We're in Iraq because we want to be there professor. We loved smacking around fascists like the Nipponese and the [non-permissible content removed] in the past, and we love smacking around the fascist Mohammedans today. I've served two tours in Iraq so far, and we don't have a shortage of people who want to re-enlist. There are some problems with recruiting because the average citizen is so misinformed about what is going on in Iraq. This misinformation is due to exposure to media coverage of world affairs, not a lack of it. Also, there are Japanese troops in Iraq. You are probably a typical Japanese xenophobe, and therefore have an innate sympathy for the xenophobic Salafists.
I respect your service to our country, but question your history because to say we smacked around the Japanese and [non-permissible content removed]'s is completely untrue. The [non-permissible content removed]'s were very close to destroying the U.S. A year or 2 extra time and Hitler, would of been sitting in the Oval Office, because the Jet Airplane, Heavy Water, V-2 Rockets would of been able to be produced on a large scale. I guess you need to watch the History Channel and also look at non-american history books to get a real diversified opinion.
I also will say that as much as I love our troops, they were also misinformed about going into Iraq. However ya'll did a superior job and should be proud of your service and it should never be looked down upon since ya'll soldiers didn't call the shots. Perhaps alot of good has came from the Iraq war, but the main reason for going to Iraq in my opinion goes back to oil and having a military presence in the Middle East. Perhaps some agree both are good enough reasons. I guess you will label me an american xenophobe, but I'm not one that is in lock-step with this administration and it's secrecy. Also how many Japanese troops are fighting on the front lines in Iraq ????? I think you already know that answer.....
The Dodge Stealth is the greatest car EVER by Chrysler Corp. It might be the greatest sportscar with a domestic nameplate on it !!!!! I can only dream one day they will build this Exotic SUPERCAR with it's legendary Twin Turbo, and AWD w/ 4-WHEEL STEERING. Some say it was the best handling sports car ever made. I say I want one. It was car made before my time, and someday I'd like to own a copy and I'm still looking for a very low mileage one. I missed one last year that had 18K on it. It was a 95' TT Stealth with a moonroof.
The Dodge Stealth and the Mitsubishi were made on the same assembly line, used all the same parts, and were pretty much identical twins except for the chrome and badging. Mr Iacocca further stated that the rate of complaints against the Dodge was much higher than the Mitsubishi. He was shaking his head and said "the bias Americans have against American made products was real and we had to not only make better cars but have to change the perception Americans have of our cars"....
Fine, but ask yourself why Dodge developed that reputation in the first place. The average consumer came to associate the entire Dodge nameplate with "inferior", while Mitsubishi at that time had a reasonably good reputation for reliability that it had not yet exploited.
So yes, the Stealth got a bit of a bum rap. But given how the other cars with which it shared a marque could be so god-awful, why should that surprise anyone?
Imagine if some burly, well-tattooed ex-con moved in next door to your house. He claims that he has been reformed and rehabilitated, and there are some genuine signs that he really is improving, but you've also observed some things that concern you, so you can't be sure.
In that circumstance, who will you most put your trust in -- another neighbor who has a long established track record in your community for being an upstanding guy, or Mr. Ex Con? Well, in this case, the former prisoner was named Dodge, and needed to understand that winning back trust takes time, effort and repeated, continuous examples of improvement. You have to earn respect, particularly if you previously went out of your way to lose it.
Well their is no doubt the Stealth had it's mechnical woes. However it has grown to be a legend and has a great resale value even though most folks buying one are going to inherit those problems. I do believe Dodge could with Mitsubishi make a very fine Stealth someday. I just hope it doesn't take forever before I get to see one made.
I didn't mean to imply that we had an easy time of it during WWII; Japan and Germany were very strong. By "smacked around," I simply meant defeated. I'm pretty sure that my knowledge of history, or at least military history, is better than yours. There are zero Japanese front line troops in Iraq. We decided long ago that the world was a better place without a strong Japanese military. I was just reminding our Japanese buddy that his country is helping out. We understand that people don't think invading Iraq was the right thing to do. That doesn't bother us. The people who are hoping that things go badly for us in Iraq because they believe that will help put their party back in power do make us ill though. I'm sorry that I've gone off topic. Back to cars. I drive a Mustang, but I think that my next car will be an American built, Japanese car. I like the new Camry SE V6. It has 80% domestic content, and it is built in Kentucky. I look forward to seeing how "sporty" it is.
I like the new Camry SE V6. It has 80% domestic content, and it is built in Kentucky. I look forward to seeing how "sporty" it is.
If the magazines are to be believed, the Camry is a pretty dull ride. If you want a solid, reliable runner that's pleasant but lacking passion, it's a great choice. But given the legacy, if you want a sporty car, I'd consider other cars than that.
If he's dead set on a Toyota, then perhaps he needs to look at the Lexus nameplate like the IS-250 or better yet a IS-350 if his wallett is deep enough.
>The seating position was all wrong, the seat was too low to the ground. The
The Gran Prix has always been a sporty version car. That continues into the current model. The seating position may feel different than whatever car you drive. I sense the same when I sit in a HoToy product. They don't feel right.
>The climate control had buttons that were so small that they were impossible to turn with glove.
The glove idea is convenient for criticism but I doubt many cars would pass that. I can't see using a glove to touch the buttons on my climate controls in my Buicks. I think that is a nice magazine type word-picture that writers may have used that really isn't a worthwhile criticism.
