Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra vs Dodge Ram

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Comments

  • tex10tex10 Member Posts: 27
    Howdy im from Texas im gluing to tell why im dodge man. a long time go when I was 3 my grandfather told me storeis about my heoro Richard Petty. just king of NASCAR love that 65 Plymouth. Don’t lie bow tie paper boy.he had the best paint job. him that and hemi used to run circles around you bow tie and brown oval guys. know im 17 i have a dodge ram 1500 4 door 4.7 magnum.i can burn ruber better thin 350 small block.my truck is stock, but im going to see if i can fit a 360. get some horse power. The mopar way.
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    Thanks for the discussion. I own a 99 Ford 250 HD diesel and the engine is just great.. HOWEVER, the shop has now worked on the tranny twice... lots of $$$$ later... So I am looking and trying to decide between the Dodge (yuck) and a Chebby with the diesel duramax. I will be buying a diesel and 3/4 ton trucks to pull my 12000lb camper. What I hear so far is very confusing. I am sure both of these will do the job and I will be happy but there must be some point or points that will separate the two makes for me. Fuel mileage would be a very important issue that would influence me one way or another. My friend just bought a Dodge after owning a Duramax that he had problems with but the mileage is just terrible. Last weekend he got about 11.5 mpg coming to my house pulling a flatbed trailer with a medium sized tractor on it. 7-8000lbs maybe. I suspect my old Ford 250 would have gotten 15 or so.

    My personl ownership of Chrysler products was favorable even though Consumer Report said it was horrible. I currently own two GM products a Buick Park Ave and a 1500 series Chevy... both are great.. The Ford HD drives and handles great but now with 2 transmission problems behind me I am just very nervous about pulling the camper again. My problem with Dodges is probably very personal..my former employer purchased the cheapest junk that Chrysler Corp. could make... from Jeeps to Dodge / Plymouth vehicles... I know this is not representive of what was available from a dealer but that's my experience anyway. What junk! I am sure this is poisoning my rational decision making process.

    Anyway I appreciate the more honest and informational posts while the ones with just opinions and such are not needed. I will try to keep my discussions to facts as best I can and not add in my personal feelings on such things as the Dodges.

    So anyone that has real information that will help me decided between the two would be appreciated.

    Since at this time neither mfg's are making any real deals on financing etc I will probably just watch this site until late summer/fall and pick up a new one... Getting a chevy with the new body style makes some sense. Heck my 90 model chevvy looks about like the new ones. I guess owning one for 17 years might be long enough..
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    I was the national fleet manager for a large business machine company in Rochester, New York for a number of years. During that time we transitioned from GM light-duty pickups to Fords and Dodges because of high cost of ownership issues.

    Perhaps the latest generation of GM pickups will change my mind. We have recently made a small buy of 2006 Chevy 1500 class PUs. Our previous F150s were very good, but the new versions are not so good.

    In the meantime the RAM 1500 and 2500s that we own (2002-2005s) have proved to be exceptionally solid and extremely reliable. These are all gas models, but in my experience the Cummins engine is in a league of it's own.

    Most people I talk to or know are getting much better than 11.5 MPG with their Cummins equiped RAMs. I would survey some more Cummins owners before rushing to the conclusion that 11.5 is normal for that engine. Also, judging fuel consumption on a new motor is usually misleading. The Cummins is an exceptionally tight diesel motor. It may need 10,000 miles before you start to see "normal" numbers.

    For '06 the Cummins equiped RAM comes with a new very heavy 4-speed 48RE fully adaptive automatic transmission. If you wait another year the RAM will have a new 6-speed heavy automatic built off of the extremely reliable 545RFE transmission.

    Good luck and best regards,
    Dusty
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    If you have the listing for the site you reference I would appreciate if you would post it as I am unfamiliar with it.

    c57
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    What my Ohio friend told me about the 06 Dodge mileage was that when it was new he got 14.5 with the diesel driving to Florida towing nothing. Then 2 months later he drove down to NC pulling a trailer with a tractor on it.. then he got 11.5 mpg.. Those are awful numbers when diesel is $3 a gallon. Maybe he will do better when the engine has 10K on it or better.
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    Thanks so much for the timely response. I will go read this now.

    c57
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    I have read it and printed most off. If that doesn't help a person make up their mind nothing will.

