My own opinion is that anybody can make any numbers fit their scenario, but sheesh, just look around! I think it's a safe bet that the steel mills in NW Indiana don't employee anywhere near the numbers employed in the '70's.
No they don't, probably 1/2, but they put out nearly as much steel. Most of the jobs were cut in the early 80's. My FIL was laid off for 2 years from 81-83 or so from the mill he worked at.
Most of the communities have survived intact. Though Gary is a hell hole, but it's been that way since the early 70's. Most of my family and friends still live in NW Indiana and they are all working with good jobs in nice communities. Most of them don't have degrees either.
Baldwin only built steam locomotives, didn't they? Or did they ever make the jump to diesel/electric?
Nope, I'm guessing that's why they were done building locomotives in the 50's and out of business in the early 70's. Actually, I think they did build some diesels, but they weren't competitive.
The first car my Mom ever financed was a 1986 Monte Carlo. Back then, GM was offering 2.9% for 48 months. I think her payment was around $280/mo.
Before that, the three new cars she had, a 1966 Catalina, 1975 LeMans, and 1980 Malibu, she paid cash for. Well, with the Catalina, she saved up half, borrowed the other half from an aunt, and then paid that aunt back.
All the cars since that Monte have been financed, too...'91 Stanza, '98 Expedition, '99 Altima, '02 F-150, '08 Altima. Kinda funny how, even though they were better off financially as the years went by, they were more and more willing to finance. I think they usually got a pretty good rate, though.
I financed my 2000 Intrepid for 60 months. The rate was 0.9%, so no incentive to pay it off early.
But then, I've also known people with bad credit, who have taken out loans of 20% or more for a used car! OUCH!
Baldwin did transition to building diesel locomotives, but they got a late start and were crushed out of the market by the Electro-Motive divison of (drum roll)... General Motors.
Budd got their start building steel bodies for the automakers in the 1920s, but when the autos brought that work in-house Budd turned to building railroad passenger cars for a few decades. The railroad passenger car market dwindled down to practically nothing beginning in the mid-1950s, and Budd never found another line of work to keep the business going and shut down in the '80s.
In your dad's day, that new Ford was about as sophisticated, durable, and expensive to manufacture as a Tata Nano. And after 3 years, that Ford was fully worn out and would cost as much to refresh as buying new.
You can also get some formaldehyde - it will preserve you and let you live longer :shades: I wonder what is emitted when the plastics in cars from that area go through the outgassing stage.
Downward mobility is the new reality. It will happen for both real world and public sector workers. For the overall labor force, declining real incomes and benefits say it all.
I have a friend who prefers public sector work...he got out of school with a planning degree, worked for county government - whined about low pay, so he went to private sector where he made a lot more, but had to work more. He tired of that, got a city job - as he would joke, 80% of the pay for 60% of the work. When the economy tanked, he was let go, because as typical for that part of the working world, tenure determined cuts and he was in the newest 10%. Oh well. I've told him he'd be wise not to count on any pensions he's accumulated from that sector....and it might not be wise to have others know you are collecting said pension.
No offense meant, but I do not care about personal anecdotes too.
Then why should we care about yours?
I have a friend who prefers public sector work...he got out of school with a planning degree, worked for county government - whined about low pay, so he went to private sector where he made a lot more, but had to work more. He tired of that, got a city job - as he would joke, 80% of the pay for 60% of the work. When the economy tanked, he was let go, because as typical for that part of the working world, tenure determined cuts and he was in the newest 10%. Oh well. I've told him he'd be wise not to count on any pensions he's accumulated from that sector....and it might not be wise to have others know you are collecting said pension.
I am surprised some carmakers haven't tried that already...mind altering chemicals that can make people feel positive. You might be able to make some money from this idea... :shades:
Of course, if it sells cars that already generate a loss...maybe not.
Well, look at some of the grotesque colors and interiors cars had in the1970s. It was probably a result of the fallout from all the drugs consumed in the 1960s.
