long ago, I would bet that some towns that built up over gold mining also shriveled up and died when the mining boom was over...
Nowadays though, there's a lot more cost and investment tied up when an industry closes and the surrounding area shrivels up.
For instance, up north of Frederick, MD, there used to be a charcoal-powered furnace operation that smelted pig iron. The forests of the nearby Catoctin Mountains were regularly harvested to make charcoal. In 1873, they switched over to regular coal, and the whole charcoal industry of the area died off.
The people that made the charcoal, delivered the charcoal, etc, had to find other lines of work. However, back then, there wasn't much infrastructure in place. The colliers lived in huts that were teepee shaped, with logs stacked up, and a little stone hearth in one corner. The roads were just dirt roads, and the charcoal was delivered on wooden sled, pulled by mules.
So, nobody really had much invested in the way of utilities, roads, permanent structures, etc. It was easy to just pack up what little you had and move on to where the work was, and let nature reclaim the land.
Nowadays though, state and local governments spend countless amounts of money trying to provide for roads, utilities, schools, etc. And the buildings of today are much more substantial than those little shacks and colliers huts of yesterday.
While you and I might not feel personally affected by these dying cities such as Detroit, Youngstown, etc, I'm sure that in some ways we have. I'd imagine those cities have soaked up a lot of federal funds on their downward spiral, and when the people get laid off and don't find new jobs, they end up on the public dole, costing everybody money.
It's just not that easy to pack up and leave these days, like it was in the old days. If I lost my job and the local economy tanked, meaning my house was suddenly worthless and the only work I could find was hundreds of miles away, it would be devastating. I'd get through it, but it would still be a major setback. Much worse than just throwing my belongings on my mule's back and leaving the collier's hut to return to nature, or, in later years, packing what little I had onto a worthless 20 year old Cadillac that had been converted into a flatbed truck, and hoping I make it from the Dustbowl to the Land of Fruits and Nuts.
Yes, it can be done. But it ain't so easy to just pack up and leave.
Talk about 'entitlement mentality'--you're probably a proponent of affirmative action too.
As with everything, it's all about balance and not lopsided-ness.
Uhhh...What was that you were saying about other's "enlightenment"????
What about that "all things in moderation" philosophy you're always barking about when its in your interest to do so, yet how you ignore it when its to your disadvantage.
Then why have foreign companies located plants in "backwards" areas where they are given huge amounts of subsidies at state taxpayer and other's expense?
Exactly, they were given huge subsidies to go there and it's been well documented about the issues Mercedes had with the work force in Alabama.
So you are saying people in Detroit don't have a HS diploma? Or Youngstown? Or Dayton? That's bordering on ignorant.
Well, if your read my post, I didn't say no one had a diploma. Look at the HS graduation rates for cities like Detroit, Youngstown, Indianapolis etc. Many are under 50%. That's a huge problem and ignoring them is what is ignorant.
I believe these kids who drop out have very little support from their parents vis-a-vis education. The kids perceive very little value in education when people with graduate degrees can't find work. The kids see the guy with a Master's degree working at Burger King and the corner drug dealer with a 10th grade education with the flashy car, hot women, wads of cash, and blingy jewelry.
Also, where would you go? Things are tough all over!
That depends on your field. My BIL was laid off as a residential construction project manager in Florida in Nov. '08. He found a better paying job with as a project manager in commercial construction in Kansas City within a few months. The bad news he hasn't been able to sell the house in FL, so he's renting a house while still paying a mortgage.
Several industries are reporting shortages of skilled employees. I'm sure the housing fiasco is making it heard for people to relocate.
My wife still gets mailers in the mail asking her if she wants a job from all over the country and some still offering sign on bonuses. We still get head hunters calling wanting to talk to her. Certain skill sets are definitely in high demand.
The kids see the guy with an Master's degree working at Burger King and the corner drug dealer with a 10th grade education with the flashy car, hot women, wads of cash, and blingy jewelry.
Whether we like it or not, THAT has become the "graduate degree" in many major inner-cities.
Its off-topic, but still related.... The US has has an absolute failure in its anti-drug policies. Billions of $$$ have been spent on big-ticket items such as drug-interdiction helicopters and hi-tech gear, but little has been done to really understand how to decrease the demand for these drugs. There's always a supply if the demand is great enough. Its all about the cost...
Simply locking up users has solved nothing, other than create many prison guard jobs (at low pay).