>The point is that GM simply builds very bad and outdated cars
I find my two cars serve me VERY well. They get GREAT gas mileage. They are both very comfortable. I believe you haven't written anything positive in posts about GM so I have to consider that you just don't like GM for some reason. The cars, however, are serving many people just fine without trips to the service bays.
>I just came back from a trip to Indiana
I just drove into Indiana last night and find the car served well, drove well. I passed cars on the flowing, old-fashioned wide two lane country highway with extremely smooth downshifts and lots of power my OHV 3800 motor. It was different than typical expressway and suburban driving. I didn't need to push my climate control buttons with gloves. (Muncie, IN, Sanford and Bottie jazz concert @ BAll State U-in case you think I just made up the Indiana trip).
Different folks want different things from their car. Some want an image in their own mind or in other's perception of them, some want a car they can drive comfortably every day, some want to feel there's a huge motor they're feeding, some want to feel they're economizing with a bunch of electric motor and battery in their car saving gasoline but not saving resources, etc. Each to his own. We may even disagree.
P.S. I'll stop at the Camry and Accord dealers today to see if I can adjust their heater controls with my winter gloves on.
Maybe he should drive the car himself and see if it does what he expects from a car. I don't want him to pick a car based on what the current US magazine writers choose to write about it. They often are biased toward sporty, performance cars, which most people don't buy but are interested in reading about.
It's like the folks watching NASCAR but they would never drive one of those on their own streets in the way NASCAR drivers drive.
Too many people view other cars based on the opinion of mags and TV shows on cable. I liked the Mitsubishi vs Chrysler product post -- they were the same car on the same assembly line!!! Point I've made in the past exactly. People think what they're supposed to think about the US brand cars from the big 3.
"The Dodge Stealth is the greatest car EVER by Chrysler Corp."
That was the funniest thing I've seen in here in a loooooong time.
You do realize that 100% of the mechanicals were Mitsubishi? You do realize that the design was all Mitsubishi? I'd be very surprised if the domestic content on a Dodge Stealth TT exceeded 30%.
"I'd be very surprised if the domestic content on a Dodge Stealth TT exceeded 30%."
Hmmm, seems like I was giving Dodge the benefit of the doubt. Both the Mitsu 3000VR4 and the Dodge Stealth TT came off the same assembly line at Mitsubishi's plant in Nagoya, Japan. The lastest info I could find for domestic content (for the 3000VR4) was 6%.
He's not just kidding. Sometime when your bored take a look at J.D. Powers model by model and see how badge engineered stack up against each other. The Prism and Corolla where never even in the same ballpark. One more reason why I put very little stock in their reports.
"Sometime when your bored take a look at J.D. Powers model by model and see how badge engineered stack up against each other."
To be honest, I'd never really considered that they could have different ratings since they are built by the same workers using the same parts.
Do the J.D. Powers surveys also include dealership experiences (both sales and service) in their rankings? I'm not trying to point fingers; I'm simply trying to find out how owning a Prism could be any different from owning a Corolla.
Nobody claimed anything about the Stealth and 300 except that Americans had many more complaints about the Dodge than the exact same Japanese branded car. Wha??
The Gran Prix has always been a sporty version car. That continues into the current model. The seating position may feel different than whatever car you drive. I sense the same when I sit in a HoToy product. They don't feel right.
Sure one gets used to driving some type of car and then switching to driving a different type of car is hard. My regular car is Ford Expedition and it was very uncomfortable to drive around in the Grand Prix because of its low seating position.
The main reason that I don't like GM cars is because I only get a chance to drive them when I rent a car. My company makes me rent cars from National, and they only have GM cars. This fact alone make me hate driving GM cars. Every time I get into a GM car, it feels like a penalty box. Every time I arrive home and get into my car, I feel like: "Thank God I don't drive that P.O.S. GM car"
As far as climate control knobs and buttons, take a look at Grand Prix and a Honda or Toyota. Compare the size of Grand Prix's knobs with other car manufacturers. They are just tiny.
I knew the Car was built in Japan and had a very low domestic content. Not every car out their I like is American made, and yes the Dodge Stealth was a mitsubishi 3000VR4 with a dodge emblem on it. However the Dodge skin is much better looking in my opinion.
Now that Dodge(DC) no longer has a stake in Mitsubishi, I will never get to see a Stealth again. :sick: :mad: In my opinion it was the ultimate sports car when I was growing up. Maybe someday I will beable to get me a 95' or 96' copy !
You probably own the premium model of your cars trim and probably got a nice asian car. If your driving a rental it's probably a malibu stripped which I agree wouldn't be much fun.
He has posted many many MANY times about the evils of buying 'import' vehicles vs. 'domestic' vehicles.
And then he posted about how much he liked the Dodge Stealth (quote: "The Dodge Stealth is the greatest car EVER by Chrysler Corp. It might be the greatest sportscar with a domestic nameplate on it !!!!!")
I was simply pointing out that the Dodge Stealth is, by ANY reasonable measure, an 'import' (since it was built in Japan with only 6% NA content with all the design being done by Mitsubishi).
My point is that rockylee either:
a) KNEW the Dodge Stealth was an import in which case his desire for a Stealth is hypocritical, OR...
b) DIDN'T know the Dodge Stealth was an import in which case he is ignorant about what constitutes a domestic vs import car, OR...
c) He feels that 'domestic' or 'import' is defined purely by the nameplate on the hunk of plastic glued to the rear tailgate, regardless of where it is actually built or how much NA content it has.
"I knew the Car was built in Japan and had a very low domestic content. Not every car out their I like is American made, and yes the Dodge Stealth was a mitsubishi 3000VR4 with a dodge emblem on it."
