You might consider the 07 LS460. It looks an awfully lot like the MKS from the front three-quarter profile, and it is a big leap from the LS430 it replaces. That 4.6 engine is a wonderful piece. And the car can parallel park itself.
TopSpeed.com, eh? Their "review" is pretty much a restating of Lincoln PR materials. There are a couple of items in there I'd like to point out.
First, the "review" touts the new 'adaptive front headlights' as manna fom heaven. The headline reads "New Lincoln Lightning System ..." 'Lightning'? The word is used many times. Well, if Lincoln does have a lightning system, it is sorta from heaven. (I HATE stoopid mistakes like this.) I also learned, from lincon.com, that these wunderbar adaptive headlights are NOT standard equipment. Optional at extra cost. Seems they should be included. I just checked and they're optional on the Lexus ES too (tho std on the LS).
The other item is the description of the 265 hp engine as having 'variable intake cam timing'. I thought the base 3.5 had no hi-tech stuff like vct etc?
There is only one version of the 3.5L engine right now and it does have VCT on the intake side just like the Lincoln LS 3.0L Duratec. Future high tech options for the 3.5L include Direct Injection and Twin Turbos which is targeted for the MKS. They could use a NA Direct Injection version and there are rumors of a compact V8 which I'm guessing is a 3.5L V6 with 2 more pistons.
Overall I came away pretty impressed and would consider the vehicle for my next car.
The interior was roomy to the point where I didn't have to have the seat all the way back to be comfortable behind the wheel. Even with the drivers seat all the way back I had enough room in the back to sit my 6 foot 3+ frame. All the seats were comfortable (with the back seats made even more so by their ability to recline. The front seat was comfortable all the way through the test drive.
The cargo area was adequate for the car, but I really loved the automated seats (the back seats folded down at a push of a button.
The dashboard was nice but could have a slightly better look to it. Everything seemed to be positioned pretty well and I loved having just about all the most used controls on the steering wheel.
The car drove great, handled well and responsive and the car stopped like a dream. It accelerated from a stop and from 30 MPH very well. The only thing I didn't really like was the ride. While nice and smooth I really expected a little more as we still felt many of the bumps on the road.
Overall I really liked the car and I would seriously consider it when the time comes to replace certain cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Village of Naperville, IL had their end of summer wingding. Among all the venders and booths Lincoln had something set up where they had the 2007 MKX, MKZ, Navigator and the Mark LT. They were allowing test drives of the vehicles in exchange of us answering a short survey and a $50 gift certificate for a nice restaurant. I couldn't pass that up.
Basically it was a Lincoln sponsored event.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Damn, I haven't even seen what one will look like yet, let along get to touch one! I'm betting they're not like the original Aviator concept (which, should still be the name, BTW - not sure I'll ever forgive Ford for ditching the heritage names).
Was poking aaround Edmunds today, looking at crossovers and the MK X in particular. Once again, I came up negative on the Lincoln entry into this crowded field. Though the X is 3 or 4 $K cheaper than rivals like the MDX and RX350, they are much classier looking vehicles inside and out with proven track records. And the Edge, which has a much better looking front end treatment (IMHO) is like $8K cheaper than the X. But the vehicle that strikes me as the one to get in this segment is the Mazda. It's much sportier looking than the X or Edge and it actually offers a Select-Shift transmission rather than the BLUE-HAIR D-L shifter in the Edge and X. Not only that but the CX-9 is $3K cheaper than the X and it is larger and includes a 3rd seat. Test drives say it rides and handles well. It also has a much better looking interior than the X or the Edge.
Why is Ford making the Mazda a better option than the Ford or Lincoln clones? Strange. And once again, why would anyone buy a Mazda with a Lincoln badge when they could get a better looking, sportier, bigger Mazda with a Mazda badge and the SAME engine as the Lincoln for less money?
I agree with you, George - the Mazda looks like the one to get. And the prop rod thing just drives me crazy!!! When I lift hoods of Hondas and Toyotas and they stay up - it just galls me to use a cheap prop rod on a Lincoln.....
So today my new Motor Trend shows up and it's got this year's SUV OTY tests in it. The Mercedes wins, but that's not the point here.
They PANNED the Ford Edge and the MK X. It looks like Ford has another pair of losers on it's hands. Pretty much the worst of the lot. Comments like "The new 3.5 litre is thrashy...", " The 6speed auto has to hunt for the right gear and YOU CAN'T DO IT YOURSELF AS THE SHIFTER HAS ONLY 2 FORWARD POSITIONS, D AND L ..."; the roll stability control CAN NOT BE TURNED OFF and is overly intrusive in turns; brake feel disappointing; stopping distance one of the worst; and here's a good one: "a Lincoln should represent more than just an option package above Ford." (or Mazda for that matter.)
Too bad. Looks like the diverse group of designers, engineers and marketers at Ford just can't make a competitive vehicle anymore. MT said the Edge and X were the most anticipated in the test and the most disappointing. "The execution wasn't what we'd hoped." Same goes for me, boys. What a waste.
At least there are some good SUVs out there t choose from, all ranking far above these twins. And that includes the Mazda version of these twins, the CX-7 and the Hyundai Santa Fe even the Suzuki in every area except safety.
How much money and 'talent' was spent to produce these vehicles which are outclassed by everything from every other automaker? These asre looking like 2 more nails in the coffin. Only good news I see is they didn't make a Mercury version too.
