Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Good point about good will service. When I needed something repaired on a Ford they wouldn't budge on out of warranty and were indeed quite nasty about it. This was corporate Ford. The dealer just pulled the "out of my hands" trick.

    Honda stepped up immediately and put me in a comparable rental and had ma back in my van at no expense to me in two days. It's what has kept me with Honda even as their cars get less interesting.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I was a little luckier with Ford's, but I think that was because Ford seemed to give the dealer some leeway and my dealer was good. Always got a loaner and got some flex on a few items out of warranty. However, it seemed my Ford's would have more issues after warranty throughout the 00's decade than my Honda or Toyota vehicles. Hopefully that is changing this decade.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited May 2011
    Well, there ya go...I'm sure the Toyota dealer poured rock salt or something down in the quarter panels to sabotage it, and perpetuate the myth of Toyota supremacy

    lol, too funny. Actually, being my first car purchase that wasn't a hand me down from my parents I didn't really go to too many places to look for a car. There is a strip of car dealers in Nashua and we stopped at a couple of different ones. The Olds was in the running with an odd group of vehicles actually.

    If I remember right there was:

    A Dodge Rampage
    Cavalier Z24
    Toyota Celica GT
    early 80's Toyota Supra
    Toyota Corolla AE86
    Dodge Shadow
    Mitsubushi Starion
    Mustang 5.0LX

    The Mustang got eliminated the quickest because it was literally beat to hell and smelled like wackytibacy big time! The leather seats were so covered in burn marks and the drivers side had been keyed. Shame, still one of my favorite vintages of Mustangs.

    I think there were a couple more but my budget was roughly 8 thousand dollars. I wanted the Starion the most but being that I was a kid and my parents wanted me to be protected in the event of a wreck, they convinced me to go for the Olds. The Starion was out of my price range by a bit as well... Plus, like I said it had the V8 which was "cool" at the time.

    As far as the motor goes, it was so long ago but my friends and I used to wrench with our cars all the time and one of them had a dad who was a good wrench mechanic who pointed out that it was a 305 and how unusually rare it was in that car. Monte Carlo SS's had the same motor apprently which I thought was pretty cool. I loved, loved loved the MSS.

    Mine had the Rochester "quadrajunk"which was constantly needing tweaks to run right and the Transmission went to hell about 45k. The rear end whined a few thou after that, the interior fell apart just by looking at it the wrong way and then the front tie rods needed emergency replacement about 55k requiring a tow to the dealer because it was unsafe to drive and wouldn't pass inspection... The aluminum "Lace" wheels developed stress cracks on 3 of them so I replaced them with AR wheels about 65k.

    Sold the car at 75k for 500 bucks. By that time, the dashboard was dead, the windscreen leaked, the rear windows leaked, I had replaced brakes and wheel bearings at all four corners, I was on my third exhaust (the last one I got the duallys like my beloved MSS :D ) lessee, a third battery and the radiator was replaced. Oh, and the fuel line cracked and needed replacement...

    The new owner got a bonus too, an AC/DC Highway to hell tape stuck in the cassette player, lol. How appropriate. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    1971 Chevrolet Impala sedan: This car belonged to my friend's Dad. I didn't get this one because his Dad decided to keep it as his work car for going to construction and excavation sites.

    1975 Ford LTD Landau: Rejected when I discovered severe rust hiding behind the wheel wells.

    1975 Ford Custom 500 sedan: Rejected. Car refused to start. Bad omen.

    1975 Buick Electra 225: Really nice, but owner wanted too much for it.

    1958 Oldsmobile Super 88 four-door hardtop: Would've LOVED this one, but even $2,500 was too much for a 16 year-old's budget in 1981.

    1972 Buick Skylark 2-door hardtop: Sold right before I could get to it.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,952
    Re.: Goodwill service....last year, at 79K miles, got a transmission control module, horn, and steering rack replaced by GM for....free. Car was five years old at the time with no extended warranty.

    This was extraordinary IMO. I've had my dealer do things for me outside of warranty before, but this was unexpected.

    I've mentioned this on Edmunds previously, and one anti-GM guy actually wrote that I should stop mentioning this and not 'cross post' from one forum topic to the next about it!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Of course you should post it wherever appropriate. Gotta give props to guys who do service right.

