I see so many patriots here. Buy only American..., which company have more american employees.., % of parts made in US, ...etc. But I always thought that American way is to choose what you like, - the best for you, regardless where it is made. If it is made here - perfect!. somewhere else? - good for them! I'm spending my money, and I'm spending on something that I like. It is like buying something useless from blind people just because it helps the cause. You want to help the American Auto industry? Buy their stocks. Kick out UAW ;-) Buying products that you do not like or want - won't do any good.
If GM or Ford see that people prefer Honda cars, how about to do some research and find out WHY IS THAT?
I don't think we can blame the UAW that much any more. Their recent givebacks will bring them into the transplant cost arena. I still think the biggest problem with D3 is engineering and purchasing. What I don't know is whether their weakness is due to management cost cutting or more scary, that our engineering and business schools are getting worse? I hope its not the latter, or our kids will be in big trouble in a decade or so.
I'd stay away from D3 stock, even Ford. If they survive, the dilution of their stock through conversions of debt and transfers to pension and health plans will probably limit their upside for quite awhile. You may get a double or triple over time, but I think there are a lot of places that will give you a better and faster return. If you like industrials, look at GE, ALCOA, Caterpillar, etc. I believe they all pay a dividend as well.
I still think the biggest problem with D3 is engineering and purchasing.
I think Ford is learning to leverage things to maximize the purchasing power, something GM has been working on for a while too. The issue is then everyone complains about parts bin engineering (even though everyone else does it too).
I think one of the issues at GM and Ford is they like to re-use things from previous models (carry-over parts) and that limits their ability to update and improve things. The other extreme is that each car model wants something new and different, either as an improvement or just to be new and different. The trick is to learn where to spend those dollars and where to save.
If you like industrials, look at GE, ALCOA, Caterpillar, etc. I believe they all pay a dividend as well.
Depends on how you see their financial portion. IMO its blown out of proportion due to the Wall Street bank fiasco. GE is fairly liquid, but right now people are paranoid about potential financial unknowns. GE is more about things like engines and power plant turbines. In fact, if GE spun off its financials you'd probably see a big stock pop, but that might be a bad thing longer term since it melds in with their aircraft engine and leasing operation, as well as foreign sales of power turbines.
As for D3 engineering and purchasing, its too focused on short term cost savings through cheap parts and design, and like too many US firms, D3 get so focused on quarterly financial reports that they shoot themselves in the foot versus longer term thinking transplants. Sometimes I think doing away with corporate quarterly's might not be all bad. It could reduce Wall Street short term trading and emphasis and maybe put product and production ahead of finance in this country for a change like it was back in the days when we were strong as a nation.
Depends on how you see their financial portion. IMO its blown out of proportion due to the Wall Street bank fiasco. GE is fairly liquid, but right now people are paranoid about potential financial unknowns. GE is more about things like engines and power plant turbines. In fact, if GE spun off its financials you'd probably see a big stock pop, but that might be a bad thing longer term since it melds in with their aircraft engine and leasing operation, as well as foreign sales of power turbines.
Oh I am all about GE, it was a great deal last week at 6.50, now 9.50, but no dividend (its like 0.10/share or something).
As for D3 engineering and purchasing, its too focused on short term cost savings through cheap parts and design, and like too many US firms, D3 get so focused on quarterly financial reports that they shoot themselves in the foot versus longer term thinking transplants.
I don't think that has been as true lately, it seems like there is an understanding that quality and reliability aren't features to tout, they are barriers to entry in the market. You have to have a quality reliable product to get looked at, then once you are at the table, then they start whining about the angle of the head restraint or how many cupholders you have.
Family car, for awhile, was an '72 Olds Cutlass. If not too costly, you might consider one. Great styling, though the gas mileage was not so good. America was doing better, IMHO, between 1967 and 73. True, some great ones before and then again after that period, but gosh darn, the style of that period of time seemed spot on!
That's because you had a great designer like Bill Mitchell at the helm, not the talentless hacks of today that probably let a computer do most of the work.
I think this new guy, Ed Wellburn?, at GM shows good promise. Otherwise I agree with you on current auto designers both D3 and import. There certainly isn't much design flair itching consumers into visiting the showrooms.
not the talentless hacks of today that probably let a computer do most of the work.
