Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2012
    "6-out-of-10 manufacturers managed to reduce their warranty accrual rates" in 2011, per Warranty Week.

    Some of that is pushing warranty claims costs onto the suppliers, but mostly it's improving quality.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I believe near death experiences tend to change behavior. D3 experienced that a few years back and I've got to say that the D3 rentals I've had lately are very nice and really pretty similar to my Toyota and Honda. I'm still not sure about Chrysler, but I'd be very comfortable getting a relatively new design, or redesign Ford or GM.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Do folks actually consider Chrysler American?

    Being owned by Fiat in Italy, I don't. But I am liking the things that the merger has done and it seems that with Chryslers sales on a major upswing, others are as well. I am seriously shopping the new JGC for instance. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I really like the 300-C. Been thinking of one as a replacement for my aging Grand Marquis.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    I really like the 300-C. Been thinking of one as a replacement for my aging Grand Marquis.

    And I keep thinking about the Charger. Or, if I want to go more frugal, maybe the 2013 Dart when it comes out, if I find it big enough inside for my tastes.

    If I wanted a brand-new pickup, I'd go with a Ram in a heartbeat!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Glad to see the Dart is back on your radar again. All this talk about the Altima had me concerned. I can't see a Mopar-Poncho guy in a Nissan. If I were to get a truck, it would be a toss-up between a Silverado and a Ram.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There was a good segment on 60 minutes that featured Marchionne. Worth watching, I think you can find it on YouTube if you look.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    edited April 2012
    All this talk about the Altima had me concerned. I can't see a Mopar-Poncho guy in a Nissan.

    Well honestly, that's going to depend on how much my Mom and stepdad want for their '08 Altima, or even if they still want to sell it. They haven't brought the subject up lately. And honestly, I think they're kinda dumb for what they want to do...replace their paid-off Altima and their '98 Expedition with something like an Escape. Their rationale is that while it won't get the economy of the Altima, it'll still get better mileage than the Expedition, still have some versatility, and they think it'll be strong enough to pull their boat.

    If I were to get a truck, it would be a toss-up between a Silverado and a Ram.

    I'm starting to like the style of the current Silverado less and less, as the years go by. I do like the GMC Sierra though. I think I'd pick it over the Silverado simply because I think it looks better! The F-150 does seem intriguing, with its new, high-tech, economical engines, but I worry about all that complexity as it ages.

    As for the Dart, I found this page, which lists a bunch of preliminary specs. If these specs are correct, the passenger cabin is actually a bit roomier than a Cruze, or the outgoing Malibu, although it comes up short in trunk space.

    That site lists it as having 58.2" of shoulder room up front, which if accurate, is VERY generous for a car in that size class. For comparison, my old '68 Dart only had about 56", as did my '89 Gran Fury, '86 Monte Carlo, and '82 Cutlass Supreme. My '80 Malibu coupe had about 57". I think my Intrepid had a little over 59", as does my Park Ave. And my '76 LeMans has 59.6"

    So, maybe Mopar should dust off some of their old 60's advertising, which had the gist of quit playing around with kiddie car compacts and get a REAL car, a Dart!
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,590
    It's ironic that of the top midsize cars in America, the only one not built in the USA is from Ford.

    Toyota makes the Camry in Kentucky
    Nissan makes the Altima in TN
    Honda makes the Accord in OH
    Hyundai makes the Sonata in AL

    But Ford is making the 2013 Fusion in Mexico.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wal~Mart's Customers Running Out of Money

    This is what happens when you gut America's industrial sector so much nobody can even afford the cheap imported junk you offer!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2012
    Not to mention bigcorp paying low retail wages and limiting hours so they can limit benefits. :P

    One thing I've noticed is that cashiers at WallyWorld look more like "the people of Walmart" than they used to.

