Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra vs Dodge Ram



  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Ford F-150 is the only full size truck with standard 4 wheel antilock ventilated disc brakes. Chevy uses rear drums and Dodge uses 4 wheel discs--but rear ABS only is standard and they are not vented. Only Ford uses 3" rear springs. Chevy and Dodge (and Nissan and Toyota as well) use 2-1/2" rear springs. Ford has a thicker frame than Chevy and Dodge and the Chevy uses no front end structure at all--everything hangs off the fenders. Ford uses the longest bed bolts and only Ford bolts the bed through the subframe and straight into the frame of the truck. Ford mounts the rear shocks 51" apart--outside the frame--to make the ride smoother and more stable. Chevy and Dodge (plus Nissan and Toyota) mount the rear shocks 30" apart--inside the frame. Ford uses the largest oil filter and the largest capacity radiator. Ford uses cast aluminum in the front suspension to make the handling more nimble and lower road noise. Ford F-150 is the only truck to consider if you really look at it with an objective mind.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    With all that said about the Ford's frame, which by the way is now second behind the more rigid '06 Ram's frame, you failed to mention the main reason people buy pick-ups: The engine and towing capacity. Ford blows on both accounts. The 300hp Triton is not enough to pull the truck smoothly without straining let alone pull a 9000lbs trailer. The Dodge can when properly equipped. Ford's frame is not thicker than the fully-boxed hydro-formed Dodge frame any longer. Ford uses the largest oil filter and capacity radiator? So what, it still doesn't add anymore needed hp for all it's worth.

    The Ford will soon be left all by it's lonesome when the '07 Chevy's and Toyota's hit the seen late next year and Ford hasn't made any clear plans to fully revise the F-150 except for added trim changes. The Ford is a good pick-up for what it is, but to say it's superior to the Dodge, what an overstatement. And to add all of the quality issues that have plagued the F-150 as of late, it doesn't purport to be the it truck after all.

    I recently bought a '06 2500 HD Megacab 4x4 /CTD and it will swallow a F-250 whole. Word is out Ford is preparing an extended version of the Super Duty to compete with the awesome limo-of-a-truck Megacab. Who's following the leader now????
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    Ford mounting the shocks on the out side of the frame does nothing to smooth the ride quality, it is simple a gimic they abvertise to catch your eye. Ventilated 4 wheel disc brakes may be standard on the Ford but rarely can you find a nice Chevy or Dodge lacking this feature. Plus the bed on the F-150 is fit only for buyers 7'6". I'm 6'3" and I can barely peep over the bed when the massive tail gate is down.

    Stick with the silverado. Best engine choices along with the rugged Duramax deisel and Allison transmisson which is a down scaled version from Allison's military branch. The long and short is Dodge is a solid truck, Fords a solid truck for way tall guys and Chevy solid regardless. Stick with GM. There only getting better in 2007.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    blkhemi, we are not talking about super duty trucks. We are talking about 1/2 ton trucks. The F-150 can tow 9900 lbs when properly equipped. It's torque that is important in towing and the 5.4 Triton has 365 ft-lbs. Right in line with the competition. The largest oil filter and radiator are just two examples of attention to detail that Ford uses. The 2007 Chevys are not out yet. Until they are we can see what Ford does. Finally, I posted with facts. Cold, hard facts. Anyone can look them up. I did not post opinion. Your statement of "I recently bought a '06 2500 HD Megacab 4x4 /CTD and it will swallow a F-250 whole" is your opinion and you're welcome to it. Ford has been #1 for about 29 years now and I have no doubt that Ford will do what it takes to stay there.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Again with more opinion. I am 6'2" and I can tell you for a fact that I see just fine out the back of my 2005 SuperCrew. Ford uses the deepest bed, that is why the tailgate is so tall. Outside mounted shocks are not a gimmick, it works. Go to and go to the F-150 page. They have video of all the 2006 trucks going through the slalom. The Titan does the worst, but Ford is certainly the best. Not my opinion. Facts. Also, one more time, the 2007 Siverado is not out yet, so we can not talk about it here. I have no doubt that Chevy and Dodge will one day catch up to what Ford is doing, but Ford will pull away once again. (okay, that is my opinion)
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    I have not gone to and done all that but I will say that commercial they used to run about those outside shocks is FAKE. Ford unscrewed the sigh that said Chevy Silverado on it there for it wobbled more in the test than the nicely screwed on Ford sighn. Is your F-150 4x4 or 4x2? You can see into the 2 wheel drive but the 4x4, you about need high heels. :)
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    okay, whatever you say. BTW, mine is 2WD.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    First off, the topic says "Chevy vs. Dodge"(no Blue Ovals were invited to start with), so it can be 1500, 2500, or 3500 trucks.