There... I have said my 2 cents worth on that subject.
The kids see the guy with a Master's degree working at Burger King
Now that's an exaggeration. I guess a masters degree isn't what is used to be as when I go to BK or any fast food places, most at the register still have trouble making change. I certainly haven't noticed an improvement in the level of talent in those positions.
I believe these kids who drop out have very little support from their parents vis-a-vis education.
Thats definitely true. My sister teaches in the Kansas City schools and her stories about her students is really sad.
What are these industries with shortages of employees? I see one poster mentioned a shortage of skilled machinists.
Medical and some parts of tech. My college friends with programming degrees are all still doing well and getting random offers. My wife has an RX license and while it has slowed down some, she still gets inquires every month or so down from weekly a few years ago.
I've read articles and my friend that owns a machine shop has confirmed that it's hard to find machinists.
>Look at the HS graduation rates for cities like Detroit, Youngstown, Indianapolis etc
So SC and AL in the areas where the plants were built in the last many years have a higher rate of literacy and high school graduations?
I recall my first drive to SC 40 years ago. My buddy was in the Navy and I drove down during college breaks. They used to have 3 rest rooms at the gas stations...
High school graduation rate is about 90% for Dayton City schools; that's fairly good. This is based on the documentation methods for the Ohio Department of Education as part of the No Child Left behind that President Bush/Kennedy put into effect.
>about the issues Mercedes had with the work force in Alabama.
Was that because they gained in knowledge and learned about the higher pay unions would have gotten for them? :P but Mercedes loves those uneducated workers. Well, loves them as long as they're nonunion and they can pay them less.
Is it the unions you are actually disliking and hiding that under the disguise of "uneducated workers in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc.? Workers in other states and the areas in which plants were sited are certain weak under the same assessment you're using.
Yes...all foreign manufacturer's plants don't need to be in the south. That's all I'm saying and nothing more.
Again, it's all about where you live. I live in OH. My guess is that "bumpy" doesn't live in the north or midwest. That would explain his/her opinion very clearly.
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I'm surprised to see programming is still strong. I thought that all got shipped off to Bangladore a long time ago. You'd think there would be a lot of old guys to fill those machinist positions after they were laid off from all the old manufacturing plants.
Philadelphia's SEPTA system had to import passenger rail cars from Hyundai to replace the old ones built by Budd in Philadelphia. Even if we tried to once again build rail cars in Philly, we'd have a labor shortage as none have been built here since the 1980s when Budd shut down its massive plant on Red Lion Road in the Northeast and later it's colossal plant on Hunting Park Avenue in North Philly in the early 1990s. Rail car building is a now lost art in the city that once built them as well as locomotives. A golf course now occupies the site of the Red Lion Road plant and Hunting Park is now a gigantic pigeon loft.
I remember those Mercedes SUV's that were built in Alabama were rated the worst (most troubleprone) vehicles available for sale in the U.S. by CR at the time.
But, being Benz, of course, it seems like their reputation took no hit.
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Medical and some parts of tech. My college friends with programming degrees are all still doing well and getting random offers. My wife has an RX license and while it has slowed down some, she still gets inquires every month or so down from weekly a few years ago.
I have a cousin who graduated from nursing school a couple months ago. I always thought that was an in-demand field, but she's had trouble finding a job. So far, she's only gotten two leads. One is working at a prison, and the other is working in a psycho ward! And the only reason the psycho ward job came up was because her boyfriend's mother was able to pull some strings!
Needless to say, she's taking the job at the prison. At least at the prison, they have guards around whenever you interact with the patients. At the psycho ward, you're kinda on your own, and a few nurses have been stabbed with needles, shivs, etc.
I'm surprised to see programming is still strong. I thought that all got shipped off to Bangladore a long time ago. You'd think there would be a lot of old guys to fill those machinist positions after they were laid off from all the old manufacturing plants
You'd think, but maybe they haven't updated their skills or maybe they don't want to move, or just plain retired.
As for programing. Obviously some has been outsourced but my friends that are in software development (several) still tell me that there is demand for people in programing tech and computer science here in the states.
I have a cousin who graduated from nursing school a couple months ago.
I thought nursing was in demand too. But it's not universal. I know with pharmacists, some areas have to many and others places still have a severe shortage.
>I always thought that was an in-demand field, but she's had trouble finding a job.
