Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Steve, if you take to being condensing to people on this board

    Condensing? Come on! You're setting him up!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    edited December 2011
    No, that was bailing on BofA, remember? In this new world where not all of us can live in slimy irresponsible false-nation tax havens, one can't simply walk away from a a living wage job and expect to jump into one the next day.

    But there is an amusing accountability gap between the executive ranks and those below, and it continues to grow along with the exploding wealth gap as what was the first world continues to decay.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,386
    Condensing? Come on! You're setting him up!

    I'll tell you one thing, the host better not try to condense me!
    ;) :P :D

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We encrypt everything but it's still a big loss, and can be wiped and sold.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    - cars (not from China)
    - gasoline (not from China)
    - food (almost none from China)
    - housing? (not from China, except maybe drywall)
    - utilities? (not from China)
    - services (mail, yard work, housekeeper, etc. - none of it from China)
    - communications (internet, phone, cell phone, TV, etc. - not from China)
    - booze, cigarettes (not from China)
    - entertainment (movies, plays, football games, etc. - not from China)


    Thought about this more and more...

    More and more car parts, even sub-assemblies, are coming from China. The electric engine for the Malibu Eco is made there.

    Gas is refined here but a lot is imported. They just lifted a tax on Brazilian ethanol so if you're using E10 a good amount likely comes from the sugar cane fields in NE Brazil. Not China, but a BRIC country at least.

    The people doing those services are likely wearing shoes and clothes made in China, and probably many tools as well.

    All the comms tech is pretty much coming from China. Especially after the tsunami hit Japan and created shortages of tech from that island.

    Indirectly, a lot of money spent ends up in China one way or another.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >the host better not try to condense me!

    Over Christmas read a Michael Crichton book Micro about condensing people and things. A company in Hawaii had developed the capability to reduce all kinds of things in size. So people were stuck in an Hawaiian forest smaller than ants and trying to survive against the antagonist.

    So many we each could be "condensed." ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    It is kind of ironic that Toyota, in the name of "maintaining Japan's mfr. base" would risk shooting themselves in the foot by producing cars there for import elsewhere, given the strenght of the yen.

    Kind of like the Big 3 not demanding concessions from the UAW 30-40 yrs ago.

    Maybe their management is pigheaded, thinking losing money on a car built there is nobler than making money on a car built elsewhere (for overseas consumption, not "domestic").
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Try any department store, the Big Box guys, it's 80%+ on Asian content...The worst offender is "Target", the Archer Farms brand is always suspect..Clothes are all from some Asian "sweat shop."

    Living in SW Florida, Asian and European cars dominate the roadway..The B3 are on a rapid decline inspite of the hype of sales reports coming from the media..Look at the stock pricing of GM and Ford, both in the cellar..VW is getting serious about expanding sales with a new plant in Tenn..Toyota and Honda will always shine in spite of their occasional mistakes..The Kia and Hyundai lines are going strong with their new stateside assembly plants, 10 yr warranty and cheapo pricing..Throw in Nissan to complete the volume foreign nameplates and you have enough selection available, so who needs Detroit??

    After owning 51 "Big 3" wheels and 2 German autos, my last selection will be a 2012 5.0 Mustang GT which should take me into the "twilight zone" or the DMV revokes my license..

    I imagine that most you fine people on this forum missed the great Detroit automotive years, well I didn't, it was a blast!!!!!

    Happy New Year!!!!!!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    No, that was bailing on BofA, remember?

    You did? Congratulations! Doesn't it feel good? I bailed on my megabank (the other bad one).

    But there is an amusing accountability gap between the executive ranks and those below...

    I don't find it amusing at all. :cry:
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    didn't, it was a blast!!!!!

    I'm sure that while I owned a big 3 car the mechanics, tow truck companies, and auto shops and Dodge dealerships in my area all threw big parties and had a blast at my expense.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh, I was around for a good part of the muscle car era. Too bad I was only about 6 or 7 years-old by the time it ended. Wish I was born earlier so I truly could've enjoyed it! The 1950s and 1960s must've truly been awesome!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,045
    Over Christmas read a Michael Crichton book Micro about condensing people and things.