Wish I could be. Where is the talent at Ford anymore? What the heck are they thinking? Bland, unexciting, underperforming, me too clones of loser vehicles are not part of the "Way forward" in my book. Of the last several new car releases by Ford, only the Fusion/Milan/MKZephyr are close to a hit, and they really fall short as well in comparos. Here in Cal, I see more new Camrys in one day that I've seen Fus+Mil+Z in a year. And some of those have had the dreaded bar code on the rear window. Ah well, maybe if they force a few more white faces out the door things will get better.
BTW, the thought just occurred - where is ANT? Haven't heard from him in months. Either he can't take the heat trying to defend the indefensible anymore, or he took Ford up on their buyout offer.
Excuse me, but it isn't the lack of "white faces" that is the problem. The company is still run by suits with white faces. If they'd let the designers and engineers loose to do their jobs (whether they be white, black, pink, purple, or lime green), then we'd be seeing some of the more interestiong concepts becoming reality.
Instead, we have suits calling the shots in formulating brilliant way forward into hell plan. Their money saving crap ideas like the D-L shifter, Mercury focusing on interior trim, hiding new engineering under old bodies with a slight facelift, the prop rod, no V8 for Lincoln (after all, their brilliant sleuthing shows that most people buy V6s), carrying on ancient models, advertising cars they do not have to sell, promoting new models 2 or 3 years before job one, trying to follow rather than lead...should I go on? (no)
The point is that the overpaid braindead suits who hold the purse strings are suffering from groupthink, a total lack of courage and no understanding at all that real change goes beyond public relations rhetoric and slicing parts of the company off at fire sale prices.
Well, excuse me but Jacques Nasser thought the white faces were a problem, so he set up a system to get rid of as many as he could. Ford now is what was left after that racist purge. Now they've set up buyouts and you tell me - who takes a buyout - the intelligent, hard-working person who can walk into another job easily, or the [non-permissible content removed] who's barely holding on and probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place? So who will Ford have as their workforce in the Way Forward? And, what Ford product is marketed towards white (male) faces? They want women to buy Mercury, gays to buy Jaguar and blacks to buy Lincoln. I guess by default I should buy a Ford? Except most of their 'bold moves' ads make the guy look like a [non-permissible content removed]. Like the one that REALLY offends me when the woman (of an apparently divorced couple) driving the invisible Freestyle actually allows the man to see his children and he fawningly thanks her. What a bold move. What stupid marketing.
Yes, they did. However, they drove it back to back against the competition, using instruments and several drivers comparing notes. I'm sure the MKX drives well, expecially compared with vehicles of a few years ago. But the competition is always advancing, so even good cars become less by comparison.
As for your other arguments, that is one of Ford's problems...if people don't need it or likely won't use it, why spend the $$ on it? But this is not a rational business or cars would be perceived as appliances only.
Well, MT drove the Edge AND the MKX and they drove them alongside 20 other 'new' SUVs. You get a good feel for what's working and what isn't with that large of a sample size.
Also, MT and the car mags tend to 'push' the performance of cars and therefore see how they handle and function in other than "blue-hair" type driving. I would presume you were, lets say, 'timid' in your driving of this vehicle? So you probably would not experience some of the driving problems they described. Auto-trannies tend to hunt uphills or during 'spirited' driving. The RSC they said applied brakes around curves far too soon and prevented them from really putting the vehicles thru their paces. Just the fact that Ford saved $2.00 on a SWITCH to turn the thing OFF and prevent the driver from controlling their own vehicle shows the mindset here.
They MEASURED the braking response compared to 20 other vsimilar vehicles and found these were just about the worst. Did you?
Finally, if you think all a driver ever needs is D and L, that Advancetrak should never be turned off, that spirited driving is for Formula 1, then you are the target market for this vehicle, which they estimated to cost $46,500 as tested.
Me? As an owner of 2 Lincolns, I wouldn't give them 50cents for this car. You can almost get 2 Hyundais for this price and either of them are better vehicles, according to MT.
I would presume you were, lets say, 'timid' in your driving of this vehicle?
You presume falsely.
Auto-trannies tend to hunt uphills or during 'spirited' driving.
And this one did no hunting while I was 'spirited' driving. No more than any other car has.
They MEASURED the braking response compared to 20 other vsimilar vehicles and found these were just about the worst. Did you?
I have driven many cars lately and while the MKX didn't have stellar numbers in braking distance (it wasn't a long braking distance either) the braking was felt smoother than the Lexus or the MB we recently test drove.
Finally, if you think all a driver ever needs is D and L,
lets be realistic, how many drivers of automatics put the lever past the 'D'? the answer is few.
that spirited driving is for Formula 1,
No I don't think spirited driving is formula 1, but I don't expect a SUV to handle like a sports car either. I try to be realistic. Sure its not going to handle curves like my wifes daily drive does but then its not supposed to its not a sedan.
Again I ask did they drive the same car I did?
I drove the car and the competition (did you?) and I disagree with their appraisal.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"This could have been a crossover with power and attitude; instead it's a highway cruiser and a near miss."