Looks like the correct answer was "a".
Now I'm curious: if the Dodge Stealth was still available new in your local Dodge showroom, and you had the means to buy it (assuming you still had the desire), would you buy one? After all, by any reasonable measure, it IS an import.
rorr, Truthfully I would consider it very seriously even though it's a Japanese made car. My fight over the Domestics vs. Japanese cars has been mainly over ya'll calling every Big 3 car a piece of junk when compared to Hoyota. I did love the Stealth, very much and yes it wears a domestic nameplate on it with what you claim is 6% NA content which I'm going to assume is correct with no arguement. I'm not going to say for sure I'd buy one but I'd sure desire to own one.
I guess you could look at that reply as hypocritical, but it's 100% true.
Rocky
P.S. I still have the desire to find a "mint" condition used 94-96 Twin Turbo Stealth that is Black, Yellow, Silver.
I thought most of your argument in this whole mess had to do with currency manipulation, job losses, trade inbalance, etc. etc. etc.
My straightforward reply:
I think someone should buy the best car which meets THEIR criteria (feature content, reliability, performance, value) regardless of where the HQ is located for that company.
Currently, our family owns 2 'imports' (Celica built in Japan; Odyssey built in Alabama). We like them both. I've owned a 'domestic' in the past ('93 Mustang LX5.0) and thought it was a terrific car. I'm seriously considering a Mustang GT for my next car.
My wife has owned a few GM cars in her past; the only one I've had close knowledge of was her Sunbird. It was a POS. At the same time, my parents have owned 2 Audi's. They were even worse (I seriously thought my dad would physically blow a .44 caliber hole clean through the 2nd one while on vacation in NM. My brother and I were on our best behaviour for a number of hours after that incident :surprise:)
My (somewhat rambling) point? There are companies which (on the whole) make great cars, and there are companies which make cruddy cars. One can't always use the address of the corporate HQ to tell which is which. Personally, I prefer to reward a company which builds a really good car which meets my needs for a reasonable price by buying their car. At the same time, I see no reason to reward a company which is selling (IMO) mediocre products simply through some sense of patriotic duty.
Final point: IMO, making a blanket condemnation of the cars offered by a company PURELY because they are an 'import' is just as biased as blanket condemnations just because they are 'domestics'.
I guess perhaps you should buy what you feel is best for you and your family. I have my reasons for buying american domestic cars. I guess because it effects most of my family and their jobs. Perhaps if you had alot of family working for one of the Big 3 you might feel the same ?
I do have a question though. Did Dodge recieve the income off of the Stealth, or did Mitsubishi get the majority of the profit because they made the vehicle ?????
I will agree not all domestic cars are "inferior" some are POS's However some say that European and Asian cars are superior in every category or segment to American cars. The Buick Lucerne has probably gotten the most comparison as of late. I will defend the Lucerne CXS to a ES 350. They both are good quality cars, even though some will call the Lucerne a POS when side by side which absolutely untrue.
>(I seriously thought my dad would physically blow a .44 caliber hole clean through the 2nd one while on vacation in NM
You dad takes a .44 on vacation? WOW. I'll bet you kids never kept asking "Are we there yet?"
Was it legal to carry that gun through all states? I'd worry about getting taken to the woodshed too.
>just as biased as blanket condemnations just because they are 'domestics
Amen. We had an 85 Skyhawk (Sunbird equivalent, right) and it was great. 4-cyl, 4 dr., great car. Now that I think there was one problem in that it was OHC. I've laughed at those criticizing the 3800 since it's an OHV when they said OHC are only real motor GM should put into cars today. I'd forgotten the Skyhawk I ordered with 1.8 Brazilian made OHC. I'll never live that down. But OTOH the dang belt did break at 49000 miles leaving me stranded outside Cincinnati area on a Sunday. I'll never buy another OHC because of the belts.
"I have my reasons for buying american domestic cars. I guess because it effects most of my family and their jobs. Perhaps if you had alot of family working for one of the Big 3 you might feel the same ?"
Same could be said for someone with family working for one of the 'import' brands in this country. Or even one of the American suppliers (over 600 different American suppliers of parts for Toyota). Attempting to discuss these points based on how they affect YOU or your family personally is a losing proposition because they guy you're discussing the issue with could be using the exact same reasons.
"Did Dodge recieve the income off of the Stealth, or did Mitsubishi get the majority of the profit because they made the vehicle ?????"
I honestly don't know. However, given that the R&D was Mitsubishi, the design was Mitsubishi, the assembly was by Mitsubishi in Japan, and the parts were sourced through Mitsubishi (except for the 6% of N.A. domestic content), I think the only profit that Dodge may have received would have been through their part ownership of Mitsubishi. In other words, corporate Dodge probably received as much profit on the sale of Dodge Stealth's as they did on the sale of any other Mitsubishi.
"You dad takes a .44 on vacation? WOW. I'll bet you kids never kept asking "Are we there yet?"
Was it legal to carry that gun through all states? I'd worry about getting taken to the woodshed too."
Off topic but...
This was in the '70s. Yes, something was usually taken on any vacation longer than a day or so (on that trip, it was the Ruger Super Blackhawk). No, there is nothing in world which will keep kids from asking "are we there yet?" You just have to know WHEN to ask.
Yes, it was legal to carry in the car, at least through the states we went through. As far as I know, it is STILL legal to carry firearms in cars (unloaded and locked either in the trunk or out of reach of the passenger compartment).
Oh, we CONSTANTLY knew we might get taken to the woodshed. But firearms had nothing to do with that.
And now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast....