    Now the question is does a person wait for the 07's to come out and see what Chevy has waiting in the wings or buy an OLD 06 style.. ??

    Might have to see what INCENTIVES will come out in the next few months.

    Then its bye bye Ford.

    They make it sound like their 7.2% grade in California was really a big test.. I know there are two grades in Eastern TN in the 7%+ range and lots in WNC... I only ran across one like that driving to Alaska last summer and it was coming out of Skagway.. Seems like lots of it was 7% running up to 11% but I might have forgotten.it was also really long... like 20 miles or so pulling UPGRADE... I have CRS now so the figures are only my gueses....estimates.... Both the Dodges and Chevy's ran around me on those grades with my 99 Ford diesel and I was only towing 9000lbs or so. It doesn't seem like the new Chevy would have a problem with the grades and my new 12000 5th wheel. I know those I talked to last summer really liked their Chevrolets but then so did the Dodge owners..

    This article really helped me!! Thanks again.
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    I would agree. I wonder how you find out when the HD is going to come out... Surely by Sept or so.??
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    My two cents: Performance aside in my experience the Cummins have been more reliable than the diesel engines from Ford or GM. The highly touted Allison transmissions have a reputation for noisy operation and irratic shifts after collecting some miles. On GMs, there's a problem with the rest of the truck. Past GMs have been the most unreliable. Our current '06s, although better than GMs of the past, have still collected a fair amount of downtime for various component quality and assembly issues. GMs have been the first to go rust. That and piston slap have resulted in significant loss for us at resale time.

    If it wasn't for the inordinate amount of problems were having with the F150 series right now, the GM versions would be the worst. And at the moment the RAM series is our best performer for reliability. Only random electrical problems keep these vehicles from being as good as a Tundra. Next year the Cummins equiped RAM gets a six-speed automatic and a horsepower and torque boost. I haven't heard anything about Ford introducing six-speed auto, but it wouldn't surprize me that one's in the works.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • curious_gearscurious_gears Member Posts: 60
    Amd another reason why a 6 cylnder diesal will out pull an 8.1L duramax is because it is a 6. All 6 cylander engines are able to rev much higher than an 8 cylander. So rather then the duramax towing at low end RPM'S the cummins is able to tow at low revves AND at very high revolutions, making it far more torquey
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    That's not correct.

    The Cummins revs much lower than the Duramax, Powerstroke, or any of the gasoline V8s... its horsepower peak is just 2900 rpm. The torque comes from the piston stroke, which is much longer in the Cummins 6-cylinder.

    The Duramax is the 6.6 liter, by the way - the 8.1L is the gasoline engine.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • blkhemiblkhemi Member Posts: 1,717
    The Cummins does not rev higher than any of it's competitor's engines. This is not why diesels were designed. Low-end torque and power are the key factors in how diesel engines operate and are able to pull such heavy loads. Powerstroke, Cummins, and Duramax are only within hundreds of pounds of what they can pull. Some have higher payload capacities(Chevy,Ford), others work best at towing (Dodge),due to the incredible powertrains and unsurpassed ride control.

    As stated before, if automatic trans is a must and shift quality is a top priority, then the Ford or Chevy may be a better option than the Dodge, with it only having 4 ratios in it's tranny, but it is still remarkably stout and dependable. But for rowing your own, Dodge's 6-speed is about as good as it gets. And with a new 6.7L Cummins with a reported 700lbs-ft of torque and close to 400-hp mated to a new 6-speed auto coming for '07/'08, it's going to be a different ball game, with all of the manufacturers upgrading their powertrains...
  • awsomedieselawsomediesel Member Posts: 3
    Nothing could be further from the truth. I just bought an 06 ram 2500 trx off road. It averaged 15.4 mpg for the first 1000 to 1500 miles, now it is up to 17mpg (didn't put a tonneu cover on it yet). Dealers will tell you anywhere from 18 to 21 average but asking around it seems to get no more that 19 tops (which isn't bad for a truck of that size) I drive about 150 mls a day 50% of the time with plenty of weight on the box (half its capacity and more)
    Test drove chevy and ford and I have no regrets whatsoever, VERY QUIET, unlike ford 6.0 :):):)
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    To build on your comment regarding upgraded drivetrains, the 2007 RAMs will be getting new six-speed automatic transmissions.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • au1994au1994 GAMember Posts: 2,159
    My .02. Just got an 06 regular cab Ram and the comfort of the seats is better than the 04 4 Runner I traded in on it. Ride is only slightly worse over uneven pavement because of the lighter back-end. Could not be happier with the truck

    FWIW...I did not even consider the Chevy. Looks OK, but rode in one less than a year old and it squeeked and rattled like a 20 yr old farm truck. Plus it was not as comfortable as the Ram. F-150 looks good, but the Ram was a better deal. Not just because of the incentives either.

