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BYD has also begun selling a plug-in electric car with a backup gasoline engine, a move putting it ahead of GM, Nissan, and Toyota. BYD's plug-in, called the F3DM (for "dual mode"), goes farther on a single charge - 62 miles - than other electric vehicles and sells for about $22,000, less than the plug-in Prius and much-hyped Chevy Volt are expected to cost when they hit the market in late 2010. Put simply, this little-known upstart has accelerated ahead of its much bigger rivals in the race to build an affordable electric car. Today BYD employs 130,000 people in 11 factories, eight in China and one each in India, Hungary, and Romania.
GM is toast. Rocky should find out who will be selling the electric cars from China and get in on the ground floor.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/13/technology/gunther_electric.fortune/index.htm
Ahh if only cars could be made by small businesses,,,
Is your opinion based on Hyundai Excel from late 80's same as opinion of others who think about quality of American cars based on 1985 Ford Tempo, Chevy Cavalier or Olds Delta 88?
Have you tried Genesis or Sonata? Can you see yourself driving one? Is there anything Hyundai or Kia could do to convince you to buy one of their cars?
I've not tried a Genesis - afraid it would make me doubt my Lexus! I will say however, that even if it does, I can't drive a Hyundai in that price range - it would need some type of more appropriate moniker to actually compete with Lexus. IMO.
I used to like Hyundai and Kia when they did their own thing. The Kia Amanti is a funky car that looks like a Buick LeSabre with an E-Class front end sporting a Chrysler grille. The previous Optima had sort of a mid-60s Mopar compact look about it - not exactly - but a touch of the flavor.
Today's Kia and Hyundai cars, (aside from the Amanti) look like their bland Japanese competition. The Hyundai Sonata looks too much like an Accord and the Azera resembles a Camry. The Genesis seems to me like a knock-off of an Avalon.
Which Olds 88 are we talking about? If we're talking about the gasoline-powered RWD B-body 1980-85 Olds 88, it was an excellent car I'd purchase in a New York second. If your talking about the mediocre 1986 era FWD V-6 car, it's bad but not Excel bad. Some slick salesman tried to push a new 1987 Olds 88 on me, but I bought a superior 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic instead.
1980s Ford Tempos and Chevy Cavaliers were crap and such cars are not even on my radar then or now. They were as bad as Excels IMHO.
I guess if I had to get a Kia or Hyundia, the Amanti would be the one I'd most likely purchase.
Except occasionally when I see one on the road. My first though is " I can't believe that POS is still running", and the second is "I can't believe someone is still willing to drive it". I guess it's better than walking but only barely.
Disclosure: I had the luxury (cough, cough, not) of driving an '85 Tempo for a while back in the early 90's. It was umm, yeah, better than walking.....
My stepdad had a 1984 Tempo GL coupe, bought brand-new. I hated that car, but I also didn't get along with my stepdad, so that probably influenced my opinion of the car. I did get to drive it once. That was more than enough. Slow piece of junk, and made my '80 Malibu with its 115 hp V-6 feel like a musclecar in comparison.
They got that car to around 160,000 miles, and then traded on a '91 Stanza, which oddly, would prove to not be nearly as reliable. The Tempo was still on its original engine and tranny, but I think they did have other problems with it. Can't remember what now, though.
There's a house near my mechanic's shop with a 4-car carport. It has not one, but TWO Tempos parked underneath! Also has an AMC Hornet and, occasionally, an 80's Cutlass Supreme sedan. I guess the Cutlass is the only one that runs, since it's occasionally not there. :P
I think America can do RWD better, so I may get a Stang or Vette next for the play car. Maybe the '03-'04 Stang, or a brand new one, which in its own way is has some selling points over the previous model, though the older one, to me seems trim and shall we say really simple. The New Stang is pretty nice for 2010. The 3.5V6 though is STILL MISSING, the current V6 is OK and the V8 a very good option. As for Vettes, I still prefer the C5 look.