"I'll never buy another OHC because of the belts."
Another blanket statement needing clarification: not all OHC engines use belts. My current car (Celica GTS) with DOHC and variable valve timing uses a timing chain. No replacement required as part of scheduled maintenance...ever.
"However some say that European and Asian cars are superior in every category or segment to American cars."
And, IMO these folks show just as much institutional baseless bias as folks saying that American cars are superior in every category or segment to European and Asian cars. To be fair however, I don't think anyone in this forum has expressed EITHER of these opinions.
Several years I worked with a lady from Vietnam and she and her husband bought a new Buick. She said that all of their friends bought Toyotas and they didn't want to just do what everyone else does.
But OTOH the dang belt did break at 49000 miles leaving me stranded outside Cincinnati area on a Sunday. I'll never buy another OHC because of the belts.
Umm, not all OHC engines use belts. Ford's OHC 4.6 & 5.4L v8 & Duratec v6 use a chain, as does Nissan's OHC v6 & v8s as well as several others. Toyota is converting many of their OHC engines to chains as well.
The automatic transmission died in my Suburban leaving me stranded at 46k miles. Should I avoid automatic transmissions, GM or both?
The automatic transmission died in my Suburban leaving me stranded at 46k miles. Should I avoid automatic transmissions, GM or both?
I'm beginning to come around to the other point of view. I blame the fluctuation of the yen for your failed transmission, clearly it wasn't GM's fault.
I'm beginning to come around to the other point of view. I blame the fluctuation of the yen for your failed transmission, clearly it wasn't GM's fault.
I'd forgotten the Skyhawk I ordered with 1.8 Brazilian made OHC. I'll never live that down. But OTOH the dang belt did break at 49000 miles leaving me stranded outside Cincinnati area on a Sunday. I'll never buy another OHC because of the belts.
What was the service interval to replace the belt? Was it 36k mi, 60k, 90k etc? This would be telling re owner responsibility vs design/engr defect. Which was it?
Have had a number of Honda vehicles driven to very high mileage with OHC and belts. Had belts replaced at prescribed service mileages and never had a problem.
In contrast, was surprised/shocked one day in morning rush hour in left lane of freeway. Engine suddenly lost power, coasted to left shoulder and had to be towed. GM V8 car I was driving, maybe car was 4 yrs old with avg mileage, had plastic gear teeth on timing chain gear. Plastic wore and chain "suddenly" slipped. I then put in a "solid" metal tooth gear bought at parts counter of GM dealer. Parts guy told me that GM screwed up and no longer was putting in plastic tooth gears.
"Should I avoid automatic transmissions, GM or both?"
Ha! Funniest thing I've seen in here in a while. Way ahead of you though dieselone; I've always tried to avoid automatic transmissions (domestic and otherwise) where feasible.
Which brings up a different issue - I personally prefer manual shift transmissions. It's been my experience (admittedly limited) that the manuals offered in Toyotas and Hondas are much nicer than those offered in their domestic counterparts. The Borg Warner unit in my Mustang was okay, but not nearly as smooth as those I've had in the imports.
To be fair though, generally the domestic trannies are dealing with a lot more torque than the manuals generally found in the imports so the transmission/clutch by necessity might feel a bit 'clunkier'. But it seems as though the domestics have placed a LOT more emphasis on slushbox design whereas the imports sweat the details more on the manuals.
Now, I know the sales numbers say that it makes A LOT more sense to develop good automatics. All I'm saying is that generally the 'enthusists' like nice manual trannies and, by and large, these are generally found on the imports.
BTW, I am good friends with a service manager for a local Chevy store in NH. Tranny issues on the big utes are actually pretty common. Most of the time they are improperly maintained but not all the time. Rear axle failure is the biggest hassle with those though and piston slap used to run rampant with the 5.3l ones...
On a positive note, apparently the big utes are some of the MOST reliable GM'ers out there at the moment (based on his dept. history). My gosh, you wanna hear horror stories, the GMT360's (TB/Envoy/Rainier etc...) are outrageous as far as issues go. Crazy stuff happening on those things...
But that's because Consumer reports doesn't like GM products... Sorry to stray of topic.
Let me give you my latest impressions from Gm cars and SUV's: Presently I am driving a rental Trailblazer, and here are my impressions: Exterior: Looks ok, but it is subjective I know, I know, but the gaps between the panels are just horrible. Interior: 1)Looks the same as it did 4 years ago, when I rented it last – NO PROGRESS. Same POS GM plastics, the radio is CRAP, the interior space, compared to my Pathfinder SE, is smaller. 2) The steering wheel is the size of the one in GMC Topkick (26 ft. Truck) What the hell is GM thinking? The steering is vague and has absolutely NO road feel. I hate driving this POS. 3) While the engine might be 4.2 L vortec with 292 HP, it feels like it has 190 HP, because the transmission upshifts too soon, and does not let me reach the power band – so acceleration is HORRIBLE.
The conclusion is: - I would never buy one or recommend it to anyone.
During my last trip I drove the Pontiac GP, and here are my impressions: Large on the outside – surprisingly small in the inside. The seats are so-so, and there is not a whole lot of space in the rear. My Maxima had much better interior and space. The interior is HORRIBLE, the gauges are HUGE and cheap. The controls are smallish and scream CHEAP. The driving was ok. It was relatively quiet and handled ok. But again that electronic GM steering is a POS. I hate that anemic steering feel. My Mazda 3s, is 100 times better car, gets better gas mileage, costs less and handles 100 times better. And did I mention that it has almost as much rear leg room?!