We were by the Cadillac dealer this morning. I asked my wife what she thought of the new styling with the angular emphasis. She had the same impression as I do. It looks like they hired the same person that came up with the Transformers Cartoons. Nothing aesthetic about the newer models of Cadillac. I know why Rocky likes them. He grew up with Transformer cartoons every Saturday.
We were by the Cadillac dealer this morning. I asked my wife what she thought of the new styling with the angular emphasis. She had the same impression as I do. It looks like they hired the same person that came up with the Transformers Cartoons. Nothing aesthetic about the newer models of Cadillac. I know why Rocky likes them. He grew up with Transformer cartoons every Saturday.
Actually this is one of GMs smarter moves. They stopped designing cars for old farts that are dying off and started design them for 30-somethings. This is especially true as people get married and reproduce later now, so there are a lot of late-20s early-30s folks who are either single professionals or DINKs.
My guess is Rocky is in that age group, if not that socio-economic category.
I don't think you would have to threaten me a lot to get me out of the Accord and into a CTS w/a 6 speed, whereas it would take considerable threatening to get me into say, a Lexus ES350. There are plenty of shapeless amoebas out there for those follks.
The CTS was a decent effort. I liked the original exterior shape. It is getting a bit too glitzy and overdone now. If they could reel in the price to say $30K, to $32K with an automatic, I would say it is a bargain. As is, I don't know.
I suppose it is just me, but the Corvette C5 looked better. Could be just me. I think I would buy a C4 or C5.
New cars seem to have this theme of high doors, which are flat sided. Not too exciting to me. The wheels are larger and larger, as though a return the earliest of days, when they thought cars to be an evolution of the wagon. And those fat A pillars. Blind spots in forward view? Even my 2007 Accord is sorta fat at the A pillar = not a positive, other than for good top strength.
Anyway, @ 56 y.o.a. I liked the old CTS. It is so interesting, or perhaps even odd, it pulls you in for a second look. Next up, the Chris Bangle look and Z3 vs, Z4, I guess for another board. Looks like BMW and Mercedes are getting bolder.... and Japan? What is really interesting is how good the old Jag XJ6 still looks today. If more narrow, I would consider one. We have narrow streets, and I prefer smaller, more narrow cars than truck width ones.
Told the people here that a GM bankruptcy was likely. Perhaps they may believe me now. Guess GM plans to hold on to Cadillac, Corvette and Chevy brands... won't they, as they head into restructuring. Just keep the RWD stuff, the rest is, well the rest, as in nothing too exciting.
I have thought for years that GM had way too many brands. They should have 3, period. Chevrolet, Cadillac and Saturn. Looks like they're keeping GMC, which is redundancy defined, and Buick - also redundant as a cheap luxury car, and dumping Saturn, which should go back to its roots as an entry level, somewhat sporty car for young people, schoolteachers and secretaries.
I think it should be Chevrolet, Cadillac and either Chevy Truck or GMC Truck, and maybe the top of the line Buick could be an entry Caddy under the CTS...dump Saturn, Saab, Hummer, Pontiac and anything else I forgot...too many lines, probably too much overlap in having so many cars, and no real identity for many...
Ford should dump Mercury and consolidate to Ford and Lincoln...too bad they sold Jaguar, as I would have liked it to stay in the Ford stable...Aston Martin, who needs it???...Volvo, was always in the forefront of safety and orthopedic seat technology, even back in the 60s/70s...nice to keep but I think it has been sold...
It's all about what sells. SUV's under a certain price point and trucks are exclusively Chevrolet. All upscale and specialty vehicles should be Cadillac.
But in order to maintain an brand name all its own, it needs enough models to sell, not just one or two...I do not think there is enough to maintain Mercury as a separate brand...do you???
Neither is there enough to maintain Lincoln (well, maybe just barely). Mercury needs a smoothed out Mustang variant to be the new Cougar, an Edge variant, and possibly one of those small SUVs Ford has over in Europe.
That's another possibility, bring some of the Euro-only stuff over and sell them as Mercuries.