    I have found (another thing I learned here) that asking for a piece of their good will money doesn't hurt. Once they realize you know they have such a pot of money dealers seem to find it better to throw some your way than to be cheapskates about it.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    New categories - "we have 12 mostly new categories like Most Wanted Car We Can't Have, Most Wanted Exotic, Most Wanted Cheap Car, Most Wanted Fuel Sipper, Most Wanted Hatchback, Most Wanted Hot Rod Division…things you actually care about."

    And one of the categories is "Most Wanted American Car".

    2011 Edmunds' Inside Line Readers' Most Wanted Awards
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I already have it though it wasn't listed as a choice: the Cadillac DTS.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Last domestic car dealership left was a Ford, and it's gone..All foreign dealers in SF, no big surprise I guess, strange people with left-coast mentality..

    My American car fleet is less one auto, sold the 2010 Mustang GT to a good friend, for I made the mistake of driving a 2011 Mustang GT w/5.0 power..decided to upgrade.. The new Stang is selling very well, so I looking for a used 2011 or may have to wait for the 2012..The V-8 with RWD is the only way along with the 3.73 rear end..

    My 2006 Grand Prix GT just upchucked it's 3rd battery in 57k miles..I had to pay for the 4th one, another 7 yr warranty deal which means they pay for the next one..Only cost $132, and isn't life great..The failed battery was a 7 yr one, which lasted roughly 30 mos..The original battery was replaced after 75 miles..The 2nd battery died @ 21,500 mi..

    The hot weather in Fla. destroys them quickly, and the town driving doesn't help..At interstate speeds the air flow helps..My trade on the GT was a 2002 Olds Intrigue which reached 120k at flip time, and it's battery lasted until around 95k, 80% of road time was interstate, all Florida driving..

    Love the American-Big3 auto, Cadillac is not on my favorite list, bought the wife 3 of them, had too many issues, and my son has had 7 of them, Eldos and STSs plus 1 Allante..The little 2 seater was a farce, had the Northstar engine..
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Another Chinese product to avoid:

    Bursting Watermelons

    I don't know if these melons are exported to the U.S., but wouldn't be surprised.
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    I read something recently where our "Cadillac Div" was the major sponsor of a Chinese flick "History of Communism", how's that for a warm fuzzy feeling for you Caddy fans..

    Another encounter with a Caddy product which I had forgotten was with a 1984 Eldo Biarritz which was given to me after the company CEO was fired..It had less than 10k miles on it, triple blue ext w/stainless roof..4.1 V-8 was worthless, suspension was floaty, and after 2 months of driving I sold it to a retired GM employee who went ga-ga over it..Cost the company $8k to terminate the finance lease..

    Another car of the same era I had was a 1981 Buick Rivera V-8, kept it for 6 mos, around 16k miles, had a long vacation from working..In retrospect the Buick was far superior to the Eldo, but neither was a high-speed handler.

    I remember the 1996 Caddy Deville which I bought the wife had the 275hp Northstar V-8, and the 2011 DTS is still 275 hp...15 yrs later..no progress, only in the area of pricing has any increase been shown..Caddy is using the same body since 2000 in that series..

    I am sure the Chinese are thrilled with the Caddy Div..Didn't the Chinese take over GM's old Delphi operation which was at one time called "Saginaw Steering Gear"???
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    edited May 2011
    Of course, Chinese communism is about as real as the 4.1 was a real world class engine. It's more of a semi-fascist cronyist oligarchy (sadly what we are becoming), where the 4.1 was a good boat anchor :shades:

    They love the Buicks most, anyway.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    I paid so little for the car, I think I'm still ahead of the game though.

    Doubt it!!! Keep that PT Cruiser much longer for your daughter and your retirement funds could be in jeopardy.

    That car is a Neon with a new name and shell/body. It will self destruct like clockwork from now on, since you've passed the warranty period.

    LOL< asking Chrysler for warranty service is like asking Osama Bin Laden for a donation to help you as an American citizen. They are both unlikely and you are asking a dead source.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    My cousin got stuck with a dead Ford engine/motor at less than 40K miles and they wouldn't budge on the 36K mile warranty.

