Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

stever

Agree with that too, although sometimes the bad ones just seem to run in batches.

dieselone

Though from the factory, those items seem to be better today. I can't remember the last time I've had to replace a starter or alternator. Oops, probably just jinxed myself;)

andre1969

I can't remember the last time I've had to replace a starter or alternator. Oops, probably just jinxed myself;)

Yeah, I should probably keep quiet about that one, myself! Thinking back though, I think it was in 2002, and on my '89 Gran Fury copcar. That sucker used a lightweight starter that my mechanic said was really designed for a 4-cyl Accord. I remember it eating its first starter in late 1998, soon after I bought it.

It ate that one in late 2000, IIRC, out of warranty naturally. The next one was late 2001, but still under warranty. Then it at THREE more, within about a 6 or 7 month period!

Other than that car, I remember my '68 Dart eating a starter sometime in the mid 90's, my '79 Newport killing one back in 1997, and my '80 Malibu sometime in late 1988.

dieselone

Another thing that seems to last longer are water pumps. Another item I haven't replaced in forever. I always remember my grandpa's v8 cars having a water pump that would start leaking around 90-100k miles.

My FIL had 3 ram vans in a row with a 318 and every one needed a timing chain around 100k or so. Those vans all went 200k+, but lots of things needed replaced to get there.

roadburner

Let's see, I think I may have replaced a starter and alternator on my 1974 Monte Carlo in the late '70s or early '80s. I replaced the alternator brushes on my 1973 Bavaria back in 1983 or 1984, and I replaced the alternator on my 1984 T-Bird Turbo Coupe in 1993.
Oh, yeah, I did have to clean the connections on my 1975 2002's alternator last month. Unreliable German cars... :P

andre1969

water pumps were the final straw on my '79 Newport and '89 Gran Fury. The Newport had about 250,000 miles on it when the water pump failed. In addition to that, the a/c didn't work, it was rusting, one of the windows was coming off its track, etc. I figured that a 10 year newer car with less than 1/3 the miles on it would HAVE to be a lot more reliable. But, unfortunately, that '89 Gran Fury, which had about 73,000 on it when I bought it, wasn't.

The Gran Fury had about 118,000 miles on it when its water pump started leaking. And by that time it was just a spare car, so I used that as an excuse to get rid of it.

Just this year, I had to have the water pump replaced on my '67 Catalina and '85 Silverado.

It's probably a good thing that modern water pumps DON'T fail like they used to, because many of them are mounted internally, and when they fail, they're really expensive to get to. Or worse, they let coolant get into the oil passages and ruin the whole engine.

roadburner

The water pump design on my 1995 318ti is really clever; it seals to the block with an o-ring- no gasket required-



It also has two threaded flanges that accept bolts that you use to push the water pump out of the block. Not too pricey, either- under $60...
Mine hasn't needed one yet.

stever

People are starting to question their mechanics when changing their timing belts, since few people hear about failed water pumps anymore. I think a few of them are choosing to forgo replacing it, even though "they are in there" when replacing the timing belt.

Mine got done on my Outback in 2010 when I had the belt replaced; $89 part and no extra labor charge on the bill. Cheap insurance I guess. The van's V6 is non-interference so I'm ignoring both of them.

dieselone

It's probably a good thing that modern water pumps DON'T fail like they used to, because many of them are mounted internally, and when they fail, they're really expensive to get to. Or worse, they let coolant get into the oil passages and ruin the whole engine.

Belt driven OHC engines are slowing going away, but it used to be routine to replace the water pump with the timing belt. I had a water pump seize on my '86 Escort which took out the timing belt, leaving me dead on the side of the road. Thankfully, that engine was a non-interference design and it didn't hurt anything.

I made the mistake of changing the timing belt myself at 60k and not replacing the water pump. 15k miles later I was doing the whole job over again:(

I don't recall things like water pumps and heater cores ever being fun to change.

fezo

On my old 00 Accord when I had the first timing belt replaced at 105K they didn't do the water pump. Just said, "we inspected it and it's fine. We'll do it next time." It was still doing fine at the next replacement around 215K but we did replace it that time.

robr2

it seals to the block with an o-ring- no gasket required

Mr. Symantics here - you know an o-ring is just a different type of gasket???

marsha7

the manual said to change the timing belt every 60K miles, but three different Honda dealers all said to go 75K, but not one mile over 75K...they all also said that you change the water pump (another $30) when you change the belt, because you were looking right at the pump and it was labor-free, since everything was taken apart anyway...I always followed that advice and my cars never broke down for THAT reason anyway, the belt or the pump...

roadburner

I meant no paper or flange gasket.

fezo

My earlier Hondas said 60K. The later ones 105K.

cannon3

For those in this forum that understand the more intuitive, in-depth meaning of buying American and what it truely means.. We must educate the younger gen on what buying American goods and services means to their future. I once again came across a college educated young person who bitched and complained about having no real opportunities for a good paying job. College was a waist.. blah, blah, blah. My immediate response was what do you do to ensure you have a good paying job, or job opportunities are availabe here in the U.S.? His response.. What do you mean?? Well, after some explaination and debate.. Walla!! he got it!! People, demand American goods and services. It is possible. Yes, it may take more effort. But, anything worth while takes effort.

stever

Education starts at home.