3 words in there describe just about every Ford vehicle released in the last 5 or more years: 'could have been'. These twins remind me a lot of the Freestar/Monterey minivans. Outdated and outclassed when they were released. Those minivans are now dead and, whoa, I just realized Ford says it figures those buyers will want crossovers instead. Maybe that explains it - they AIMED low to meet the expectations of their former minivan buyers. If you're used to driving a minivan, then D *is* all u need!
One more thing - when Ford recently announced it was throwing in the towel on minivans, the Ford guy says "we're tired of trying to be an Odyssey wanna-be"
I think soon we can replace Odyssey with "MDX" or "Accord" or "Civic" or "RDX" or "Camry" or "LS" or pick one. WITH THAT ATTITUDE, admitting they can't make something to compete with the Honda (or Dodge for that matter) minivans, who would buy a car from these people?
Do yourselves a favor before buying one of these - try the Lexus and Acuras first. Then try the Hyundai and Mazda. And see if u still wanna pay $45000 for a Mazda with a Lincoln badge and an AMC Spirit grille.
**No I don't think spirited driving is formula 1, but I don't expect a SUV to handle like a sports car either. I try to be realistic. Sure its not going to handle curves like my wifes daily drive does but then its not supposed to its not a sedan.**
For gawds sake man, neither did they. they were comparing against other SUVs not sedans. And they still came out near dead last. Get in the game will ya.
**lets be realistic, how many drivers of automatics put the lever past the 'D'? the answer is few**
The answer is "some". ANd NONE of those will buy any of these Fords that are being built with these pathetic D-L shifters. NOBODY else in the market is making a shifter like this, NOT EVEN THE MAZDAs THESE CARS ARE BASED ON. It's another pathetic money-saving scheme by Ford, who now has a better idea how YOU should drive their cars. In the future, perhaps they'll put governors on the accelerator pedal, after all how many drivers ever try to do 0-60 in under 8 seconds? BTW, if u try to do that in these cars, you'll probably be disappointed as 7.9 was the bes MT could do on their TEST TRACK, not the freeway that you tested on.
**Realistically do you need anything more? Since it is a six speed having the ability to select any gear would make for a very long shifter**
Brilliant. Other car companies have come up with a slightly better way than this, snake. It's called a 'manumatic' shifter. YOU would have your D and L, the rest of us would have the ability to upshift and downshift thru all 6 gears. THAT would be the way to drive this car, or the MKZ, or a Lincoln LS. But ONLY the LS allows this and they don't make those anymore. You can get a manumatic on the Pacifica, MDX, CX-7, SRX, Audi, Hyundai, Dodge, ... do u get the point? Fine. You win. Spend your $45000 on this not-even-as-good-as-the-Mazda Mazda. And open your own magazine.
I agree though that MT is not infallible. Case in point - in the same article they raved about the hideous guages in the new Navigator.
yes the answer is some or few. Now the question is is it needed? the answer is no. Adding the 1 2 3 and 4 only make the shifter gate that much longer and is not really needed. I used to think the same way you do, when I bought my van the shifter only had "OD" "3" and "2" and I thought it was stupid not to have the "1". that was until I realized that I never needed to have the shifter in any car (automatics that is) in the first gear slot.
Man if you really want to shift buy a manual.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think we should wait for a few more test drives and comparisons. The other initial reviews don't seem nearly as bad as the MT review. And while it's far from perfect, the real question is whether it will sell the projected number of vehicles.
I think it will simply because of the styling and the number of Ford customers who want this type of vehicle. Let's face it - most buyers don't care about performance. They don't care if it's 0.3 seconds slower to 60 or stops a few feet farther. They care about styling, comfort and gadgets. And from that standpoint it looks like a hit (relatively speaking).
No I haven't. I haven't even seen one. They did not have one at my local L/M dealer when I was in there 2 days ago. Usually the magazines etc are the first to get to test drive new vehicles. You are the exception.
BTW, why would I want to test drive the thing? I have ZERO desire to own one. And I have better things to do with my time.
If you read my messages carefully you would see that I was presenting what Motor Trend said about how the car handles. Then I presented what I think about the vehicle, based first on the photos I've seen and also on what I read about it in MT (and here on Edmunds.) I think: - the car is butt-ugly outside(except for the rear end, which I like) - the dashboard belongs on a Kia, not a Lincoln - the D-L shifter limits the target market to blue hairs and former van drivers. - the car is WAY too expensive for what it is. - the Mazda it is based on is a much more capable vehicle. - the moonroof (apparently) works like the cheap aftermarket ones they put on old Datsuns - Did I mention the pathetic D-L shifter? Now that I've read MT, I can add poor braking, inability to turn off Advancetrak, "floaty/wallowy suspension" (but slightly better than the Edge) and uncomfortable rear seats to my reasons for not wanting this vehicle. Oh and terrible off-road capability, but I already figured on that. Oh, and I did learn also that Ford and Lincoln use a cheap AWD controller while the MAZDA uses a better computer-controlled AWD system. When someone builds a better Mazda, Lincoln wont build it.
So, like I said, you win. When do you publish your first issue?
I guess you don't read the messages you are responding to, oh exalted, revered tester of new cars. Here, read this from one of my previous messages and see if you can figure it out:
"3 words in there describe just about every Ford vehicle released in the last 5 or more years: 'could have been'. These twins remind me a lot of the Freestar/Monterey minivans. Outdated and outclassed when they were released. Those minivans are now dead and, whoa, I just realized Ford says it figures those buyers will want crossovers instead. Maybe that explains it - they AIMED low to meet the expectations of their former minivan buyers>. If you're used to driving a minivan, then D *is* all u need! "
Not sure how much of an exception I ma. Lincoln has been going around the country having events where people can test drive their cars. We just happened on one and choose the MKX (well my wife chose it I was wanting to do the MKZ).