Ten years ago there were ads in the newspaper for job fairs at the hospitals and for bonuses for signing on as an experienced nurse and staying a certain length of time.
Those seem to have disappeared.
I do know the son of a coworkers started into Premed at a private Ohio school and didn't want the full road and became a male nurse. After graduation he entered a program where he has moved from hospital to hospital around the West. Essentially, he's a trauma room nurse and a nurse practioner level. He's in a training pattern after graduation where he spends a few months at each hospital and jumps to another for experience in various departments.
That level of nursing skill is in demand.
Displaced and laidoff workers in a manufacturing city like Dayton aren't as lucky. He's single, unattached, and free to move easily. When a company discriminates against your area because it had lots of union employees, the choices aren't as easy.
To really succeed in IT, you have to live it. It isn't just a job, it's a lifestyle. You have to totally immerse yourself in computer science. Each and every aspect of your life has to be dedicated to IT. School and training are never-ending. The person just looking for a pay check is going to wash out and soon become obsolete.
Then why have foreign companies located plants in "backwards" areas where they are given huge amounts of subsidies at state taxpayer and other's expense?
Exactly, they were given huge subsidies to go there and it's been well documented about the issues Mercedes had with the work force in Alabama.
So you are saying people in Detroit don't have a HS diploma? Or Youngstown? Or Dayton? That's bordering on ignorant.
Well, if your read my post, I didn't say no one had a diploma. Look at the HS graduation rates for cities like Detroit, Youngstown, Indianapolis etc. Many are under 50%. That's a huge problem and ignoring them is what is ignorant.
Again, let's not start painting with such a broad brush.
Yes, the MB Alabama plant and the Dell NC plants haven't been icons of success by anyone's imagination, but many of these plants have worked out quite well. I've not read anything of substance (negative) about the BMW, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai or Honda plants, and they used the same methods.
Also, remember the Saturn plant that GM located in Tennessee, so it isn't just foreign companies that do this sort of thing. In fact, the "manufacturing" states also employ this method. Why wouldn't they???
The problem I personally have with incentive "pushes" is that they are usually secretive, and that aspect very rarely works out in the taxpayer's best interests. IMO, all of theses incentive plans should be open for public inspection before being offered. That would put a lot of pressure on legislators to reel in the "shopping" many (all) of these companies are doing when searching for new sites.
Select the site because its the best site, not because the site has the best "no-tax" deal being offered.
Is it the unions you are actually disliking and hiding that under the disguise of "uneducated workers in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc.?
I don't think it's any surprise that I don't have any love for unions. I've been a union member and I've been on the other side managing a union workforce. No thanks, I personally would try to avoid a union on either side of that equation.
I'm not picking on any one state or area. MB, and Nissan both put plants in the south because they were able to get $$ and not have to deal with a union. I've read articles on both places having issues with poorly educated workers. Both have also had quality issues to show for it too.
To really succeed in IT, you have to live it. It isn't just a job, it's a lifestyle. You have to totally immerse yourself in computer science. Each and every aspect of your life has to be dedicated to IT. School and training are never-ending. The person just looking for a pay check is going to wash out and soon become obsolete.
I would say that is becoming the norm in most industries. Simply getting a degree and then never upgrading one's education from then on is a sure ticket to failure.
The medical, film-making, engineering and educational fields all require continuing education, and its not limited to those fields.
In the modern world, over a typical 40 year work lifespan, some really substantial changes occur nowadays.
I had a friend who had a job in a psycho hospital. This crazy lady practically julienned his face with a broken piece of glass. Anything can set them off from an off-color joke to something on TV.
Philadelphia's SEPTA system had to import passenger rail cars from Hyundai to replace the old ones built by Budd in Philadelphia. Even if we tried to once again build rail cars in Philly, we'd have a labor shortage as none have been built here since the 1980s when Budd shut down its massive plant on Red Lion Road in the Northeast and later it's colossal plant on Hunting Park Avenue in North Philly in the early 1990s. Rail car building is a now lost art in the city that once built them as well as locomotives. A golf course now occupies the site of the Red Lion Road plant and Hunting Park is now a gigantic pigeon loft.
A lot of this happened as a direct result of the US government making the choice (read: lobbied) to support air transportation over rail transportation. The true amount of $$$ given to passenger rail pales in comparason to the $$$$$$$$$ given the aerospace/airplane manufacturing industry.
Frankly, there's no reason why the USA shouldn't be the world leader in high-speed rail technology and manufacturing, but it isn't. And we will probably never be competitive in that field again.