    Honda too, in my experience treats their customers well and will extend warranties if there's ever an issue.

    It's simply a different mentality and different culture at the two dealers. At Chrysler/Dodge, the culture was that parts and cars were meant to break down and that it was normal and acceptable, and you should be happy to pay them to fix it. At Honda, it was embarrassing, unexpected, surprising, shocking, and they immediately work to minimize the impact and inconvenience to you, along with paying for everything. Total 180 from what I experienced at the Dodge Dealerships.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    Goodwill service....last year, at 79K miles, got a transmission control module, horn, and steering rack replaced by GM for....free. Car was five years old at the time with no extended warranty.

    Sounds like a lot of issues for under 80K. I'll be at 80K miles within a couple months in my '06 Audi A3. Care to wager it won't need transmission control modules, horns, and/or steering racks replaced? What kind of odds do you want? I'm in a gambling mood!

    Audi did send me a letter the other day that 3 parts are going to be warranted to 10 years or 120,000 miles or something to that effect. Haven't had to replace any of them yet though (78K).
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    No worries that your car was built to drive either on the right or left side of the road, enabling your passenger to take over the brakes.

    "The car is French and they drive on the correct side of the road there and sit on the correct side, too. Not the British. They want right hand drive. And so, being French, Citroen gives in and builds them that way. Though they've done it all sorts of half-arsed by connecting the right-drive pedal to the left-hand-drive-side mounted brake interface. They didn't move everything over, just moved the pedal and hooked it up. This means that if the passenger hits just the right spot on the carpet, they get to control the brakes."

    Recall: Citroen C3 Picasso Recalled Over Passenger Brake Issue
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...have some weird rubber ball on the floor instead of a brake pedal?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Saw my first Fiat 500 in a parking lot yesterday. I definitely think it looks better in person than from the pics I've seen. Definitely a small car.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2011-05-21-boating-industry_n.ht- m

    This partially explains why I still haven't got my boat back from the marina. I dropped it off 3 weeks ago and they still haven't worked on it yet. Every marina I called around here has a 2-3 week back log on service work.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,952
    When did Ford only warranty engines to 36K? That's been years.

    I think I told you about one of my four coworkers, who owns an '05 Honda van. $1,800 was their 'goodwill' offer on a new trans. Wow, really helpful. This was two years ago.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,952
    Are you really ahead if you buy a $20K import, or a $6,900 PT that's 2 1/2 years old and need to even put, say, $2K in?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    Well, you then have to deal with the stigma and displeasure of driving a PT, those are probably worth at least 50K. Not a big deal anyway, as IIRC all NA market PTs were built south of the border.
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    My sister and BIL have a PT Cruiser. They were at one time actually in a club on the Gulf Coast, they would cruise up and down highway 90. I'd have to put a bag over my head! The thing's got a ton of miles on it but, somehow, it keeps on running.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    Those things always have a good turnout at the Mopar show in Carlisle, PA. I don't have anything against 'em. I thought they were pretty cool when they first came out, but, like most things domestic, they just didn't get updated, lingered too long, and fell from favor.

    I wonder how hard it would be for them to take the platform that serves as the basis for the Caliber, Patriot, and Compass, and massage a PT Cruiser revival out of it? My guess is that it wouldn't take much effort at all to rebody a Compass...just give it a new front-end clip and sheetmetal, and do something with that Gremlin-like rear quarter window.

    But then, perhaps the PT Cruiser's time has past, and there's no need for a revival.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    I didn't have a problem with them when new, seemed fairly cool, but like you said, in typical domestic fashion, withered on the vine, probably sharply decontented, and became rental fodder.

    More annoying to me are some who drive them and what some do to them. Much less than cool. The convertibles also looked weird.

    PT met the ultimate retro roadblock - you can't update it.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited May 2011
    "The U.S. turns out to be an uncommon point of origin for American-branded cars."

