimensions
    Headroom (Front) 38.7 40.1 40.2

    Headroom (Rear) 37.2 38.2 38.2

    Legroom (Front) 42.8 43.7 43.7

    Legroom (Rear) 34.9 37.4 38.2

    Shoulder Room (Front) 58.3 57.4 57.9

    Shoulder Room (Rear) 55.7 56.9 57.1
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    That should quiet some of ya'll up ! :P

    Trying to say any Hyundai is as good as an Acura as I just proven is compeletely ludacris. ;) If I wanted to be mean I could of through a IS 350 and a Acura RL in their to rub it in a little more. :blush: Ya'll saying a Azera is as good as any Acura or Lexus :confuse:

    I'll put it this way. A Hyundai Azera is a poor man's Buick Lucerne minus quality, technology, luxury, and fit and finish. :P No seriously ! :D

    The Sonata is a poor mans Acura TL or Lexus ES without the Luxury, Technology. Does the Sonata even have power windows :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Ok it's a OK car for the money. Not my cup of tea, and I'd rather drive an American Made Buick Lucerne that is built in the best plant in the world according to J.D. Power.

    I laugh at what they call Buick floaty. :confuse: They better go test drive a Lucerne CSX again. It rides just like my former Caddy Seville STS which also had Magnaride which is a good thing. ;) The Lucerne/LaCrosse are way to Sexay :shades: to be compared to the Azera. The Buicks are like models, Heather Cox-ish :D The Hyundai is like a Preagnant Britney Spears :P

    Rocky
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    As a recent TL owner, I'd agree with you about the quality of said vehicle. But, after driving both the Azera and Sonata, they are pretty damn close. While Acura and Hyundai do not compete directly, it's not far-fetched for someone to switch from a TL to an Azera. Don't get me wrong, TL is a great vehicle, one of the best, in my opinion; Azera, however, does match in various areas (didn't get a chance to read everything you posted but most of the features listed are similar but at a lower sticker price).

    With the above said, TL will still compete much with the likes of G35 and other similarily priced premium sedans; while Azera's main target is still Avalon, more than anything else.

    I am eagerly awaiting how the RWD Hyundai luxury sedan will turn out; plans call for to compete 5er, A6, GS...and of course, will undercut the competition...
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Fair enough. I like Technology and a car that isn't floaty. So I will stick to Buicks, Cadillac, Acura's over any Hyundai offereng yet. ;)

    In my opinion they are all superior to anything out of Korea.

    BTW- The Avalon is WAY better than the Azera, not to mention prettier and much better made. ;)

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAMember Posts: 15,306
    ...with Hyundai's me-too styling. The Azera looks like a knock-off of a Camry and the Sonata looks like an Accord. If I want a Camry or Accord, I'll get the real thing, not an imitation. I liked the XG300 and X350 better. They kind of had a Bentley mixed with Lincoln flavor. The Kia Amanti is so far out it's cool. Who else but the Koreans would try to cross a Buick LeSabre with an E-Class with a Chrysler grille?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    LOL...OMG...you to funny...... I never put all 3 togeather, but you are absolutely right :D

    Rocky
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    I would call it so far out it is truly bizarre. Saw one yesterday with the Enterprise 'E' sticker on it. Very weird looking car, not so different from some of the weird Chinese designs coming up.

    People will continue to switch to Hyundais from other brands, mainly domestic I would guess, although Hyundai will get a few Japanese converts too with the latest Sonata and Azera. They will probably draw the buyers away more from the second-tier companies who have been competing on warranty and price for a while (like Mitsubishi), than they will from the first-tiers. Toyota will not be afraid to use small cash incentives to move Camrys if it perceives sales dropping because of the Korean competition. And the new Camry is just arriving at dealers now, very well-equipped without a price increase. You can still get an auto-LE for about $21K sticker, probably $19K real-world after the initial rush. And it's better-equipped than the old model. Looks better too, IMO.

    Nobody bought the old XG or the current Amanti, so in terms of Hyundai's bottom line, Sonata and Azera should be very good for the company - much more mainstream, loaded to the gills, and still $2000 less than competing Japanese models with the longer warranty to boot. That theme will be continued later in the year with the '07 Santa Fe. I have no doubt that everybody, including Toyota, should be keeping an eye over their shoulder for the upcoming Koreans.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    Seeing as Amanti won an APEAL award from JD Powers..... and their sales goals for the Amanti and XG were only 15,000 units per year, and they sold over 20K(give or take).... makes that successful.

    Whatever. I'll drive whatever any of you tell me I should drive, AS LONG AS YOU MAKE THE PAYMENTS ! Who's gonna buy me that IS? :P

    TRUTH MAKES PEOPLE MAD, AND BY YOUR RESPONSES, MANY OF YOU, TRUTH MUST HURT LIKE SALT IN A CUT! :D
    I LOVE IT, protest some more, make me laugh. The world needs more laughter! So many unemployed, angry comedians posting here, for FREE!