Well, look at some of the grotesque colors and interiors cars had in the1970s.
Unfortunately that wasn't limited to automobiles. I've seen pictures of myself as a kid and wondered "what the hell am I wearing, and what god awful color is that couch".
Baldwin did transition to building diesel locomotives, but they got a late start and were crushed out of the market by the Electro-Motive division of (drum roll)... General Motors.
Baldwin folded in '72, the same year Morrison-Knutson started a rail division out here in Boise. Cheaper utilities too I bet.
And they still make and refurbish locomotives here. 2,000 American locomotives to date (and yes, this is a right to work state, unlike Pennsylvania).
In what does it mean news, "demonstrating again that it is a major engine in the economy, the auto industry garnered credited for pushing U.S. industrial production higher in July."
I still have an old Lazy boy recliner from the early 70's, that belonged to my great-aunt. It's velour, roughly the shade of green you'd see on a 1973 era GM car, and has the tufted buttons, like an Oldsmobile 98 or Chrysler New Yorker. And the fake woodgrain on the plastic lever that flips the footrest out just screams seventies.
It's actually one of the more tasteful pieces of 70's furniture I've seen, though!
Don't give them any ideas. Each car would also be equipped with a British-made Orwellcam so a federally-employed operator could ensure you are observing the laws, and can aim the proper chemicals through the vents at the right time :shades:
I do notice some cars have a distinct smell inside...IIRC Lexus has a smell to it, and MB sure does. I assume a new Camry smells like a plain rice cake and tap water inside.
I loved my grandparents' '72 Impala 4-door hardtop. It was a pretty tasteful color though....Sequoia green with a white vinyl roof, and a green cloth (jacquard or brocade or whatever they called that stuff) interior.
When I was a kid, I wanted that car, and asked them to hold onto it until I turned 16 so it could be my first car. But even back then, I remember Granddad saying the car probably wouldn't last that long! As it was it made it to around 1982, when they sold it to some friends for $600. It was still running well, but was getting pretty rusty, and the top was shredding.
How did those interiors wear? I remember seeing a low mileage 65 Caprice when I was younger, silver with black brocade interior...it was very cool in almost a gothic kind of way.
My only real 70s car memory is the T-Bird my mother had when I was little - white on white. I can't imagine it ever looked clean. Great choice. I do remember it was huge, good to sleep in, and had fun to play with (and drain the battery) power equipment. With the 460 probably got 10 mpg in town. It was sold to a friend of the family, and I remember by the time the car was 10 or so years old, it was looking pretty sad. Cars hold up so much better today.
I can't remember if that interior ever tore or not. You'd think it would be pretty fragile, though. When I see survivors with that type of material, it looks like something that would start coming apart pretty easily once something snagged on it. It also seems fairly prone to sun-fade and dry-rotting.
I looked at a white '72 Impala convertible in late '91 that was for sale at a used car lot near the University of Md. White vinyl interior, although the dash and carpet were brown. It had a 350-2bbl. I liked the car, but it had some issues. I was quoted $1995, but they couldn't find the key to the trunk, and I wanted to see in there. Came back the next day, and suddenly they were wanting $2500, and when they found the trunk key, I could see how both rear quarters had been extensively patched.
Still would've made a cool beater to drive around in, I guess. And I ended up, a few months later, with a '68 Dart that I paid $1700 for...and had rear quarters that had been patched!
Yeah those 70's cars tended to rust quick. Fords seemed particularly bad. My dad had a 73 torino that has basically rusted out by 79 and the vinyl top was peeling off. IIRC it was a like a burnt orange color. I still can recall the Ziebart rust treatment, i wonder if they are still around.
You were a year ahead of me. But my first house did have orange shag carpeting.
Buying American means buying Chinese engines?
