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Comments
While Ford doesn't make the Fusion here, the Focus and Escape are serious volume cars for them. The Taurus and Mustang are no slouch either, nor is Chevy's Traverse. Chrysler....do they have "volume?"
Anyway, there are lots of options if someone wants to buy an American branded car that is also built in America.
Sure, but all I have maintained is that there are many "imports" out there that supply jobs to many Americans who would be stocking shelves at Walmart if not for those carmakers...and they are non-union jobs, which means that the people will be grateful for the job instead of the militant-can't-wait-to-strike-UAW-welfare-entitlement-job and they might actually care about the product they make, unlike our UAW friends...
Whether Ford makes the profit or Honda makes the profit, if they create jobs for Americans that is OK in my book...I can buy Honda stock or I can buy Ford stock and either way I might make money...
To blindly say that Honda profits go overseas is not quite true...if those profits allow them to build another assembly plant here, then that profit really ends up in America, which I think some folks simply refuse to acknowledge...would it be nicer if all Fords were made here???...yes, it would...but if their newest state of the art plant is in Brazil (and I don't fault them for that, knowing the UAW) and Hyuandai (sp?) newest plant is in West Point, Georgia, who is improving the job situation for Americans, the "American" company or the "Import" company???
And I agree with that. Those investments made by the transplants translate into thousands of jobs here in America. Whether we like it or not, the auto industry - and just about every other industry - is global.
Yeah, but Sonic was designed in Korea, Focus in Europe, I believe.
So all the white collar engineering and design jobs are overseas, same as a Korean or German car built in the USA.
Go one size smaller and the Spark and Fiesta are both designed and built elsewhere.
Honestly anything built here is going to have had SOME engineering and design done here for localization purposes, so it's far from "all" of the white collar jobs being overseas. Beyond that, Europeans are better at designing sport compacts anyway. :shades: But 100%? In today's economy, you'll be hard-pressed to find a Big 3 car assembled in the US from 100% US-sourced content and made only by US-based American engineers. If for no other reason than not enough Americans study engineering in college.
For me, personally, I want the car that best meets my needs. If I happen to come across someone on these boards from Indiana who works for a supplier and made a part for my minivan, I'm cool with that.
As long as the part hasn't broken.
As long as it isn't from China (or probably India), I don't have much care. As you say, nothing is 100% American. It's the same everywhere that has an open auto market - there are no real 100% British cars anymore either, everything there is either designed by Germans, owned by Germans, or owned by sometimes sketchy second worlders.
Turn about is fair play.
So all the white collar engineering and design jobs are overseas, same as a Korean or German car built in the USA.
I find it funny - we are supposed to "Buy American" according to some definitions that means the D3. It's not good to buy a "foreign" nameplate, because even if built here, "it was designed overseas" and "the profits go back to " .
Yet in many cases the US makes are "made somewhere else" or "designed somewhere else" and somehow that's ok!
Actually, quite a few of the foreign makes also design for the U.S. market in THIS country.
The argument to that is usually that the management is foreign, though. :surprise:
There is no satisfying some people that cars are built here, with high U.S. content, with US labor, with US designers, with US taxes paid and US business boosted, with the ability to own that company's stock on the US stock market -- yet somehow that foreign nameplate makes all the differences in undesirability.
I laugh more at RR and Bentley being fancy BMWs and VWs today, along with Morgans having BMW engines.
That is why sometimes this droning "Buy American" chant from some posters is whisting in the wind...I think a car designed in Japan but has the engine built here by American labor, steel stamped here by American labor, car built here by American labor, and sold and serviced by American-owned dealers who employ American technicians and body repair people is a better American bargain for us than the Ford designed in Dearborn and built in Brazil and Mexico...
Maybe "domestic content" isn't the entire parameter...maybe, if it can be calculated, "domestic jobs produced" is a better parameter...
Like I said earlier...if Japanese or Korean profits cause them to build another assembly plant here, then those profits result in American jobs that pay our workers American dollars and lift our economy...
Maybe it is different between something as sophisticated as a car as opposed to a Chinese-made drill compared to an American drill, because there simply may not be as much to making a drill...so one should look to Buy American because the entire drill is imported from China, but a car company based in Korea may provide many jobs here due to the compexity of the car...
And you know those carmakers will employ normal Americans, not UAW
Americans, which are not normal... :P
Well if you believe Issacson (the biographer), Jobs was really not driven by money (unlike most corporate execs). He even complained to both Issacson and even Obama. Jobs said that US schools sucked, and we weren't graduating enough engineers in this country. Foxconn, who makes most of the Apple products, has 700,000 (!) workers in China. Apparently workers like that need engineering support, and the reasonable ratio is 30,000 engineers to the 700K workers. And there just aren't anywhere near that many to hire in the states. Jobs also complained about the regulations - he could build a plant in 6 months in China, but in California in six months you are still filling out paperwork. So while money may have an impact, IMHO there really *were* substantial issues in the states that were not monetary. Jobs apparently lamented this to Issacson multiple times, and according to Issacson Jobs really wanted to bring more jobs to the US.