Did they still use that "Lightning Rod" shifter, or whatever it was called, that late on? I know some of the earlier cars used it, like around 1983-84, but I thought they dropped it because it confused too many people?
I wouldn't mind having one of those RWD 80's 442's today, or even just a regular Cutlass Supreme with the 307. I always liked them better than the Monte Carlo SS. And even though the Grand National is faster, I just prefer the relative simplicity and rugged durability of the 307 to the more complex turbo V-6.
One thing I find amusing about the RWD Delta 88, is that my 1985 Consumer Guide actually ripped it apart! They also tested a 1985 LeSabre coupe with the 307, a Caprice sedan with the 262 V-6, and a Parisienne sedan with the 305. Those three tested out better, and they gave a "Best Buy" rating to the Chevy and Pontiac.
The main area where they ripped the Delta was stuff like build quality, fit/finish, paint quality, and interior workmanship. They did say it could have just been a bad sample, but was still inexcusable considering Olds has only been building this car for eight years!
I wonder if the quality of the Delta 88 might have gone downhill some in the final year, as they rushed to finish building them and get them out the door, so they could shut down and re-tool for the downsized '86 model? That was also the LeSabre's last year, but the LeSabre wasn't nearly as strong of a seller as the Delta. So maybe with the high demand of the Delta, they were just throwing them together too quickly?
Yeah, those were very cool cars back then.
-Rocky
-Rocky
And Hello to Rocky -- sorry to see your GM go generally down. Oh well, the USA still has FORD.
-Loren
Yes, those are the headlines! How then, if not in bankruptcy, do you cancel dealership contracts? And the pensions to be fully paid? Rough road ahead, but amazing headlines, if the UAW did make MEANINGFUL concessions. Wow - what times these are!
I believe the dealership contracts are 5 year deals that are up in October of this year.
I would say all contracts are in question during BK. It seems the judge should decide. According to some owners they were told their contract was canceled June 9th. I would think that should be the court's duty to decide who gets screwed and who gets paid. If I was left with $3million in inventory and a mortgage that was directly tied to Chrysler, I would not go down without a fight. I think the best and fastest way is both GM and C file for liquidation and let the law decide who gets what.
Neat looking New Camaro, if it had thinner A pillars, more glass area, lower door window sills, I think I would go for it -- sadly it doesn't & it is a tad large too. Trim a couple-three inches off the width, and half a foot off the length, and I would consider buying one. Maybe a Mustang with a GM 3.6 V6 and transmission would be better :-) Looks like Hyundai Genesis Coupe has the right stuff. Ford has put off the new engine and tranny for too long. And the gas mileage = not so good. Get with it, the car is good in other ways, and looks great.
Regards,
OW
The length I can see, but the width may compromise handling
Have a great Memorial Day weekend everybody.
Regards,
Dale
almost half of GM's products are assembled in other countries outside the US so some portions of American Car Manufactures profits go to Mexico, Canada, Korea, and China!! here is a list to prove my point of US Cars built in other countries
Aveo - Korea
Camaro - Canada
Equinox - Canada
Avalanche - Mexico
HHR - Mexico
Impala - Canada
SRX - Canada
LaCrosse - Canada
Regal - Korea
Fusion - Mexico
MKS - Mexico
MKX - Canada
MKZ - Mexico
Grand Marquis - Canada
Milan - Mexico
Chrysler 300 - Canada
PT Cruiser - Mexico
Charger - Canada
Grand Caravan - Canada
as you can see the American Car Companies, especially GM owes a lot of money to Mexico and Canada so their production workers are paid!!
MKS - Mexico
MKX - Canada
MKZ - Mexico
Grand Marquis - Canada (and dead)
Milan - Mexico
Again, not to let facts get in the way of a good discussion:
The Lincoln MKS is built at Ford's Chicago Assembly plant in Chicago, Illinois.