Recently I also rented Chevy Impala LS. – I can sum it up in 3 words – did you guess what they are? It is a POS. Steering is crap, interior is sub par. Smaller than the mid size Altima. Slow 3.5L v6 is barely adequate.
I also drove the Malibu and Malibu maxx. These cars are so pathetic, it’s not even funny. If this is the best main stream cars that GM has to offer – than GM deserves to go down. Don’t tell me about the Buick Lucerne or the Lacross, they both have that stupid GM steering that is just preposterous. GM should go drive Mazda 3 or 6, and see what real steering and handling needs to be. :surprise:
While I too, try to get a manual when buying a car, I do prefer an auto in my SUV. Simply because I have the Suburban to tow my boat. The auto makes things much simpler at the launch ramp. Sometimes I have friends pull the truck and trailer up the ramp, something I wouldn't feel comfortable doing with a manual. I wouldn't want to recreate the "Risky Business" scene of the uboat Porche.
I think you should put a Honda transmission in. Everyone will be happy with that and if it does when it gives you trouble, just keep saying, but it's a Honda so I must be an anomaly.
Regardless of how I really feel, tell me that I am wrong. Go ahead and tell me that GM cars are great, and I’ll give you tons of examples that show that GM cars are sub par. So what if GM makes great trucks and Full size SUV’s. They can’t make a car that’s worth talking about. And please don’t mention the CTS-V, or the Corvette – these are NOT main stream cars that sell 400,000 / year and don’t give me those sales figure that show that CHEVY has outsold everyone – Yeah, but look at their customers: National, Alamo, Avis. I don’t see a lot of private folk , driving those crappy cars.
>replacement interval I really don't know the interval any more. I know it was not 30K. >Plastic timing gear The plastic gears gave quieter running timing chain. That's what the public wanted. I don't know how many people had trouble. I had trouble with 73 Ford Windsor 351 motor at 70K. Service managers told me if it had more than 60K on it it was probably the timing chain/gears. I swore I'd never own another Ford after all the little things that had gone wrong with them through my years of ownership. I ended up winning one which I owned for 9 mos and sold for profit and have never bought one since.
Though many GM faithful talk about the trans issues in Honda's and scruff off any complaints about GM transmissions, the fact remains GM 1/2 ton trucks/Suvs are well know about the trans/rear end issues.
I know have 62k on my Suburban and the rear diff whines between 45-60mph which is very annoying, but not worth the money to fix(I just turn the radio up). According to the trans shop that I had rebuild my transmission, he sees these problems all the time. He has an 04 Avalanche that the trans failed at 8k miles.
I personally know 3 other poeple who have had trans failures in their GM 1/2 ton vehiles under 70k miles.
I agree that there seems to be a problem with the GM longitudinal transmission in some trucks. There shouldn't be; that had been a quality transmission in past at GM.
The differential whines I haven't heard mentioned by those with trucks I know. But I did have differential whines on my Mustangs and a Ford I owned long ago.
Comments
I respect your service to our country, but question your history because to say we smacked around the Japanese and [non-permissible content removed]'s is completely untrue.
The [non-permissible content removed]'s were very close to destroying the U.S.
A year or 2 extra time and Hitler, would of been sitting in the Oval Office, because the Jet Airplane, Heavy Water, V-2 Rockets would of been able to be produced on a large scale. I guess you need to watch the History Channel and also look at non-american history books to get a real diversified opinion.
I also will say that as much as I love our troops, they were also misinformed about going into Iraq. However ya'll did a superior job and should be proud of your service and it should never be looked down upon since ya'll soldiers didn't call the shots.
That's my 2 cents.
Rocky
Please Dodge make the Stealth :shades:
Rocky
Fine, but ask yourself why Dodge developed that reputation in the first place. The average consumer came to associate the entire Dodge nameplate with "inferior", while Mitsubishi at that time had a reasonably good reputation for reliability that it had not yet exploited.
So yes, the Stealth got a bit of a bum rap. But given how the other cars with which it shared a marque could be so god-awful, why should that surprise anyone?
Imagine if some burly, well-tattooed ex-con moved in next door to your house. He claims that he has been reformed and rehabilitated, and there are some genuine signs that he really is improving, but you've also observed some things that concern you, so you can't be sure.
In that circumstance, who will you most put your trust in -- another neighbor who has a long established track record in your community for being an upstanding guy, or Mr. Ex Con? Well, in this case, the former prisoner was named Dodge, and needed to understand that winning back trust takes time, effort and repeated, continuous examples of improvement. You have to earn respect, particularly if you previously went out of your way to lose it.
Rocky
There are zero Japanese front line troops in Iraq. We decided long ago that the world was a better place without a strong Japanese military. I was just reminding our Japanese buddy that his country is helping out.
We understand that people don't think invading Iraq was the right thing to do. That doesn't bother us. The people who are hoping that things go badly for us in Iraq because they believe that will help put their party back in power do make us ill though.
I'm sorry that I've gone off topic. Back to cars. I drive a Mustang, but I think that my next car will be an American built, Japanese car. I like the new Camry SE V6. It has 80% domestic content, and it is built in Kentucky. I look forward to seeing how "sporty" it is.
If the magazines are to be believed, the Camry is a pretty dull ride. If you want a solid, reliable runner that's pleasant but lacking passion, it's a great choice. But given the legacy, if you want a sporty car, I'd consider other cars than that.
What is it about the Camry that is so appealing ???? Are you going to test drive or look at any domestic alternatives ????