Truly. Generation. College is a waste, not a diet. We have a spell checker available.

I'll give you walla - I never can remember how to spell it either. It's voilà. I usually don't worry much about chat typo since I make plenty myself, but it's a bit ironic looking at your post title.

Buying American cars should mean doing your homework.

:shades: :shades: :shades:

fezo

At leats he spelled educate correctly....

stever

If you're still in the 30 minute edit window you may want to fix "leats". :shades:

I'm sorry but I don't get it. I have 100 shares of Ford and 100 shares of Toyota and a bit of a South Korean ETF that (I think) owns a bit of Hyundai/Kia. If Ford does good my neighbors do good (and my stock value goes up and maybe I'll get a dividend).

If Toyota does good, my old neighbors down near Blue Springs, not all that far from where I grew up, go good. And my stock ownership gets rewarded.

Down in Chattanooga, I have a nephew who works for a brake manufacturing company. They aren't doing work for VW yet, but I can see it coming. Over in Huntsville, I have a nephew making steel. Some of the rolled stuff likely gets to south Alabama for the Mercedes factory and suppliers so he does good. Maybe some gets over to the Hyundai factory in South Carolina and makes their cars better, and helps my ETF make money. Meanwhile his brother-in-law across town is following in his dad's engine building footsteps. Except his dad made GM engines - he's making Toyota ones.

It's a global, interconnected world. Buy what you like.

(And thread crapping on a BMW discussion doesn't exactly help GM look better, if you get my drift. If you can't build up your own brand without have to degrade the competition, you have the wrong idea on how to win customers).

hpmctorque

Did I see that picture correctly? It looks to me as though Kim Jong Il's hearse is a stretched Lincoln Town Car.

dieselone

Yeah, on CNN they have video of the procession and they had what looked liked old Lincolns and MBs.

marsha7

What???...North Korea doesn't have its own domestic auto industry???...

fezo

If you're still in the 30 minute edit window you may want to fix "leats".

Curses. Missed by a mere half a day.

imidazol97

>(And thread crapping on a BMW discussion doesn't exactly help GM look better, if you get my drift. If you can't build up your own brand without have to degrade the competition, you have the wrong idea on how to win customers).

I'd like to see that philosophy applied in the GM News, New Models and Market Share discussion.

>Down in Chattanooga, I have a nephew who works for a brake manufacturing company. They aren't doing work for VW yet, but I can see it coming. Over in Huntsville, I have a nephew making

While building here makes some jobs in the US, do all the companies use US-based and US-owned suppliers? Or have some in the past helped set up suppliers here with ties back to the mother country?

Looking at indirect logic. if there is no money going back to the corporate owner in the foreign country, what benefit is it for the company to build in the US? Exemplia gratia, if Toyota doesn't benefit from building here in Japan with money going to them there, wouldn't it be better to have the jobs in Japan building their Camry and shipping them here? That would keep the jobs and trickle down cash flow helping their economy rather than ours?

robr2

Looking at indirect logic. if there is no money going back to the corporate owner in the foreign country, what benefit is it for the company to build in the US? Exemplia gratia, if Toyota doesn't benefit from building here in Japan with money going to them there, wouldn't it be better to have the jobs in Japan building their Camry and shipping them here? That would keep the jobs and trickle down cash flow helping their economy rather than ours?

It all gets a bit convoluted. Right now the Yen is trading at about Y77 per dollar. Two years ago it was Y100 per dollar. If Toyota brings those dollars back today, they are basically making 23% less.

Hence it makes sense to keep the money in the US and spend it here. Sending it back and building Camries there would increase their cost by 23%.

stever

Hence it makes sense to keep the money in the US and spend it here.

Because of currency fluctuations and tax laws, that's what most multinationals seem to do. Lots of US corporations are holding scads of cash overseas because it's more profitable to leave it the country where it was generated.

The American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 let corporations repatriate foreign profits at a much reduced statutory tax rate, but I'm not sure that did much other than to put the cash back in the US. (link)

lemko

I give you the Pyeonghwa Hwiparam, (I can't pronounce it either)!

fezo

Must be a NORTH Korean car.....

fintail

Looks like a re-nosed Dacia Logan with an old Fiat badge. Seeing as the French will do business with absolutely anyone, probably is.

I like their MB W201 copycar more:

roadburner

(And thread crapping on a BMW discussion doesn't exactly help GM look better, if you get my drift. If you can't build up your own brand without have to degrade the competition, you have the wrong idea on how to win customers).

Haven't you heard? Only status-seekers purchase BMWs. Humble, erudite and affluent patriots BUY AMERICAN!!!

marsha7

Yeah, but not quite classy enough for the funeral of a national leader, altho probably all he deserves...:)

fezo

You want to give him what he deserves? No problem....

stever

Ugh, WM. I'm irritated with those guys too.