    I remember an episode of Bewitched where Endora shrunk Derwood down, and he almost got eaten by Mrs. Kravitz's great dane! I imagine the Michael Crichton story had a bit more depth to it, though. :P

    I think this is what Derwood was driving in that episode...
    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    edited December 2011
    There's a nice local credit union just down the street from me. So easy.

    My amusement was kind of ironic or sarcastic...if anything, there seems to be a nearly inverse relationship between pay and accountability. Where a high exec can blunder into huge losses and skate free, a manager can destroy a laptop and never answer for it, but a lowly CSR will be canned for being 10 minutes late. Must be the service economy blossoming into maturity.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    If its good enough for Bin Laden, its not good enough for me!

    Memo to BERRI: Bin Laden is dead.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    his is one thing Steve Jobs should've been ashamed of.

    I don't think he's rolling over in his grave.

    Apple products have a reputation for great reliability and quality.

    If they were made in the USA, I'm sorry, but that probably wouldn't be possible based on my experience. People need more training to be worthwhile and good in the USA.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Memo to BERRI: Bin Laden is dead

    Now there's a news headline - just kidding!

    My point was that I won't buy anything Pakistani because he is what they are all about.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    My point was that I won't buy anything Pakistani because he is what they are all about.


    Fair enough, it's a free country, but somehow I think the right people aren't the one's being punished by your refusal to buy a pakistani belt or shirt at a clothing store.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    I mentioned how I rail against a lot of bad companies, including Rite Aid, Chrysler, Best Buy, and others.

    I mentioned how I balanced it out with a long list of good companies, one of which for example was Audi. He said I was biased "since I guess I own an Audi which makes me biased???" Anyway, I mentioned how they sent me a couple of letters extending the warranty on some key parts to 10 years, or 120,000 miles, which is saving me about $800 currently. He didn't seem convinced, so I mentioned that Dodge never sent me any such letters, and his comment was, "well, if Dodge had sent you those letters, they'd of gone out of business and run out of paper and stamps!"

    Alludes to my previous argument that you can go out of business with respect and dignity covering and standing behind your parts, or you can go out of business anyway eventually, but with no respect or dignity, and with burned pissed off customers to boot (but the latter takes a little longer and gets you bailed out).

    Either way, you are going out of business, might as well do it without burning fellow Americans. Unforgiveable!
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Pakistan - the majority of that population hates America and chants they wish for our death. Damn right I'll boycott them! Hopefully now that they shut the border down, and likely lied about much of the events leading to it, Washington has shutdown the open checkbook.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    If they were made in the USA, I'm sorry, but that probably wouldn't be possible based on my experience. People need more training to be worthwhile and good in the USA.

    It's easy to complain about Apple. Fact is that they employ thousands of highly paid workers in Cupertino. They make US Brand products that are the envy of the world. Many of the parts assembled in China are procured outside of China. Apple is building a semiconductor factory in Texas where future processors for its i-devices will be manufactured. They are also moving some production to Brazil. And Steve Jobs complained about the regulations in the states, especially California.

    I'd rather be proud of Apple than be embarrassed by GM. Why can't GM be the Audi of the US, or like Apple? They should be making products that are coveted by others all over the world. The only place that this is currently true is in China, for some irony.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    edited December 2011
    I doubt that checkbook will ever be closed. Funding Pakistan creates regional worry, which means Israel remains on the dole, and they love the trinkets bought with our tax dollars.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Any quality in an Apple product is due to where it was designed, not where it was built - an area with very little modern history of quality or innovation.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    Surely they've either thoroughly trained (extremely well) or exported some good managers and supervisors to oversee the manufacturing process and quality control.

    Some good quality products come out of China, as do some terrible ones; the choice of effort, cost, quality does come down to the companies own choices sometimes.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Some good quality products come out of China, as do some terrible ones; the choice of effort, cost, quality does come down to the companies own choices sometimes.