GM may be Grand Memories now..... I would keep Cadillac, Corvette, GMC trucks, and work on some more entry level Cadillacs, say around the $28K range. Possibly import Opel for smaller cars. Drop the rest. There is nothing special about most all of the rest -- is there?
Ford / Mercury cars, such as the Milan, which is not too bad a lookin' gal, could just as well be a premium Fusion, or just switch plates. IMHO, the Milan is the better looker of the two. Just have a Continental and a Continental Sports model, like the old Mark VIII as the new Lincoln, and drop the Lincoln name. Continental and Continental Mark IX as Fords would be enough - Two cars, one medium large the other smaller and sporty.
Yeah, and we can always move the production to China and othe Pacific Rim countries and call it Globalist Motors. Of course, there would be no one left in North America to buy one as we'd all be too poor to afford automobiles.
It means ur an idiot...fat, lazy & overpaid uaw junk, lead by ignorant ceo's who disregard what the consumer actually wants i.e. (good mpg, reliable & actually fun to drive vehicles that return a good resale value) ( they dug their own grave). Business is Business & I have no sympathy; which they consistantly try & pull that card. Buy American pffft...why don't u be a good american and quit ripping of american consumers w/ your crappy gas guzzlin cars. I would rather buy a 3yr old honda then a brand new ford or gm. I would never buy a dodge. had bad enuff exp. w/ fords. r-gue w/ me all u want resale values tell the truth. hopefully ford gets better I would buy but they just don't have what I want and I still don't trust their reliability. They r on the right track simplify k.i.s.s. take a page out of hondas book they have 8-10 vehicles and luxury brand acura w/3-5 vehicles that's it. ford needs to keep lincoln & mercury but don't keep the same vehicle and change the grill & dash a little. example focus & milan. make a focus ford exclusive make merc. sable exlusive get rid of taurus. no duplicates that is retarded. they also really need a good mpg car. y so many sedans too they're ugly, hot lookin hatchbacks are more versatile and sporty lookin' IMO. I live 20 mins. drive out of detroit( motown)so buy american. I say make a good car! then I'll buy it. until then I will enjoy driving my 09 honda odyssey ex & 09 scion xB! (loser car company = loser football team) GO LIONS!!!!0-16 american car companys in an enallage chopped all the trees down and forgot to plant new ones. you reap what you sow
I completely agree, get rid of the redundacy. believe me they'll screw this up too. there management is out of touch old farts with no innovative ideas. maybe they should make triple cab 4500 pickup w/ a v12...u know u want one.
Ask Jeff Bridges to Take a Cue From The Boss and Stop the Hyundai commercials.
From the Associated Press 01/31/09:
“In an interview with The New York Times, Bruce Springsteen says he shouldn’t have made a deal with Wal-Mart. This month, the store started exclusively selling a Springsteen greatest-hits CD.”
“Some fans were critical because Springsteen has been a longtime supporter of worker’s rights, and Wal-Mart has faced criticism for its labor practices. Springsteen’s team didn’t vet the issue as closely as it should have, and that he “dropped the ball on it,” he told the Times ”.
Springsteen went on to say: “It was a mistake. Our batting average is usually very good, but we missed that one. Fans will call you on that stuff, as it should be.”
I feel Jeff Bridges should bow out of the Hyundai commercials now and I encourage others to ask that he does so, and that he makes a formal statement to the press like Springsteen.
Bridges is involved with the End Hunger Network, well liked and should set a better example.
It’s time America stopped being Asia’s Landfill and it’s time Americans helped out.
More Fords and GMs are made in Mexico than in the US, and more Hyundais are made in the US than in Korea now......so where's the real beef? What exactly does Bruce drive anyway? If what I heard is correct, it's a Mercedes Benz....... Of course, I could be wrong....
Oh, it may have been. So many of the elitists in Hollywood who think they are political geniuses stick up for the common man by driving a Prius these days, and the rest are in Bentleys.....it's hard to keep up.