>Select the site because its the best site, not because the site has the best "no-tax" deal being offered.
Beyond that good point, the location chosen shouldn't be because of the most hidden subsidy, beyond no taxes, given.
>remember the Saturn plant that GM located in Tennessee,
I understand your point, but I feel Spring Hill, TN, isn't as desolate as it was presented; it's near Nashville. And Nashville has sustained a Nissan plant and even the Nissan offices are located there now.
Yes, they were terrible but those troubleprone ML classes were also extremely capable and far ahead of any of it's competition save the Land Rovers and Land Cruisers of the market.. The design was there, it was the QC dept. that failed.
Also, you probably wouldn't know this (since your biases are pretty clear) but Mercedes quality reputation took a big hit in the last decade, something which they are still trying to recover from.
No manufacturer is immune to criticism when they let their product go to hell. :sick:
Thank you for being able to admit that MB built a crappy vehicle.
Actually, Chrysler people have said for years that "the merger of equals" resulted in Chrysler quality being dragged down by Benz. Of course, the Teutonic state of mind in Stuttgart isn't able to concede any of that...the problems were all Chrysler.
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There was a huge collapse in MB quality for platforms dating from the time of that merger, especially the W163 (ML) and W220 (2000 S-class). Early versions of the W203 (2001-07 C-class) can also be troublesome. It's not a coincidence. The Germans got in over their heads and went into a panic, which caused shoddy decision making. History repeats itself. Quality of most cars produced from around 1998-2003 or so was sharply lower too, to the point where in most cases I wouldn't go near a non-AMG version. Chrysler certainly didn't help MB quality wise, DBAG lost their shirt in the deal. MB got to loot a little, and Chrysler got some modern platforms - but they wouldn't do it again if given the chance.
Funny that the old Axis nations have combined to pretty much destroy old Allied automotive industries, or at best where they have survived (not in England), make them wards of the state (USA, France).
Yeah, the hvac controls have developed a mind of it's own. blower is always on high and i can't shut it off or slow it down. Being that it has auto controls, it probably won't be cheap.
My wife still gets mailers in the mail asking her if she wants a job from all over the country and some still offering sign on bonuses. We still get head hunters calling wanting to talk to her. Certain skill sets are definitely in high demand.
There must be a way she can parlay this into a better company car....
Say hi to the Ford mechanic for me. When i had the Windstall I wrote him off as a dependent.
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uplanderguy: But, being Benz, of course, it seems like their reputation took no hit.
I can't buy that. The slide in quality was reflected in survey results published in Consumer Reports and widely reported in the media. Mercedes-Benz has lost the reputation for rock-solid reliability and build quality it enjoyed through the mid-1990s. The main reason Lexus hasn't completely eaten its lunch is that a Lexus looks a like an overgrown Toyota, while a Mercedes looks like a...Mercedes. Plus, the performance and styling of the vehicles are still excellent.
But even people I know who aren't that much into cars are wary of Mercedes reliability (actually, they are concerned about European cars in general). It helps that many of these cars are leased as opposed to being bought outright. Many people lease them, and turn them in as soon as the lease is up.
People forget that Cadillac didn't implode over night. It had been sliding for years (since 1971, in my estimation) when the you-know-what really hit the fan in the early 1980s with the diesels, V4-6-8 engines, early versions of the 4100 V-8, and overly drastic downsizing. Not only was the reliability really bad, but the performance was pathetic, and workmanship wasn't much better than what you got in an Oldsmobile or Buick. And when a 1986 Eldorado or Seville looks like a gilded Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais...well, that is the final blow.
Mercedes shot itself in the foot; GM shot Cadillac right in the heart, and then ran over the barely breathing corpse for good measure. Quite frankly, it's a miracle that Cadillac is still alive and able to build upon the foundation provided by the CTS and Escalade.
I think for people like all of us who follow the industry, we know that Benz's reputation for quality took a hit. But for the "great unwashed", people I talk to look surprised when I tell them that Benzes of a good seven or eight model years weren't that great. But to a one, they'll tell you about how bad domestic cars are.
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In fact, over Labor Day weekend I drove an old friend's 2005 Benz sedan, but I can't remember their silly-a** numbering system...but it was a large one that he said would've been like $95K when new (he bought it used...er, 'pre-owned'). It was tight, but honest-to-God I thought it had a second-gear start. And I drive an Uplander and a Cobalt! I had to really push hard on the gas to get it to go fast. And frankly all the electronic gadgetry is a turnoff to me, but I'd feel the same way in a domestic luxury car I guess.