    Too bad Walmart didn't figure out how to sell cars. That would lower the cost of living.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    And if those cars were made by our most favored trading partner criminal, they might lower the length of living, too. I wonder what old Sam is thinking from beyond the grave...probably not smiling...
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,374
    The May 2012 issue of Thoroughbred & Classic Cars contains a buying guide for the W110/111, as well as a 40th Anniversary Celebration of the 3.0 CSL and Batmobile.
    And to keep things on topic, my son was interested in finding a late '60s- early '70s vintage US musclecar to restore and cruise around in as a father-son project. Fortunately the same issue of T&CC also has an article on the Jensen Interceptor- and it took virtually no coaxing to convince my son that an Interceptor III would make a much more unique and entertaining semi-collectable.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    I'll have to take a look at that, thanks for the tip, sounds interesting - the cars are worth a bit more in blighty.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    I'm not sure that with modern technology and QA there is much difference in any car build quality these days

    >>>>________________

    How's that QA working for GM where they forgot to put brake pads on some new Sonics. That line sounds like it came from the 1990 Marketing Playbook of Chrysler. The more things change, the more they really stay just the same.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    What about Ford's issues with the dual clutch automated transmission in the new Focus. Early reviews are below lamentable... once could say they are deplorable.

    Why didn't Ford just pay VW/Audi for the DSG tranny they perfected 7 years ago, and be done with it? Here is another example of the Big 3 lagging behind and being unable to catch up.

    Apple barely existed 7 years ago, and look where they are now.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Why didn't Ford just pay VW/Audi for the DSG tranny they perfected 7 years ago, and be done with it? Here is another example of the Big 3 lagging behind and being unable to catch up.

    No kidding. At first, I thought it was cool Ford was using dual clutch transmissions, but in the back of my mind, I figured it would have teething issues. This is an American auto manufacturer we're talking about. They always half [non-permissible content removed] it in one way or another.

    That's a primary reason I haven't bought a new f150 yet. I really like the ecoboost on test drives, but even being a "Ford" fan, I'm not brave enough to be an early adopter. Hell, Ford finally just recently figured out how to properly design spark plugs and threads in the heads of the outgoing 5.4. That debacle cost me some coin, I can only imagine what kind of headaches direct injection and twin turbo chargers can create.

    On a positive note, a friend bought one last summer and he's at 10k miles and zero issues. A few others I know in my boating/camping circle have recently traded in Silverados for Ecoboost f150s, so at least I'll see first hand if they stay happy or not.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You are right in pointing out Ford has plenty of issues too, not just GM - and a lot of it appears to eminate from engineering. In all fairness, Toyota, Honda and Nissan have had a few recently as well. All these dumb little things st GM - its hard to tell if they are engineering or sloppy UAW workmanship? Sometimes I think the UAW thinks they get a free pass since Obama gave them all that special treatment in BK.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'm with you. Turbo's in Detroit don't have a good history. Engineering has improved, but I'd probably wait a few years to make sure it really will hold up. Japan has an advantage that often they test and prove out new technologies over there before bringing them to the US. Did you ever notice how much cheaper Toyota sells a company extended warranty than D3? Maybe Detroit uses it as a dealer pack, or maybe...
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Never really looked up the differences on warranty costs. My inlaws got a decent deal on a 100k extended warranty on their 05 Camry. It was a waste of money as they never used it.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    Getting an extended warranty on a Toyota or Honda is like buying life insurance EXCLUDING all forms of death other than electrocution via lightning strike.

    In other words, a complete waste of money as you pointed out.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Maybe for many...but a good friend of mine who bought a new Accord V6 (auto), bought a 100K warranty, maintained by the book never abused, had a transmission failure at 70K miles. The warranty more than paid for itself.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Generally, I agree. But if you are going to keep it for a long time (6,7, 8 yrs) and run very tight monthly cash flow, a reasonably priced, company sponsored one might sometimes make sense. Trannies, A/C, ABS, etc are usually four figure repairs these days because everything is now a complete module and labor rates can exceed $100/hr flat rate. Personally, I'm not into hybrids, but if you are and keep it awhile, again it might make sense. I know Toyota allows transfer if you sell your vehicle and also prorates a refund if you don't keep it the whole warranty length, so that does mitigate some potential cost as well. I'm not sure many other companies are that liberal though.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    edited April 2012
    Maybe for many...but a good friend of mine who bought a new Accord V6 (auto), bought a 100K warranty, maintained by the book never abused, had a transmission failure at 70K miles.