Well, Sean Hannity brags on the air about how he owns a GM Hybrid....thereby proving that he cares only about the badge and not the actual fuel economy. :shades:
What do you expect? None of these famous public types have to live in anything resembling the real world like we do. Otherwise Bruce would have bought a 300C, Sean would have waited for the Fusion Hybrid, and Obama would have bought an Escape Hybrid...oh, wait, he did. Maybe he has some tenuous grasp of reality. :P
I heard Barack Obama has a Chrysler 300-C. Well, if I were one of those Hollywood celebrity types, I'd be driving a Buick Lucerne CXS Super. I would take Tiger Wood's place as their spokesman.
He had one...I think he sold it. Not like he gets to drive much these days anyway.
Oh and the fact that none of those celebrity types are driving a Buick should tell you something. Should also tell you something that they made Chevy hybrids, GMC hybrids, Saturn hybrids, and Caddy hybrids, but didn't make a hybrid badge for Buicks. GM doesn't think it's worth investing much in in the US.
With the freaks and weirdos we call celebrities today, I'm glad none of them disgrace Buick's good name! I'm glad GM at least picked a nice guy like Tiger Woods to be Buick's spokesperson. Wouldn't mind if Jay Leno endorsed Buick either. He seems like a real car guy.
I'll do it myself and ask for nothing in return. Buick is truly a car I believe in. You can't get anymore honest than an ordinary guy asking for no compensation to endorse your product - especially one who is not in an way associated with the auto industry.
I'm glad GM at least picked a nice guy like Tiger Woods to be Buick's spokesperson.
My only issue with using celebrities like Tiger, Micheal Jordan etc, is do they really like the product or just doing it for the money. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt Tiger drives around in a Buick unless he's contractually obligated to show up to golf tournaments in one (well when he was under contract anyway). I'm not bashing Buick, but most people with that kind of money drive around in more expensive vehicles, particularly someone as young as Tiger.
I know when Micheal Jordan endorsed Chevy, I knew some people who saw him in Chi-town a Corvette on occasion. Though, when he was seen at the casino's in Indiana it was often in a Ferrari. I've seen he's moved up a bit in his last few commercials. I think there is a Hanes commercial where he's in Jag or Bentley convertible, can't recall exactly.
I dunno. If I were a celebrity, I'd STILL be driving a Buick - only it might be something like a mint-condition 100-point 1958 Buick Limited. Oh, and I prefer Fruit of the Loom! :P
"especially one who is not in an way associated with the auto industry."...sorry, lemko, you are very MUCH associated with the auto industry...first, you post your opinions at Edmunds, second, you often disagree with me...if that does not show OBJECTIVE, undeniable bias I don't know what does...esp if you disagree with ME, then I can only conclude that YOU are biased...no sponsorship for YOU... :P :surprise: ...:):):):):)
Who, with half a brain, really cares what a celebrity drives? I wish singer / songwriters would get back to producing quality work, and step away from the lectern, as there is no need to preach. Let the pastors preach the sermons, and the politicians spread the bull !!! What does a golfer know about cars, or an actor know about World politics? - Usually, very little. Even should they be, ever so well informed, it is there ability as a star which I am impressed with and not their religion, politics, or fashion. Good grief, do we really need more Brittany Spears photos???
I dunno, I ended up pretty impressed with the political smarts of guys like Jesse Ventura and Arnie the Governator. Sometimes you just never can tell....though it's true that at least 80% of them only know how to act like a politician.
Then again, at least 80% of CEOs taking taxpayer bailouts only know how to act like a CEO. :shades: This includes several present and recently terminated executives working in Michigan (except for Dearborn, heh).
Comments
It is like buying something useless from blind people just because it helps the cause. You want to help the American Auto industry? Buy their stocks. Kick out UAW ;-) Buying products that you do not like or want - won't do any good.
If GM or Ford see that people prefer Honda cars, how about to do some research and find out WHY IS THAT?
I'd stay away from D3 stock, even Ford. If they survive, the dilution of their stock through conversions of debt and transfers to pension and health plans will probably limit their upside for quite awhile. You may get a double or triple over time, but I think there are a lot of places that will give you a better and faster return. If you like industrials, look at GE, ALCOA, Caterpillar, etc. I believe they all pay a dividend as well.
I think Ford is learning to leverage things to maximize the purchasing power, something GM has been working on for a while too. The issue is then everyone complains about parts bin engineering (even though everyone else does it too).