    Being "#1" doesn't make it the best truck out there. Maybe that's why Ford is in the tank now on the brink of bankruptcy because it is doing "everything it can" to make sure the F-Series trucks remain there(leaving behind in the dust it's undesirable car units, except for the Mustang).

    And you mentioned torque is what's important in towing. The Dodge has 375ft-lbs of it, the Nissan four better at 379.

    The facts that you posted are true and direct(save about the frame statements, read up on the '06 Dodge frame revisions), however to make these facts appear that the Ford is superior over all others is just blasphermous. The Ford may have all of the trinkets in it's parts arsenal, what matters is how they are used. Judging by the latest of the usual Fix Or Repair Daily problems and quality issues, it appears that the Ford is still Built FORD "tough". (Toby Keith, how funny is that for a campaign ad)
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    You are absolutley correct, the topic was Chevy vs Dodge. I guess there is nothing wrong about a discussion about who makes the second best truck. If Dodge stepped up and answered Ford's call on the frame, then great. I will read about it. That is what makes competition wonderful. Ford creates a better mouse trap so the others step up to match it. I'm sure Chevy will do more with the 2007 version of its Silverado. Go ahead with your discussion. I would just suggest that you stick to the facts. Opinions like "my truck will stomp your truck into the ground" serve no real purpose and inform no one about anything. The truth about trucks proves Ford makes the best-built truck on the market. I like the Dodge. It was my second choice. I hope the new Mega Cab is a huge success. But, when push came to shove, the facts supported the F-150. Good luck on your new truck--I hope it gives you many years of reliable service. Now back to your "I'm #2!" discussion...
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    Ford may have a lock on the pick-up sgment but they ought to be first. GM splits there sales 75% Chevy and 25% GMC, so the fact Ford out sales Chevy should be a given. You are exactly right about Ford spending everything they have in keeping the F-150 #1. They have all but abandoned there waining car segment( other than the Mustang ) That is what makes GM and Toyota over Ford in overall sales. However read up on the sales figures of last year. Chevy is closing the gap on the F-150 by a good margain. Chevy may be #2 now but if the 2007s hit the market with a storm,
    Chevy may take over the throne for #1 truck.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The Ford is still NOT best in class, no matter how many frivilous features they put on it. Outboard shocks? SO what, it's still located by a solid axle, so just like GM and Dodge, it has tail/axle hop. No doubt about it. The ride is smooth, but GM has the one up on that one for the overall smoothness.

    It may be #1(in sales of course :P), but it's still Found On the Road Daily. Aplenty of them. The Ford is a nice piece, but when you take into consideration all of the quality probs on a truck that's just 2 years old, something is severely wrong
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    Ford is not the best truck and really never has been. Quality probs have plauged them and thats why they are the best selling truck. Folks buy one Chevy, it lasts 15 years, Folks go thru 9 Fords in that time period.

    Your right, Ford is Found on the Roadside Daily( Broked down :D )
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Still no facts, though. My F-150 has no recalls on it. What problems are you referring to?
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    It doesn't need recalls to have a multitude of TSB's. Ford has a huge problem recalling their automobiles. Now with the NTSB and DOT breathing down their necks, they have no choice but to do so. I'm glad DC and GM elect to recall their vehicles early on, and not put human life in jeopardy.
    The F-150 without one recall, well that explains all of the quality problems that it's experiencing.

