{my work security team} has blocked this site because it has been determined to be a security threat to your computer or the corporate network due to presence of malicious code.
Blocking sites which have been associated with malware/spyware helps protect the confidentiality of your personal information...
So my firewall blocks that entire site, flagging it for malware. :sick:
If they used a weighted average for the Camry then the domestic content would be *MUCH* HIGHER.
Just like the executive "leadership" of the companies involved with said unions. It seems anyone with "director" or above in their questionably obtained title is about as legit as a factory worker taking pot breaks.
"1. The Toyota plant built in Georgetown, Kentucky in 1987 was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company. 2. Toyota was given 1,500 acres of free land. 3. A "special trade zone" was established so Toyota could import parts duty-free from Japan. 4. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan. 5. Total federal, state, and local tax incentives (tax giveaways) reached $100 million, courtesy of your tax dollars and mine."
While it would be nice if the plant was built with American steel, I still see it as a winner for Kentucky...with absolutely no documentation whatsoever, I would bet:
1. the 1500 acres of land was in the middle of the boonies, generating tax revenue of nominal value to the county...and that building an interstate exit for them (I assume there is one) was nominal cost because it was in the middle of nowhere, along with extending a railroad spur
2. I assume the tax giveaways were all at the state level, so my questions are: a. how many jobs were created for the locals b. how much weekly/annual payroll was created, and how much was it compared to the payroll before the plant opened c. how many businesses opened to serve those workers...pizza joints, bars, cleaners, restaurants, shoe stores, etc. d. how many locals now earn a living thanks to the ripple effect of the plant e. was it worth the 100 million, and I would guess yes f. at some time in the future, when the tax break expire, the plant will pay state and local taxes, and the land will be worth far more than the wilderness land it was when the plant broke ground...
>If they used a weighted average for the Camry then the domestic content would be *MUCH* HIGHER.
Did you get to check the data on the site for proof that the 5 items are not true? My internet checker doesn't complain about the site.
Have you checked on the 5 facts and found any of them invalid?
1. The Toyota plant built in Georgetown, Kentucky in 1987 was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company. 2. Toyota was given 1,500 acres of free land. 3. A "special trade zone" was established so Toyota could import parts duty-free from Japan. 4. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan. 5. Total federal, state, and local tax incentives (tax giveaways) reached $100 million, courtesy of your tax dollars and mine.
While the plant adds jobs, it takes jobs away from other car brands which might be the ones building US cars here.
And just think about how many jobs would have been involved in the steel and contracting for the building and the bank industry if those were US companies?
the Toyota plant is a half full or half empty situation...I see it as helping rural Kentucky with jobs, and the ripple effect of other jobs, and bringing money to an area that might not have it otherwise...others see it as all the things they see as "missing" (i.e. made iwth japanese steel instead of US steel), but there are still benefits that I see that some don't see or don't want to see...
"While the plant adds jobs, it takes jobs away from other car brands which might be the ones building US cars here."...am I missing something, or don't we call that "competition"...remember, it is the US brands that build in Mexico and Brazil so they can avoid the US unions (UAW, anyone?) and stupid union work rules...don't blame Toyota, blame those American workers who cause plants to be built elsewhere because they will strike at the drop of a hat because someone took a 2 minute coffee break away...be grateful that the Japanese company came here to make cars...they, more than the Big 3, prove that American workers can make great cars, just take away the union mentality and militancy, and let the workers know they can be fired in a day for lousy work, instead of 2 years worth of union grievances before they are fired, or promoted to union liason...
While it would be nice if the plant was built with American steel, I still see it as a winner for Kentucky...with absolutely no documentation whatsoever, I would bet...
I think imidaz would be arguing that it's better to have an American company with leaders like Lutz and Wagoner who make a decade of failing decisions, than a company building a plant with non-US steel that creates a whole new industry and tax base in a previously barely production part of the country.... :confuse:
>am I missing something, or don't we call that "competition"...
Bob: Exactly. Competition is where a company doesn'thave special treatment in their homeland to help them and they use that to lower their cost of product to "compete" by undercutting the US product. E.g., Korea has subsidized their auto companies and protected them. Japan also aids their companies. Now if their companies "stood alone" without government subsidy then they could have been competing. Otherwise, it's an uneven playing field. And let's not forget the currency manipulations which have also made product less expensive.
Perhaps it's before your time, but I recall how the Japanese "dumped" product here, including steel IIRC, to keep the jobs and factories going in the homeland. Every few months there would be a news report or how a certain industry was dumping product here at below the cost of production in the homeland.
>UAW
Now that's a whole other ballgame. First, he government smoothed bankruptcy by BO shouldn't have included giving the UAW part control and ownership ahead of other bond holders of GM. That has to go down as BO's first strike against our country. UAW should have been having prove they had value to offer to the New GM and C to unionize the plant bees. However, second, our country is filled with special treatment receiving groups. AMA. ABA. SEIU. But our legislatures are filled with lawyers setting up special treatments for friends and selves. Third, the unions weren't alone in setting up GM for losses. The management helped. Take those things away, the plants in foreign countries could have been built here. Especially if the treatment by local communities, states, and feds were as generous as they have been to new companies from outside the US.