    2008 Toyota Land Cruiser White over Tan
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    I'm a little surprised that you think the seat comfort is better in the RAM than the FourRunner. I've always found the RAM seats to be very comfortable. But in all honesty I think the F150 and Chevy/GMC seats are okay as well. Maybe I have that universal body they use to design seats!

    My son home from Iraq just picked me up this morning for breakfast in his buddy's 2005 Chevy 1500. It only had 16,000 miles on it and no rattles. But most GMs seemed to squeak, buzz, and rattle a lot as they get years and miles.

    I hear from owners of of competive models all the time about how bad the gas mileage is in RAMs and how much better it is in GMs, especially. Well, this Chevy does no better than 16 on the highway according to it's owner, and 13-14 around town. My son has had use of this truck for two weeks and he said the best it's turned in was 16.7, and that's easy driving. Most guys driving Hemi RAMs do that or a little better.

    Bests,
    Dusty
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    It really all depends on how you drive them ... my new Chevy diesel got 18.8 in the mtns of NC last week... 250 miles or so... but I babied her. I didn't go over 65mph..

    I pulled the bass boat down to Jocassee last saturday another 200 mil trip... got only 13.1... hope that improves when its warn in a bit
  • au1994au1994 GAMember Posts: 2,159
    Seat comfort seems to be as subjective as styling. You are correct in that not only body size, but body proportion has a lot to do with it. I know people that are 6'6" and are comfortable in their small sedans, but my dad is 6'2" and claimed he could not fit in the 4Runner.

    2008 Toyota Land Cruiser White over Tan
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • guy7guy7 Member Posts: 9
    Before making my decision of which brand truck to buy, I did research on the brands. I owned a 86 6.2 diesel. Everybody told my how terrible 6.2 was. My experience was very positive. Had a 6.5 lots of problems . Bought a 5.9 CTD still have it after 14 hard years.Has rattles,rust and some electrical concerns, but still starts even in frigid temperatures. So I purchased a new 06 Ram CTD. All the manufacturers have a decent product,I beleive it is brand loyalty that tends to sway our decision. I was a ford Man, But have found positive experiences with both G.M and Dodge.Had My ford in the shop so many times thatI decided to schedule regular appointments with the service manager. My friends are still making hear it. Why would you buy another dodge? Quite simply, I was satisfied with the first one. The Cummins engine is a proven performer. I hope my new truck does as well or better than the first. As an aside I had a ride in an 06 duramax, that truck really pulls hard. But when I found out that Isuzu only designed the engine and did not actually build the newer motors, I lost a little faith. So all the stats and consumer reports wont change the minds of some people. I hope I made the right decision... Time will tell...
  • awsomedieselawsomediesel Member Posts: 3
    Congrats on your new truck. I think the perfect truck is the one you feel right about; and it is most definitely a personal opinion. I for one found my perfect truck!!!, an '06 2500 TRX4 ram CTD. It is my first Dodge and I got to tell you, 26K miles after I'm still trying to find something wrong... and I just can't. I love my truck. paid 34K for it and it is worth every penny. I installed the Jake brake on it @ about 15K miles.
    There is absolutely no question about the Cummins engine just being great; 0 recalls so far. I have had Fords and GM and have nothing bad to say about the ones I owned. As far as cranking the engine, I have never had any problems whatsoever, even in the coldest days.
    Mine is a crew cab, not the megacab. I personally think the rear cab should have been a little bigger, but is no biggy.
    You will like this truck as much or even more than your old CTD, I guarantee it!
    Good luck and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    I'd ask, "Why do you guys still persist in buying a Chevy or a Ford?"

    It's a funny thing how many times I listen to a Ford or Chevy guy mention problems they've had with their truck, yet one time you say that your Dodge had to see the dealer for a repair and suddenly a Dodge is junk.