  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    I don't know, you haven't posted any. Ford would not sell the trucks they do if they were junk. It isn't all rebates and incentives selling the F-150, either. Ram and Silverado are as deeply discounted as anything else. Dodge has even given away 2 years of gas to try to sell trucks like Ford does. The Titan has probelms...
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    The Titan bashes, smashes, and crashes the F-150! :sick:
    The Titan is 1 second faster thatn the Ford 0-60, Runs quarter mile shorter and faster than the ford, tows 1200lbs more when properly equipped than the ford and averages the same mileage according to CR. Motortrend says that the Titan saves an average of $1000! The Titan has a bigger engine engine, beds down where you ca use it and did I fail to mention the Titan brakes to a stop from 60mph 10 feet shorter distanse than the ford.
    Try arguing with those facts ;)
    I dunno whats the better truck? :confuse:
    I dunno about you but the Ford F-150 is like the truck on the Mitsubishi Radier Commercal. It wet it fuel pump :P
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Ford kicked off the free fuel and maintenance program, and I don't know if you know how things work in Detroit, if one maker does it, they all follow. Ford all but gives away the F-150 through incentives and rebates. Example:

    My father was a Ford nut up until his '05 King Ranch 4X4 Supercrew EXPLODED on him a few months ago. The truck had only 678 miles on it at the time of lost. And yes, this is NOT an isolated incident, so your recall-less F-150 may indeed fire up on you. The sticker on the truck was $41,586.34. After a host of Ford "entrapments" and other FMCC discounts, his out the door price was $26.5K. So yes, Ford even beats GM in trapping people in their cantankerous vehicles.

    So the long and short of it is he is a proud owner of a '06 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 w/HEMI(of course), and vows never to return to Ford(whoa, big shocker)

    More facts for you. Since you're a fact man, check out the top 2 professional reviewers (J.D. Powers and Wards), and tell me what pick-ups are in the top, including their powertrains. I'll give you a clue: It sure as heck is not Ford!
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Since you're 14 years old, you should have plenty of time on your hands--since you're not driving and all. You do a good job of mimicing Nissan's hype--but you're way off. F-150 tows 9500 lbs--properly equipped. Titan does NOT tow 10,700 lbs. Go to and select the F-150 page. You will see how the 2006 Titan lost traction in the 30 mph slalom and almost spun out while the Ford was smooth as glass. You will find the truth about trucks there. Why did Titan not win Motor Trend's Truck of the Year when it was introduced? Because you can only have one winner and Ford F-150 was the winner. The Dodge that blkhemi is so proud of got beat out by the minivan-based Honda Ridgeline for the award this year. Yes sir, that Ram must be one great truck! You went from being a huge Chevy fan to a Titan promoter based on one guy posting in another thread that you started? One day you will discover the truth and jump on the bandwagon of the truck leader--Ford F-150. But it will take maturity and reasoning skills. You have a few years.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Sorry to hear about your dad's truck. Bummer. It is an isolated incident--if it even ever happened. You say he bought a $41k truck for $26.5? That's bull. Maybe if he put $10k down on it! My 2005 SuperCrew stickered for $33,600 and I got it for a little over $25k. That was the Ford Family price less rebate. Since you fib about the selling price of your dad's truck, I doubt there was ever a truck at all. Why don't you post a picture of it? Maybe a picture of the tag receipt for it? Maybe anything that proves this truck ever existed. I know this sounds crazy, but when someone makes junk up in place of actual facts, I've got to call them on it.

    BTW, Ford F-150 is the proud owner of the JD Power award for Initial Quality. The proof is in the construction. The more you know about trucks, the more you know that Ford is the one and only.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Ah, the Nissan didn't win the Motor Trend TOY, but it prevailed in quite a few other publications: Truck 4x4(which also said the Ram was the tow vehicle of choice for it's solid chassis and shock tuning), just to name one. So Dodge got run over by a Honda? At least Dodge isn't in jeopardy of Honda and Toyota putting their nameplates on the grille in place of the rusty Blue Oval as the company is nearly brain-dead(bankrupt).:P
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    Did they teach you anything at UGA, if you did indeed go to school. A man of the Lord doesn't lie about ANYTHING. The Ford was a disaster when it left the assembly line. Squeaks and rattles abound in the cabin. oh and the big KABOOM on I-75. Sorry no pics, the NTSB got the truck from his insurance company to investigate Ford's growing practices of making Lego-block like product that break apart at the slightest "pull". '91 was a longtime ago, I know, but if you read a little further down the page at JD Powers, tha's for '04 and '05 Intial Quality. Try again.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    I have been posting facts. blkhemi has been posting opinion and urban myths. 79customd is too young to know better. I apologize to him for my reaction. I am the adult here and I need to act like it. In all seriousness, if either of you wants to find out the truth, click here: 4