I agree. The 100 million was small even in adjusted dollars for those days.
I wasn't clear enough about the other pieces of facts: Japanese steel and all the other parts.
>My flags don't go up about accessing the site. No problems afterwards scanning with Maleware Antimalewarebytes and SpybotSD, along with my antivirus. I wonder if it's one of the advertiser's loads. >meanwhile to you it's gospel
CNW were the freaks who said the Prius used less energy than a Hummer, later corrected, but you misquoted them after the correction was made. CNW President Art Spinella flunked English 3 times in high school.
You made no retraction.
In the Toyota on the Mend thread you believe Sikes' story, the guy who turned out to be running a porn web site and who was wanted in two states for fraud.
Now your source is a site blocked by firewalls for malicious code and Malware/Adware.
You need better sources, or at least a healthy dose of skepticism.
This site hosts tours of all shapes and sizes, and the site isn't run by any auto maker, so as a source they seem neutral (most featured tours are American companies):
* Toyota’s largest vehicle manufacturing plant outside of Japan * employs about 7,000 team members * team members can stop the line at any time
Seems like a lot of happy, empowered Americans work there.
While searching I also found that it's a zero landfill facility and all of their waste is composted, plus they donate 1000+ tons of produce per year grown on the that donated land to God's Pantry.
Gee, I wonder why that malicious web site omits all those facts? LOL
These deals make sense for local governments, an excerpt:
Ford is eligible for up to $240 million in state and local tax incentives during the next 10 years if it meets investment and job-creation goals at both the Louisville Assembly plant and its Kentucky Truck plant, also in Louisville.
They structure these in a way that's win-win for the local economy and the automaker. Otherwise why make such deals in the first place?
I agree those deals can be win-win, but unfortunately sometimes the governments aren't the best at math and give away so much that it will be hard to even break even down the road, and of course politics tends to screw up economic as well!
Local governments get screwed when they offer short-term deals and then the company that got help bail and move elsewhere.
A good example is Wal Mart. They often get incentives from a neighboring county or state, and will move their store a few blocks down the street to get more incentives. They abandon the old property, and that district misses out on collecting taxes.
If you want a car example, look to Hyundai. Canada gave them big incentives to build a plant there, but when every one figured out just how bad the Excel was, sales tanked, and Hyundai bailed, and left Canada to foot the bill. Canada gambled and lost big.
Back to Georgetown, they offered incentives over a 10 year period, but Toyota is still building more and more cars there 15 years after that incentive expired.
Kentucky doubled-down and hit the jack pot. It was a brilliant deal, period.
"A good example is Wal Mart. They often get incentives from a neighboring county or state, and will move their store a few blocks down the street to get more incentives. They abandon the old property, and that district misses out on collecting taxes."
Interesting that you should say that, because my observation of walmart is just the opposite, but I am referring to how they operate in GA, and I have seen MS, because we visit relatives there...
Years ago, Walmart had, I think, 3 store sizes, small, medium and large, and then they developed the Super Walmart which added a grocery store to the complex...now, they almost always build Super stores only, back not so long ago, they had a lot of small and medium stores that just became so successful that Walmart needed a bigger store...once they needed the larger store, they always built the Superstore, needing 3-4 times the land they did for the smaller store...here in GA, I have seen them build the new store in the same little town many times, and the jobs and tax revenue stay where they are...but if some cities/counties cannot supply them with the increased land plus better roadways and better highway exits, then they may have to move to a new county that CAN supply their needs...
Here where I live they had a small Walmart over 20 years, back when the town was quite small and rural...it has since expanded and population has doubled in the last 20 years...Walmart closed the little store (it still sits empty) but built the Superstore about 3/4 mile away, just off the interstate...they are still widening the 2 lane road to 5-6 lanes just for walmart traffic, and they added a lane to enlarge the interstate exit for the store, and extended a lane over half a mile just to accomodate the store...plus synchronized traffic lights where 4-way stop signs used to be, and on and on...and the store is packed...I must assume that the county is taking in sales tax out the wazoo, and we now have a new superstore with much more merchandise and now food/groceries, and only 3/4 mile from the old one...seem like good capitalism to me...
Interesting that you should say that, because my observation of walmart is just the opposite, but I am referring to how they operate in GA, and I have seen MS, because we visit relatives there...
I'm sure it does happen, but perhaps not as often as we might think. There have been news stories and exposes galore about how WalMart will get all these incentives, and then uproot and move nearby. So, because of it making the news and internet, it's probably more fresh in our minds.
Personally, the only example I can think of, locally, with a WalMart did that was when the one on Route 3 in Glen Burnie MD closed up and a new one opened about a mile away, in Severn MD. I don't know the details of that relocation, and have never been in the new location. The old building is still sitting there, vacant, and probably considered an eyesore by the locals.