And I have better things to do with my time.
Yeah like argue about a car you have no first hand knowledge of with someone that does.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I didn't come in here to argue with you, just to post what a car test magazine had to say. You started the name calling. You can think from now til eternity that we should take your word over MT and CD and R&T, but sorry, I for one don't. I'm sure they know more about cars than you do, or I do for that matter. And I can have an opinion on the car from photos and surrogate test drives whether you like it or not.
I own 2 Lincolns and 2 Fords. I've always been a Ford guy. I wanted the company to succeed. But over the last few years they have been cancelling their best cars (LS) and their best sellers (Taurus), getting rid of people SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN, releasing ridiculous, insulting commercials, and worst of all releasing ridiculous, insulting vehicles. They are in real tough shape, and it's all their own fault. Explorer roll-overs, exploding gas tanks in police cars, second rate tires because of nepotism, basing ALL their new cars on designs made in Japan or Sweden, closing US factories to make their cars in Mexico yet not passing along the HUGE savings that got them to the customer, and on and on.
Me? I've spent over $100,000 on Ford vehicles in the past 5 or 6 years yet when I had one simple, obvious problem that their field engineer agreed was a problem, they lied and hemmed and hawed and finally they told me to GOTO HE double hockey sticks. Well, I'm sure I'll meet lots of Ford people of all colors when I get there.
You can spend your hard earned $45K on this outclassed vehicle if u want. Me, I'd get an Outback before a MKX, an Accord before a MKZ and a Cadillac before a Navigator at this point. All just MHO.
I submit that when the reviewers first sat in the MKX and noticed the D-L shift selector, their mental image was "Another Town Car/ Grand Marquis". This applied a negative bias to their evaluation that they looked hard to justify.
Further, that the presence of a manumatic would have applied a whole different, more positive spin to their writing.
I'm a 71-year-old Ford retiree and auto enthusiast. My next vehicle WILL be a CUV. And, the absence of manumatic removes the MKX from my list of candidates.
**I'm a 71-year-old Ford retiree and auto enthusiast. My next vehicle WILL be a CUV. And, the absence of manumatic removes the MKX from my list of candidates. **
Good for you. Removes the Edge too as well as all Ford products. Leaves everything else though. The Mazda is pretty much the same vehicle and the CX-9 is a bit bigger with a 3rd row. Course as a retiree, you probably don't need that! :>)
Some of you people need to get it in your head that such a small percentage of people actually want manuals, much less automanuals. I'm 22 and I have about 4 friends my age with automanuals. 3 of them drive Mazdas and the other one has a BMW. None of them have actually used it (and two of the Mazda owners normally drives stick). They both say it's a hassle and lacks the feel of a true manual transmission. It's a useless features. Why spend even a few hundred dollars on a feature that's demanded by less than 1% of the population. People who want manuals can buy manuals (only about 10% of all vehicles sold are manuals anyways). Lincolns are not suppose to be enthusist cars. In fact, Lincoln's "Brand DNA" specifically states that it doesn't want to be the Ultimate Driving Machine that BMW's are. If that's what you want, then why are you even bothering posting in this forum. Go buy a BMW and be done with it. Lincoln is selling to people who want an upscale look with safety and comfort. A vehicle that has power when you need it, but isn't focused on 0-60 times.
1) Who cares what your friends do? 2) Where did you get your 1% figure? 3) If you think a manumatic is useless, then you are clueless as to the operation of a transmission. 4) If a manual is not offered on the vehicle a person wants, explain to me how they can buy a manual? And if a manual is not offered, an 'autostick' is a reasonable substitute, in spite of what your friends say. 5) Please post a link to Lincoln's "Brand DNA" in written form so I can see what you are talking about. 6) I own 2 Lincolns, 1 IS a manual with handling equal to a BMW 5 Series and I'll post in any forum I want.
There's a difference between comfortable and a lack of refinement. You can be comfortable, have softer rides and still be refined and a pleasure to drive. You have a point though with the Buick thing. Lincoln also wants to be technologically advanced and so far I see none of that in the MKX. I think the Edge is fine where it is, but Lincoln needs to be able to do more than just have cooled seats. Why couldn't the MKX have some of the cool features that the Volvo S80 got?
They both say it's a hassle and lacks the feel of a true manual transmission. It's a useless features.
I wouldn't say it is totally useless. They sure can help in passing and driving in hilly curvey places. Plus all the ones I have driven will allow the car to start out in second gear which can be very helpful at times.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
1) It was just an example. Personally I'm a car kind of guy, but most people my age see driving as a chore and not something you do for fun. I always my friend with a the BMW 5 series why she loves her car if she hates to drive it. I still don't have an answer. 2) It's just my personal estimate. 1% of the population uses or would want to use an automanual. Nothing to back it up. Just my opinion. 3) Okay I'm not saying that it doesnt help, of course it does. In fact I think the Last Mazda 3 test they shaved almost a full 1 second off of the 0-60 acceleration times. I'm just saying that most people dont use it so therefore, it's useless. 4) You buy a different vehicle. God bless capitalism. If there is a market for it, people will build it. But even Edmunds predicted the death of the manual transmission. 5) Can't internal Ford only. But essentially Lincoln is about everyone in the vehicle and not just the driving. Lincoln is not "the ultimate riding machine." 6) True you can post in any forum you want. I just don't see why you'd complain so much about a car you haven't driven, don't want to drive, and don't like so much. Personally I enjoy talking about things I like, but to each his own I guess.