    VEHICLE
    WHERE BUILT
    % U.S./Canada
    Part Content

    Chevrolet Aveo
    San Luis Potosi, Mexico
    2%

    Ford Fiesta
    Cuautitlan Izcalli, Mexico
    10%

    Ford Fusion/Lincoln MKZ
    Hermosillo, Mexico
    20%

    Cadillac SRX
    Ramos Arizpe, Mexico
    21%

    Mercury Milan
    Hermosillo, Mexico
    25%

    Chevrolet HHR
    Ramos Arizpe, Mexico
    37%

    Dodge Journey
    Toluca, Mexico
    38%

    Chevrolet Volt
    Hamtramck, Michigan
    40%

    Chevrolet Cruze
    Lordstown, Ohio
    45%

    Ford Expedition/
    Lincoln Navigator
    Louisville, Kentucky
    50%

    Lincoln MKS
    Chicago, Illinois
    55%

    Buick LaCrosse
    Kansas City, Kansas
    57%
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,963
    Are you really ahead if you buy a $20K import, or a $6,900 PT that's 2 1/2 years old and need to even put, say, $2K in?

    Possibly. The import might save you $500 in gas a year. And say, after 2.5 more years, the PT Crusier will be worthless, but the import would still be worth 65% of it's value. In the long run, you'll always get better value from the best imports.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Thank you for that eye opening list! Now; if too much negative reaction is stirred up when people realize that the cheap "American" cars they buy are not being built in the US; this could become a major force for the Tea Party to lobby congress to invade Mexico and make it part of this country. That would set all those objections to rest; and I'm sure the US auto manufacturers wouldn't complain a bit.
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    edited May 2011
    Well, I bought my first domestic vehicle in 11 years, a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4X4. Traded in an 07 4Runner Sport. On Sat., the winds here in Texas were gusting to 40 mph, so I thought it was a great time to test drive the Jeep. It is so hunkered down and solid, never once did I feel any wind, or hear any for that fact. Even the wife commented how nice the ride was. The 4Runner, while the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned (I've had two, an 03 and 07), was terrible in cross winds and I found the seat hard to get comfortable in. Still, I appreciated it's dependability. I pray that this new vehicle comes anywhere close to the Toyota's reliability. Time will tell. I'm happy to have bought American again. Also this weekend, I bought an American made wallet and a new sun shade for the new Jeep.
    Have a great Memorial Day, guys. If you see a soldier, give him/her your thanks and buy him/her a beer! If you can swing it, pay for their dinner.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,952
    Well, you then have to deal with the stigma and displeasure of driving a PT, those are probably worth at least 50K. Not a big deal anyway, as IIRC all NA market PTs were built south of the border.

    That's true. I figured the damage was done when it was sold as a new unit. :)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,952
    edited May 2011
    Possibly. The import might save you $500 in gas a year. And say, after 2.5 more years, the PT Crusier will be worthless, but the import would still be worth 65% of it's value. In the long run, you'll always get better value from the best imports

    Does anybody remember learning about "the time value of money" in school? You're better saving money upfront and investing it than hoping to get it a few years later.

    And frankly, I'm not seeing them selling '05 PT's for free as you suggest.

    I wouldn't have bought one new, but I think it's fine for a 17-year old, especially when I look at the other cars in the school parking lot :) .
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    For Philly's Male Workers, No Jobs Now and Maybe Never Again

    Mr. Wallace once worked at Dodge Steel. I remember this place. It was a huge plant right next to I-95 that burned to the ground maybe about 15 years ag. A polluted, worthless brownfield is all that is left of Dodge Steel.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What once was Philadelphia's industrial might:

    Workshop of the World
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    Oh, there's a new miracle savior economy coming, just around the corner. Any day now. I hear it will be "green" and first world social and environmental standards will be able to compete with abusive kleptocracies 100%. Some free marketeers told me, so it has to be true! :shades: :sick:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Now, dig this!

    HONG KONG &#151; Wages are surging this year in China and among its main low-wage Asian rivals, benefiting workers across the region. But the increases confront trading companies and Western retailers with cost increases, and are making higher prices likely for American and European consumers.

    Bruce Rockowitz, the chief executive of Li & Fung, the largest trading company supplying Chinese consumer goods to American retail chains, said in a speech here on Tuesday that the company&#146;s average costs for goods rose 15 percent in the first five months of this year compared with the same period last year. Executives at other consumer goods companies have encountered similar or larger increases.