    ________________

    Ahhh, the dreaded Auto transmission from HOnda that wasn't built for V6's with over 200 HP. I had that issue too, only mine was at 42K miles. I didn't buy the extended warranty, and Honda paid for it anyway. Honda is known for stepping up to the plate and providing excellent goodwill repairs.

    Of course, I'm sure they take into account the type of customer, maintenance/service records, and other variables, but I know I'm not that only one that got a freebie "100K" warranty from Honda.

    My theory is if I have to pay extra for an extended warranty you've already lost 99% of my business. I like things and brands that don't require extended warranties.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    How long do extended warranties usually go for these days? Back when I bought my 2000 Intrepid, it just had a 3/36K bumper-to-bumper, so I bought an extended warranty that took it to 5 years, 100,000 miles.

    As it turns out, I never needed to use the warranty (don't faint, andres3 :P ) but it did give me some peace-of-mind. As it turns out, I ended up hitting 36000 miles after about 13 months. But, soon after, I quit my second job delivering pizzas, so the miles tapered off quite a bit after that. The 5 year mark came up on November 6, 2004, and I remember hit hit 100,000 miles on Christmas eve. In fact, I even took a pic to commemorate!
    image

    Anyway, I'm toying with the idea of buying a new Ram, which I believe has a bumper-to-bumper of 3/36K, but the powertrain is warrantied through 5 years/100K miles.

    If I do buy it, I doubt that it'll get driven more than 5-6,000 miles per year, so I'm thinking about skipping on any extended warranty.

    FWIW, when my buddy bought his 2006 Xterra, he got an extended warranty that I thought took it out to 8 years or 120,000 miles, but now he says it's only 6 years or 120,000 miles. If that's true, then it could be expired already, as the 6 year anniversary is sometime in April.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    FWIW, when my buddy bought his 2006 Xterra, he got an extended warranty that I thought took it out to 8 years or 120,000 miles, but now he says it's only 6 years or 120,000 miles. If that's true, then it could be expired already, as the 6 year anniversary is sometime in April.

    )0)>>>>>>>>>>________

    I think you just cursed your friend into have a major problem in May. Report back in June on that Xterra please! hahahah. :P
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,038
    think you just cursed your friend into have a major problem in May. Report back in June on that Xterra please! hahahah

    Good lord, I hope I didn't just jinx him!

    Anyway, it has about 89,000 miles on it now, and has been pretty good so far. No powertrain issues to speak of, but the extended warranty has come in handy. He's had two tire pressure sensors fail, and it's needed HVAC work a couple times.

    Oh, my 2000 Park Ave dodge a bullet this week. It had to go in for emissions testing, with today being the deadline before a late fee kicked in. My roommate was off on Tuesday, and took it in for me. Yesterday morning, on my way into work, the check engine light came on! :mad: Thankfully it didn't come before the test, or the car would have failed! And, luckily, this morning, the light happened to go off when I went around a sharp corner.

    I wonder if the emissions test triggered the light somehow? For instance, perhaps the attendant opened the gas cap while the car was running, and that somehow had a delayed effect? Or, God forbid, I hope my car didn't catch a virus from their OBD-II scanner! :surprise:
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    of cars and the costs for major repairs, I am an advocate of extended warranties...NOT on toasters, refrigerators or stoves or TVs, but since the cost of major repairs can be quite expensive, and most ext warrantoes I have purchased under $1000, I have peace of mind knowing anything is covered out to 100K miles...plus it covered the rental car, which, at $30/day, often for 3-4 days, that feature alone saved me hundreds of $$, and the potential cost of the repair...

    The 2004 Crown Vic had fewer problems than the 2004 Dodge Ram, which had some trips to the dealer and stayed for awhile...one problem was a wheel bearing problem on the right front that required the replacement of the caliper, two rotors (F & R), hub, and some other parts...I feel that the ext warranty was worth the money...

    Like life insurance, where I bet $1000 I will die and they bet $500K that I won't, each year that my heirs don't collect I do not consider a waste of premium...