Vehicles Produced in NA:
Lincoln MKX - Oakville, Ontario
Lincoln MKS - Chicago
Ford Econoline - Avan, OH
Ford Edge - Oakville, Ontario
Ford Escape - Kansas City
Ford Explorer/ Sport Trac - Louisville, KY
Ford Focus - Wayne, MI
Ford Mustang - Flat Rock, MI
Ford Taurus - Chicago
Ford F150 (the best selling vehicle in the US) - Dearborn, MI/Kansas City, MO
Additionally, the Focus and upcoming "Kuga" are going to be manufactured in the US and EXPORTED to other countries.
And since Mexico is in (North) America, either way the Lincoln is an American car.
I used those list of American cars assembled in other countries to illustrate that it doesn't matter anymore whether you buy a Japanese, American, German, or Korean automobile because no matter which one you get all of that money does not go back to that country of origin; a lot of it goes to other countries for assembly plants and production workers and companies that make parts for those vehicles
the car industry has become so heterogeneous when it comes to foreign parts that I would say 75% of all cars in the market have a mixture of American and foreign part so that even if your buying a Ford, GM, or Chrysler not all of that money goes to Detroit, just as if you buy a Toyota, Honda, or Nissan not all that money goes back to Tokyo!
You won't get much of an argument from most folks here. I prefer to spend my hard earned dollars on vehicles assembled in the US with a majority of the parts contend also from the US, not necessarily "American made" as that also includes Mexico and Canada.
I don't get your point, what are you trying to say?
Nothing against a 3rd World car company competing with the U.S. on a level playing field but, the Sweat Shop cars have helped to undermine a large part of our industries and economy.
The last I knew, Hyundai does compete on a level playing field along with the rest of the auto manufacturers. Why do you say that the US manufacturers can't compete on a level playing field?
So the MKS, Taurus, and the new Explorer are domestically produced in Chicago, along with some EcoBoost powertrains.
Like I said, we don't need to let facts get in the way of a discussion.
Also, if Chrysler is owned by a German now Italian company, are they in the same boat as any other foreign manufacturer that builds stuff in the US?
Dodge Caliber/Jeep Compass/Jeep Patriot - Belvidere, IL
Viper - Downtown D-town, MI
Jeep Grand Cherokee/commander - Detroit, MI
Jeep Liberty/Dodge Nitro/Wrangler - Toledo, OH (rumored the cause for the great 2003 blackout)
Dodge Ram/Dakota/Raider - Warren, MI
and the Avenger/Sebring plant in Sterling Heights got the axe.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just out of curiosity, how badly would it devastate the local economy if that plant was to close down? I've been past it a few times on my way to and from Cedar Point...that sucker is HUGE!!
I hope that when the Cruze comes out, it's enough to keep that place running at a decent capacity.
One out of six Americans can't find the job they need. Your stategy is: that a Hundai is cheep enough that someone on unemployment can afford it, therefore US is OK? We just all need to buy Hundais?
News reported that Toyota employs a Grand Total of 30,000 in the US. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow Wow.
Anderson, Indiana lost 31,000 GM jobs since 1981.
We are headed in the right direction which is fewer gallons burned.
Now we just need to spend more, tax more, and borrow more.
Acceptance of continued and obviously unfair one way trade philosophy remains as the fundamental flaw in our "free" trade policy, and the reason why the USA manufacturing has been decimated. They all have closed markets that allow their businesses to get up to speed and then overtake our industry. Google Korea blocks USA cellphones or Harley Davidson or India.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009/12/us-cars-excluded- -from-japans-cash-for-clunkers-program-/1
And the question has to be asked about how many of those are actual full-time employees who have to be laid off to be terminated? How many are part-time employees to whom the company has no responsibility?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Cobalt--built in OH (a high-volume model with high NA content)
Malibu--built in KS (a high-volume model with high NA content)
Silverado--built in IN (a high-volume model with high NA content)
Corvette--built in KY (OK, not a high-volume model)
G6--built in MI (a high-volume model with high NA content)
All Saturns--built in U.S.
Buick Enclave and Lucerne--built in U.S.
Cadillac DTS--built in MI
Cadillac CTS and STS--built in U.S.
