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Absolutely. I was only commenting on the "Imported from Detroit" slogan from the commercial. Using a car that was not built in the Detroit area would have undoubtedly caused some negative backlash. Chrysler spent way to much money on that commercial and Superbowl ad space to have people claiming the "Imported from Detroit" slogan is a sham since the 300 wasn't built there.
Plus I'm sure the 200 will need all the help it can get to sell in the competitive market it's in.
Even moreso now that they have upped their stake.
link title
The only true "domestic" nameplates in this Country are Ford and Government Motors IMO :shades:
True
Regards,
OW
I see where Camaros are not selling at a brisk pace, between the 2 dealerships in Sarasota county, they have 38 new Camaros..On the Mustang side the 3 dealerships have 14 new ones in inventory..
Camaro was high on my list until the test drive and the only plus feature was the sunroof..Not a fun drive..Down side on my Mustang GT was lack of sunroof and 5 spd manual, howver with the "track pkg" it is a "Bullit"...My favorite Camaro was a 71 SS350 which I enjoyed for about 20 months accumulating 90k miles..business ride..The 82 Z-28 I bought for the wife was a dud..
My daily drive in retirement is still the 2006 Pont GPGT, w/SC 3.8, good performer, not the greatest fit and finish example, but all sytems work, and hasn't seen a GM dealer service for 15 months..I have all work done by a private shop, also a "Tire Rack" installer, 2 person shop, expensive, but good..appt only..The Mustang has been flawless, and Pontiac sees the local Chevy dealer for alignment...
On the subject of Chrysler, my daughter has 2 Jeeps, Cherokee, and a Columbia Edition of the Wrangler, both are not the greatest.. My son in Detroit has a 2009 Chrysler 300C-Hemi after 6 Cadillacs, and seems satisified after 50k miles..The real test comes after 125k miles..His last caddy was a 2002 STS which ended up with a cracked block around 150k which I am sure the dealer found out after it was traded in..
As a share of GDP, manufacturing has declined in most countries since 1970s. A few examples: Australia's manufacturing/GDP ratio went from 21.3% in 1970 to 9% in 2009, Brazil's ratio went from 24.6% to 13.3%, Canada's from 21.7% to 11.3%, Germany's from 35% to 19%, and Japan's from 35% to 20% (I'll maybe create a chart with a more complete list).
Bottom Line: The complaints about the "decline in U.S. manufacturing" are really a somewhat misguided acknowledgment of the global shift in production that has taken place since we entered the Information Age with the commercial introduction of the microchip in 1971 and gradually left the Machine Age behind. When we complain that "nothing is made here anymore," it's not so much that somebody else is making the stuff we used to make as it is the case that we (and others around the world) just don't need as much "stuff" any more in relation to the size of the economy.
The standard of living around the world today, along with global wealth and prosperity, are all much, much higher today with manufacturing representing 16-17% of total world output compared to 1970, when it was almost twice as high at 26.7%. And for that progress, we should applaud, not complain.
Regards,
OW
I'd like to know the background of the author of that op/ed piece.
Dr. Mark J. Perry is a professor of economics and finance in the School of Management at the Flint campus of the University of Michigan. Perry holds two graduate degrees in economics (M.A. and Ph.D.) from George Mason University near Washington, D.C. In addition, he holds an MBA degree in finance from the Curtis L. Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota. Perry is currently on sabbatical from the University of Michigan and is a visiting scholar at The American Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C.
Regards,
OW
Wife and I were in the market for a new barabque grill. I did my homework and found that Weber still makes grills here in the U.S. They do make lower end models in China in order to stay competitive. I know I spent a good extra $100 or so, but I feel good knowing it was made in the USA and of very good quality materials. The grill ranks very high with people who have purchased it also.
Think longterm when making purchases. Buying forgien products/services does you know good, if you can think past the now.
Cheers.
I will never buy GM, however.
Regards,
OW
My wife and look very close to see if what we are buying has the same competitive product made in "AMERICA" , even if the American similar product is more in cost we will buy it instead. That is even if the product is much higher in cost. What is a huge concern for us is unless we shop looking for "American" made products, then it becomes less of a chance for people in the countries of Canada, Mexico and the US to have a job.