    BTW, I AM STILL WAITING FOR ONE DUDE WHO SAID THERE ARE SOOOO MANY NEGATIVE REPORTS ON AZERA(THERE ARE NONE). I BELIEVE THE PROS, Facts OVER OPINIONS. :D

    Later:
    I'm going back to other sites, where adults post, and can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

    :P

    One last comment: POST FACTS,Links to facts,etc, and not just opinions posted as facts. Makes you look more informed, intelligent. :D
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Seeing as Amanti won an APEAL award from JD Powers..... and their sales goals for the Amanti and XG were only 15,000 units per year, and they sold over 20K(give or take).... makes that successful.

    The Amanti achieved 19,894 sales in 2004. In 2005 the Amanti went down to 18,668 (over 20k?) units. Did you know that Kia sells over 50% of their Amanti's in fleets? The Amanti was successful in fleets.

    Here are some "Links to facts."
    link title
    Fleet sales: link title

    The Amanti doesn't seem to be off to a good start either.
    The Amanti's sales dropped drastically. Albeit it is too early to tell, the sales seem to be going down.
    Y-T-D
    2005: 1,131
    2006: 4,202
    link title

    Lets take a look at the XG's sales.
    The XG's 2005 sales, including the new Azera is 17,645 (over 20k?). The XG's 2004 sales were 16,630. Must have gone up because of the introduction of the Azera, and the large incentives to clear the XG's. Oh and according to that fleet site, Hyundai sells around 13% of their XG's in fleets.
    XG sales:link title

    Next time you make a statement, "over 20k (give or take)." Take your own advice and POST FACTS,Links to facts. Makes you look more informed and intelligent. ;)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,726
    to put things in perspective.

    Toyota is never going to be worried about a manufacturer that sets sales forecasts for mainstream sedans at 15K. They sell more than 400K Camrys per year, including fleet sales of approx 60K.

    In terms of how much Toyota is worrying today, the Amanti and XG did not sell in any meanginful numbers. If anyone inferred that I meant those were not successful models for Hyundai and Kia, please understand that is not what I meant. They were, meeting sales forecasts.

    But until they want to sell 200K Sonatas and 50K Azeras annually, they will not be more than a distant blip on the radar of a company like Toyota. Like I said, Hyundai is a company for Toyota to keep one eye on over its shoulder at present.

    What is the Kia "equivalent" of the Sonata, the Optima? When will that model be revised to share mechanicals with the new Sonata? Is there a new Amanti anywhere in the offing?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • carexpert101carexpert101 Member Posts: 6
    Dear Rockylee,

    I have read your post about comparison between Acura TL and Azera. One thing you keep forgetting is that Acura TL is $10,000 to $15,000 higher price than Azera. It's like comparing $550,000 house (Acrua TL) to $400,000 house (Azera). Of course, you will get better quality if Acura TL lives up to its high price tag. But what I am saying is that Acura TL's quality is far superior so that I am willing pay extra $10,000 to $15,000? No, I don't think so. The gap is very small between these two vehicles. I strongly believe that Azera is the very best car you can get for the money you spend. Also, I just can't believe you are sill comparing Azera to Lucern because Lucern might have good quality but it's very unreliable. As a pre-owner of Buick, I know that they are notorious for many defects. Sometimes it does not matter how sexy it looks or how good it is in quality if it makes buyers go to mechanic shop every month (I spent more money on fixing my Buick than buying a new one). According to J.D. intial study and many car consumer reports, they rated Lexus and Hyundai having the fewest defects, 12 per 100 vehicles. While Acura and Buick scored bottom half. Rockylee, one thing you need to remember is that many people nowadays value price and reliabilty as top priorities when they choose to buy cars. In that regards, Hyundai stands highest above all. "Very best car for the money you spend"
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,435
    What is the Kia "equivalent" of the Sonata, the Optima? When will that model be revised to share mechanicals with the new Sonata?

    The new Optima should be showing up sometime this year. It's a bit smaller than the Sonata and gets the 2.7 V6 as the big motor; aimed more for the European market.

    Is there a new Amanti anywhere in the offing?

    It gets a facelift soon, but stays on the existing platform for a few more years.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    "Fair enough. I like Technology and a car that isn't floaty. So I will stick to Buicks, Cadillac, Acura's over any Hyundai offereng yet.

    In my opinion they are all superior to anything out of Korea.
    "

    Not exactly fair assessments but to each own. I would, however, invite you to test drive the Sonata/Azera to see what all the fuss is about :)

    "BTW- The Avalon is WAY better than the Azera, not to mention prettier and much better made.

    Rocky"

    I would not go that far. Overall, I would give a slight edge to the Avalon...but for the money and the extra features, Azera is a formidable competitor (very much so) to the Avalon.

    As for the prettier comment - I don't think the average age of Avalon buyers is looking for pretty cars :) but reliable, YES!!
This discussion has been closed.