    If I bought an ext warr and never had a problem, it is still not wasted $$$, simply because one or two major repairs after 60K miles can be VERY expensive if it is engine, tranny or A/C system, or even brake system, plus anything electronic or computer controlled...

    Obviously it comes down to what you are comfortable with...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    The 2004 Crown Vic had fewer problems than the 2004 Dodge Ram,

    __________________>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Well, using those two DOMESTIC cars as an example, yes, I'd say an extended warranty could be useful and adviseable. Heck, I'd have bought one for my '95 Neon if I could go back in time.

    But I'd never get one for a toyota or Honda.

    It would be like paying the same for life insurance on a 70 year old 300 lb 5'9" tall man, as compared to a 20 year old woman who's 5'8 and 120lbs.

    The life insurance is going to be a tiny cost for the woman as compared to the old fat geezer, and hence, so should the extended warranty costs on a domestic vs. foreign.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    edited April 2012
    Heck, my mother bought a warranty with her Camry 2 years ago. A 4 cylinder Camry will probably run on kerosene and will last forever so long as you change the oil - but she just had to have "peace of mind" (and was coming out of a Taurus that got glitchy as the years went by).

    Total warranty repairs on that Accord ended up being over 10K, as the dealer messed up something else that had to be fixed soon after the transmission.

    I wouldn't touch any midlife aged (maybe 5-10 years old - any older and you really can't get it anyway) German car without a warranty unless it was insanely cheap.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited April 2012
    Anyway, I'm toying with the idea of buying a new Ram, which I believe has a bumper-to-bumper of 3/36K, but the powertrain is warrantied through 5 years/100K miles.

    I think I'm going to wait until the new Ram and Silverado are out. The Ram definitely looks nice.

    The problem (for me anyway) with the current Ram is it doesn't have enough payload capacity. A CrewCab 4x4 Laramie only has a max payload of 1278lbs (depending on equipment) with a tow rating of 9,850 lbs. I can equip an F150 Ecoboost SuperCrew Lariat 4x4 with a max payload of 1,900lbs with a max tow rating of 11,200lbs.

    The problem is the tongue weight of my camper is over 1k lbs. The tongue weight is deducted from payload rating, so basically, with a current Ram equipped how I'd like would only have a 100lbs or so spare capacity for gear. That's way to close. I'm hoping the 2013 Ram has increased cargo capacity.

    I have been throwing around the idea of buying a used 3/4 ton pickup. I certainly don't want a HD pickup as a daily driver.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    Total warranty repairs on that Accord ended up being over 10K, as the dealer messed up something else that had to be fixed soon after the transmission.

    ______>>>>>>>>>

    If the dealer caused damage during a repair, part of that 10K should be chalked up to negligence and incompetence rework-repairs, not warranty repairs.....

    Sure, if you give me a blow torch, a flame thrower, and bolt cutters, I can do 10K of damage to your vehicle too! That is not a "WARRANTY" repair.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    I wouldn't touch any midlife aged (maybe 5-10 years old - any older and you really can't get it anyway) German car without a warranty unless it was insanely cheap.

    ___________

    Geez... I have an '06 Audi A3 that's now just over 6 years old. Should I start cashing out my 401K's now to prepare to pay for future repairs? :P It's nearing 90K miles... will hit before April is out!

    I'm really not fearful. It's been pretty reliable, and it's holding up well under rigorous use.

    I just got an offer in the mail to trade it in for almost $10,000 dollars from a car dealer (condition = good or better was the caveat). I wouldn't dream of selling it for that little, it's worth more to me now than it is in book value (plus I've put some upgrades into it).

    The key to German cars is to find a qualified, competent, (and hardest of all, an honest) mechanic to work on it.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    edited April 2012
    A 6 year old Audi with 90K on it might have me a little worried, but an A3 is probably the least troublesome model as it is simple - try getting an A6 or A8 up around there with no blood spilled.

    For Audis, I will just put it this way - I don't see many ~15 year old 200K mile models, but I see loads of BMWs and MBs with age and mileage. History has them aging very poorly, but maybe when the brand became trendy about 7 years ago, things started to change.