Here is what is "wicked" in my opinion. I was looking at a Ford Mustang. Nice vehicle right, made in the US, right? Look a little cl;oser, the 5.2 L engine couples to and automatic transmission, but the transmission IS MADE IN CHINA ! Ford also uses engines made in Brazil But Ford is not the only one doing this sneeky crap. Some Chevy's use engines made in China ! I refuse to buy a vehcile that has significant powertrain parts made in China.
I know we are becoming more global, and trying to help developing countries grow from third world status, and increase their standard of living. I also know we have many factory workers unemployed due to plants moving to other cheap labor countries. I don't have the answer to all this, but I do not think putting our workers out of work is the answer. In reality we have lowered the standard of living in the US and Canada. We need to help Mexico, but NOT while their government is so dishonest, and drug lords are at war, and taking that war to the US and Canada. That means for me the Journey and Fiat, made in Mexico cause me an ethical problem. These are great vehicles, but they have taken a large number of jobs that the US and Canada once had.
The order of things we purchase that are made is the US first, Canada second, Mexico third, and the rest from other places. We do care for other countries, but I doubt other countries care as much about the "Americian countries."
With all the countries that have been peaceful friends and co-workers, none has been such a country as Canada! I have been proud all my Caravans and the Pacifica we now have, were made in Canada.
I will be anxious to hear what you who read this think.
farout
South American, but "American".
My foreign vehicles have done me a ton of good, in the long term especially. The Honda I bought in 2002 held it's value so well, that I was able to resell it and make an excellent down payment towards an Audi A3 that has served me amazingly well since 2006 and 77,000+ miles.
Thinking long term will surely take away from people choosing an American manufactured automobile. In order to buy Big 3, you have to think only short term because that's the only benefit (cheap initial price).
A few comments:
- Brazil is in America, too
- Conversely, there are a lot of foreign nameplates with a very high percentage of US/Canadian content.
- Lots of US nameplate work has been outsourced due to policies of the UAW
- ALL car companies are globalized and all of them have some parts from here, some from there. If we want to support US jobs, buy the vehicle with the highest domestic content (small flaw - I believe Canada is part of the 'domestic' definition).
But once you up the ante to Big 3 (what we will euphemistically call the symbol of the American made car) your logic, IMO, fails...
If my extra-cost US made hammer breaks, or my Weber rusts out, or my power drill fails, I can easily replace the item because the total cost did not take years of payments...
But for those who bought GM cars that the doors didn't fit, that had rattles that no one could fix, that had body panels painted different shades of red, that had body panels with gaps you could drive a Mack truck thru, or a car that lived its first year at the dealer service dept with a unfixable problem, they cannot easily throw away the car and just lose 100 bucks...
Read back a few 1000 posts, and you will find many posters have had just those problems, and rah-rah comments like yours will not sweep those problems under the rug like they never happened...and they happened to millions of buyers of Big 3 cars, because Big 3 car quality is the exact reason why the imports grew...like it or not, their cars were better than ours...
Who am I to say that???...just a reader of the market share over the years, watching Big 3 share shrink while import share grew...no one forced those people to switch to imports, they left Big 3 because they were fed up with junk, the very same problems I listed above, the junk that was being made while they advertised "Quality is Job 1"...they forgot to tell the UAW, where quality is not even on their radar screen, only their pensions, free healthcare, being drunk, and eating donuts while drawing full paychecks at the Jobs Bank...
Your argument is good for smaller purchases, tools, home items, etc.
But when someone parts with $25K or more, carrying $400-plus payments for 48 months or more, your argument is really quite hollow...they want the best their money can buy, and with the UAW labor stamp on it, you can be sure fewer Americans believe is US quality as compared to 20 years ago...
The Big 3 PUSHED their customers away...they almost DARED them to leave, hoping that they could bamboozle them with ads about quality, images of which disappeared once they drove the GM and compared it to the import...
Tell the UAW to clean up its act, and maybe those "deserters" will come back in another 20 years...foll me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...
American buyers have been lied to by the UAW and Big 3 management for many years, and they simply voted with their feet, taking their money where they believed they bought the best quality...and you can rest assured, there is a federal law that states that it is a federal crime to use the words 'UAW" and "automotive quality" in the same sentence, except where I have described it here...
I'm also extremely happy with my GM automobiles, especially Cadillac and Buick. I still have my 1989 Cadillac Brougham since new and I can't complain about my trouble-free 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance or my wife's 2005 Buicl LaCrosse. Believe me, GM car are not remotely as bad as some posters depict them. If they were, I wouldn't have consistently bought them since I came of driving age 30 years ago.