But don't we come back to the same arguments???...the new store is probably larger, so they hire more people...and they don't build the new store a year after the old one, they usually wait a number of years simply because they have to outgrow the old one...in those years, they contribute more sales tax to the area than any of the Mom & Pop stores they replaced, and they bring more jobs to the area than any of the smaller stores...so, I am sure that the county has gained a lot, even tho you argue that Walmart eventually moves out to another town or county...
You seem to object to...CHANGE...just because WM puts in one location, you seem to demand that they stay there forever, when they may move on due to growth...remember WM's original plan when they were starting out was to move into a desolate area of any small town, where the land was cheap...they almost always brought more business to the small town from the neighboring small towns, which meant that the restaurants and other businesses near the WM also gained business, which brought even more sales tax and other revenues (jobs like servers in restaurants) to the town...from a business standpoint, having WM come to your area was a boon to the town, with the exception of those Mom & Pop stores who were raping the town all those years charging them out the wazoo for things Walmart sold at 1/3 the price...and still made money...
I am surprised they'd just abandon the old store rather than expand it - especially in areas like your neck of the woods where there seems to be one every third highway exit, and most zoning/building permits seem to be just a matter of paying the fee.
My mom lives in a small town adjacent to a few others with a total population of maybe 30K. There's been a WM there for nearly 20 years now. The WM spelled doom for the terrible shopping mall on the other side of town, but the mom and pop stuff seems to be surviving, if not doing fine, as the locals will still prefer some service and knowledge when buying many things.
Expanding the old store makes no sense, if you saw the size of the new one, which includes a grocery store bigger than the entire old store...plus, small Walmarts are often located in small shopping malls with just a few extra stores...they now need a parking lot 5X the size of the old one...it just doesn't make sense to expand the old building when they can build a new modern store...the old one is available to rent, of course...
The old Walmart building near us has been several stores since Walmart moved out and built a supercenter. Currently it's a Rural King, basically a giant Tractor Supply store. Neat place they sell everything from pop corn to live chickens. Essentially a farmers version of Walmart;) This is central Illinois!
Also I think Walmart looks at how traffic and development has changed. Our SuperCenter moved about a mile away to where all of the new retail development is. Access and traffic patterns are much better. Plus, depending on how old the original Walmart is, parking can be an issue. A Supercenter needs a much larger parking lot.
Maybe it's local bias - land is so expensive here that I know more than one WM that has been expanded, and I know the one in my mom's town is on the list too - as no other location could be found that wasn't way too far from populated areas. But I know in suburban ATL land costs as much as day old bread and the permitting process is basically rubber stamp, so it works.
My high cost of living town is getting a WM within the year, something I still find shocking - but it will be a "local market" store and not a normal version.
"Also I think Walmart looks at how traffic and development has changed. Our SuperCenter moved about a mile away to where all of the new retail development is. Access and traffic patterns are much better. Plus, depending on how old the original Walmart is, parking can be an issue. A Supercenter needs a much larger parking lot."
That is my entire point...when Walmart set up originally in this small town, it was their small store but a big one in town, and it was on the edge of the shopping district where land was cheaper...but the interstate was only a mile away or so, if that, and land opened up for sale, so they built a new Superstore and the parking is probably 5X or more...and they need it...so I think the town benefitted greatly from the new store, plus the extra jobs they bring...
The negative people only look at the empty store and call it an eyesore...hogwash...any business that expands may leave their old building empty, but the new building is an improvement...in this case, a full service Verizon moved in, Wells Fargo built a new bank (and, yes, abandoned the old one...what a coincidence), and a new McDonald's is building right now on an outparcel of WalMart...everything is better, newer, and bringing more jobs...thank heaven they are non-union jobs...oh, and I forgot...Home Depot built a new store just over the hill, bringing MORE new jobs with it...and all they can see is a couple of abandoned buildings, as tho no one ever left a building before...how shortsighted they can be...
Home Depot built a new store just over the hill, bringing MORE new jobs with it...and all they can see is a couple of abandoned buildings, as tho no one ever left a building before...how shortsighted they can be...
Man, that is one of the dopiest arguments I've seen on Edmunds...and there are a lot.
"As if no one left a building before".....who leaves buildings closed up, the size of a WalMart??! Sheesh.
I can only conclude that you work, or did work, for a large national retailer. How about taking care of the mess that you leave behind, if you are a large company that leaves?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I understand where you are coming form on this and pretty much agree with you but you'll find with march (Bob) that the answer will always be about dollars. If it's more profitable for Wal Mart to abandon a building after it's built another one that works for him.
I don't know that there really is a way around such a thing. Abandoned buildings seem to be a regular, if very unfortunate, fact of life.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I can only conclude that you work, or did work, for a large national retailer. How about taking care of the mess that you leave behind, if you are a large company that leaves?
Large retailers often lease and don't own the site.