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I didn't notice if it still had one windshield wiper. That always cracked me up. I used to say, "Gee, if you spent $50K for a car, you'd think you'd get two wipers!"
I know, the argument will be that it gives a more uninterrupted sweep of the windshield, but I don't know how at all it could clean as fast as two.
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Some models do have second gear start. MB is also notorious for a hard throttle - you have to put some effort into yout foot to make the pedal move, it's been that way in every one I've driven. You get used to it, and I find it provides a lot more input control than overly sensitive throttles. It also makes flooring it more dramatic and fun :shades: The car you drove sounds like a W220 S-class, probably S500 but maybe a lesser model.
IIRC the last single wiper car was for MY 2003, the last of the CLK cabrios. I don't think it really offered anything superior, just an attempt at different tech...MB did use it in various cars for over 20 years, so it must not have been too bad. It's also fun to watch. If you want to see weird, look at a 90s S-class - the wipers are backward for a LHD car.
I think for people like all of us who follow the industry, we know that Benz's reputation for quality took a hit. But for the "great unwashed", people I talk to look surprised when I tell them that Benzes of a good seven or eight model years weren't that great. But to a one, they'll tell you about how bad domestic cars are.
I would say that ideology runs the gambit accross the board, from cars to TV's, appliances, HVAC systems, etc..... Anything that someone spent a considerable amount of $$$ on buying.
In the general mix, few are very willing to admit that bought a "lemon", regardless what the product might be.
On the other hand, the same holds true for companies' products that we have had a bad experience owning. And, I'm no different.
I refuse to buy anything with an LG label due to bad personal experiences with LG phones, an LG TV, and a couple of other LG products.
Rationally, I understand that LG couldn't survive if all their production was like what I owned, but frankly, I just got tired of being the "lucky" one to get all the "rejects".
One nned to look no futher that Edmunds' forums to see this. Go to the thread that covers the "great" car you drive and wonder how anyone could possibly be having the issues they are experiencing, especially when you have 100K+ miles without a single problem.
Viewpoint applies here as well. I once worked with a guy that, it seemed on a monthly basis, would ask me to pick him up from the dealer's repair shop for the brand car he drove. To hear him talk, it was the best make/model ever made, totally trouble free. To his co-workers, he was living on another planet.
I didn't notice if it still had one windshield wiper. That always cracked me up. I used to say, "Gee, if you spent $50K for a car, you'd think you'd get two wipers!"
I know, the argument will be that it gives a more uninterrupted sweep of the windshield, but I don't know how at all it could clean as fast as two.
In its defense, it moves really fast!
But, I don't like it, either. My daughter used to call the models with the single wiper a "karate-mo-bile", because of how fast it was and the jerking-movements it made in its path across the windscreen.
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Nowadays though, there's a lot more cost and investment tied up when an industry closes and the surrounding area shrivels up.
For instance, up north of Frederick, MD, there used to be a charcoal-powered furnace operation that smelted pig iron. The forests of the nearby Catoctin Mountains were regularly harvested to make charcoal. In 1873, they switched over to regular coal, and the whole charcoal industry of the area died off.
The people that made the charcoal, delivered the charcoal, etc, had to find other lines of work. However, back then, there wasn't much infrastructure in place. The colliers lived in huts that were teepee shaped, with logs stacked up, and a little stone hearth in one corner. The roads were just dirt roads, and the charcoal was delivered on wooden sled, pulled by mules.
So, nobody really had much invested in the way of utilities, roads, permanent structures, etc. It was easy to just pack up what little you had and move on to where the work was, and let nature reclaim the land.
Nowadays though, state and local governments spend countless amounts of money trying to provide for roads, utilities, schools, etc. And the buildings of today are much more substantial than those little shacks and colliers huts of yesterday.
While you and I might not feel personally affected by these dying cities such as Detroit, Youngstown, etc, I'm sure that in some ways we have. I'd imagine those cities have soaked up a lot of federal funds on their downward spiral, and when the people get laid off and don't find new jobs, they end up on the public dole, costing everybody money.