    Airline flights to Vietnam, Bangladesh, Indonesia and other low-wage Asian countries are packed these days with executives looking for alternatives to double-digit wage increases in China. But wages are rising as fast or faster in many of these countries, following China&#146;s example, while commodity prices have surged around the world, leaving buyers with few places to turn.

    Bangladesh raised its minimum wage by 87 percent late last year, yet apparel factories there are still struggling to find enough workers to complete ever-rising orders. &#147;Everywhere you see signs saying &#145;people wanted,&#146; &#147; said Annisul Huq, the chairman of Mohammadi Group, a large Bangladesh garment manufacturer.

    The Gap surprised financial markets on May 19 by announcing that a 20 percent jump in costs from suppliers by the second half of this year would depress its profits, prompting a 17.5 percent plunge of its shares the next day. Coach, the luxury handbag company, announced in January that it would try to reduce its reliance on China to less than half of its products within four years, from 80 percent now, by moving production to Vietnam and India.

    Yet wages in Vietnam have been rising as fast as Chinese wages, or faster, while India has posed many problems for large-scale manufacturers. Mr. Rockowitz said that India&#146;s infrastructure &#151; roads and ports &#151; was &#147;really poor,&#148; while labor issues, including government regulations, make it hard to build Chinese-style factories for tens of thousands of workers.

    With costs rising in China and few alternatives elsewhere, &#147;you have the perfect storm for raising prices,&#148; said Bennett Model, the chief executive of Cassin, a Manhattan-based line of designer clothing. The company&#146;s costs have risen 25 to 35 percent in the last year for cotton and fur garments alike.

    Cassin has begun experimenting with garment production in Guatemala with some success, Mr. Model said, adding that many garment companies were still leery of buying from anywhere except China. &#147;Everybody&#146;s scared of the quality &#151; you spend so many years training a factory&#148; to meet detailed specifications, he said.

    Yet with 14 million people, Guatemala has the population only of a single large Chinese metropolitan area like Shenzhen or Guangzhou.

    Workers in developing countries all over the world are becoming more aware of pay elsewhere through the Internet and the use of social media like Facebook, increasing the pressure for higher wages, Mr. Rockowitz said.

    Li & Fung handles about 4 percent of American retailers&#146; imports from China of virtually all kinds of consumer goods, according to investment analysts. The exception is electronics, which tend to be imported directly to the United States by other companies like Apple.

    Mr. Rockowitz and other executives predict that the extremely high concentration of factories in southeastern China near Hong Kong will give way to a dispersal across the country in the next five years. Workers are becoming much more reluctant to spend up to three days on buses and trains from the interior to reach coastal factories, particularly when the growth of domestic spending in China is creating more jobs in the interior.

    Even the recent opening of high-speed rail routes that cut travel times by up to 80 percent has not been enough to revive the flow of migrants. &#147;They don&#146;t have to take a 1,000-mile trip to the coast &#151; there&#146;s a shortage of people, unbelievable,&#148; said Douglas Hsu, the chairman and chief executive of the Far Eastern Group, a big Taiwanese multinational with extensive investments in mainland China.

    And wages in China&#146;s interior have been rising even faster in percentage terms than in coastal provinces, steadily narrowing what was once a pattern of much higher wages in coastal export zones.

    Many companies have another reason for staying in China these days: that is where their sales are growing fastest. &#147;If the market is in China, which in many cases it now is, there&#146;s much less incentive to move,&#148; said Charles Oliver, the senior partner of GCiS China, a market research company in Shanghai.

    China has become the world&#146;s largest market for a long list of products, from cars to steel. Producing and selling in China protects companies from later facing &#147;Buy Chinese&#148; policies, antidumping cases or other Chinese import restrictions.

    Manufacturing in China allows companies to incur costs in renminbi, the same currency as a growing part of their sales. That insulates them from one kind of currency volatility even as the renminbi fluctuates more against the dollar and euro.