I believe WM generally owns their stores and doesn't want to sell them to potential competitors. As for this gov versus private sector stuff, I think most business is ethical and most gov employees are competent. But there can be exceptions to either. That's why this Dem stuff about big gov insertion and control versus this Rep stuff about contract it all out are both nuts. There needs to be balance, but there doesn't appear to be any moderation in DC. As Reagan so aptly said "trust but verify".
You seem to object to...CHANGE...just because WM puts in one location, you seem to demand that they stay there forever, when they may move on due to growth
Hey, I'm not objecting to change. If anything, my post pointed out just the opposite, that for the most part, these WalMart stores DON'T move as often as we might think. After all, I could only think of one example.
And it could very well be that it was because they outgrew the old location. Just looking on the aerial views, I can't tell if the new one's bigger or not. It looks bigger, but the new building also has a Kohl's and a Lazy Boy store.
Personally, I try to stay out of WalMart as much as possible. Parking and traffic is usually a hassle, and the stores are usually over-crowded and understaffed. A few years ago, a new WalMart went in at Arundel Mills Mall in Maryland, next door to a Costco, and it seemed pretty nice. At first. But then it's like the masses finally discovered it, and WalMart realized they didn't need to keep it as well-staffed, so it became just as annoying (to me at least) as the others.
"I can only conclude that you work, or did work, for a large national retailer. How about taking care of the mess that you leave behind, if you are a large company that leaves?"
I never worked for anyone but my father and an auto parts store in Marietta, GA in the 70s...other than that, self employed...sorry to annoy you...
One, I do not know if WM owned the store or leased it, but why do you feel you have the right to stop WM from expanding and building a new store???...that IS exactly what you are doing...leaving an empty building is no big deal, another non-competing retailer can move in like a Kohls, Belk, Dollar Store, etc...why should WM make sure that the building is occupied, esp if they may not even own the bldg or the land??? (I don't know if they do in this instance)...
We still have the benefit of the new, larger WM, plus all the associated stores that go with it, all brand new construction...
It is part of the evolution of the town...the older area was, well, old...other stores had vacated and only WM was left, and they obviously needed more space...and now they have it...
It always comes down to dollars, and why shouldn't it...if WM sees sales climbing but the parking lot is full, they need more space, plus, they added on a competetive grocery store...why shouldn't they abandon the old bldg in a heartbeat???
It's only been closed for 50 years. An empty Walmart doesn't look so bad;)
As previously mentioned, abandoned Walmarts aren't all that common. The few around here have been converted to other stores.
What's more of a problem is retail stores that have closed due to going out of business. With Linen's & Things, Circuit City, and Borders all closing within a year or so of one another, it's left a lot of empty retail space open in many shopping areas.
Our Circuit City space is still empty, but the old Linen's and Things, and Borders space have recently had retail stores move in.
Here anyway, the new Walmart Supercenter has moved about a mile to where all the main retail development is with a Meijer Supercenter across the street and a Target a 1/2 mile down the road.
There probably is far more empy Kmarts and soon to be empty Sears locations than Walmarts.
We still have the benefit of the new, larger WM, plus all the associated stores that go with it, all brand new construction...
Ah yes, just what we need is another gigantic outlet/strip mall for cheap, Chinese made products that creates dozens of "do you want fries with that" jobs.
When we go to Wal-Mart, maybe every 3 weeks, we buy bathroom items (shampoo, soap, Kleenex, etc.), kitchen items (paper towels, dishwash soap, Fantastic, etc), some laundry items (Tide) and a few food items. Sometimes Scotts Fertilizer, Scotch tape, Mcguires car wash soap, etc.
I don't believe that ANY of the items I mentioned are from China, and even if a few of them are, they are the definitely the same as I would buy at other stores, just a bit less expensive. Most of my friends do the same. So when people make the statement or assumption that the only things that people buy at Wal-Mart are cheap, Chinese-made, I completely disagree.
To balance it out, we do go to Target and Kroger more than WalMart, but to state that going to WM means you are buying Chinese-made products is not correct in my family's case and just about everyone I know has the same WM buying habits as my family.
"Ah yes, just what we need is another gigantic outlet/strip mall for cheap, Chinese made products that creates dozens of "do you want fries with that" jobs."
I simply do not agree...near the new Super walmart of which I speak, the other stores that moved in around it are, Home Depot, Wells Fargo Bank (they had a tiny location earlier and absolutely needed more space), a major Verizon Wireless store (meaning they also offer tech support and service), a new Mexican restaurant, a new BBQ restaurant, a new Kauffman Tire Store (their first in the area) and a new Wendys...they are building a new McDonald's right as we speak...good businesses, and a few serve fries...what's your problem with that???
I think it just depends on where you live. Just for kicks, I went to the Walmart site and checked their store locator. Within 10 miles of my house, there are three, with the closest being about 6 miles away. Stretch it out to 15 miles, there are two more. And take it out to 20 miles, there are another 4
So, with 9 of them within 20 miles of me, I'd say we're pretty well saturated. But, in other regions, residents may disagree. I just plugged in my Mom's zipcode in southern MD, and the nearest one is about 12 miles away, and there are only four within 20 miles.