It's just not that easy to pack up and leave these days, like it was in the old days. If I lost my job and the local economy tanked, meaning my house was suddenly worthless and the only work I could find was hundreds of miles away, it would be devastating. I'd get through it, but it would still be a major setback. Much worse than just throwing my belongings on my mule's back and leaving the collier's hut to return to nature, or, in later years, packing what little I had onto a worthless 20 year old Cadillac that had been converted into a flatbed truck, and hoping I make it from the Dustbowl to the Land of Fruits and Nuts.
Yes, it can be done. But it ain't so easy to just pack up and leave.
As with everything, it's all about balance and not lopsided-ness.
Uhhh...What was that you were saying about other's "enlightenment"????
What about that "all things in moderation" philosophy you're always barking about when its in your interest to do so, yet how you ignore it when its to your disadvantage.
Exactly, they were given huge subsidies to go there and it's been well documented about the issues Mercedes had with the work force in Alabama.
So you are saying people in Detroit don't have a HS diploma? Or Youngstown? Or Dayton? That's bordering on ignorant.
Well, if your read my post, I didn't say no one had a diploma. Look at the HS graduation rates for cities like Detroit, Youngstown, Indianapolis etc. Many are under 50%. That's a huge problem and ignoring them is what is ignorant.
That depends on your field. My BIL was laid off as a residential construction project manager in Florida in Nov. '08. He found a better paying job with as a project manager in commercial construction in Kansas City within a few months. The bad news he hasn't been able to sell the house in FL, so he's renting a house while still paying a mortgage.
Several industries are reporting shortages of skilled employees. I'm sure the housing fiasco is making it heard for people to relocate.
My wife still gets mailers in the mail asking her if she wants a job from all over the country and some still offering sign on bonuses. We still get head hunters calling wanting to talk to her. Certain skill sets are definitely in high demand.
Whether we like it or not, THAT has become the "graduate degree" in many major inner-cities.
Its off-topic, but still related.... The US has has an absolute failure in its anti-drug policies. Billions of $$$ have been spent on big-ticket items such as drug-interdiction helicopters and hi-tech gear, but little has been done to really understand how to decrease the demand for these drugs. There's always a supply if the demand is great enough. Its all about the cost...
Simply locking up users has solved nothing, other than create many prison guard jobs (at low pay).
There... I have said my 2 cents worth on that subject.
Now that's an exaggeration. I guess a masters degree isn't what is used to be as when I go to BK or any fast food places, most at the register still have trouble making change. I certainly haven't noticed an improvement in the level of talent in those positions.
I believe these kids who drop out have very little support from their parents vis-a-vis education.
Thats definitely true. My sister teaches in the Kansas City schools and her stories about her students is really sad.
Medical and some parts of tech. My college friends with programming degrees are all still doing well and getting random offers. My wife has an RX license and while it has slowed down some, she still gets inquires every month or so down from weekly a few years ago.
I've read articles and my friend that owns a machine shop has confirmed that it's hard to find machinists.
So SC and AL in the areas where the plants were built in the last many years have a higher rate of literacy and high school graduations?
I recall my first drive to SC 40 years ago. My buddy was in the Navy and I drove down during college breaks. They used to have 3 rest rooms at the gas stations...
High school graduation rate is about 90% for Dayton City schools; that's fairly good. This is based on the documentation methods for the Ohio Department of Education as part of the No Child Left behind that President Bush/Kennedy put into effect.
>about the issues Mercedes had with the work force in Alabama.
Was that because they gained in knowledge and learned about the higher pay unions would have gotten for them? :P but Mercedes loves those uneducated workers. Well, loves them as long as they're nonunion and they can pay them less.
Is it the unions you are actually disliking and hiding that under the disguise of "uneducated workers in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc.? Workers in other states and the areas in which plants were sited are certain weak under the same assessment you're using.
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Yes...all foreign manufacturer's plants don't need to be in the south. That's all I'm saying and nothing more.
Again, it's all about where you live. I live in OH. My guess is that "bumpy" doesn't live in the north or midwest. That would explain his/her opinion very clearly.
Philadelphia's SEPTA system had to import passenger rail cars from Hyundai to replace the old ones built by Budd in Philadelphia. Even if we tried to once again build rail cars in Philly, we'd have a labor shortage as none have been built here since the 1980s when Budd shut down its massive plant on Red Lion Road in the Northeast and later it's colossal plant on Hunting Park Avenue in North Philly in the early 1990s. Rail car building is a now lost art in the city that once built them as well as locomotives. A golf course now occupies the site of the Red Lion Road plant and Hunting Park is now a gigantic pigeon loft.