    The truth be known the Dodge trucks of recent years have been the most reliable.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    The truth be known the Dodge trucks of recent years have been the most reliable.

    Dusty, you know that isn't quite true. I don't hardly know anyone who owns a automatic transmission dodge who hasn't replaced it.

    Rocky
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    I tried to post this yesterday but my computer acted up and I failed. I bought a chevy because of their 0 down... 72 month of 0% interest back in July 06.. I had it narrowed down to the Dodge and Chevy... both good... both comparable as best I could tell. I think the Chebby gets better fuel mileage... a friend bought a Dodge in Feb 06 and his stick shift gets horrible fuel mileage... On trips he has never topped 13 or 14 mpg... I got 20.2... or there abouts..

    I had a Ford 250 diesel 1999 vintage... good engine... horrible tranny... wish I had gotten the stick shift...

    Oh well my Duramax seems more than adequate..
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    MY FIL averages about 12 mpg hwy going 75 mpg. and he has a 1-ton stick :surprise: I'm not very impressed with Cummins efficiency but of course he does have the 4.10 gear ratio. ;)

    Rocky
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    I meant to add that now I hear that FORD has introduced ANOTHER engine to power their 250HD its just certification that the 6L was junk...

    I still can't figure why they got rid of the 7.3L... lots of folks out there with over 300K on them...
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    The 7.3 wasn't free of problems my friend. It know people that were getting 20 mpg with them and others that were getting 9 mpg. They also gulped oil and were unbearably loud. However yes they had less problems with them than the 6.0 L The 6.0 was a fast performing diesel though. hopefully this new engine will be better but I doubt it's as bullet proof as the Duramax, that some of my buddy's have that have 200,000 on them. ;)

    Rocky
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    I only had 110 k on mine when I sold it but I often recorded 20 and 21 mpg... It just had no power.. with the automatic transmission anyway..
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Well, it is true. Now to clarify, my remarks are in reference to full size light duty pickups only. That does not include the previous generation Toyota Tundra.

    The transmission comment is a monument to exaggeration. I know of quite a few 45, 46, and 47REs that are still operating without a repair or a rebuild, some after 150,000 miles. They most certainly are no worse than a 4LE60! The new 545FRE transmission has had very few problems and far less failures. With the exception of V6s, this transmission is used on all V8 RAMs.

    Dusty
  • jnealjneal Member Posts: 247
    "Dusty, you know that isn't quite true. I don't hardly know anyone who owns a automatic transmission dodge who hasn't replaced it.

    Rocky"

    I've owned Dodge trucks since 1976 and the only automatic tranny I have had to replace was on my wife's FORD Mustang........
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    1996 Dodge Ram 3500 dually, Cummins and 47RE, traded it after 9 years with 127,000 on it... no trans problems.
    2005 Dodge Ram 3500 dually, Cummins and 48RE, will be 2 years old March 8, closing in on 40K... no trans problems.

    Maintain any automatic by the book (fluid, filter, pan gasket, band adjustment), and it will last as long as you need it. If you just let the quick-lube places suck the fluid out the dipstick tube, kiss the trans goodbye. Doesn't matter who makes the trans.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • aperjoaperjo Member Posts: 1
    Hi guys, I need some help here. I own an '06 Ram Turbo Diesel with about 24K miles on it. My first diesel, love it so far in every aspect. I do have a problem with it when it is cold, at start and for about 5 to 10 minutes, the lights dim on and off and the volt meter's needle goes down and back to normal as the lights act out weird. The dealership tells me it is a normal thing to do on a diesel engine when is cold, but it doesn't sound right to me, specially because It some times does it when I stop after a 50 mile trip or more, turn engine off for 5 minutes to go in a store or fuel up and when I re start it does it again with the engine warm.
    I was wondering if any of you have had this problem and if it is, as the dealer said "normal". My truck starts in the coldest winter day at first crank, and my average fuel economy is 18-19 mpg (crew cab 4x4 auto trans)
    Thank you!!! :)
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Well, Chrysler did have some problems with Shift Solenoids a while back, and the anti-drain back valve will clog and shut down transmission fluid flow...if the fluid has not been maintained.