Those pictures and videos are extremely sad and symbolic of the decay of America's industrial might. Come to Philly, and you'll see plenty of empty industrial buildings similar to the old Packard complex.
We have two Wal~Marts in NE Philly and both are on sites that once were homes to places that provided excellent blue-collar jobs. At Adams Avenue and Roosevelt Blvd. was the massive Sears complex that was once the largest warehouse under one roof and employed around 23,000 people. On Roosevelt Blvd.
Sears Warehouse - Closed 1992. Demolished 1994.
Just above Grant Avenue was home to Whitman's Chocolates before the company was bought out by Russell Stover and the plant closed and demolished.
Funny how a whole lot of good jobs that provided a living wage were replaced by a handful of "McJobs."
Both Wal~Marts are hellish places where only the most reckless and self-destructive individual would venture to go. The one on Adams is a violent zoo that is constantly under the attention of the police and the other one is a filthy, disgusting place that reminds one of a third-world country. I only go to this Wal~Mart as a last-ditch effort and feel like I need a shower after I've been there. One Wal~Mart in the suburbs which once was a pretty decent place to shop has now degraded into "Jerry Springer's green room."
Comparing prices on a couple of Auto products like cleaning/polishing stuff for metals, synthetic motor oil, Wal-Mart is SIGNIFICANTLY lower priced than Autozone, Kragens, or any other smaller auto parts shop (pep-boys, you name it). The prices aren't even close on a percentage basis. I'm talking product after product being about 25% cheaper at Wal-Mart (non-Rollback or sale prices too). And these are the exact same products. So if it's made in China at Wal-Mart, it's still made in China anywhere else you buy it.
Just everyday savings for the everyday man.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
What Wal~Mart definitely lacks compared to AutoZone, Pep Boys. R&S Strauss, etc. per automotive cleaning chemicals, synthetic motor oil, etc. is selection. Wal~Mart has a paltry selection compared to those other outlets.
What Wal~Mart definitely lacks compared to AutoZone, Pep Boys. R&S Strauss, etc. per automotive cleaning chemicals, synthetic motor oil, etc. is selection. Wal~Mart has a paltry selection compared to those other outlets.
True, they don't have the selection of a specialized store, but they still carry enough variety that I can get quite a bit of supplies for my boat and RV. Only time I go to an RV or Boat dealer is for service related parts.
Comments
{my work security team} has blocked this site because it has been determined to be a security threat to your computer or the corporate network due to presence of malicious code.
Blocking sites which have been associated with malware/spyware helps protect the confidentiality of your personal information...
So my firewall blocks that entire site, flagging it for malware. :sick:
If they used a weighted average for the Camry then the domestic content would be *MUCH* HIGHER.
So either way they're wrong.
2. Toyota was given 1,500 acres of free land.
3. A "special trade zone" was established so Toyota could import parts duty-free from Japan.
4. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan.
5. Total federal, state, and local tax incentives (tax giveaways) reached $100 million, courtesy of your tax dollars and mine."
While it would be nice if the plant was built with American steel, I still see it as a winner for Kentucky...with absolutely no documentation whatsoever, I would bet:
1. the 1500 acres of land was in the middle of the boonies, generating tax revenue of nominal value to the county...and that building an interstate exit for them (I assume there is one) was nominal cost because it was in the middle of nowhere, along with extending a railroad spur
2. I assume the tax giveaways were all at the state level, so my questions are:
a. how many jobs were created for the locals
b. how much weekly/annual payroll was created, and how much was it compared to the payroll before the plant opened
c. how many businesses opened to serve those workers...pizza joints, bars, cleaners, restaurants, shoe stores, etc.
d. how many locals now earn a living thanks to the ripple effect of the plant
e. was it worth the 100 million, and I would guess yes
f. at some time in the future, when the tax break expire, the plant will pay state and local taxes, and the land will be worth far more than the wilderness land it was when the plant broke ground...
I think it's a safe bet to say that each car produced generated $10.00 (yes, ten dollars) in revenue for the state of KY.
That investment probably paid itself off 100 times already. Brilliant deal for the state, absolutely genius.
Incentives or not, it's better than them going south of the border.
But then again, I'm not in the ignorant mindset of Toyota should just pack up and leave instead... :lemon:
Did you get to check the data on the site for proof that the 5 items are not true? My internet checker doesn't complain about the site.
Have you checked on the 5 facts and found any of them invalid?
1. The Toyota plant built in Georgetown, Kentucky in 1987 was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company.
2. Toyota was given 1,500 acres of free land.
3. A "special trade zone" was established so Toyota could import parts duty-free from Japan.
4. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan.
5. Total federal, state, and local tax incentives (tax giveaways) reached $100 million, courtesy of your tax dollars and mine.
While the plant adds jobs, it takes jobs away from other car brands which might be the ones building US cars here.