It took me less than a minute to find this on the 'net...from the "Level Field Institute". It completely contradicts your sweeping statement about the Japanese manufacturers employing more factory workers than the domestics:
U.S. automakers (Ford, GM and Chrysler) employ twice as many U.S. workers (per car) as foreign automakers (including all the cars they make here). Even with recent buyouts, GM employs about as many Americans as Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Subaru, Mercedes, BMW and VW combined. Ford and Chrysler each employ more U.S. workers at a single manufacturing facility than Hyundai and VW employ nationwide. Honda, the largest, longest operating "transplant" manufacturer in the U.S., employs significantly more workers, per car, than rivals Hyundai, Nissan and VW. But even Honda employs only 25,000 Americans, less than half of Ford’s employee count, and about a third of GM’s current total.
Supplier Jobs.
"Made in America" matters even more when you look at the men and women working for the auto parts suppliers that serve automakers. These companies employ twice as many Americans as the automakers themselves, and they conduct approximately 40% of automotive R&D.
Ford, GM and Chrysler use twice the “domestic content,” per car, that foreign automakers use, on average. As a result, even though Ford, GM and Chrysler sold less than half the vehicles purchased in the U.S. last year, they purchased two-thirds of the parts made here.
Can you provide independent documentation for your statements?
Bill P.
you are correct that the American auto companies have more plants and workers then do the Japanese, German, and Korean manufactures but it still doesn't negate the fact that the foreign automakers employ a considerable amount of US workers in their plants and to say that the 30k US workers Toyota employs is not that much, is a utter bunch of crock because I think those 30k employees would disagree that their jobs are nothing and meaingless compared to a Ford, GM, or Chrysler employee
I was simply responding to an idiotic comment by someone on a Toyota forum who said that if you buy Japanese you don't support the US and if you buy a GM, Ford, or Chrysler all that money goes to Detroit and you know just as I do that, that is simply an utter lie; GM for instance has almost half their models built in foreign countries so when you buy American, some of that money is going to Mexico, Canada, Korea, and China to pay for foreign autoworkers, plants, and parts!
while of course, a larger percentage of money goes to the US if you buy an American car compared to a foreign one, buying a Japanese, German, or Korean car assembled and built in the this country still entails supporting America because those companies have to send some of that profit back to pay for their US plants and US autoworkers!
one thing though I did not ever say was that US automobiles used primarily foreign parts; GMs, Fords, and Chryslers of course have a higher percentage of domestic parts then they do foreign parts, while the opposite is true of Toyotas, Nissans, and Hondas, every year, more and more American automobiles are using more and more foreign parts; GM for instance, has several models who have many components/parts made by Chinese and Korean companies/workers so there is even more money that goes to foreign companies when you buy an American automobile
Yes I agree, why would you want a vehicle produced in oshawa ont. at the highest rated GM plant in NA?
:confuse:
p.s. the camaro has been built in Canada since 1993-2002.
:surprise:
do you know how hard it is to find something in a store that was made in US???
its gotten so ridiculous in this country that if you want something made in the US you have to make it yourself!
Hey, Canadians buy lots of GM cars. I've always been perfectly happy that they are for the most part cooperative trading partners. I'd buy a Camaro made in Canada. And as mentioned it's one of the highest quality plants--better than Georgetown toyo plant IIRC.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
my point was, that a car, such as the Camaro, which has a long legendary history in this country should be built in the US, plain and simple; thats the way it used to be way back in the hayday of GM (1950s and 1960s) and it makes no sense that GM would do that when another classic, the corvette, continues to be made here and Ford was smart enough to continue to build the Mustang here!!
You want to show the Japanese, German, and Korean automakers, hell the entire world for that matter, that your making a comeback and have cars that compete, you build an American staple (Camaro) in the US of A not a foreign country! come on GM, don't be so ridiculous :P
Camaro = Legendary American Built Muscle Car :shades:
Camaro does not = Legendary Canadian Built Muscle Car! :P
I also believe Mexico has shown they suck at assembling cars (VW & Chrysler issues).
I prefer stuff made in Germany or Japan.