Only that millions of US buyers abandoned US makes, quite voluntarily, means they found SOMETHING sufficiently wrong with them and took their hard-earned dollars elsewhere, lemko...no one forced them to leave, no one enticed them with $5000 rebates like US makes, they bought imports which cost more...which means that millions of folks apparently got burned on their US purchases, while we are grateful that you didn't, you were one of the few...
The markets spoke for itself, and you were in a shrinking minority...like it or not, millions of buyers did not agree with your assessment...
My Park Ave gave me a scare on the way up to Carlisle on Saturday. Just after I crossed the Maryland border, and was thinking, can I make it all the way, or would my bladder be happier if I stopped off at the rest area just ahead, when suddenly I heard, and felt, a sort of a bang, like something hitting the car. My first thought was that perhaps one of the serpentine belts or something under the hood broke. Looking in the rear view mirror, I saw what looked like a big bolt bouncing around on the road.
I pulled off at the rest area, and looked under the hood. Both belts were fine, as were all the hoses. I grabbed and shook all four wheels to make sure they felt like they were still solidly on the car. Everything seemed okay.
I'm just hoping that bolt was something that happened to hit the bottom of the car, rather than something that fell off of the car! :surprise: Maybe it fell off the Camry that was ahead of me? :P
I used Klipsch speakers for my main 7.1 home theater but I manage to pick up an Energy Take Classic 5.1 speaker set for only $300 when my local Circuit City went under. I installed it in the basement and use it primarily for gaming and watching TV. It sounds very nice. A screaming bargain.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Unintended acceleration is only possible with human error. Put it in neutral or turn off the ignition!
I'd say more like "lesser" drivers. Lesser skilled, less competent drivers. Different than unintelligent. Automotively unintelligent, perhaps, but still smart enough to choose Toyota over Buick.
I'd say 99.97 % of Buick's lost market share went directly to Toyota.
But the way people are today, they take no personal responsibility for anything that they do. It's always something else, or somebody elses fault.
The same thing has happened with Toyota and unintended acceleration. It couldn't have been MY error, and my MISapplication of pedals, it must of been a computer glitch which took over my vehicle, overrode the ignition, overrode the accelerator pedal, overrode the brakes, overrode the transmission, all at the same time so that instantaeneously everything but the engine failed all at the same time. I couldn't shift into neutral, I couldn't turn off the ignition/car, but I could crash with full throttle applied. (and oh yeah, I had time to call 911)
SIKE!
15 years ago I too owned forgien vehicles. Yes, the Ford/GM/Dodge made mistakes I cannot deny, they don't deny. However, it is a double standard when you look at both Honda/Toyota over just the last 2 years and thier recalls and issues. Its ok for them? why? I worked for the Japanese for years. I know thier culture. It is in their culture to hide issues/problems to save face, to save the reputation. Look at what is happening in Japan right now with their nuclear issues. With the internet Toyota/Honda or any other car manufacturer can no longer hide issues. A few years back the Honda CRV was having engine fire issues.
Very few people know of this issues until I link them to internet articles. Honda has one heck of a PR department, as does Toyota.
Having now owned "domestics" for many years and miles I see no reason to go back to buying forgein vehicles.
And, if you could just see past the now. Really understand what you are doing to the economic stability, viability of this once great nation by purchasing forgien goods and services you would really understand. Having had friends and family hit hard by this last depression, seeing how working families still struggle. It seems to me that you have dodged the bullit this last round of recession/depression and did not feel this last recession. When one looses their job it opens up a whole different perspective.
Prove to me that buying foreign goods and services benefits us as a nation. Prove to me that sending our dollars overseas makes us as a nation more economically stable and viable. I spend a good 2 hours a night on other chat rooms around the internet. My goal is to get just 1 person to open thier eyes, THINK about how they spend their money and the LONG term effects. I have yet to loose a debate over sending our money, weatlth, jobs oveseas. The truth is its not good for US.
SHANGHAI, China -- With this year's addition of the Baojun brand, General Motors has seven brands in China. Sound familiar?
The automaker had eight in the U.S. before its 2009 bankruptcy, but sold or closed four during its restructuring. The eight brands' identities had become fuzzy as GM's market share shrank, and the operations were starving one another of marketing and product development funds.