"Goods and services from China accounted for only 2.7% of U.S. personal consumption expenditures in 2010, of which less than half reflected the actual costs of Chinese imports. The rest went to U.S. businesses and workers transporting, selling, and marketing goods carrying the 'Made in China' label. Although the fraction is higher when the imported content of goods made in the United States is considered, Chinese imports still make up only a small share of total U.S. consumer spending."

Should You "Buy American" to Create Jobs? (Yahoo)

More on Diane Sawyer's reporting - Plain Talk: In 2012, resolve to buy American goods (madison.com)

fintail

That number is kind of suspect when one goes shopping and examines where everything is made, or observes how the other WM ranks in the ranks of global purchasers of Chinese goods. I suspect that "consumption" pr "consumer spending" includes expenses like fuel and healthcare, maybe even housing and education. Otherwise, I can't buy it.

stever

Another part of the exercise is to swap China for Japan, Korea, Bangladesh and the rest.

ateixeira

That's called a Fiat Palio in Brazil. They sold tons of them, but it's an older design, of course.

fezo: good one!

ateixeira

That number is kind of suspect

It feels like the iPad 2 alone (all made in China) accounts for that 2.7% of Xmas sales.

fintail

They probably don't count that as it was "designed in California" :sick:

MSM has certainly been told not to question what globalization has wrought

tlong

That number is kind of suspect when one goes shopping and examines where everything is made, or observes how the other WM ranks in the ranks of global purchasers of Chinese goods.

I don't see it as out of line. The original measure was "goods and services....personal consumption expenditures" and while we can only guess what those things are, I suspect it probably includes:

- cars (not from China)
- gasoline (not from China)
- food (almost none from China)
- housing? (not from China, except maybe drywall)
- utilities? (not from China)
- services (mail, yard work, housekeeper, etc. - none of it from China)
- communications (internet, phone, cell phone, TV, etc. - not from China)
- booze, cigarettes (not from China)
- entertainment (movies, plays, football games, etc. - not from China)

IMHO 2.7% of the value of personal goods and services from China sounds reasonable if these assumptions are correct.

ateixeira

We should clarify and call that one category "communications services", because we know just about every cell phone and TV and internet device is indeed made in China, the hardware at least.

berri

IMHO 2.7% of the value of personal goods and services from China sounds reasonable if these assumptions are correct.

Another misused statistic based on a dumb base. Personally, I don't think the percent is nearly as important as the "lost industrial capabilities" that the US is experiencing thanks to corporate greed. For example, as the world is going electronic, we now have little manufacturing base in that area and what we have is rapidly declining. That's plain dumb and dangerous to our nation.

fintail

And healthcare, education, travel, etc, which will all not be counted as "made in China" in order to produce a misleading stat for the China and "free trade" supporters out there. Remember the three types of lies...the fact that "we can only guess" when a hard number is produced proves to me that an agenda is being pushed.

But if one looks at things other than food (hopefully), housing, fuel, healthcare, labor, etc, the number shoots up. Maybe a more accurate stat would be to examine what part of small and medium sized household goods come from our "most favored" trading partner/grand social and environmental criminal etc, or something along the lines of value added. And who really benefits.

tlong

Another misused statistic based on a dumb base. Personally, I don't think the percent is nearly as important as the "lost industrial capabilities" that the US is experiencing thanks to corporate greed. For example, as the world is going electronic, we now have little manufacturing base in that area and what we have is rapidly declining. That's plain dumb and dangerous to our nation.

Agreed.

Interesting that I read an article in the last couple of days that indicated Toyota is trying to hold firm on the number of vehicles manufactured in Japan, even though others are outsourcing (including to the U.S.!). The head of Toyota wants to maintain Japan's manufacturing base. So everybody is worrying about it, to varying degrees.

ateixeira

The yen is killing them, they need to diversify.

fezo

It feels like the iPad 2 alone (all made in China) accounts for that 2.7% of Xmas sales.

And you didn't get me one?

fezo

Personally, I don't think the percent is nearly as important as the "lost industrial capabilities" that the US is experiencing thanks to corporate greed. For example, as the world is going electronic, we now have little manufacturing base in that area and what we have is rapidly declining. That's plain dumb and dangerous to our nation.

Amen.

ateixeira

The management team here got 'em, one already lost his! DOH!

fintail

I don't even want to think what would happen if "leadership" where I work was given something like that. I still shudder at the incident several years ago when one put a laptop in a soft bag and checked it - of course it was destroyed. And then those who have the devices stolen with sensitive data on them - no reprimand ever given of course. It's not what you know that makes success...

And these are the people working hardest for the race to the bottom...think about it...

cannon3

I must have hit a cord in order to have the room "host" comment on my misspellings. Truth sometimes hard to swallow for some I guess...

Steve, if you take to being condensing to people on this board you may not agree with, it sure is not going to make you much of a host now is it??

stever

Welcome back - it was pretty funny seeing how you titled your post "Educate!".

Apologies if though I came down on your too hard, or if you don't like my position that you should buy what you like, and that foreign companies doing business in the US also create jobs for Americans.

tlong

I don't even want to think what would happen if "leadership" where I work was given something like that.

We've been telling you to bail on that company! Don't want you racing to the bottom with corporate criminals like that. :P