But, being Benz, of course, it seems like their reputation took no hit.
I have a cousin who graduated from nursing school a couple months ago. I always thought that was an in-demand field, but she's had trouble finding a job. So far, she's only gotten two leads. One is working at a prison, and the other is working in a psycho ward! And the only reason the psycho ward job came up was because her boyfriend's mother was able to pull some strings!
Needless to say, she's taking the job at the prison. At least at the prison, they have guards around whenever you interact with the patients. At the psycho ward, you're kinda on your own, and a few nurses have been stabbed with needles, shivs, etc.
You'd think, but maybe they haven't updated their skills or maybe they don't want to move, or just plain retired.
As for programing. Obviously some has been outsourced but my friends that are in software development (several) still tell me that there is demand for people in programing tech and computer science here in the states.
I thought nursing was in demand too. But it's not universal. I know with pharmacists, some areas have to many and others places still have a severe shortage.
Ten years ago there were ads in the newspaper for job fairs at the hospitals and for bonuses for signing on as an experienced nurse and staying a certain length of time.
Those seem to have disappeared.
I do know the son of a coworkers started into Premed at a private Ohio school and didn't want the full road and became a male nurse. After graduation he entered a program where he has moved from hospital to hospital around the West. Essentially, he's a trauma room nurse and a nurse practioner level. He's in a training pattern after graduation where he spends a few months at each hospital and jumps to another for experience in various departments.
That level of nursing skill is in demand.
Displaced and laidoff workers in a manufacturing city like Dayton aren't as lucky. He's single, unattached, and free to move easily. When a company discriminates against your area because it had lots of union employees, the choices aren't as easy.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Exactly, they were given huge subsidies to go there and it's been well documented about the issues Mercedes had with the work force in Alabama.
So you are saying people in Detroit don't have a HS diploma? Or Youngstown? Or Dayton? That's bordering on ignorant.
Well, if your read my post, I didn't say no one had a diploma. Look at the HS graduation rates for cities like Detroit, Youngstown, Indianapolis etc. Many are under 50%. That's a huge problem and ignoring them is what is ignorant.
Again, let's not start painting with such a broad brush.
Yes, the MB Alabama plant and the Dell NC plants haven't been icons of success by anyone's imagination, but many of these plants have worked out quite well. I've not read anything of substance (negative) about the BMW, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai or Honda plants, and they used the same methods.
Also, remember the Saturn plant that GM located in Tennessee, so it isn't just foreign companies that do this sort of thing. In fact, the "manufacturing" states also employ this method. Why wouldn't they???
As an example...http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/incentive/ti0404.htm and http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/realestate/09film.html
The problem I personally have with incentive "pushes" is that they are usually secretive, and that aspect very rarely works out in the taxpayer's best interests. IMO, all of theses incentive plans should be open for public inspection before being offered. That would put a lot of pressure on legislators to reel in the "shopping" many (all) of these companies are doing when searching for new sites.
Select the site because its the best site, not because the site has the best "no-tax" deal being offered.
I don't think it's any surprise that I don't have any love for unions. I've been a union member and I've been on the other side managing a union workforce. No thanks, I personally would try to avoid a union on either side of that equation.
I'm not picking on any one state or area. MB, and Nissan both put plants in the south because they were able to get $$ and not have to deal with a union. I've read articles on both places having issues with poorly educated workers. Both have also had quality issues to show for it too.
I would say that is becoming the norm in most industries. Simply getting a degree and then never upgrading one's education from then on is a sure ticket to failure.
The medical, film-making, engineering and educational fields all require continuing education, and its not limited to those fields.
In the modern world, over a typical 40 year work lifespan, some really substantial changes occur nowadays.
A lot of this happened as a direct result of the US government making the choice (read: lobbied) to support air transportation over rail transportation. The true amount of $$$ given to passenger rail pales in comparason to the $$$$$$$$$ given the aerospace/airplane manufacturing industry.
Frankly, there's no reason why the USA shouldn't be the world leader in high-speed rail technology and manufacturing, but it isn't. And we will probably never be competitive in that field again.
Beyond that good point, the location chosen shouldn't be because of the most hidden subsidy, beyond no taxes, given.