I think one of the issues at GM and Ford is they like to re-use things from previous models (carry-over parts) and that limits their ability to update and improve things. The other extreme is that each car model wants something new and different, either as an improvement or just to be new and different. The trick is to learn where to spend those dollars and where to save.
If you like industrials, look at GE, ALCOA, Caterpillar, etc. I believe they all pay a dividend as well.
GE not so much anymore.
Depends on how you see their financial portion. IMO its blown out of proportion due to the Wall Street bank fiasco. GE is fairly liquid, but right now people are paranoid about potential financial unknowns. GE is more about things like engines and power plant turbines. In fact, if GE spun off its financials you'd probably see a big stock pop, but that might be a bad thing longer term since it melds in with their aircraft engine and leasing operation, as well as foreign sales of power turbines.
As for D3 engineering and purchasing, its too focused on short term cost savings through cheap parts and design, and like too many US firms, D3 get so focused on quarterly financial reports that they shoot themselves in the foot versus longer term thinking transplants. Sometimes I think doing away with corporate quarterly's might not be all bad. It could reduce Wall Street short term trading and emphasis and maybe put product and production ahead of finance in this country for a change like it was back in the days when we were strong as a nation.
Depends on how you see their financial portion. IMO its blown out of proportion due to the Wall Street bank fiasco. GE is fairly liquid, but right now people are paranoid about potential financial unknowns. GE is more about things like engines and power plant turbines. In fact, if GE spun off its financials you'd probably see a big stock pop, but that might be a bad thing longer term since it melds in with their aircraft engine and leasing operation, as well as foreign sales of power turbines.
Oh I am all about GE, it was a great deal last week at 6.50, now 9.50, but no dividend (its like 0.10/share or something).
As for D3 engineering and purchasing, its too focused on short term cost savings through cheap parts and design, and like too many US firms, D3 get so focused on quarterly financial reports that they shoot themselves in the foot versus longer term thinking transplants.
I don't think that has been as true lately, it seems like there is an understanding that quality and reliability aren't features to tout, they are barriers to entry in the market. You have to have a quality reliable product to get looked at, then once you are at the table, then they start whining about the angle of the head restraint or how many cupholders you have.
Are car stocks driving you out of the market?
The Stock Market and Investing
We were by the Cadillac dealer this morning. I asked my wife what she thought of the new styling with the angular emphasis. She had the same impression as I do. It looks like they hired the same person that came up with the Transformers Cartoons. Nothing aesthetic about the newer models of Cadillac. I know why Rocky likes them. He grew up with Transformer cartoons every Saturday.
Actually this is one of GMs smarter moves. They stopped designing cars for old farts that are dying off and started design them for 30-somethings. This is especially true as people get married and reproduce later now, so there are a lot of late-20s early-30s folks who are either single professionals or DINKs.
My guess is Rocky is in that age group, if not that socio-economic category.
I don't think you would have to threaten me a lot to get me out of the Accord and into a CTS w/a 6 speed, whereas it would take considerable threatening to get me into say, a Lexus ES350. There are plenty of shapeless amoebas out there for those follks.
I suppose it is just me, but the Corvette C5 looked better. Could be just me. I think I would buy a C4 or C5.
New cars seem to have this theme of high doors, which are flat sided. Not too exciting to me. The wheels are larger and larger, as though a return the earliest of days, when they thought cars to be an evolution of the wagon. And those fat A pillars. Blind spots in forward view? Even my 2007 Accord is sorta fat at the A pillar = not a positive, other than for good top strength.
Anyway, @ 56 y.o.a. I liked the old CTS. It is so interesting, or perhaps even odd, it pulls you in for a second look. Next up, the Chris Bangle look and Z3 vs, Z4, I guess for another board. Looks like BMW and Mercedes are getting bolder.... and Japan? What is really interesting is how good the old Jag XJ6 still looks today. If more narrow, I would consider one. We have narrow streets, and I prefer smaller, more narrow cars than truck width ones.
loren :shades:
Ford should dump Mercury and consolidate to Ford and Lincoln...too bad they sold Jaguar, as I would have liked it to stay in the Ford stable...Aston Martin, who needs it???...Volvo, was always in the forefront of safety and orthopedic seat technology, even back in the 60s/70s...nice to keep but I think it has been sold...