"GM and its strategic partners produce cars and trucks in 31 countries, and sell and service these vehicles through the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, Jiefang, Opel, Vauxhall and Wuling. GM's largest national market is China"
I live/lived in an area where rust is a lot less common...but cars still suffered from fall-apart a lot more than in the past decade. I also remember a friend's dad had a 76 Elite, bought new...by 1987 it was ready for the junkyard, it got rusty and generally just decomposed.
Ziebart...when I was little, my uncle had a Datsun 810 wagon with Ziebart treatment, I remember the logo/sticker, had a knight's helmet or something.
Ziebart...when I was little, my uncle had a Datsun 810 wagon with Ziebart treatment, I remember the logo/sticker, had a knight's helmet or something.
Yeah it was a shield or something like that. My first car was a 75 Buick Regal that my grandpa gave me in '87 when I received my licenses. It had the Ziebart treatment and was actually in good shape. But, it had spent most of it's winters in Florida instead of the salt infested roads in northern Indiana.
It looks fragile, but every example I have seen in a decent original car has held up pretty well.
Probably 15 years later, that Caprice sticks in my head. Completely loaded 4 door HT, silver on black, 396, ac, power everything, something like 50K miles on it, spotless. I think they wanted 5 or 6K for it.
The Datsun came out of Kansas. It was probably only like a 5 year old car at the time...I don't remember any rust issues on it, but I do remember it had a big dash crack already. Japanese interiors 30 years ago...
Comments
Baldwin only built steam locomotives, didn't they? Or did they ever make the jump to diesel/electric?
No they don't, probably 1/2, but they put out nearly as much steel. Most of the jobs were cut in the early 80's. My FIL was laid off for 2 years from 81-83 or so from the mill he worked at.
Most of the communities have survived intact. Though Gary is a hell hole, but it's been that way since the early 70's. Most of my family and friends still live in NW Indiana and they are all working with good jobs in nice communities. Most of them don't have degrees either.
Nope, I'm guessing that's why they were done building locomotives in the 50's and out of business in the early 70's. Actually, I think they did build some diesels, but they weren't competitive.
Before that, the three new cars she had, a 1966 Catalina, 1975 LeMans, and 1980 Malibu, she paid cash for. Well, with the Catalina, she saved up half, borrowed the other half from an aunt, and then paid that aunt back.
All the cars since that Monte have been financed, too...'91 Stanza, '98 Expedition, '99 Altima, '02 F-150, '08 Altima. Kinda funny how, even though they were better off financially as the years went by, they were more and more willing to finance. I think they usually got a pretty good rate, though.
I financed my 2000 Intrepid for 60 months. The rate was 0.9%, so no incentive to pay it off early.
But then, I've also known people with bad credit, who have taken out loans of 20% or more for a used car! OUCH!
Yep, still there. I have a couple of HS buddies that are crane operators there. But I guarantee very few if any who work at the plant live in Gary.
Yeah, Joe Jackson worked there at one time.
Budd got their start building steel bodies for the automakers in the 1920s, but when the autos brought that work in-house Budd turned to building railroad passenger cars for a few decades. The railroad passenger car market dwindled down to practically nothing beginning in the mid-1950s, and Budd never found another line of work to keep the business going and shut down in the '80s.
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/b/budd/budd.htm
And it's been that way for as long as I can remember. My grandparents moved out of Gary in '77 and they were the last of their friends to leave.
Indeed it does!
I have a friend who prefers public sector work...he got out of school with a planning degree, worked for county government - whined about low pay, so he went to private sector where he made a lot more, but had to work more. He tired of that, got a city job - as he would joke, 80% of the pay for 60% of the work. When the economy tanked, he was let go, because as typical for that part of the working world, tenure determined cuts and he was in the newest 10%. Oh well. I've told him he'd be wise not to count on any pensions he's accumulated from that sector....and it might not be wise to have others know you are collecting said pension.
Maybe GM could simpy include some reefers in the glovebox of each new Malibu?
Then why should we care about yours?