    There you will find the truth. They have video proof about what I am saying. Pay special attention to the videos about the frame, suspension and handling. Below the videos, they point out in bullet point format the key advantages of Ford over the competition. This has gotten crazy. Yes, I did graduate from the University of Georgia in 1991 and I need to act like it. Have a good day.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    UGA, how do you expect someone to believe a guy who's examining trucks, yet doesn't have a peck of dirt on him? The TRUTH is that if you think that one pick-up truck beats every other truck in EVERY category, then Ford may as well employ you right along with Bill Ford because there is no way one truck can out-do the comp in every category. It's funny that you mentioned oil filters and radiators. I guess you didn't pick up on the guy not pitching the Ford up against the Ram. That is because the Ram has the Ford beat in both categories. One last thing. On the Silverback road, why did they show slow motion on all other pick-ups EXCEPT F-150. Ah, the Ford has to win no matter what.

    The TRUTH, Ford ought to be demolished for slandering these great pick-ups.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    You're obviously not going to like seeing the truth--you will deny what your eyes are showing you. You're right about one thing--they do not show the results of each test versus each competitor. No doubt that some others do as well as--or even better than--the F-150 on some things. Overall, Ford comes out on top. The Silver Creek test is shown at the same speed for all trucks--they all looked slowed down so you can see the beds shaking around (excpet for on the F-150, of course). I have my video proof. Still waiting on yours.
  • iowabigguyiowabigguy Member Posts: 552
    The discussion was comparing the Dodge and Chevy. No mention of Ford. They make a fine product however you will have a hard time convincing loyal Chevy of Dodge owners of that fact. Why not go back to the Ford Forums and let us get back to the original discussion. Thanks
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Becuase this is not a real Dodge Vs Chevy thread. This was started by a 14 year old who was given his grandfather's 1979 Chevy truck. He used to be all gung ho Chevy until someone in another thread said the Titan was good. Now, he's all gung ho Titan. There is only 1 Dodge owner here anyway and he only spews opinion to my fact.

    The reality here is that there is NO Ford activity here in Town Hall. I'm even trying to have active discussion in the Honda Ridgeline thread--of all places--simnply because they maintain regular conversation. Besides, it's fun to point out Ford virtues to folks who choose to ignore fact for personal preferance.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The Dodge and Chevy still ranks higher than Ford in longevity test over several years. So for all of your Ford hype, what good is it going to do you when it doesn't last as long as Chevy(1) Dodge(2). One other TRUTH note: When they where discussing the frontal frame designs, the guy on Ford's payroll showed every truck except Dodge. There was a Dodge lurking behind him, but he didn't show it. Maybe that's because he didn't want to explain that the Dodge gets a 5-star crash rating, due to it's "poor" design.:P

    Maybe that goes along with that Ford biasing video, no matter what you, Toby, or any other Ford guy says. Those are facts Georgia.

    P.S.- You may have a better chance at selling your PowerJoke Ford hype over at the Ford threads, as this was a Chevy v.Dodge thread to start. But wait a minute. All of the Ford guys are talking about all of the quality and tranny problems they are experiencing. Just a couple more facts.:P :shades: ;)
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    I live out in an isolated farm area of NC. Plenty of off the state maintained roads. I drive all the time!! I'm sure thats not the same as running 20mph faster but heck, driving is driving and on the farm you need good trucks. I dunno where yawll are from but I assumed that that was fairly common. Heck I drive a 3 in the trees straight shift better than most people. I'm here to tell you, I just don't like a truck that you have to stand up in the hay loft to load anything into that ridiculosly high bed! The man who built the barn drove a F-150, nice truck, not up to par with any of the trucks listed above. We're from the cuntry. Kids my age drive all the time on farms. I mean we have 3-5 mile paths off the paved roads. And on the farm its all heavy duty work. Sure that aint a proven fact but that Ford is not what the Chevy, or Titan is.