G8?? Chevy
LaCrosse? Caddy
Upscale AWD CUV/SUV?? Caddy.
2 Divisions that sell brands that are desirable, meet customer's expectations and are profitable.
No More Clones (almost typed Clowns!)
Prius fighter?? Chevy. Tesla S fighter?? Caddy. Easy. :shades:
Regards,
OW
That's another possibility, bring some of the Euro-only stuff over and sell them as Mercuries.
they have 8-10 vehicles and luxury brand acura w/3-5 vehicles that's it. ford needs to keep lincoln & mercury but don't keep the same vehicle and change the grill & dash a little. example focus & milan. make a focus ford exclusive make merc. sable exlusive get rid of taurus. no duplicates that is retarded. they also really need a good mpg car. y so many sedans too they're ugly, hot lookin hatchbacks are more versatile and sporty lookin' IMO. I live 20 mins. drive out of detroit( motown)so buy american. I say make a good car! then I'll buy it. until then I will enjoy driving my 09 honda odyssey ex & 09 scion xB! (loser car company = loser football team)
GO LIONS!!!!0-16
american car companys in an enallage chopped all the trees down and forgot to plant new ones. you reap what you sow
Ask Jeff Bridges to Take a Cue From The Boss and Stop the Hyundai commercials.
From the Associated Press 01/31/09:
“In an interview with The New York Times, Bruce Springsteen says he shouldn’t have made a deal with Wal-Mart. This month, the store started exclusively selling a Springsteen greatest-hits CD.”
“Some fans were critical because Springsteen has been a longtime supporter of worker’s rights, and Wal-Mart has faced criticism for its labor practices. Springsteen’s team didn’t vet the issue as closely as it should have, and that he “dropped the ball on it,” he told the Times ”.
Springsteen went on to say: “It was a mistake. Our batting average is usually very good, but we missed that one. Fans will call you on that stuff, as it should be.”
I feel Jeff Bridges should bow out of the Hyundai commercials now and I encourage others to ask that he does so, and that he makes a formal statement to the press like Springsteen.
Bridges is involved with the End Hunger Network, well liked and should set a better example.
It’s time America stopped being Asia’s Landfill and it’s time Americans helped out.
Was it from the "Daimler Chrysler" merger of equals?
What do you expect? None of these famous public types have to live in anything resembling the real world like we do. Otherwise Bruce would have bought a 300C, Sean would have waited for the Fusion Hybrid, and Obama would have bought an Escape Hybrid...oh, wait, he did. Maybe he has some tenuous grasp of reality. :P
Oh and the fact that none of those celebrity types are driving a Buick should tell you something. Should also tell you something that they made Chevy hybrids, GMC hybrids, Saturn hybrids, and Caddy hybrids, but didn't make a hybrid badge for Buicks. GM doesn't think it's worth investing much in in the US.
Which means it'll probably get parceled off in that surgical bankruptcy: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514823,00.html
Which, when you get down to it, is REALLY sad. :shades: Maybe they can get the World Bocce Ball Champ to endorse Buick. Naah, probably not...
My only issue with using celebrities like Tiger, Micheal Jordan etc, is do they really like the product or just doing it for the money. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt Tiger drives around in a Buick unless he's contractually obligated to show up to golf tournaments in one (well when he was under contract anyway). I'm not bashing Buick, but most people with that kind of money drive around in more expensive vehicles, particularly someone as young as Tiger.
I know when Micheal Jordan endorsed Chevy, I knew some people who saw him in Chi-town a Corvette on occasion. Though, when he was seen at the casino's in Indiana it was often in a Ferrari. I've seen he's moved up a bit in his last few commercials. I think there is a Hanes commercial where he's in Jag or Bentley convertible, can't recall exactly.
And I imagine that in real life, Michael puts his [non-permissible content removed] in something more expensive than Hanes! :P
I would imagine.
Ah yes, that's right, how could I have forgotten it was an Aston.
Then again, at least 80% of CEOs taking taxpayer bailouts only know how to act like a CEO. :shades: This includes several present and recently terminated executives working in Michigan (except for Dearborn, heh).