    Rising wages and strengthening currencies in Asia are making it less attractive to move higher-value industries like auto manufacturing out of the West. But little mentioned by almost anyone making or trading consumer goods in Asia these days is the possibility of moving these relatively labor-intensive manufacturing industries back to the United States or Europe.

    Mr. Rockowitz was dismissive of the idea in his remarks on Tuesday at the Foreign Correspondents&#146; Club.

    &#147;The Western world does not have the work force to do this kind of business,&#148; he said. &#147;For &#145;made in Italy,&#146; the workers are old now and there are no new workers coming in.&#148;
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    I actually read about this several months ago. Yet another good reason to bring back American manufacturing!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    Interesting read. That Rockowitz sounds like a real piece of work...or a real piece of something, anyway. More of our treacherous executive class who haven't been properly handled since France in 1789.

    He does have a good point though, the work isn't simply going to come back because of these minor wage issues. When labor costs are almost zero, a 20% rise doesn't break the bank.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    all we want, losing jobs in Philly, Detroit or anywhere else...all this really proves is that our economy is not static, it is dynamic, whereas most human beings are static and complacent...they thought those jobs would last forever, and they did not...yeah, for some they worked 30 years, get their retirement and lived their lives with Company X...probably most of that 50 year span from the 50s to the 90s or so...but changes were happening in the undercurrent and we did not want to face it...

    They just thought if they keep striking, demanding higher wages far out of range for thei level of skill, gold plated health care and pensions, that the system would just "absorb it" and nothing would change...and nothing changed until something DID change...competition brought in a (sometimes) better product, and the number of retireees became so overwhelming that there simply was not sufficient funds to pay for them, and verybody thought it was "somebody else's" job to take care of them...

    Kids grew up thinking that they needed no skills because they were going to get Daddy's position on the union assembly line, because that's what Daddy did when Granddaddy retired...so nobody bothered to learn to read or write because you didn't need to on the assembly line or the steelmaking line...things didn't change overnight but for those who were watching and awake (i.e.not drunk like most UAW workers) the changes were obvious...

    Honda and Toyota were making good products and other companies were making quality steel...also, other items became too expensive to fix...they criticize us for being a "throwaway society" but what other choice is there???...I can buy a new VCR for under $100, but if I take it to someone who actually repairs them, they want $75 just to open and diagnose a problem that will cost over $100 to fix...this is a no-brainer...$125 to repair the old one, or $100 for a BRAND NEW one...what idiot will fix the old one just to save some space in the landfill???

    My wife wanted me to take her shoes to the cobbler (yes, we have one)...new soles and heels were $65...new shoes were $55-60...I believe that the man's skill is certainly worth what he charges, but he only makes my point...she could not put more money into the repair than the shoes cost when they were new, so she threw them out and bought new shoes...if I had a $500 pair of cowboy boots or $300 Allen Edmonds dress shoes, then a $65 repair would be well worth it...but for shoes that cost under $100 (the shoes we own) the reapir isn't worth it...due to the cost of the shoes, the man, highly skilled, has priced himself out of that repair market...I don't expect him to charge less, but even he acknowledges that it would be silly to pay him the cost of new shoes to fix the old ones...

    The northern unions thought they ran the world, and they did, until forces beyond their control ran them...Eastern Airlines went bankrupt because their mechanics, already the highest paid in the industry at the time, wanted more...

    We, as a society need to evolve, but the individual fights change, unions ebing the worst of them all, because they have a union management telling them that they will rule the world when it is the world that (eventually) rules them...
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Boating season is short up north, summer is here, maybe 16 weekends, then back in storage..I always figured that gas was the smallest expense of the boating season..Summer dockage, winter storage, and insurance usually topped the list..Food and booze round out the list and the getaway weekends where the kids stayed on the boat and we got the motel room..

    After going through 24 boats, I took up golf, joining a private club 40 miles from the house, and played at least 3 times a week, sometimes I did 4 or 5 rounds over the 7 days..