And just think about how many jobs would have been involved in the steel and contracting for the building and the bank industry if those were US companies?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"While the plant adds jobs, it takes jobs away from other car brands which might be the ones building US cars here."...am I missing something, or don't we call that "competition"...remember, it is the US brands that build in Mexico and Brazil so they can avoid the US unions (UAW, anyone?) and stupid union work rules...don't blame Toyota, blame those American workers who cause plants to be built elsewhere because they will strike at the drop of a hat because someone took a 2 minute coffee break away...be grateful that the Japanese company came here to make cars...they, more than the Big 3, prove that American workers can make great cars, just take away the union mentality and militancy, and let the workers know they can be fired in a day for lousy work, instead of 2 years worth of union grievances before they are fired, or promoted to union liason...
While it would be nice if the plant was built with American steel, I still see it as a winner for Kentucky...with absolutely no documentation whatsoever, I would bet...
I think imidaz would be arguing that it's better to have an American company with leaders like Lutz and Wagoner who make a decade of failing decisions, than a company building a plant with non-US steel that creates a whole new industry and tax base in a previously barely production part of the country.... :confuse:
Yes, that's right.
>am I missing something, or don't we call that "competition"...
Bob: Exactly. Competition is where a company doesn'thave special treatment in their homeland to help them and they use that to lower their cost of product to "compete" by undercutting the US product. E.g., Korea has subsidized their auto companies and protected them. Japan also aids their companies. Now if their companies "stood alone" without government subsidy then they could have been competing. Otherwise, it's an uneven playing field. And let's not forget the currency manipulations which have also made product less expensive.
Perhaps it's before your time, but I recall how the Japanese "dumped" product here, including steel IIRC, to keep the jobs and factories going in the homeland. Every few months there would be a news report or how a certain industry was dumping product here at below the cost of production in the homeland.
>UAW
Now that's a whole other ballgame. First, he government smoothed bankruptcy by BO shouldn't have included giving the UAW part control and ownership ahead of other bond holders of GM. That has to go down as BO's first strike against our country. UAW should have been having prove they had value to offer to the New GM and C to unionize the plant bees. However, second, our country is filled with special treatment receiving groups. AMA. ABA. SEIU. But our legislatures are filled with lawyers setting up special treatments for friends and selves. Third, the unions weren't alone in setting up GM for losses. The management helped. Take those things away, the plants in foreign countries could have been built here. Especially if the treatment by local communities, states, and feds were as generous as they have been to new companies from outside the US.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As mentioned earlier the site isn't trusted and was flagged as harmful, so why would I bother, even if it wasn't blocked?
The Big 3 lobbied hard to force the Asians to build cars here. KY was smart and offered relatively *TINY* incentives for them to locate it there.
It paid off handsomely for the local economy, probably tenfold.
I'll take that as a "data is valid." :surprise:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They mention 100 million in that article as if that amount would permanently damaged the local economy.
It's a drop in the bucket, face it.
The land was put to good use, even for secondary agricultural purposes.
Toyota did what they were asked (forced?) to do.
You're quoting from a malicious site as if it were gospel. LOL
I agree. The 100 million was small even in adjusted dollars for those days.
I wasn't clear enough about the other pieces of facts: Japanese steel and all the other parts.
>My flags don't go up about accessing the site. No problems afterwards scanning with Maleware Antimalewarebytes and SpybotSD, along with my antivirus. I wonder if it's one of the advertiser's loads.
>meanwhile to you it's gospel
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f16697b/21750#MSG21750
CNW were the freaks who said the Prius used less energy than a Hummer, later corrected, but you misquoted them after the correction was made. CNW President Art Spinella flunked English 3 times in high school.
You made no retraction.
In the Toyota on the Mend thread you believe Sikes' story, the guy who turned out to be running a porn web site and who was wanted in two states for fraud.
Now your source is a site blocked by firewalls for malicious code and Malware/Adware.
You need better sources, or at least a healthy dose of skepticism.
Let's find a reliable, unbiased source for the information about how the Georgetown plant was built, then we can talk.
I'll be happy to read it when you post it!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.factorytour.com/tours/toyota.cfm
Extracting some data:
* Toyota’s largest vehicle manufacturing plant outside of Japan
* employs about 7,000 team members
* team members can stop the line at any time
Seems like a lot of happy, empowered Americans work there.
While searching I also found that it's a zero landfill facility and all of their waste is composted, plus they donate 1000+ tons of produce per year grown on the that donated land to God's Pantry.
Gee, I wonder why that malicious web site omits all those facts? LOL
That way you can sleep peacefully, knowing our bail out money went to subsidize jobs outside US borders that will benefit Italy in the long term.
Sure makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Ford is eligible for up to $240 million in state and local tax incentives during the next 10 years if it meets investment and job-creation goals at both the Louisville Assembly plant and its Kentucky Truck plant, also in Louisville.
They structure these in a way that's win-win for the local economy and the automaker. Otherwise why make such deals in the first place?