Rocky
Rocky
The Gran Prix has always been a sporty version car. That continues into the current model. The seating position may feel different than whatever car you drive. I sense the same when I sit in a HoToy product. They don't feel right.
>The climate control had buttons that were so small that they were impossible to turn with glove.
The glove idea is convenient for criticism but I doubt many cars would pass that. I can't see using a glove to touch the buttons on my climate controls in my Buicks. I think that is a nice magazine type word-picture that writers may have used that really isn't a worthwhile criticism.
>The point is that GM simply builds very bad and outdated cars
I find my two cars serve me VERY well. They get GREAT gas mileage. They are both very comfortable. I believe you haven't written anything positive in posts about GM so I have to consider that you just don't like GM for some reason. The cars, however, are serving many people just fine without trips to the service bays.
>I just came back from a trip to Indiana
I just drove into Indiana last night and find the car served well, drove well. I passed cars on the flowing, old-fashioned wide two lane country highway with extremely smooth downshifts and lots of power my OHV 3800 motor. It was different than typical expressway and suburban driving. I didn't need to push my climate control buttons with gloves. (Muncie, IN, Sanford and Bottie jazz concert @ BAll State U-in case you think I just made up the Indiana trip).
Different folks want different things from their car. Some want an image in their own mind or in other's perception of them, some want a car they can drive comfortably every day, some want to feel there's a huge motor they're feeding, some want to feel they're economizing with a bunch of electric motor and battery in their car saving gasoline but not saving resources, etc. Each to his own. We may even disagree.
P.S. I'll stop at the Camry and Accord dealers today to see if I can adjust their heater controls with my winter gloves on.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe he should drive the car himself and see if it does what he expects from a car. I don't want him to pick a car based on what the current US magazine writers choose to write about it. They often are biased toward sporty, performance cars, which most people don't buy but are interested in reading about.
It's like the folks watching NASCAR but they would never drive one of those on their own streets in the way NASCAR drivers drive.
Too many people view other cars based on the opinion of mags and TV shows on cable. I liked the Mitsubishi vs Chrysler product post -- they were the same car on the same assembly line!!! Point I've made in the past exactly. People think what they're supposed to think about the US brand cars from the big 3.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That was the funniest thing I've seen in here in a loooooong time.
You do realize that 100% of the mechanicals were Mitsubishi? You do realize that the design was all Mitsubishi? I'd be very surprised if the domestic content on a Dodge Stealth TT exceeded 30%.
Hmmm, seems like I was giving Dodge the benefit of the doubt. Both the Mitsu 3000VR4 and the Dodge Stealth TT came off the same assembly line at Mitsubishi's plant in Nagoya, Japan. The lastest info I could find for domestic content (for the 3000VR4) was 6%.
http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/1998/gap9828.html
6% Domestic Content
So, rockylee's favorite all-time 'domestic' sportscar had....6% domestic content and was built in Japan. Priceless.
I think some people really are blinded by what nameplate appears on a $0.50 hunk of plastic glued to the decklid.
To be honest, I'd never really considered that they could have different ratings since they are built by the same workers using the same parts.
Do the J.D. Powers surveys also include dealership experiences (both sales and service) in their rankings? I'm not trying to point fingers; I'm simply trying to find out how owning a Prism could be any different from owning a Corolla.
Sure one gets used to driving some type of car and then switching to driving a different type of car is hard. My regular car is Ford Expedition and it was very uncomfortable to drive around in the Grand Prix because of its low seating position.
The main reason that I don't like GM cars is because I only get a chance to drive them when I rent a car. My company makes me rent cars from National, and they only have GM cars. This fact alone make me hate driving GM cars. Every time I get into a GM car, it feels like a penalty box. Every time I arrive home and get into my car, I feel like: "Thank God I don't drive that P.O.S. GM car"
As far as climate control knobs and buttons, take a look at Grand Prix and a Honda or Toyota. Compare the size of Grand Prix's knobs with other car manufacturers. They are just tiny.
Now that Dodge(DC) no longer has a stake in Mitsubishi, I will never get to see a Stealth again.
Rocky
You probably own the premium model of your cars trim and probably got a nice asian car. If your driving a rental it's probably a malibu stripped which I agree wouldn't be much fun.
Rocky
He has posted many many MANY times about the evils of buying 'import' vehicles vs. 'domestic' vehicles.
And then he posted about how much he liked the Dodge Stealth (quote: "The Dodge Stealth is the greatest car EVER by Chrysler Corp. It might be the greatest sportscar with a domestic nameplate on it !!!!!")
I was simply pointing out that the Dodge Stealth is, by ANY reasonable measure, an 'import' (since it was built in Japan with only 6% NA content with all the design being done by Mitsubishi).
My point is that rockylee either:
a) KNEW the Dodge Stealth was an import in which case his desire for a Stealth is hypocritical, OR...
b) DIDN'T know the Dodge Stealth was an import in which case he is ignorant about what constitutes a domestic vs import car, OR...
c) He feels that 'domestic' or 'import' is defined purely by the nameplate on the hunk of plastic glued to the rear tailgate, regardless of where it is actually built or how much NA content it has.
Looks like the correct answer was "a".
Now I'm curious: if the Dodge Stealth was still available new in your local Dodge showroom, and you had the means to buy it (assuming you still had the desire), would you buy one? After all, by any reasonable measure, it IS an import.
I guess you could look at that reply as hypocritical, but it's 100% true.
Rocky
P.S. I still have the desire to find a "mint" condition used 94-96 Twin Turbo Stealth that is Black, Yellow, Silver.