    My boating favorites were the 27' Magnum Sport, 24' Donzi Doral both with T-280 w/TRS outdrives, 28' Cigarette with T-280w/TRS drives, 21' Maurader w/350 hp, Holman-Moody 351 Ford w/Volvo OD..3-30' Sea Rays with all I/B power, 1968-36' CC Corvette w/T-427 Fords and a 25.5' Formula w/T-260s, w/ raised outdrives using cleaver props..plus various other SeaRays ranging from 26' to 32' that were bought on speculation never moved, resold off of dealers lot..Paid winter storage on only 3 boats, 36' ChrisCraft, 25.5 Formula, and the 21' Maurader.. The Chris was sold during the winter, and the Formula was sold after 33 hrs of total running hrs with the Formula factory finally replacing the hull using the original engines.3 yr deal of attorney bills..

    The upside to this posting is that I have always been heavy on supporting products made in the USA by American owned and based manufacturers..Total boats owned thru 1986 is 24..Car total to date is 53, with 51 Big3 jobbies, and 2 Porsches..

    I have found golf much cheaper than boating, however if I unload my Michigan real estate holdings before old age does me in, my first choice will be something of 24' with 2 Big Merc O/Bs---final blast.. Here in Venice, Fla..

    Buy American Brands, not from the Asian guys with the "Made in America" hype....Wise up folks, and stop the money flow to foreign lands..
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Buy American Brands, not from the Asian guys with the "Made in America" hype....Wise up folks, and stop the money flow to foreign lands..

    Great idea! And OUr brands based in Detroilet should also compromise and pull all their operations from

    China,
    Mexico,
    Canada,
    Korea,
    India,
    Austria,
    Germany,
    Australia,
    France,
    Indonesia,
    Hungary,
    Brasil,
    Uzbekistan,
    Thailand,

    and any other locations as well so we can stop investing in foriegn lands to peddle our product. They should all be buying global cars from global automakers, not ones from protectionist America! :D
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    unemployment stats are very much propaganda, manipulated to paint a rosier picture.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,062
    I've seen stats that state 1 in 3 men, age 16 to 65, are currently not working. That's pretty scary. Now, it's probably inflated a bit, because most 16-22 year olds are probably not working, at least not full time, and once you get to age 50-55, I'm sure a lot of people are managing to retire early, go out on disability (fake or otherwise) etc. Still, I imagine the results for that prime area of, say, 25-55, still don't look to rosy.
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    I have to wonder, why are unions not ok for private sector, but ok for public sector state,federal jobs? You have to wonder how many of those union state employees own a vehicle made by a union car company. Or, why they wouldn't buy a car from a union car company to begin with?? See a relation here?
    As you can tell, I am not a union supporter. However, I try to buy American made products and services every chance I get. This IS important if you can think past the now. Think into the future and how it affects you when you spend your money. We are a society of short term thinkers and it is killing the economic stability of this nation and its future. There is not a day that goes by that I debate with someone, somewhere in another chat room about how important it is to keep your money close to home. At the end, 99% of the time I get them to THINK. They get it, understand and will try to buy U.S. made goods and services.
    Once again, I bought an American made WEBER grill this season. Over the internet, no shipping fee. Sure it took 5 days to get here.. So what. I did not buy one of those Chinese made grills from Home Depot or Lowes. I feel great about my purchase, love the grill. I know I kept an American working.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    I can believe it. Some of it is simple enough for the reasons you say - the very young and older not working, but there are issues in the middle too. New world economy, aint it grand.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    And you have much less chance of poisons leeching into your food from the contaminated materials in the grill.

    I suspect many who rail against unions benefit from bloated public sector perks in one way or another.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited June 2011
    And you have much less chance of poisons leeching into your food from the contaminated materials in the grill.

    Really? Would that even happen? I would think there would be some sort of EPA regulation or testing to make sure that wouldn't be allowed to sell here...

    Congrats on the Weber btw, great grills. Mine is 7 years old and still works like brand new, even tho I did buy it at Lowes :blush:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,543
    Yes, regulations stopped other poison Chinese made sweatshop junk from being sold here. Consumer beware.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Those Char-Broil grilles are Chinese? Thanks for the warning! I'm still cooking 'em up on an old-school charcoal grille - Made in U.S.A. of course!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited June 2011
    Those Char-Broil charcoal grills are crap. Weber is by far worth paying for and the only charcoal grill I use.

    Plus they are made in Illinois.
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