    Exactly. My company distributes a Chinese manufactured product and our clients are always suprised at how high end the product is. The Chinese will build whatever you specify. Spec junk - get junk. Spec Six Sigma - get Six Sigma.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    If you have 100% oversight of production and management, I am sure China can make nice things. But if you leave it up to the locals who are known to be a little less than devoted to quality, I don't know.

    I see Chinese tires are hitting our shores now...I wouldn't go there.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    For sure, China has rightfully earned the perception of low quality products.

    If a good manufacturer chooses to make one of their products there, the perception is they did so to line their pockets with more profit and not to make a world-class leading edge new product with the highest quality possible.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    For the most part, that perception is reality. People don't seek China for quality and innovation, they seek it for low labor costs and very low social and environmental standards. I look at the recent high speed rail problems as very indicative of the entire structure, and if I was there, I would be concerned about how some of the highrise buildings there will fare in another 10 or 20 years.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Some good quality products come out of the United States*, as do some terrible ones; the choice of effort, cost, quality does come down to the companies own choices sometimes.

    *Canada, Japan, Germany, England, India, yada yada.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    But which places are more likely to have great products?

    China isn't at the top of the list. Let's be real.

    There are exceptions to every rule, this doesn't eliminate the rule.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    Depends on the product too, doesn't it?

    Ming vases (fine porcelain in general)? China is right up there.

    Commercial jets? US (Boeing), although the case could be made for Airbus.

    Heavy ships? South Korea.

    Cars? Well, China and India would have to be near the bottom. Japan and South Korea were once perceived to be there too.

    Computers? My Lenovo is still ticking.

    Sneakers, solar panels, gotta be a long list there.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    And at least China is TRYING to build high speed trains. And then there's the California HS rail project. :cry::cry:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Let's keep it in the past 500 years. If Ming vases are being used to defend China, then we are grasping at straws. All you'll find being made there - in typical modern Chinese fashion - are copies.

    I don't know if I can compare the Japanese or Korean industrial ethos to what I see coming from China.

    How much of that Chinese assembled material was designed and/or refined there? Yeah, I didn't think so :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    Ming is just a "brand name" that you'd recognize. They still do fine pottery there.

    China's big problem is that they haven't discovered SuperBowl advertising. Won't be too many more years until more of their brands are household names; we just haven't heard about them yet. We just hear about the Yankee brands that are being made there. Maybe this is as good as a Whirlpool.

    Maybe if we spoke Mandarin....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    edited January 2012
    They do fine pottery just about everywhere.

    The Chinese government could buy tons of advertising if they wished - we've sent them enough money (in exchange for sheeple-distracting knickacks) to fund a superbowl a day for the rest of time. Maybe they know the products, for the most part, simply aren't up to par.

    Should be a dream for the bleeding heart one worlders out there anyway, what a great legacy some will have on their heads - makes em feel good about some kind of past misdeeds, I think.

    image

    Maybe the one on the bottom is as good as the one on the top, too. Right.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    Prettier color for sure. :P

    They do fine pottery just about everywhere.

    Sort of props up my argument. No reason the Chinese (or the Indians, eventually) can't make good cars.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Yes, a flat appliance white probably with high lead content...I wish I had a car like that! :P

    The numerous copycars sum it all up, in my eyes.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You guys are forgetting about China continually hacking and stealing from US companies, forcing down an American Navy plane over international waters, aggressively abusing US allies like S.Korea and Japan in the Pacific, etc. etc. China is a thief and currency manipulator, certainly not a friend or ally. US companies doing business with them shouldn't rely on our taxpayers bailing them out when they get shafted down the road since there are plenty of friendlier places to offshore they could have chosen instead. Trust me, companies like GM will likely be in for a rude awakening down the road when China decides they don't need them any more.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    It's all short term fortunes with no thought of long term consequences. It's pretty much the operational model of the modern MBA holder allowed into "leadership" because he/she can increase profits no matter the real cost.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    I recently heard Exxon got paid 255 million by the Venezuelan gov't for assets "claimed and nationalized."