    Certainly, as they get older, they shouldn't go to the dealer anymore. German dealers usually have such expensive service departments due to huge overhead, that anything out of warranty should go to an indy. There's enough demand for them that good ones exist.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    But at the same time, take it to the dealer and have another failure a week later, good luck proving who did it. With the warranty, it had to be fixed. In his case, that warranty more than paid off. For someone like my mother, she might never make a claim.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    For Audis, I will just put it this way - I don't see many ~15 year old 200K mile models, but I see loads of BMWs and MBs with age and mileage. History has them aging very poorly, but maybe when the brand became trendy about 7 years ago, things started to change.
    __________

    I would say the trend for Audi started to change in 2000, about 12 years ago. To be fair to Audi, they were nearly driven out of the USA by pedal misapplication drivers who tried to blame the car for their driver errors and crashes, and then the whole 60 minutes FIASCO. That is partly why you don't see many old ones; no one bought them new here. I do seem some old Audi's from time to time... the Audi Club in fact has a few people who track 80's and 90's Quattro coupes. My old mechanic whose gone AWOL now over a custom exhaust system issue owned an '81 Audi Coupe GT that ran well enough he lent it to me for a day as a loaner vehicle. Was in pretty good shape for being 30 years old, but he did say to be very delicate to it while driving it.

    As with Toyota, all Audi Unintended Acceleration cases were proven to be driver error/pedal misapplication/floormat issues.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    The Audi unintended acceleration fiasco was certainly driver error. Nearly all claimed cases happened in NA too, not a coincidence.

    Most Audi 4000/5000 are long gone now, the 90/100 series cars are gone too, even early A6s and A8s are getting rare. Doesn't bode well, but I do think they became less troublesome in the middle of the oughts.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I've always thought Audi's reflect their connection to VW - fun to drive, but not a car for reliability and longevity.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Didn't buy an extended warranty for my 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance or the 2002 Cadillac Seville STS before it, the 1994 Cadillac DeVille before it, or my 1989 Cadillac Brougham. Didn't buy an extended warranty for my wife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse either. There was no need for an extended warranty for any of them.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Like being married to a Vegas showgirl.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Can't say my 2005 Grand Marquis has been trouble-free! I replaced both the wiper motor and the HVAC control unit this week! I'm out $600 right before wifey's birthday!

    "Happy Birthday, honey! Look what I got you!" (Ducks when Chia Pet is thrown at head)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Come on Lemko, be a man. You can hold a rag in left hand to wipe the window, and who needs heat or AC;)

    Yeah, those HVAC controls can be expensive. Had to replace them in my Expedition and Suburban.

    With the Expedition, the blower was stuck on high, with the burb the heat was stuck on. Fine in the winter, but not survivable in the summer.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Years back I had an 85 Colony Park. Pretty good car, but it had one continual problem - wiper motor! Sad Ford still wasn't able to get it right 20 year later. Wonder if it was the same crappy motor unit?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Was this the wiper problem that causes the wipers to park in the up position? I think my grandmother had a Taurus that did that.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Thaty was just one of the issues and the least of it. Wiper stops ceased working so wipers went off and on the windshield. Then they stopped working altogether.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,374
    edited April 2012
    Up until last week my 132,000 mile 2004 X3 had only needed an SRS sensor(recall/warranty), one set of pads/rotors, and one set of serpentine belts. However, last week I had to replace the oil filter housing gasket. It's a fiddly job so I another let the dealer do the work. Not really complaining, just reporting. I also threw on a set of rear pads; it looks like I'll get at least 140,000 miles out of this pair of rear rotors. As for the engine's overall condition, here's the report from the latest used oil analysis:

    Universal averages for BMW's M54 I-6 are based on about 6,400 miles on the oil. You ran this oil 8,352 miles, and wear read at or below average across the board. That's the best indication we know of that an engine is in good mechanical shape internally.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Still NAFTA but cheaper labor. Plus drug dealers can buy 'em. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,494
    Good enough for some dumpy big 2.5 SUVs, might as well add some useless German SUVs to the mix.

    And I am sure it has to do with "regulations" and not bribes and labor costs, too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I bet the recent spate of tornados in Chattanooga scared them off.
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