    I started this on the Titan because Uga claimed it was the inferior truck. But as I've learned from his higher knowledge is that anything that the F-150 is not number one in is not important, so :confuse:

    Chevy is still the best and the 2007s are gonna make the Ford mess in its filters and that is a fact! :D
    I am 14, but I just assumed yawll had experience with cars before yawll became adults, missed an awesome experience.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    blkhemi, the Ford videos do spend quite a bit of time on the new Dodge frame. You must have missed it. They even put a 2006 Ram up on the rack and filmed a whole video under neath it. Rick pointed out that the new Ram frame is greatly improved and praised Dodge for beefing up the frame. He then went on, however, to point out that Dodge did not trough-weld the frame like Ford did and that the Ford frame is still thicker. You might want to check the videos again.

    I don't know why there is not more Ford chatter in Town Hall. If you check, the Problems thread for Dodge is much larger than the one for Ford. I guess everyone in a Ford is too busy working with their trucks to spend time writing about them.
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    Fords are more maintenence hungry simply due to there complex OHC layout. Both the Chevy and the Dodge use OHV or pushrod layouts wich isn't as "Hi-tech" but is as efficent and has less parts that can fail or malfunction. The Pushrod layout has been with the GM and has staid with GM in the 5.7L and the more rescent 5.3L V8s. Dodge uses it in the 318, the 360 and the Hemi V8s. Ford has never had great quality control so Ford needs to concentrate more on basic simple engines not complex techno-wecko engines. Here lys another reason while Dodge and Chevy are superior trucks to Ford. Simpler and higher quality.

    I know another reason that Yawll( uga91 ) like the F-150 so much. All of your facts are based on Guess who does!! Do you think Ford wants to make there truck look bad on there own website? Is an unbiased look at there products. I rarely if ever go to in search of info, because its biased. Also, stuff like JD Power is easily paid off by the maker who wants free abvertising. If JD Power reccomends Ford, Dodge or Chevy, its that much more abvertising for that maker so a little cash does flow behind the scenes.

    I know I'm keeping you from your repair work on yawlls F-150s so I better go. ;)
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    I said "working with" not "working on" their trucks.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    is how well the truck executes the job that the maker designed it for. My Ram does NOT have the second motions that was displayed at Silver Creek. It's funny how all of the other trucks had some sort of suspension or shock differentiation, whereas the Ford was aplomb. Hardly.

    I'm not going to be a Ford buyer, you're not going to be a Chevy or Dodge buyer. That is understood and I respect that. But don't trounce every other truck in the market because it doesn't behave like a Ford.

    Honest to Goodness, my Ram rides comfortably, tows 9500 pounds without a sweat(ok maybe gas), has gadgets galore, and has the style and attitude to dance with the best of them. I couldn't fathom the thought of buying anything else. Love what you buy.
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    That is the truth. There are some good trucks out there built to meet your everyday needs and all are pretty fair products. GM has the top of the list in my mind due to rock hard durability and longevity with little to no repair bill, Dodge would probably have to be next. I don't like the fact dodge named the 5.7L the "Hemi" but it is a solid yet thirsty engine. The Titan is next due to class blowout specifications and performance. There are others that are good to and I beleive you should buy what you like and stick with it. ;)
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    You're making the claim of supposed Ford superiority based on the numbers game, you know, by measuring the length of bolts or oil filters or radiators. Unfortunately things like this do not dictate either fitness-of-purpose or supremacy. In addition, the items you mentioned were self-serving. There are mechanical parts on the Chevy or Dodge that are bigger or longer. But in the evaluation of trucks it is not size that matters, but performance.

    The use of a larger oil filter does not mean a lot. What matters is capacity and efficiency. Can you prove that the oil filter on a Ford is either just because its bigger?

    In the case of the larger radiator it may actually point to a negative aspect. All manufacturers design engine/power systems to operate within a design temperature range under all of the envisioned conditions the vehicle might encounter. The fact that a radiator is larger on one vehicle may indicate that the engine runs hotter and must transfer more heat per gallon of flow than another.