I thought most of your argument in this whole mess had to do with currency manipulation, job losses, trade inbalance, etc. etc. etc.
My straightforward reply:
I think someone should buy the best car which meets THEIR criteria (feature content, reliability, performance, value) regardless of where the HQ is located for that company.
Currently, our family owns 2 'imports' (Celica built in Japan; Odyssey built in Alabama). We like them both. I've owned a 'domestic' in the past ('93 Mustang LX5.0) and thought it was a terrific car. I'm seriously considering a Mustang GT for my next car.
My wife has owned a few GM cars in her past; the only one I've had close knowledge of was her Sunbird. It was a POS. At the same time, my parents have owned 2 Audi's. They were even worse (I seriously thought my dad would physically blow a .44 caliber hole clean through the 2nd one while on vacation in NM. My brother and I were on our best behaviour for a number of hours after that incident :surprise:)
My (somewhat rambling) point? There are companies which (on the whole) make great cars, and there are companies which make cruddy cars. One can't always use the address of the corporate HQ to tell which is which. Personally, I prefer to reward a company which builds a really good car which meets my needs for a reasonable price by buying their car. At the same time, I see no reason to reward a company which is selling (IMO) mediocre products simply through some sense of patriotic duty.
Final point: IMO, making a blanket condemnation of the cars offered by a company PURELY because they are an 'import' is just as biased as blanket condemnations just because they are 'domestics'.
I do have a question though. Did Dodge recieve the income off of the Stealth, or did Mitsubishi get the majority of the profit because they made the vehicle ?????
I will agree not all domestic cars are "inferior" some are POS's
My 4 cents
Rocky
You dad takes a .44 on vacation? WOW. I'll bet you kids never kept asking "Are we there yet?"
Was it legal to carry that gun through all states? I'd worry about getting taken to the woodshed too.
>just as biased as blanket condemnations just because they are 'domestics
Amen. We had an 85 Skyhawk (Sunbird equivalent, right) and it was great. 4-cyl, 4 dr., great car. Now that I think there was one problem in that it was OHC. I've laughed at those criticizing the 3800 since it's an OHV when they said OHC are only real motor GM should put into cars today. I'd forgotten the Skyhawk I ordered with 1.8 Brazilian made OHC. I'll never live that down. But OTOH the dang belt did break at 49000 miles leaving me stranded outside Cincinnati area on a Sunday. I'll never buy another OHC because of the belts.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Chevy Vega was OHC.
The Chevy Vega was OHC.
It seems that some manufacturers do a better job with OHC than do others...
Same could be said for someone with family working for one of the 'import' brands in this country. Or even one of the American suppliers (over 600 different American suppliers of parts for Toyota). Attempting to discuss these points based on how they affect YOU or your family personally is a losing proposition because they guy you're discussing the issue with could be using the exact same reasons.
"Did Dodge recieve the income off of the Stealth, or did Mitsubishi get the majority of the profit because they made the vehicle ?????"
I honestly don't know. However, given that the R&D was Mitsubishi, the design was Mitsubishi, the assembly was by Mitsubishi in Japan, and the parts were sourced through Mitsubishi (except for the 6% of N.A. domestic content), I think the only profit that Dodge may have received would have been through their part ownership of Mitsubishi. In other words, corporate Dodge probably received as much profit on the sale of Dodge Stealth's as they did on the sale of any other Mitsubishi.
Was it legal to carry that gun through all states? I'd worry about getting taken to the woodshed too."
Off topic but...
This was in the '70s. Yes, something was usually taken on any vacation longer than a day or so (on that trip, it was the Ruger Super Blackhawk). No, there is nothing in world which will keep kids from asking "are we there yet?" You just have to know WHEN to ask.
Yes, it was legal to carry in the car, at least through the states we went through. As far as I know, it is STILL legal to carry firearms in cars (unloaded and locked either in the trunk or out of reach of the passenger compartment).
Oh, we CONSTANTLY knew we might get taken to the woodshed. But firearms had nothing to do with that.
And now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast....
"I'll never buy another OHC because of the belts."
Another blanket statement needing clarification: not all OHC engines use belts. My current car (Celica GTS) with DOHC and variable valve timing uses a timing chain. No replacement required as part of scheduled maintenance...ever.
And, IMO these folks show just as much institutional baseless bias as folks saying that American cars are superior in every category or segment to European and Asian cars. To be fair however, I don't think anyone in this forum has expressed EITHER of these opinions.
Umm, not all OHC engines use belts. Ford's OHC 4.6 & 5.4L v8 & Duratec v6 use a chain, as does Nissan's OHC v6 & v8s as well as several others. Toyota is converting many of their OHC engines to chains as well.
The automatic transmission died in my Suburban leaving me stranded at 46k miles. Should I avoid automatic transmissions, GM or both?
I'm beginning to come around to the other point of view. I blame the fluctuation of the yen for your failed transmission, clearly it wasn't GM's fault.
LOL!!!! Bye golly, I think your right...:)
What was the service interval to replace the belt? Was it 36k mi, 60k, 90k etc? This would be telling re owner responsibility vs design/engr defect. Which was it?
Have had a number of Honda vehicles driven to very high mileage with OHC and belts. Had belts replaced at prescribed service mileages and never had a problem.
In contrast, was surprised/shocked one day in morning rush hour in left lane of freeway. Engine suddenly lost power, coasted to left shoulder and had to be towed. GM V8 car I was driving, maybe car was 4 yrs old with avg mileage, had plastic gear teeth on timing chain gear. Plastic wore and chain "suddenly" slipped. I then put in a "solid" metal tooth gear bought at parts counter of GM dealer. Parts guy told me that GM screwed up and no longer was putting in plastic tooth gears.