A good example is Wal Mart. They often get incentives from a neighboring county or state, and will move their store a few blocks down the street to get more incentives. They abandon the old property, and that district misses out on collecting taxes.
If you want a car example, look to Hyundai. Canada gave them big incentives to build a plant there, but when every one figured out just how bad the Excel was, sales tanked, and Hyundai bailed, and left Canada to foot the bill. Canada gambled and lost big.
Back to Georgetown, they offered incentives over a 10 year period, but Toyota is still building more and more cars there 15 years after that incentive expired.
Kentucky doubled-down and hit the jack pot. It was a brilliant deal, period.
Interesting that you should say that, because my observation of walmart is just the opposite, but I am referring to how they operate in GA, and I have seen MS, because we visit relatives there...
Years ago, Walmart had, I think, 3 store sizes, small, medium and large, and then they developed the Super Walmart which added a grocery store to the complex...now, they almost always build Super stores only, back not so long ago, they had a lot of small and medium stores that just became so successful that Walmart needed a bigger store...once they needed the larger store, they always built the Superstore, needing 3-4 times the land they did for the smaller store...here in GA, I have seen them build the new store in the same little town many times, and the jobs and tax revenue stay where they are...but if some cities/counties cannot supply them with the increased land plus better roadways and better highway exits, then they may have to move to a new county that CAN supply their needs...
Here where I live they had a small Walmart over 20 years, back when the town was quite small and rural...it has since expanded and population has doubled in the last 20 years...Walmart closed the little store (it still sits empty) but built the Superstore about 3/4 mile away, just off the interstate...they are still widening the 2 lane road to 5-6 lanes just for walmart traffic, and they added a lane to enlarge the interstate exit for the store, and extended a lane over half a mile just to accomodate the store...plus synchronized traffic lights where 4-way stop signs used to be, and on and on...and the store is packed...I must assume that the county is taking in sales tax out the wazoo, and we now have a new superstore with much more merchandise and now food/groceries, and only 3/4 mile from the old one...seem like good capitalism to me...
I'm sure it does happen, but perhaps not as often as we might think. There have been news stories and exposes galore about how WalMart will get all these incentives, and then uproot and move nearby. So, because of it making the news and internet, it's probably more fresh in our minds.
Personally, the only example I can think of, locally, with a WalMart did that was when the one on Route 3 in Glen Burnie MD closed up and a new one opened about a mile away, in Severn MD. I don't know the details of that relocation, and have never been in the new location. The old building is still sitting there, vacant, and probably considered an eyesore by the locals.
You seem to object to...CHANGE...just because WM puts in one location, you seem to demand that they stay there forever, when they may move on due to growth...remember WM's original plan when they were starting out was to move into a desolate area of any small town, where the land was cheap...they almost always brought more business to the small town from the neighboring small towns, which meant that the restaurants and other businesses near the WM also gained business, which brought even more sales tax and other revenues (jobs like servers in restaurants) to the town...from a business standpoint, having WM come to your area was a boon to the town, with the exception of those Mom & Pop stores who were raping the town all those years charging them out the wazoo for things Walmart sold at 1/3 the price...and still made money...
My mom lives in a small town adjacent to a few others with a total population of maybe 30K. There's been a WM there for nearly 20 years now. The WM spelled doom for the terrible shopping mall on the other side of town, but the mom and pop stuff seems to be surviving, if not doing fine, as the locals will still prefer some service and knowledge when buying many things.
Also I think Walmart looks at how traffic and development has changed. Our SuperCenter moved about a mile away to where all of the new retail development is. Access and traffic patterns are much better. Plus, depending on how old the original Walmart is, parking can be an issue. A Supercenter needs a much larger parking lot.
My high cost of living town is getting a WM within the year, something I still find shocking - but it will be a "local market" store and not a normal version.
That is my entire point...when Walmart set up originally in this small town, it was their small store but a big one in town, and it was on the edge of the shopping district where land was cheaper...but the interstate was only a mile away or so, if that, and land opened up for sale, so they built a new Superstore and the parking is probably 5X or more...and they need it...so I think the town benefitted greatly from the new store, plus the extra jobs they bring...
The negative people only look at the empty store and call it an eyesore...hogwash...any business that expands may leave their old building empty, but the new building is an improvement...in this case, a full service Verizon moved in, Wells Fargo built a new bank (and, yes, abandoned the old one...what a coincidence), and a new McDonald's is building right now on an outparcel of WalMart...everything is better, newer, and bringing more jobs...thank heaven they are non-union jobs...oh, and I forgot...Home Depot built a new store just over the hill, bringing MORE new jobs with it...and all they can see is a couple of abandoned buildings, as tho no one ever left a building before...how shortsighted they can be...
Man, that is one of the dopiest arguments I've seen on Edmunds...and there are a lot.
"As if no one left a building before".....who leaves buildings closed up, the size of a WalMart??! Sheesh.