    I think you're making the assumption that Ford has provided a larger operating margin in this case, but there is no empirical evidence to support that. In addition engineers need to ensure that an engine comes up to temperature as quickly as possible, not only to meet emissions but also to increase combustion efficiency. Larger radiators on cars and trucks cannot do that as well and usually indicate a higher generation of BTU loss. That is a design negative, not a positive,

    As far as frame strength goes, the previous Ford and Dodge half-ton truck platforms were both good. The Dodge had a higher torsional bending limit and the F-series a higher lateral bending limit. Older GMs were pretty weak in both areas, but newer versions of all three are extremely stiffer than before.

    In the absence of giving us the measured test results the claim that the Ford frame is superior is lacking evidence in the numbers that seem to be the theme of your "Ford is superior" claim.

    I think you'll find that the Chevy, Dodge, and Ford are very close. A difference of 50 pounds in torsional or lateral bending resistance is totally insignificant, nor can it yield any practical advantage.

    By the way, the Dodge received frame revision from '05 to '06 and is reportedly the most rigid truck platform in the light duty pick up market.

    As a former manager of a large national fleet of vehicles...including LD trucks..I think Ford made a pretty good truck -- up until the '05 model. Since introduction the "new" F-series as been a maintenance and repair disappointment, especially in light of the fact that previous years were actually pretty good

  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    that in this months Motor Trend issue, with the 2006 Truck of the Year awards, the Dodge Ram lost to the Ridgeline because of the "value" quotent. They applauded it for having best-in-class balance of ride and handling without being cantankerous. They loved the power output of the HEMI and the overall construction of the truck, writing: " the handling is quite good (dare I say fun?) in the tight road course". "The ride, even with the huge 20" wheels and low-profile Goodyears was compliant. making the reworked cabin- now with more insulation, thicker glass, triple door seals, and a new IP with an available nav system- and even quieter and enjoyable space to occupy." BUT hears the gotcha: "For a full-size, it doesn't get much better that this"Flipped over a couple of pages, and low and behold there's the Lincoln Mark LT( a direct copy of the F-150 with a chrome Lincoln grille). Here's just a snippet of their quibbles:

    " Among this field of five-, six- and eight-cylinder competitors, the Mark LT had the slowest 0-60 times of the bunch, although midrange power and passing abilities are fine. It's tuned for smooth highway driving. Unfortunately, the Mark LT hasd trouble keeping composed, evidencing axle-hop and front-end wonder on rougher pavement and rutted dirt-road streches."

    So, I'd be careful to say that the general truck buyer thinks Ford is superior to every other truck.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    A couple of things...First, if you read the article again, I believe MT says the Ram Megacab did not win TOTY pretty much only due to the fact that they cost over 50 grand. I'll need to read it again to be sure. Second, MT's "Of the Year" awards are not real awards...they are marketing campaigns. They are bought so manufacturers can use the MT logo in their ad campaings for their new vehicles. To be eligible for a "Of the Year" award the vehicles must be either all new or completely redesigned. Therefore, there is no repeat winner possibility. Think about it, how can a vehicle be so great that it is the Car or Truck of the Year and then is never heard from again--at least until it is all redesigned? The F-150 won in 2004, the Tacoma won last year and the RL won this year--but it will not be able to repeat next year. Third, I believe the Lincoln was not in the running because it is nothing more than a rebadged F-150 going against all new designs. I would not vote for it either, and I drive a 2005 F-150. Finally, do not let the results of this "test" influence the way MT feels about the F-150. First of all, last fall in the MT New Car Buyer's Guide for 2006, MT called the F-150 the "class of the full size truck segment." Also, in the same issue of MT that you reference (the TOTY issue) in the back--around page 140 or so--they do a wrap up of their long term test of the 2004 F-150 and they heap praises upon the F-150 hand over fist. Read it before thinking MT looks down on the F-150.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    GM takes the TOTY next year. What was the compititon against the RL. The Lincoln LT,and??? If to be nominated for TOTY the truck has to be new or substansually redesighned. Thats well, about it aint it. The RL takes it this year, on to the real trucks next year. GM.