    But with all of the plow jockeys and landscapers using the 1500 series when they should've had a 2500 or 3500, towing above the rated limit, with the transmission in overdrive, using Dexron-Mercon fluid instead of the correct ATF+, I think those 45 and 46REs did pretty darn well.

    Compare that to the 4LE60, 80 series that went through the sun gear failures, direct clutches breaking, reverse boost valves sticking causing high line pressure and breaking low reverse and 2nd bands, input shafts wearing prematurely, intermediate sprag failures, burned forward clutches from excess forward drum travel, I guess only a person having a love affair with GM would think that GM transmissions are better than Chryslers. (And I haven't even mentioned the GM toilet TH200.)

    And, oh, try to rebuild one (properly) without breaking a freakin' reluctor gear!!

    Bests,
    Dusty
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Even though I have little personal experience with diesels RAMs it doesn't sound right to me.

    I would be suspecting a bad electrical connection or a borderline battery.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    Well you guys are the few very lucky ones. Anyone who tows knows Dodges units aren't up for the task. My FIL will not buy a auto tranny Dodge, because they don't hold up and everyone he knows says the same thing and that's from farmers who do tow often. ;)

    Rocky
  • 02ramman02ramman Member Posts: 62
    Aperjo,

    It is normal. It is the intake heater grid cycling in the "post start". I believe there is mention to it in the owner's manual. Three people I know have and 03, 05, and an 06 CTD and they all do it here in Ak.

    Steve
  • morganvmorganv Member Posts: 49
    Hogwash. were farmers (been in the business for 27 years) and anyone that I can think of around here has not had any transmission problems with their Dodges. and that includes all kinds of towing. In fact, its because friends with Dodges have done so well towing horse trailers (like us) we went to Dodge.we had fords up until 2002 when we bought our first Ram. TWo more followed and theyve been the best trucks weve ever owned. Now my father who has never had anything but a Chevy has had more transmissions fixed than anybody i can think of. and hes a farmer too!

    Morgan
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Morgan,

    Listen, Dodge transmissions break just like those from GM or Ford or anybody else, really. I personally know two people that own (owned in one case) Titans and they both have had transmission trouble already. But that doesn't mean they'll all suffer the same fate. When you're in love with a particular brand you'll inherently find a convenient way to forget problems you've seen with your pet brand, and remember everything bad about something else. That's what causes selective memory and exaggerated statements. Because you're in love, you must believe that anything else is less than your favorite brand. With all of the problems GM has had with their machinery, the worshipers must point out all of the flaws in other brands, especially if you're going to lose $2000-4000 on resale because of piston slap.

    Prior to '98 the Dodge A500 and A518 transmissions and the 45REs had insufficient oil flow to the overdrive unit. This caused advanced oxidation of the ATF and subsequent loss of clutch friction material in extreme lower temperatures or when towing heavy loads near the max in overdrive. When operated in accordance with the operator's manual, meaning turning the overdrive off when towing in hilly country or at maximum tow rating, and regular maintenance, these transmissions would last a lifetime.

    After '98 problems with the 45 and 46REs seemed to fade significantly. The oil flow fix and some other enhancements makes these transmissions as good as the competition in the same range.

    In my experience too many of these earlier 1/2 ton Dodge transmissions required repair or rebuild because they were used above the maximum rating, or for plowing, or because they were never maintenenced. (Unless properly equiped, you're not supposed to plow with a Dodge 1/2, just like Chevy and Fords.) Still others had Dexron-Mercon used in them which will always mean certain death in a Dodge truck transmission. The 47RE in the 3/4 and 1 ton Dodges were never much of a problem. Most certainly less of a problem then I'd see with 4LE80s in 3/4 or 1 ton Chevrolets. The 47RE behind the Cummins proved to be marginal for the same reasons the 45RE could be problematic in 1/2 ton chassis Dodges.

    Now there were intermittent problems with shift solenoids for a while, and dirty ATF in a Dodge will probably choke the anti-drain back valve and restrict fluid flow sooner than in most other designs. However, in an EO4D or a Hydramatic you'll operate with dirty fluid longer but when the transmission does fail you'll be looking at a $2500 to $3500 rebuild because the pumps like to fail on Fords and other things like to wear (input shafts, forward clutches, reverse piston bore wear, etc.) on a Hydramatics.