I can only conclude that you work, or did work, for a large national retailer. How about taking care of the mess that you leave behind, if you are a large company that leaves?
I don't know that there really is a way around such a thing. Abandoned buildings seem to be a regular, if very unfortunate, fact of life.
Large retailers often lease and don't own the site.
Hey, I'm not objecting to change. If anything, my post pointed out just the opposite, that for the most part, these WalMart stores DON'T move as often as we might think. After all, I could only think of one example.
And it could very well be that it was because they outgrew the old location. Just looking on the aerial views, I can't tell if the new one's bigger or not. It looks bigger, but the new building also has a Kohl's and a Lazy Boy store.
Personally, I try to stay out of WalMart as much as possible. Parking and traffic is usually a hassle, and the stores are usually over-crowded and understaffed. A few years ago, a new WalMart went in at Arundel Mills Mall in Maryland, next door to a Costco, and it seemed pretty nice. At first. But then it's like the masses finally discovered it, and WalMart realized they didn't need to keep it as well-staffed, so it became just as annoying (to me at least) as the others.
I never worked for anyone but my father and an auto parts store in Marietta, GA in the 70s...other than that, self employed...sorry to annoy you...
One, I do not know if WM owned the store or leased it, but why do you feel you have the right to stop WM from expanding and building a new store???...that IS exactly what you are doing...leaving an empty building is no big deal, another non-competing retailer can move in like a Kohls, Belk, Dollar Store, etc...why should WM make sure that the building is occupied, esp if they may not even own the bldg or the land??? (I don't know if they do in this instance)...
We still have the benefit of the new, larger WM, plus all the associated stores that go with it, all brand new construction...
It is part of the evolution of the town...the older area was, well, old...other stores had vacated and only WM was left, and they obviously needed more space...and now they have it...
It always comes down to dollars, and why shouldn't it...if WM sees sales climbing but the parking lot is full, they need more space, plus, they added on a competetive grocery store...why shouldn't they abandon the old bldg in a heartbeat???
Sound business, to me...
What about motor city.
Packard Plant
It's only been closed for 50 years. An empty Walmart doesn't look so bad;)
As previously mentioned, abandoned Walmarts aren't all that common. The few around here have been converted to other stores.
What's more of a problem is retail stores that have closed due to going out of business. With Linen's & Things, Circuit City, and Borders all closing within a year or so of one another, it's left a lot of empty retail space open in many shopping areas.
Our Circuit City space is still empty, but the old Linen's and Things, and Borders space have recently had retail stores move in.
Here anyway, the new Walmart Supercenter has moved about a mile to where all the main retail development is with a Meijer Supercenter across the street and a Target a 1/2 mile down the road.
There probably is far more empy Kmarts and soon to be empty Sears locations than Walmarts.
Ah yes, just what we need is another gigantic outlet/strip mall for cheap, Chinese made products that creates dozens of "do you want fries with that" jobs.
I don't believe that ANY of the items I mentioned are from China, and even if a few of them are, they are the definitely the same as I would buy at other stores, just a bit less expensive. Most of my friends do the same. So when people make the statement or assumption that the only things that people buy at Wal-Mart are cheap, Chinese-made, I completely disagree.
To balance it out, we do go to Target and Kroger more than WalMart, but to state that going to WM means you are buying Chinese-made products is not correct in my family's case and just about everyone I know has the same WM buying habits as my family.
I simply do not agree...near the new Super walmart of which I speak, the other stores that moved in around it are, Home Depot, Wells Fargo Bank (they had a tiny location earlier and absolutely needed more space), a major Verizon Wireless store (meaning they also offer tech support and service), a new Mexican restaurant, a new BBQ restaurant, a new Kauffman Tire Store (their first in the area) and a new Wendys...they are building a new McDonald's right as we speak...good businesses, and a few serve fries...what's your problem with that???
So, with 9 of them within 20 miles of me, I'd say we're pretty well saturated. But, in other regions, residents may disagree. I just plugged in my Mom's zipcode in southern MD, and the nearest one is about 12 miles away, and there are only four within 20 miles.
Sears Warehouse - Closed 1992. Demolished 1994.
Just above Grant Avenue was home to Whitman's Chocolates before the company was bought out by Russell Stover and the plant closed and demolished.
Funny how a whole lot of good jobs that provided a living wage were replaced by a handful of "McJobs."
Both Wal~Marts are hellish places where only the most reckless and self-destructive individual would venture to go. The one on Adams is a violent zoo that is constantly under the attention of the police and the other one is a filthy, disgusting place that reminds one of a third-world country. I only go to this Wal~Mart as a last-ditch effort and feel like I need a shower after I've been there. One Wal~Mart in the suburbs which once was a pretty decent place to shop has now degraded into "Jerry Springer's green room."
Just everyday savings for the everyday man.
True, they don't have the selection of a specialized store, but they still carry enough variety that I can get quite a bit of supplies for my boat and RV. Only time I go to an RV or Boat dealer is for service related parts.