    MT mite look down on the F-150, but not that bed :P :P
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    stands that the Ram is the better truck, according to these guys. The LT can compete because the MT guys says that it can also be a new nameplate, hence Mark LT.

    I read that they "liked" the F-150. I wouldn't call a truck that the gearshift has to be taped in order to change gears "durable". This is not praise. A few months back, the praised the long-term 2500 Ram, calling it the best workhorse in the class. So to say the least, the Ford is not superior or best at everything. You might want to re-read Dusty's posting of the Ram v. Ford.

    P.S. I was not talking about the MegaCab Ram, just the 1500. At last check tho, a fully equipped F-350 runs near 60K when laden with POWERJOKE. So the FACTS are still valid.
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    What powerplant was it in that Ram 2500? Was it the Hemi or the Cummins? I'll be willing to bet that the 2500 HD equipped with the Duramax desiel and Allison T1000 tranny can out pull or out power any other deseil out there. MT mite have mixed in other tests such as acceleration, off roading and of the sort when they called the Ram the work horse of the class. Chevys strong points are power and fuel economy. The Ram may give it a run elsewere though.

    POWERJOKE( thats good ) :)
  • schmedlyschmedly Member Posts: 44
    The videos are produced by Ford with people that Ford is paying. The Ford is a fine product, but so are the rest. Most of the items that are brought up in the video are made to appear that Ford has the advantage, but in reality.... Example: Bed Bolts. The bolts that are used by Ford are the same exact diameter as those used by Dodge. Ford's bolts, being longer, actually makes them weaker and more suscetable to stretching or failure. As far as the frame goes, my '98 1500 as been used as a delivery truck carrying loads that exceed the "rated capacity" by well over 1,000#. No frame damage or axel damage in 120K. Ford is pushing the frame thing because they were known for frame flexing for quite a while. Mimd you, I didn't say that they bent, but by flexing, they had more squeeks and rattles. My knowledge of the video is a little better than most as I was a trained Ford salesman.

    Whats important is not to find a "best truck", but a best truck for you and your needs.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Thanks for the engineering observations in your original post and the info here on the MT TOY. As I recall, MT have had some real turkeys over the year "win" (?) this honor. I think that the Iszuzu Trooper, a Dodge Raider, and other worthies have won it over the year. As you point out it is nothing but eyewash.

    With regard to Dodge vs. Chevy half tons, I think we can all agree that the Dodge has a better frame, less car like suspension, lower resale, and fewer options. Do you want to work or play?

    With regard to Dodge vs. Ford, I am impressed by the items you list in your original post, but have a couple of thoughts. Clearly, the F150 interior is a full generation ahead of Dodge. Proof? Lets make a supposed unfair comparison. Rather than compare the SLT vs XLT , compare the supposedly more upscale Dodge Laramie with the very common XLT. The Ford's center stack, ergonomics, etc. are far preferable. Both manufacturer's though force you to pay about 3K for a optional package (e.g., the SLT or XLT package) if you want power windows and locks. You can't get PWDLs separately as an option. I don't know about you, but I can't easily reach over to the passenger door and wind down the window if I want directions. In 2006, power door locks are almost a required personal safety feature. I resent that they are not offered as a stand alone option. I happen to like the Ford exterior styling better because I don't identify with class 8 truck drivers and don't need to imagine that I am driving a Peterbilt. I think that the Ford's deep bed is a good thing if you are going to haul anything.

    But what is a deal killer for me is Ford's persistent problem on the F150 with drive line vibrations. They apparently can't be cured. Gee, who wants to spend 30K or so on a new pickup with a gorgeous interior, great bed, and then have a vibration problem? While the F250 isn't plagued by this, I don't need nor want a 3/4 ton truck.

    Net/Net: sign me up for a Dodge 1500 in shadow grey.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The specs:

    The Cummins has 325hp and 610lb-ft of torque. The Duramax has 300hp and 620lb-ft of torque. They are virtually about the same, power wise. However, the Cummins has a long track record for durability and longevity, whereas the Duramax has had aplenty of problems, most notable turbine failure, which destroy's the engine. But they both are whole-heartedly more durable and powerful than the 525lb-ft POWERJOKE.