**2) ... ** Just your personal estimate? Great. And u use it to justify everything else you say.
Well, my estimate is that 82.63% of people would find a manumatic usefull over a D-L only shifter.
**3) I'm just saying that most people dont use it so therefore, it's useless. **
Your definition of useless is useless. And again, not backed up by facts, only by your opinion.
**5) Can't internal Ford only. But essentially Lincoln is about everyone in the vehicle and not just the driving. Lincoln is not "the ultimate riding machine." **
So do you work for Ford?
And if Lincoln is not (quoting you) the ultimate driving machine and it's not the ultimate riding machine, what the he__ is it? The ultimate sitting machine?
6) It's a free country ain't it? If I want to complain that a company I've admired since I was younger than you is screwing up big time, who are you to tell me not to? If all people talked about was how nicey-nice everything is we'd still be living in mud huts.
We're both giving our opinions. I don't understand why you'd attack the fact that I'm giving my opinion. If you call my opinions useless than wouldn't your opinions be just as useless. I respect your opinions. Personally I like automanuals. I like driving responsive vehicles. I like driving light weight vehicles that aren't bogged down by stability control (unfortunately government mandates are pretty much shoving that down the toilet). I don't really plan on nor do I see myself owning a Lincoln. I don't expect though that every brand is going to produce a vehicle that I want to buy. I'm sorry that Lincoln's products don't meet what you want in a vehicle, but I don't think Lincoln is making a poor decision. You don't have to be the best at everything to offer a great value.
Comp386, you can add me to the list of people that could care less if a car has manu-mode on it or not. I purchased a Lexus RX350 back in August. It doesn't have that feature and, frankly, I don't think it needs it, although I believe you can get this feature on the "Performance package" for the RX. I didn't have it on my previous car (2002 Nissan Maxima SE) which was totalled in a wreck back in July. Again, I didn't feel the Max needed it either. Just my 02!! Not having manu-mode wouldn't cross a vehicle off of my list were I still looking for a vehicle at this point.
Aren't we speculating on what other people want? Some want to set-it-and-forget-it, like a refrigerator (Appliance), some want the ability to conveniently override the controls that the manufacturer dictated.
Certainly, the pre-ordained shift parameters don't meet all requirements for all drivers.
I believe our discussion has to do with how many people fall into each category. None of us know this, so why continue with our guesses?
Comments
First, the "review" touts the new 'adaptive front headlights' as manna fom heaven. The headline reads "New Lincoln Lightning System ..." 'Lightning'? The word is used many times. Well, if Lincoln does have a lightning system, it is sorta from heaven. (I HATE stoopid mistakes like this.) I also learned, from lincon.com, that these wunderbar adaptive headlights are NOT standard equipment. Optional at extra cost. Seems they should be included. I just checked and they're optional on the Lexus ES too (tho std on the LS).
The other item is the description of the 265 hp engine as having 'variable intake cam timing'. I thought the base 3.5 had no hi-tech stuff like vct etc?
Oh, I will, especially since I have an 05 LS430 that I like.
The interior was roomy to the point where I didn't have to have the seat all the way back to be comfortable behind the wheel. Even with the drivers seat all the way back I had enough room in the back to sit my 6 foot 3+ frame. All the seats were comfortable (with the back seats made even more so by their ability to recline. The front seat was comfortable all the way through the test drive.
The cargo area was adequate for the car, but I really loved the automated seats (the back seats folded down at a push of a button.
The dashboard was nice but could have a slightly better look to it. Everything seemed to be positioned pretty well and I loved having just about all the most used controls on the steering wheel.
The car drove great, handled well and responsive and the car stopped like a dream. It accelerated from a stop and from 30 MPH very well. The only thing I didn't really like was the ride. While nice and smooth I really expected a little more as we still felt many of the bumps on the road.
Overall I really liked the car and I would seriously consider it when the time comes to replace certain cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Basically it was a Lincoln sponsored event.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Why is Ford making the Mazda a better option than the Ford or Lincoln clones? Strange. And once again, why would anyone buy a Mazda with a Lincoln badge when they could get a better looking, sportier, bigger Mazda with a Mazda badge and the SAME engine as the Lincoln for less money?
And BTW, they ALL use hood prop rods.
They PANNED the Ford Edge and the MK X. It looks like Ford has another pair of losers on it's hands. Pretty much the worst of the lot. Comments like "The new 3.5 litre is thrashy...", " The 6speed auto has to hunt for the right gear and YOU CAN'T DO IT YOURSELF AS THE SHIFTER HAS ONLY 2 FORWARD POSITIONS, D AND L ..."; the roll stability control CAN NOT BE TURNED OFF and is overly intrusive in turns; brake feel disappointing; stopping distance one of the worst; and here's a good one: "a Lincoln should represent more than just an option package above Ford." (or Mazda for that matter.)