Ha! Funniest thing I've seen in here in a while. Way ahead of you though dieselone; I've always tried to avoid automatic transmissions (domestic and otherwise) where feasible.
Which brings up a different issue - I personally prefer manual shift transmissions. It's been my experience (admittedly limited) that the manuals offered in Toyotas and Hondas are much nicer than those offered in their domestic counterparts. The Borg Warner unit in my Mustang was okay, but not nearly as smooth as those I've had in the imports.
To be fair though, generally the domestic trannies are dealing with a lot more torque than the manuals generally found in the imports so the transmission/clutch by necessity might feel a bit 'clunkier'. But it seems as though the domestics have placed a LOT more emphasis on slushbox design whereas the imports sweat the details more on the manuals.
Now, I know the sales numbers say that it makes A LOT more sense to develop good automatics. All I'm saying is that generally the 'enthusists' like nice manual trannies and, by and large, these are generally found on the imports.
On a positive note, apparently the big utes are some of the MOST reliable GM'ers out there at the moment (based on his dept. history). My gosh, you wanna hear horror stories, the GMT360's (TB/Envoy/Rainier etc...) are outrageous as far as issues go. Crazy stuff happening on those things...
But that's because Consumer reports doesn't like GM products...
Personally, we're driving Ohio, California, and Kentucky built Hondas and Toyotas.
Have not owned a Mexican or Canadian mfg'd vehicle yet...are they any good?
Presently I am driving a rental Trailblazer, and here are my impressions:
Exterior:
Looks ok, but it is subjective I know, I know, but the gaps between the panels are just horrible.
Interior:
1)Looks the same as it did 4 years ago, when I rented it last – NO PROGRESS. Same POS GM plastics, the radio is CRAP, the interior space, compared to my Pathfinder SE, is smaller.
2) The steering wheel is the size of the one in GMC Topkick (26 ft. Truck)
What the hell is GM thinking? The steering is vague and has absolutely NO road feel.
I hate driving this POS.
3) While the engine might be 4.2 L vortec with 292 HP, it feels like it has 190 HP, because the transmission upshifts too soon, and does not let me reach the power band – so acceleration is HORRIBLE.
The conclusion is: - I would never buy one or recommend it to anyone.
During my last trip I drove the Pontiac GP, and here are my impressions:
Large on the outside – surprisingly small in the inside. The seats are so-so, and there is not a whole lot of space in the rear. My Maxima had much better interior and space.
The interior is HORRIBLE, the gauges are HUGE and cheap. The controls are smallish and scream CHEAP. The driving was ok. It was relatively quiet and handled ok.
But again that electronic GM steering is a POS. I hate that anemic steering feel. My Mazda 3s, is 100 times better car, gets better gas mileage, costs less and handles 100 times better. And did I mention that it has almost as much rear leg room?!
Recently I also rented Chevy Impala LS. – I can sum it up in 3 words – did you guess what they are? It is a POS.
Steering is crap, interior is sub par. Smaller than the mid size Altima.
Slow 3.5L v6 is barely adequate.
I also drove the Malibu and Malibu maxx. These cars are so pathetic, it’s not even funny.
If this is the best main stream cars that GM has to offer – than GM deserves to go down.
Don’t tell me about the Buick Lucerne or the Lacross, they both have that stupid GM steering that is just preposterous.
GM should go drive Mazda 3 or 6, and see what real steering and handling needs to be. :surprise:
Hey, you stole my line!
While I too, try to get a manual when buying a car, I do prefer an auto in my SUV. Simply because I have the Suburban to tow my boat. The auto makes things much simpler at the launch ramp. Sometimes I have friends pull the truck and trailer up the ramp, something I wouldn't feel comfortable doing with a manual. I wouldn't want to recreate the "Risky Business" scene of the uboat Porche.
I think you should put a Honda transmission in. Everyone will be happy with that and
if it doeswhen it gives you trouble, just keep saying, but it's a Honda so I must be an anomaly.2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Go ahead and tell me that GM cars are great, and I’ll give you tons of examples that show that GM cars are sub par.
So what if GM makes great trucks and Full size SUV’s.
They can’t make a car that’s worth talking about.
And please don’t mention the CTS-V, or the Corvette – these are NOT main stream cars that sell 400,000 / year and don’t give me those sales figure that show that CHEVY has outsold everyone – Yeah, but look at their customers: National, Alamo, Avis. I don’t see a lot of private folk , driving those crappy cars.
I really don't know the interval any more. I know it was not 30K.
>Plastic timing gear
The plastic gears gave quieter running timing chain. That's what the public wanted. I don't know how many people had trouble. I had trouble with 73 Ford Windsor 351 motor at 70K. Service managers told me if it had more than 60K on it it was probably the timing chain/gears. I swore I'd never own another Ford after all the little things that had gone wrong with them through my years of ownership. I ended up winning one which I owned for 9 mos and sold for profit and have never bought one since.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I know have 62k on my Suburban and the rear diff whines between 45-60mph which is very annoying, but not worth the money to fix(I just turn the radio up). According to the trans shop that I had rebuild my transmission, he sees these problems all the time. He has an 04 Avalanche that the trans failed at 8k miles.
I personally know 3 other poeple who have had trans failures in their GM 1/2 ton vehiles under 70k miles.
The differential whines I haven't heard mentioned by those with trucks I know. But I did have differential whines on my Mustangs and a Ford I owned long ago.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,