    BTW, the Dodge that MT was referring to had a HEMI, and that's why it was named "workhorse of the class" because it's more powerful than both of the 8.1L big-block Chevy and the 6.8L V-10 Ford.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Clearly you know your specs, but fill us in. The hemi has more hp and torque than both an 8.1 or a V10? Wow.

    Incidentally, I have the idea that you could pick up a used Ford F250 with the V10 real cheap because of the perceived gas mileage and that it isn't a diesel. This might be a steal: decent power without the hassles and expense of a diesel. (To me it makes absolutly no sense to pop an extra 5K for something with a mixed reliability and maintenance track record and maybe no payback. If you want to drive a diesel, call Roadway.)
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The HEMI has more horsepower than the GM 8.1 and the 6.8L Ford V-10, but they are both more torquey than the HEMI, the big-block by 70lb-ft. But the HEMI shines on the top-end, whereas the torque monsters have enough low-end grunt to remove tree stumps(so does the HEMI, but with a little more effort.)

    So to some it up, the 8.1L and Ford 6.8L would be ideal for heavy towing because of their low-end torque, which moves the weight more easily. But for a light duty bound mover, the HEMI would be the best choice as you'd save a ton on your gas bill and it is more at home just cruising whereas the others are built to behave better laden with weight.

    As far as diesels go, the Big Three have made available some of the most modern and everyday usable diesels around. Thanks to something called common-rail fuel delivery, there is no more of that clank-clank-clank-clank that was associated with diesels of yester-year. I praise Cummins, Duramax(Isuzu), and Powerstroke(International) for the quietness(for a diesel). And with this latest technology infused within the engines comes longer service intervals and much improved longevity. On my previous '98 2500 CTD 4X4, I got 312,000 miles before the first major overhaul, way pass the manufacturer's estimate. And even then it wasn't anything wrong with motor, it was that the turbo finally pooped out after millions of rotations. At idle on my new MegaCab, before I put the Banks exhaust upgrade on it among other goodies, the truck was just a little more audible than a standard gasoline motor. And with the upcoming Tier 2 emissions regulations of '08, these engines are sure to be as clean and quiet as gas motors.
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    The Hemi may have more power in specs, but both the Ford V10 and the big block Chevy have more displacement. Take the Hemi to the rolling hills of the peidmont, compare the power of the smaller displacement engine with the power of the bigger displacement engine and se how it compares. The Hemi is a solid engine, plenty of power, but plenty of appatite. When you are trailering the smaller engine has to strain harder to get equal power to the bigger engine, thereby revving higher and burning more fuel, so I dont think I totally agree with the work horse of the class Heavy Duty wise. The Hemi may be for the 1/2 ton segment but when compared to the bigger engines Displacement is what counts.
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    Try towing 6000lbs back across the state with a Cummins or an Powerjoke 286 miles at 55mph averaging 16.3mpg. Our Chevy 2500 HD equpped with the Duramax and Allison T1000 pulled a uhaul trailer and my unroadworthy 79 Chevy of my granddads back to our place and had power to spare and deseil in the tank. There may be something better out there but that there is a high standard to reach.

    Duramax best deseil there is. ;)
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Duramax best deseil (sic) there is??

    OK, how many Duramax engines are used in severe duty industrial or marine applications? Go to any job site today and half the construction equipment is running B Series Cummins. Go to ME and 25% of the lobster boats are running B Series. None of the above use Duramax. None.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    I did state that the HEMI is not the choice in 3/4 ton trucks for heavy towing. Medium towing at best. HOWEVER, when your talking diesels, CUMMINS all the way hands down. With the latest '06 frame revisions, the 3500 CTD 4X4 has the best tow rating in it's class, 18,500 pounds. Compared to Duramax 15,700(despite 625lb-ft torque) and the Powerjoke 16,500. The frame is key to towing. Hp and torque are good, but with a flexible frame and bed, it's not usable.

    Hate to break it to you, but the Isuzu-built Duramax is not the best out there. Durability, longevity, and power are the main reasons people buy diesels. The Duramax has failed miserably on all counts, especially durability. Turbine failure at 40,000 miles is not only good for a gas motor, but down right horrific for a TD.
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