Too bad. Looks like the diverse group of designers, engineers and marketers at Ford just can't make a competitive vehicle anymore. MT said the Edge and X were the most anticipated in the test and the most disappointing. "The execution wasn't what we'd hoped." Same goes for me, boys. What a waste.
At least there are some good SUVs out there t choose from, all ranking far above these twins. And that includes the Mazda version of these twins, the CX-7 and the Hyundai Santa Fe even the Suzuki in every area except safety.
How much money and 'talent' was spent to produce these vehicles which are outclassed by everything from every other automaker? These asre looking like 2 more nails in the coffin. Only good news I see is they didn't make a Mercury version too.
BTW, the thought just occurred - where is ANT? Haven't heard from him in months. Either he can't take the heat trying to defend the indefensible anymore, or he took Ford up on their buyout offer.
Instead, we have suits calling the shots in formulating brilliant way forward into hell plan. Their money saving crap ideas like the D-L shifter, Mercury focusing on interior trim, hiding new engineering under old bodies with a slight facelift, the prop rod, no V8 for Lincoln (after all, their brilliant sleuthing shows that most people buy V6s), carrying on ancient models, advertising cars they do not have to sell, promoting new models 2 or 3 years before job one, trying to follow rather than lead...should I go on? (no)
The point is that the overpaid braindead suits who hold the purse strings are suffering from groupthink, a total lack of courage and no understanding at all that real change goes beyond public relations rhetoric and slicing parts of the company off at fire sale prices.
And, what Ford product is marketed towards white (male) faces? They want women to buy Mercury, gays to buy Jaguar and blacks to buy Lincoln. I guess by default I should buy a Ford? Except most of their 'bold moves' ads make the guy look like a [non-permissible content removed]. Like the one that REALLY offends me when the woman (of an apparently divorced couple) driving the invisible Freestyle actually allows the man to see his children and he fawningly thanks her. What a bold move. What stupid marketing.
I test drove this thing a few months ago and didn't find the engine trashy.
The 6speed auto has to hunt for the right gear and
Hardly noticed the tranny shift and it certinaly didn't hunt for anything.
YOU CAN'T DO IT YOURSELF AS THE SHIFTER HAS ONLY 2 FORWARD POSITIONS, D AND L
Realistically do you need anything more? Since it is a six speed having the ability to select any gear would make for a very long shifter.
the roll stability control CAN NOT BE TURNED OFF and is overly intrusive in turns;
Didn't notice anything being intrusive in the turns. Sure it doesn't turn like a sports car or a sedan, but its a SUV type vehicle.
brake feel disappointing; stopping distance one of the worst;
I found the brake feel simply the best I have ever experienced. I didn't notice braking distance to be anything unusual.
Did MT drive the same vehicle I did?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As for your other arguments, that is one of Ford's problems...if people don't need it or likely won't use it, why spend the $$ on it? But this is not a rational business or cars would be perceived as appliances only.
Well, MT drove the Edge AND the MKX and they drove them alongside 20 other 'new' SUVs. You get a good feel for what's working and what isn't with that large of a sample size.
Also, MT and the car mags tend to 'push' the performance of cars and therefore see how they handle and function in other than "blue-hair" type driving. I would presume you were, lets say, 'timid' in your driving of this vehicle? So you probably would not experience some of the driving problems they described. Auto-trannies tend to hunt uphills or during 'spirited' driving. The RSC they said applied brakes around curves far too soon and prevented them from really putting the vehicles thru their paces. Just the fact that Ford saved $2.00 on a SWITCH to turn the thing OFF and prevent the driver from controlling their own vehicle shows the mindset here.
They MEASURED the braking response compared to 20 other vsimilar vehicles and found these were just about the worst. Did you?
Finally, if you think all a driver ever needs is D and L, that Advancetrak should never be turned off, that spirited driving is for Formula 1, then you are the target market for this vehicle, which they estimated to cost $46,500 as tested.
Me? As an owner of 2 Lincolns, I wouldn't give them 50cents for this car. You can almost get 2 Hyundais for this price and either of them are better vehicles, according to MT.
Way Forward, Lincoln.
Again I ask, did they drive the same car I did?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You presume falsely.
Auto-trannies tend to hunt uphills or during 'spirited' driving.
And this one did no hunting while I was 'spirited' driving. No more than any other car has.
They MEASURED the braking response compared to 20 other vsimilar vehicles and found these were just about the worst. Did you?
I have driven many cars lately and while the MKX didn't have stellar numbers in braking distance (it wasn't a long braking distance either) the braking was felt smoother than the Lexus or the MB we recently test drove.
Finally, if you think all a driver ever needs is D and L,
lets be realistic, how many drivers of automatics put the lever past the 'D'? the answer is few.
that spirited driving is for Formula 1,
No I don't think spirited driving is formula 1, but I don't expect a SUV to handle like a sports car either. I try to be realistic. Sure its not going to handle curves like my wifes daily drive does but then its not supposed to its not a sedan.
Again I ask did they drive the same car I did?
I drove the car and the competition (did you?) and I disagree with their appraisal.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"This could have been a crossover with power and attitude; instead it's a highway cruiser and a near miss."