So, global executives ask: How is GM ensuring it won't repeat its U.S. overexpansion in China?
Susan Docherty, GM's regional sales and marketing boss, tells them the Chinese market is millions in sales ahead of the U.S. Although China's growth is slowing, it shows no signs of contracting.
"In the United States, when we only had an industry that was, my gosh, 10 or 11 million units, for us to have eight brands ... became increasingly difficult. We ended up with brands that were competing against each other," Docherty said. "In the Chinese market, with an industry that's going to continue to grow and grow, there are price segments that we were not going to be in."
GM is aiming its new Baojun brand at low-end buyers who are shopping local Chinese brands, not the college-educated customers who are attracted to Chevrolet. Baojun, Docherty said, is targeted to grow to four vehicles.
HMM...in China you need a college degree to buy a Chevy!
What a world!
At the end of the day, cars are a commodity just like computers. The USA needs to move up the value chain in manufacturing products that others can not even think about producing.
Regards,
OW
What are they? Can we wait around for them while our people starve in abject poverty? Even if we did come up with them, China would just steal the intellectual property because they have no respect for anything. They are, essentially, industrial criminals. About the only thing we still make is military weapons systems.
AFAIR we are the country where even the poor people are fat. Not much starvation here.
People who hold hope for this miracle that will bail us out of the past 40 years of trade and education mistakes are the same types who buy lottery tickets with legitimate dreams of salvation.
Dumbing down, nothing more.
Time to buy some stock in the company that makes those Hoveround things!
Sort of like GM's business model that put them in the hole for the past 3 decades, more metal for the money, just don't expect the quality... :sick:
Fiat is a foreign car assembled in Mexico, a foreign country..It smells of our tax dollars..bailout dough..
The 500 model has been around as long as the Volks bettle..a whopping 38 mpg hwy, 30 city..
Another econo-box. Our Govt saved Fiat's future..
To be honest I would rather have a Fiat in the garage over the Chinese inspired GM models slated for future manufacture..Out of the 53 cars owned to date, GM accounted for over 60% of the total, but I am not on board anymore..
How about the same people who have been running GM, now are pushing for a new tax computed on miles of driving..payable at the pump before you refill..
The young folks in this great country really don't have much of a future, computer games and all the electronic gadgets shall be the order of the day...
I just hope I'm not parked next to that guy again this year at the Carlisle GM show! I cringed every time that old man lunged that Hoveround near my Catalina!
No, cannon, it is not OK for them...the Big 3 got arrogant over the years and drove their customers away...maybe the same thing is happening now in reverse...those Japanese makes who thought they were invincible may be turning into what the Big 3 were in the 70s-90s, and maybe the tide will turn...
I don't have actual numbers, but I would wonder if the total number of recalled cars of the Big 3 outnumbers the Japanese recalls by a major factor...
All I am saying is that you sound great when you say Buy American, but millions, yes millions, of folks were burned by the Big 3 in the last 25 years, and they are simply reluctant to spend over $20K on a Big 3 car if they are one of those burned badly over the years...you may be more forgiving, but it seems they are not...and your calls for saving our industry still falls on hollow ears if you are one of those stuck with numerous Big 3 lemons over those years...
It is stupid to buy a car to save your neighbor's job if your neighbor makes junk, and for MANY years, your neighbor really did make junk (lemko's cars excepted)...they have to EARN our business, cannon, and the UAW may just never get it...
...and when your DON'T work in our treacherous lower class, you don't have to operate in any realm of intelligence (look at Detroit) or accountability (don't pay income taxes) at all. :shades:
They get food stamps. There is no reason that they could not make decent choices, if they had either the drive or the intelligence. Think of all the calories they would save substituting an apple for a Big Mac.
Maybe that should be GM and Chrysler's incentive program. Buy our vehicles today, and if it ends up being a lemon tomorrow, we'll give you a year's supply of lemons and apples, free of charge.
Frankly, you'll need a lot of lemons to decorate your drinks with all the drinking you'll need to do when you get all those tow truck and mechanic repair bills. A nation of alcoholics we will become. A repeat of my Chrysler/Dodge buying experience would simply drive me to drink, drink to drive away my sorrows.
What I mean by that is, pity the rich! Eliminate taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Emulate Chindia. It has to work! Trickle down! Capitalism! Free markets!
Hey, guys...all this posting, and I think fintail finally gets it...