    That was yesterday. The 48RE in the Cummins is strong and has been very reliable. The 545RFE has been exceptional. In fact so exceptional, until very recently no one other than Chrysler made a rebuild kit for this transmission! And it's been out since MY 2000. This is now the only transmission used in a V-8 RAM, V-8 Jeeps and 4.7 Dakotas.

    Best regards,
    Dusty
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    My FIL has a 05' Dodge Ram 1-ton with a 6-speed manual and likes it but wishes he got the Duramax instead. I was just using him as a example as he's been farming since he was 7 years old and is now 61 years old. Most farmer here in the Texas Panhandle do own a Big 3 truck. However most farmers in my area own GMC or Chevy Duramax 3/4-1 tons because they are very fuel efficient, use only 6 quarts of oil, are the quietest, and now are the most powerful on the market. MY FIL, is already talking about buying a 08' GMC/Chevy HD Diesel but said he will keep his Ram, because it's not worn out like some of his half tons after years of farm abuse. He says trucks are getting better and better but he really likes the new GM HD's. He in fact asked me today about the new Ford HD's and sked when the next RAM HD would be coming out. I told him the F-450 looks good on paper and has the new 6.4 diesel. He said well hopefully they have the 6.0's glitches worked out.

    I told him to buy the proven Duramax because this new truck is the highest quality HD on the market with a proven motor. I said the new Ford HD, might end up being a good truck but it's not proven. His Dodge, has had some quality issues with the interior and exterior and like he said like all dodges the engines will out last the body. He does have a point with that based on what I've seen. Dodge makes a pretty good engine but the body's aren't up to snuff
    IMHO. :(

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganMember Posts: 13,994
    With all of the problems GM has had with their machinery, the worshipers must point out all of the flaws in other brands, especially if you're going to lose $2000-4000 on resale because of piston slap.

    I've never known anyone with Piston slap. I've heard about this but never known anyone to have this problem. Well based on looking a bluebooks GM, has the highest residuals out of domestic trucks. :confuse: True Market Value makes the gap even higher.

    Ford is #2

    Dodge #3

    Rocky
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    You know, I had a feeling that you've never known anyone with a GM piston slap. Well, around here they're common enough.

    The Duramax has not been a stellar performer. As far as truck bodies go, oh please! GM's bodies are the worst. Around here you will see GMs with rust perforation in 6-7 years. My last Chevy had rust through at the end of five and had more rattles and squeaks than a B-24 with 30 missions. Rusted cab mounts, rocker panels, bottoms of front fenders, rear wheel lips rusted through. In contrast the RAM is the longest lasting full-size pick up sold in America and they typically go 9-10 years before you see perforation.

    As far as resale, if you just look at the Blue Book price at end of term, yep, you'll see a larger number for a Chevy or GMC. But they also are sold at a higher average rate. The true resale is the difference between what was paid and what the vehicle returned at the end of term. GMs don't do so well when held to this standard.

    Yeah. The GM deity lives!

    Dusty
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Then why do the GM's have the lowest "Overall Cost of Ownership"? This takes into account sales price, resale, fuel costs, maintenance and other associated costs.

    As for rust, I had my 1989 GMC for 9 years and my 2000 GMC for the past 7-1/2. NO signs of any rust yet and I live in snowy, salty Minnesota.

    Ya know what? I am not even going to get into this discussion comparing Dodges to GM's. There is NO comparison. BTW, How's Dodge doing these days?

    Dodge....Ptooey You could GIVE me one and I wouldn't drive it.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    By the way, how's GM doing nowadays? How much did they lose in 2006? How are all the American car companies doing? And if GM is so very, very good, and clever and clean and righteous, and Dodge is so very, very bad, why would GM want to buy the company? And who says GMs have the lowest cost of ownership? That's funny. In the past 25 years I see no fleet evidence of it.

    I could trade anecdotal snipets all day and it wouldn't prove a thing. But I'll tell you what, being in the fleet management business for eleven years I've learned to detect the superiority in GM flag wavers. Unfortunately, its based on self-proclaimed myths.

    Although our GM products have been sour notes for many years, maybe the new GMT900 platform will finally live up to the past 30 years of exaggerated claims by the hyper-religious GM following.

    As to advising us that you'd never drive a Dodge if given one, it proves the severity of your bias. I might drive a GM truck in the future, although now that Toyota's in the full size fray I suspect they'll dominate eventually just on quality and reliability alone.