3 words in there describe just about every Ford vehicle released in the last 5 or more years: 'could have been'. These twins remind me a lot of the Freestar/Monterey minivans. Outdated and outclassed when they were released. Those minivans are now dead and, whoa, I just realized Ford says it figures those buyers will want crossovers instead. Maybe that explains it - they AIMED low to meet the expectations of their former minivan buyers. If you're used to driving a minivan, then D *is* all u need!
One more thing - when Ford recently announced it was throwing in the towel on minivans, the Ford guy says "we're tired of trying to be an Odyssey wanna-be"
I think soon we can replace Odyssey with "MDX" or "Accord" or "Civic" or "RDX" or "Camry" or "LS" or pick one. WITH THAT ATTITUDE, admitting they can't make something to compete with the Honda (or Dodge for that matter) minivans, who would buy a car from these people?
Do yourselves a favor before buying one of these - try the Lexus and Acuras first. Then try the Hyundai and Mazda. And see if u still wanna pay $45000 for a Mazda with a Lincoln badge and an AMC Spirit grille.
For gawds sake man, neither did they. they were comparing against other SUVs not sedans. And they still came out near dead last. Get in the game will ya.
**lets be realistic, how many drivers of automatics put the lever past the 'D'? the answer is few**
The answer is "some". ANd NONE of those will buy any of these Fords that are being built with these pathetic D-L shifters. NOBODY else in the market is making a shifter like this, NOT EVEN THE MAZDAs THESE CARS ARE BASED ON. It's another pathetic money-saving scheme by Ford, who now has a better idea how YOU should drive their cars. In the future, perhaps they'll put governors on the accelerator pedal, after all how many drivers ever try to do 0-60 in under 8 seconds? BTW, if u try to do that in these cars, you'll probably be disappointed as 7.9 was the bes MT could do on their TEST TRACK, not the freeway that you tested on.
**Realistically do you need anything more? Since it is a six speed having the ability to select any gear would make for a very long shifter**
Brilliant. Other car companies have come up with a slightly better way than this, snake. It's called a 'manumatic' shifter. YOU would have your D and L, the rest of us would have the ability to upshift and downshift thru all 6 gears. THAT would be the way to drive this car, or the MKZ, or a Lincoln LS. But ONLY the LS allows this and they don't make those anymore. You can get a manumatic on the Pacifica, MDX, CX-7, SRX, Audi, Hyundai, Dodge, ... do u get the point?
Fine. You win. Spend your $45000 on this not-even-as-good-as-the-Mazda Mazda. And open your own magazine.
I agree though that MT is not infallible. Case in point - in the same article they raved about the hideous guages in the new Navigator.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
yes the answer is some or few. Now the question is is it needed? the answer is no. Adding the 1 2 3 and 4 only make the shifter gate that much longer and is not really needed. I used to think the same way you do, when I bought my van the shifter only had "OD" "3" and "2" and I thought it was stupid not to have the "1". that was until I realized that I never needed to have the shifter in any car (automatics that is) in the first gear slot.
Man if you really want to shift buy a manual.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Suspicions confirmed.
**Man if you really want to shift buy a manual.**
I did. But they don't make them anymore (Lincoln LS)
I think it will simply because of the styling and the number of Ford customers who want this type of vehicle. Let's face it - most buyers don't care about performance. They don't care if it's 0.3 seconds slower to 60 or stops a few feet farther. They care about styling, comfort and gadgets. And from that standpoint it looks like a hit (relatively speaking).
I should have added 'male' to that.
Who's been running Mercury? - a woman
Who's been running Lincoln? - a black guy promoted from a parts warehouse.
Need I say more?
Oh please enlighten us oh great one, what suspicions?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
BTW, why would I want to test drive the thing? I have ZERO desire to own one. And I have better things to do with my time.
If you read my messages carefully you would see that I was presenting what Motor Trend said about how the car handles. Then I presented what I think about the vehicle, based first on the photos I've seen and also on what I read about it in MT (and here on Edmunds.) I think:
- the car is butt-ugly outside(except for the rear end, which I like)
- the dashboard belongs on a Kia, not a Lincoln
- the D-L shifter limits the target market to blue hairs and former van drivers.
- the car is WAY too expensive for what it is.
- the Mazda it is based on is a much more capable vehicle.
- the moonroof (apparently) works like the cheap aftermarket ones they put on old Datsuns
- Did I mention the pathetic D-L shifter?
Now that I've read MT, I can add poor braking, inability to turn off Advancetrak, "floaty/wallowy suspension" (but slightly better than the Edge) and uncomfortable rear seats to my reasons for not wanting this vehicle. Oh and terrible off-road capability, but I already figured on that.
Oh, and I did learn also that Ford and Lincoln use a cheap AWD controller while the MAZDA uses a better computer-controlled AWD system. When someone builds a better Mazda, Lincoln wont build it.
So, like I said, you win. When do you publish your first issue?
"3 words in there describe just about every Ford vehicle released in the last 5 or more years: 'could have been'. These twins remind me a lot of the Freestar/Monterey minivans. Outdated and outclassed when they were released. Those minivans are now dead and, whoa, I just realized Ford says it figures those buyers will want crossovers instead. Maybe that explains it - they AIMED low to meet the expectations of their former minivan buyers>. If you're used to driving a minivan, then D *is* all u need! "
Well when you do lets talk.
You are the exception.