I have a friend who prefers public sector work...he got out of school with a planning degree, worked for county government - whined about low pay, so he went to private sector where he made a lot more, but had to work more. He tired of that, got a city job - as he would joke, 80% of the pay for 60% of the work. When the economy tanked, he was let go, because as typical for that part of the working world, tenure determined cuts and he was in the newest 10%. Oh well. I've told him he'd be wise not to count on any pensions he's accumulated from that sector....and it might not be wise to have others know you are collecting said pension.
I couldn't care less about your opinion of what I direct to someone else. You don't have to care about my anecdotes, no skin off my back. Thanks.
Of course, if it sells cars that already generate a loss...maybe not.
Oh, come on, I was just trying to have a little fun. I do enjoy the debate, so I'll try to be more civil.
That sounds like something the government would love. Oh, oh! We'll all be driving Cruzes within a few years and smiling;)
"She might not be much to look at now, but ya shoulda seen her when I was drinkin'!"
Unfortunately that wasn't limited to automobiles. I've seen pictures of myself as a kid and wondered "what the hell am I wearing, and what god awful color is that couch".
.
Baldwin folded in '72, the same year Morrison-Knutson started a rail division out here in Boise. Cheaper utilities too I bet.
And they still make and refurbish locomotives here. 2,000 American locomotives to date (and yes, this is a right to work state, unlike Pennsylvania).
In what does it mean news, "demonstrating again that it is a major engine in the economy, the auto industry garnered credited for pushing U.S. industrial production higher in July."
Auto Industry Drives U.S. Factory Output Higher in July (AutoObserver)
It's actually one of the more tasteful pieces of 70's furniture I've seen, though!
The 70s on the other hand.... I think I still see avocado refridgerators in my dreams...
I do notice some cars have a distinct smell inside...IIRC Lexus has a smell to it, and MB sure does. I assume a new Camry smells like a plain rice cake and tap water inside.
I think a 70s slogan for some models must have been "any color you want, as long as it's brown"...about 50 variations of the color.
When I was a kid, I wanted that car, and asked them to hold onto it until I turned 16 so it could be my first car. But even back then, I remember Granddad saying the car probably wouldn't last that long! As it was it made it to around 1982, when they sold it to some friends for $600. It was still running well, but was getting pretty rusty, and the top was shredding.
My only real 70s car memory is the T-Bird my mother had when I was little - white on white. I can't imagine it ever looked clean. Great choice. I do remember it was huge, good to sleep in, and had fun to play with (and drain the battery) power equipment. With the 460 probably got 10 mpg in town. It was sold to a friend of the family, and I remember by the time the car was 10 or so years old, it was looking pretty sad. Cars hold up so much better today.
Still would've made a cool beater to drive around in, I guess. And I ended up, a few months later, with a '68 Dart that I paid $1700 for...and had rear quarters that had been patched!
Yeah, they were rust buckets. That's what did in dad's Impala.
Fondue pots!
Sex, love, sin, wine, we're the Class of '69.
You were a year ahead of me. But my first house did have orange shag carpeting.
Buying American means buying Chinese engines?
"GM and its strategic partners produce cars and trucks in 31 countries, and sell and service these vehicles through the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, Jiefang, Opel, Vauxhall and Wuling. GM's largest national market is China"
GM and China's SAIC Motor Announce Joint Powertrain Development (Edmunds Daily)
Ziebart...when I was little, my uncle had a Datsun 810 wagon with Ziebart treatment, I remember the logo/sticker, had a knight's helmet or something.
Yeah it was a shield or something like that. My first car was a 75 Buick Regal that my grandpa gave me in '87 when I received my licenses. It had the Ziebart treatment and was actually in good shape. But, it had spent most of it's winters in Florida instead of the salt infested roads in northern Indiana.
Probably 15 years later, that Caprice sticks in my head. Completely loaded 4 door HT, silver on black, 396, ac, power everything, something like 50K miles on it, spotless. I think they wanted 5 or 6K for it.