    In the mean time I'd take a Dodge...or a Ford, or a Titan...or a Tundra. I have greater faith in them at the moment than a GM based on past history.
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    Better than Dodge (and Chrysler in general). Since when do "lesser" companies buy out "better" companies (or parts of them even)? Soon, you may not be able to choose a Ram over a Chevy/GMC, they may not exist!!!
    As for lowest cost of ownership, I just read it in a magazine article the other day. I read so many articles in mags and online, I don't recall which one, but I read it, I know it, and I don't have to prove it to you.

    My bias against Chrysler products is based on previous experience and experiences of people I know. Am I a diehard GM fan? yeah, I guess so. But I have nothing against Ford and I would buy one under the right circumstances and be a proud owner of it. Dodge on the other hand? Not a chance!!!
    My past experience with my last 2 GM's gives me NO reason to consider changing loyalties. My 89 and my 2000 both were awesome trucks that NEVER gave me ANY trouble. Not one!!! Never broke down and/or left me stranded. Never had any warranty issues. Only money I spent was routine maintenance (brakes, tires, etc). Oh, and couple of VERY minor recall items. None of them left me without a vehicle. The were taken care of "on the spot" when I brought it in.
    Until GM lets me down, they have my business and my loyalty.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    Tsk, tsk, tsk. Aren't we a little touchy. You know something else I've noticed. GM lovers love to knock the other guys metal, but can't take heat coming back.

    Well, my last two GMs were garbage. Like another GM worshipper said recently, you are among the lucky few.

    And if you think GM is really doing any better, I think you're fooling yourself.
  • chrmdomechrmdome Member Posts: 107
    Greetings:

    IMO, whatever that is worth. I've had a 2002 Chevy Tahoe for 5 years... great vehicle. Will pick up my 2007 Silverado in 3 to 4 weeks. I had a friend that bought a brand new Jeep Cherokee , the top of the line model, brought it home and the second he put it into reverse, it locked ( the transmission ) , seems that the previous years transmissions were used in the new years models, they were " leftovers " and they didn't exactly fit! Presently, Mercedes is trying to dump Chrysler. At a recent meeting, the CEO of Chrysler was forced by a journalist ,into admitting that he was making the company's balance sheet look more attractive by not counting vehicles in the factories lots that were not shipped. Well, in the final analysis , we either love the truck or hate it. With all the poblems Chrysler has had with honesty and the way they do business, I find myself hating them and through personal experience loving Chevy. As we all realize... this happens to all of us with regard to the vehicle we love...so....
    buy what you love and enjoy

    Chromedome
  • morganvmorganv Member Posts: 49
    thats good on your tahoe, my father's ownd Chevys all his life and he loves em just like some of you guys. but hes had some real lousy trucks over the years. hIs last chevy had the engine and transmision replaced in the 5 yrs he had it. and rust! dustys right about gm trucks rusting. their terrible. my fathers 98 has got no door bottoms and the back seat is falling through the floor.

    fortunat;ly we did't have any preconceived bias against dodge. our three have been super trucks. two of them have never been back to the dealer for anything. our first one had the instrument cluster replaced by Dodge. but my dad's chevy had that problem too. i guess we make decisiuons based on personal experience and the exprience of others. our neighbors have had excellent results from Dodge and so have we. we'll never go back to ford, that's for sure and based on what we see chevys no better. good luck with your truck.

    morgan
  • jreaganjreagan Member Posts: 285
    So, what are you gonna do when GM buys part/all of Dodge and eliminates the Ram?
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJMember Posts: 3,516
    However most farmers in my area own GMC or Chevy Duramax 3/4-1 tons because they are very fuel efficient, use only 6 quarts of oil,

    Duramax oil requirement is 10 quarts, not 6.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    I am surprised up in these posts about the rust through with GM products... In addition to my 06 Duramax I also have a 1991 Chev 1500 series with 4x4 ... I have had that to the Outer Banks of NC at least 4 times and drive in the snows of WNC..WE DRIVE ON THE BEACH.... Not a bit of rust.. 168K miles... Unfortunately its only a 4.3L.. way underpowered.

    Wierd... rust?
  • morganvmorganv Member Posts: 49
    well if that happens wel'l keep the RAms for as long as we can, then buy a toyota.

    morgan
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