Not sure how much of an exception I ma. Lincoln has been going around the country having events where people can test drive their cars. We just happened on one and choose the MKX (well my wife chose it I was wanting to do the MKZ).
And I have better things to do with my time.
Yeah like argue about a car you have no first hand knowledge of with someone that does.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I own 2 Lincolns and 2 Fords. I've always been a Ford guy. I wanted the company to succeed. But over the last few years they have been cancelling their best cars (LS) and their best sellers (Taurus), getting rid of people SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN, releasing ridiculous, insulting commercials, and worst of all releasing ridiculous, insulting vehicles. They are in real tough shape, and it's all their own fault. Explorer roll-overs, exploding gas tanks in police cars, second rate tires because of nepotism, basing ALL their new cars on designs made in Japan or Sweden, closing US factories to make their cars in Mexico yet not passing along the HUGE savings that got them to the customer, and on and on.
Me? I've spent over $100,000 on Ford vehicles in the past 5 or 6 years yet when I had one simple, obvious problem that their field engineer agreed was a problem, they lied and hemmed and hawed and finally they told me to GOTO HE double hockey sticks. Well, I'm sure I'll meet lots of Ford people of all colors when I get there.
You can spend your hard earned $45K on this outclassed vehicle if u want. Me, I'd get an Outback before a MKX, an Accord before a MKZ and a Cadillac before a Navigator at this point. All just MHO.
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/11945/2007-lincoln-mkx.html
Although their last line sums it up like this:
"The MKX is good, but unless you’re a huge fan of the styling or a dead-set on cooled seats, the Edge is a far better deal."
And I replied with first hand experience with the car disagree ing with what they said.
You started the name calling.
Sorry, the name calling came later when you jumped all over me for daring to question the all mighty MT writers.
As I said test drive the car then we can talk.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
At this point, not interested in doing either.
I submit that when the reviewers first sat in the MKX and noticed the D-L shift selector, their mental image was "Another Town Car/ Grand Marquis". This applied a negative bias to their evaluation that they looked hard to justify.
Further, that the presence of a manumatic would have applied a whole different, more positive spin to their writing.
I'm a 71-year-old Ford retiree and auto enthusiast. My next vehicle WILL be a CUV. And, the absence of manumatic removes the MKX from my list of candidates.
Good for you. Removes the Edge too as well as all Ford products. Leaves everything else though. The Mazda is pretty much the same vehicle and the CX-9 is a bit bigger with a 3rd row. Course as a retiree, you probably don't need that! :>)
2) Where did you get your 1% figure?
3) If you think a manumatic is useless, then you are clueless as to the operation of a transmission.
4) If a manual is not offered on the vehicle a person wants, explain to me how they can buy a manual? And if a manual is not offered, an 'autostick' is a reasonable substitute, in spite of what your friends say.
5) Please post a link to Lincoln's "Brand DNA" in written form so I can see what you are talking about.
6) I own 2 Lincolns, 1 IS a manual with handling equal to a BMW 5 Series and I'll post in any forum I want.
I wouldn't say it is totally useless. They sure can help in passing and driving in hilly curvey places. Plus all the ones I have driven will allow the car to start out in second gear which can be very helpful at times.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2) It's just my personal estimate. 1% of the population uses or would want to use an automanual. Nothing to back it up. Just my opinion.
3) Okay I'm not saying that it doesnt help, of course it does. In fact I think the Last Mazda 3 test they shaved almost a full 1 second off of the 0-60 acceleration times. I'm just saying that most people dont use it so therefore, it's useless.
4) You buy a different vehicle. God bless capitalism. If there is a market for it, people will build it. But even Edmunds predicted the death of the manual transmission.
5) Can't internal Ford only. But essentially Lincoln is about everyone in the vehicle and not just the driving. Lincoln is not "the ultimate riding machine."
6) True you can post in any forum you want. I just don't see why you'd complain so much about a car you haven't driven, don't want to drive, and don't like so much. Personally I enjoy talking about things I like, but to each his own I guess.
Well, my estimate is that 82.63% of people would find a manumatic usefull over a D-L only shifter.
**3) I'm just saying that most people dont use it so therefore, it's useless. **
Your definition of useless is useless. And again, not backed up by facts, only by your opinion.
**5) Can't internal Ford only. But essentially Lincoln is about everyone in the vehicle and not just the driving. Lincoln is not "the ultimate riding machine." **
So do you work for Ford?
And if Lincoln is not (quoting you) the ultimate driving machine and it's not the ultimate riding machine, what the he__ is it? The ultimate sitting machine?
6) It's a free country ain't it? If I want to complain that a company I've admired since I was younger than you is screwing up big time, who are you to tell me not to? If all people talked about was how nicey-nice everything is we'd still be living in mud huts.
that could care less if a car has manu-mode on
it or not. I purchased a Lexus RX350 back in
August. It doesn't have that feature and, frankly, I don't think it needs it, although I
believe you can get this feature on the "Performance package" for the RX. I didn't
have it on my previous car (2002 Nissan Maxima SE) which was totalled in a wreck back in July.
Again, I didn't feel the Max needed it either.
Just my 02!! Not having manu-mode wouldn't
cross a vehicle off of my list were I still looking for a vehicle at this point.
Certainly, the pre-ordained shift parameters don't meet all requirements for all drivers.
I believe our discussion has to do with how many people fall into each category. None of us know this, so why continue with our guesses?