    I don't know if that was a good deal for them or not, but at least they didn't get completely shafted.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    It's more than we get for material transferred to China, I suspect.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    companies like GM will likely be in for a rude awakening down the road when China decides they don't need them any more

    I agree.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A reporter is looking for midsize or small car owners who switched from Honda or Toyota to Chrysler, Ford or GM. Email pr@edmunds.com by Friday, January 6, 2011 with a few words about your car choice and your experience so far.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/05/70-of-japanese-vehicles-sold-in-america-are-b- uilt-here-too/

    Last year, a total of 145,000 vehicles were built in the U.S. for foreign markets by Japanese automakers, up from 95,000 units in 2010.
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    Are we really this clueless of a society?? I saw a bumper sticker on a Toyota Tacoma yesterday. It read " Support union labor" Support union Iron workers... ON A Toyota!! If I could have only had a word with this guy and tried to figure out his logic??? Now don't get me wrong here. I myself am in no way a union supporter. But If I worked for a union and wanted to support union labor I would not have purchased a Toyota!

    Fintail - you are a person I would love to converse with. You hit it right on the money about how there are those Americans who are so greedy and self centered they don't think about OUR country and its future. Short term profits and gains no matter the cost.

    I had a conversation in another chat room about a guy who bought a KIA Optima a while back. He went on and on about price, value, ect.. I asked him about the longterm price to the U.S. economy. He just looked at me in a blank stare. After a good debate and adult conversation. He understood what I meant and how his purchase didn't help our economy here at home nor his future job prospects or stability.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "....... But If I worked for a union and wanted to support union labor I would not have purchased a Toyota!"

    Ummm.......as much as I would LIKE to agree with you, there is a caveat with the Tacoma and the Corrolla. Prior to the closing of the NUMMI plant in Fremont, Ca., all American built Tacomas and Corrollas were built there with UNION LABOR!!!! Now, if it is that much newer, it was built with NON UNION labor in Tx.

    But it IS a point well taken. Much like the time I saw a guy on 495 in Mass w/ a bumper sticker saying that we should boycott French companies.

    Driving his Nissan Altima.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2012
    My Nissan was built by UAW workers at a Ford plant in Ohio.

    It won't die either. :)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2012
    If I could have only had a word with this guy and tried to figure out his logic?

    He probably didn't want a lousy v6 Dakota, an ancient Ranger, or a weak kneed undersized Colorado. I wouldn't buy a domestic midsize pickup either.

    I know lots of steel mill workers and iron workers that drive non domestics. I'm not going to buy a product I don't like.. PERIOD.

    My FIL is retired from the steel mills as USW union retiree. He bought my MIL a Camry. He didn't care that it wasn't union built, he just cared that it was assembled here.

    I buy domestic or at least as fintail would describe (1st world) as often as possible. I do have two domestic vehicles in the driveway, though as usual there is a maintenance price to paid for doing so.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I buy domestic or at least as fintail would describe (1st world) as often as possible. I do have two domestic vehicles in the driveway

    I try to go by US content. Some transplants like Camry are actually more American than some D3 vehicles like Fusion.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Maybe he meant support Japanese union workers (I know the trucks aren't built there but some profit does go there)? As pretty much all of our first world trading "partners" have remained profitable while retaining a union presence that resembles 1950s USA. Many reasons for it.

    On cars though, my purchases don't matter - I have never bought a brand new car and maybe never will, I just don't see the value proposition when so many depreciate like day old bread, and most cars are so good now that a few years age doesn't hurt them.

    Short term profits and unsustainable policy are the mantra of the new world breed of corporate and political leadership. No thought to the future, and no accountability. At least an Optima is built with US labor - beats buying something with a "K" VIN or even worse, something in the future that might have a "C" VIN.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Are we really this clueless of a society?? I saw a bumper sticker on a Toyota Tacoma yesterday. It read " Support union labor

    UAW has a few imports on their "Acceptable" list.

    Cars, Trucks & Vans by Union Members
    in the United States (UAW) and Canada (CAW) 2012
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