>remember the Saturn plant that GM located in Tennessee,
I understand your point, but I feel Spring Hill, TN, isn't as desolate as it was presented; it's near Nashville. And Nashville has sustained a Nissan plant and even the Nissan offices are located there now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, you probably wouldn't know this (since your biases are pretty clear) but Mercedes quality reputation took a big hit in the last decade, something which they are still trying to recover from.
No manufacturer is immune to criticism when they let their product go to hell. :sick:
Actually, Chrysler people have said for years that "the merger of equals" resulted in Chrysler quality being dragged down by Benz. Of course, the Teutonic state of mind in Stuttgart isn't able to concede any of that...the problems were all Chrysler.
Problems of the kind that vehicle had were designed-in, not only applied at the plant poorly.
Only a non-U.S. manufacturer could get away with a customer forgiving them like that.
Funny that the old Axis nations have combined to pretty much destroy old Allied automotive industries, or at best where they have survived (not in England), make them wards of the state (USA, France).
Well, they still build them in Alabama, U.S of A. so technically... :P
Really I can put up with some problems if I like the vehicle enough.
There must be a way she can parlay this into a better company car....
Say hi to the Ford mechanic for me. When i had the Windstall I wrote him off as a dependent.
I can't buy that. The slide in quality was reflected in survey results published in Consumer Reports and widely reported in the media. Mercedes-Benz has lost the reputation for rock-solid reliability and build quality it enjoyed through the mid-1990s. The main reason Lexus hasn't completely eaten its lunch is that a Lexus looks a like an overgrown Toyota, while a Mercedes looks like a...Mercedes. Plus, the performance and styling of the vehicles are still excellent.
But even people I know who aren't that much into cars are wary of Mercedes reliability (actually, they are concerned about European cars in general). It helps that many of these cars are leased as opposed to being bought outright. Many people lease them, and turn them in as soon as the lease is up.
People forget that Cadillac didn't implode over night. It had been sliding for years (since 1971, in my estimation) when the you-know-what really hit the fan in the early 1980s with the diesels, V4-6-8 engines, early versions of the 4100 V-8, and overly drastic downsizing. Not only was the reliability really bad, but the performance was pathetic, and workmanship wasn't much better than what you got in an Oldsmobile or Buick. And when a 1986 Eldorado or Seville looks like a gilded Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais...well, that is the final blow.
Mercedes shot itself in the foot; GM shot Cadillac right in the heart, and then ran over the barely breathing corpse for good measure. Quite frankly, it's a miracle that Cadillac is still alive and able to build upon the foundation provided by the CTS and Escalade.
I know, the argument will be that it gives a more uninterrupted sweep of the windshield, but I don't know how at all it could clean as fast as two.
IIRC the last single wiper car was for MY 2003, the last of the CLK cabrios. I don't think it really offered anything superior, just an attempt at different tech...MB did use it in various cars for over 20 years, so it must not have been too bad. It's also fun to watch. If you want to see weird, look at a 90s S-class - the wipers are backward for a LHD car.
I would say that ideology runs the gambit accross the board, from cars to TV's, appliances, HVAC systems, etc..... Anything that someone spent a considerable amount of $$$ on buying.
In the general mix, few are very willing to admit that bought a "lemon", regardless what the product might be.
On the other hand, the same holds true for companies' products that we have had a bad experience owning. And, I'm no different.
I refuse to buy anything with an LG label due to bad personal experiences with LG phones, an LG TV, and a couple of other LG products.
Rationally, I understand that LG couldn't survive if all their production was like what I owned, but frankly, I just got tired of being the "lucky" one to get all the "rejects".
One nned to look no futher that Edmunds' forums to see this. Go to the thread that covers the "great" car you drive and wonder how anyone could possibly be having the issues they are experiencing, especially when you have 100K+ miles without a single problem.
Viewpoint applies here as well. I once worked with a guy that, it seemed on a monthly basis, would ask me to pick him up from the dealer's repair shop for the brand car he drove. To hear him talk, it was the best make/model ever made, totally trouble free. To his co-workers, he was living on another planet.
In the end, its 10% reality and 90% perception...
I know, the argument will be that it gives a more uninterrupted sweep of the windshield, but I don't know how at all it could clean as fast as two.
In its defense, it moves really fast!
But, I don't like it, either. My daughter used to call the models with the single wiper a "karate-mo-bile", because of how fast it was and the jerking-movements it made in its path across the windscreen.
Ended up being a bad module. It has to be ordered and it will be $330. Certainly not the end of the world.