The key word is qualified engineers. I have several friends that work in software development with computer science degrees. None have had employment issues. One friend in particular has worked for a few silicon valley starts ups that lost their VC funding. Over the past 3 years she was laid off twice and was re-employed within a month both times earning over $150k/yr and she works out of her house in the midwest. The top tech companies want the best engineers and they pay accordingly.
Just look at the perks some of these software companies offer. It's unbelievable the work environment they get to work..er play in.
We have a few tech companies locally, and they are always advertising for software engineers. WolframAlpha is one of them.
My wife went through the H1B program to hire pharmacists a few years ago when there was a severe shortage. It was to the point she was handing out $40k+ sign on bonuses to new grads on top of a $120k/yr salary + overtime pay, and she was still getting turned down. She paid the H1B workers the same as anyone else sign on bonuses and all. She hated the whole process and apparently the red tape is a nightmare to the point she didn't pursue the program for very long.
I've heard about an "engineer shortage" in Germany as well, which is a pile of manure. It's not a shortage of engineers, it's a shortage of those who will accept new world order compensation - so then you import newbies to drive down the wage structure. From everything I have heard, being named an "engineer" in Chindia is not exactly the same as gaining the title here. Not exactly a place that is producing much in the way of innovation or even independent thought, either.
I read somewhere within the past few months anyway that Foxconn was planning on purchasing 1 million robots, I think it was in Wired or something similar. I guess that's one way to resolve labor issues.
Me too. Seems if a person over there has a job cleaning toilet bowls, they have a job title of sanitation engineer.
Those Foxconn robots are probably the new "engineers".
Isn't that the truth:(
It's probably more like 90% of the 150% of base pay they earn with o/t while padding hours during their last few working years.
A friend of mine's dad pulled that trick, put in 30 years working for a local county government (vehicle maintenance), worked a ton of hours his last 5 years. Don't know why, the guy is a hilarious skinflint, actually drove a Chevy Luv from 1975-2005, giving it up only because it just couldn't merge fast enough anymore. Don't know what he'll do with his lottery winnings, as it is.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Heck, at the rate I've been going, I might have to pimp out Grandma and her cousin in a twofer, just to be keepin' our heads above water, makin' a wave when we can (Good Times)...
More to follow on the Toyota/Honda transplants that assemble vehicles here in the U.S.
http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/fact_kit.html
More to come.
Again I ask:
What if no American company sells the product you want?
For example I prefer a motorcycle style(streetfighter) that is not built by H-D or Victory.
Should I just bite the bullet and put on 50 pounds, buy a doo-rag, and pick up a Road King?
Oh yeah; here is another reason I will NEVER, EVER purchase a UAW assembled vehicle(from Peter De Lorenzo's Autoextremist.com):
From the "Same Old S**t, Different Day" File comes word that UAW honcho Bob "I know what's best for America" King, hell-bent on organizing Asian and European U.S.-based assembly facilities, is going to start harassing the dealerships of these manufacturers in an attempt at extorting concessions. Will it work? Our bet is that it will manage to piss consumers off royally and just hasten the departure of the UAW as a viable entity in this country. But King doesn't get it. Not by a long shot. Evidence? Last January, as reported by Automotive News, he warned that the UAW will label any automaker that tries to block its efforts as a "human-rights violator." Nice.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
More power to you; buy what you like. I don't tell anyone else what to buy and I would like to be receive the same courtesy.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Wow. Just wow. We're supposed to reward them for being half as efficient?
Of course. Got to keep the UAW Pensions fully funded!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Then again, they also make Chryslers don't they?
Not exactly unbiased.
That's like asking OPEC for their opinion relationship between fossil fuels and global warning.
Response: give us more money for our oil! So of course we don't cause that.
Bought one right away!
"Level Field seeks to promote U.S. jobs, R&D and infrastructure investment by offering clear comparisons of how various automakers contribute to the U.S. economy. Established by retirees and families of GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, and the suppliers and dealers that support them, the Level Field Institute also has the support of major manufacturers, suppliers, dealers, unions and others who care about these issues. Level Field welcomes foreign automaker investments and supports free trade."
The last sentence reads "Level Field welecomes forgien automaker investments and supprots free trade".
Not what I would call an organization soley ran by unions as some wish to portray. Also, Diamler is no longer American owned, hasn't been for years. More links on the way about tax breaks for Honda/Toyota/Nissan and even BMW plants located in the U.S. Internet is awesome for information.
Ever thought maybe the transplants don't do as much to contribute to the U.S. economy as you thought? So, maybe they aren't as significant as you thought?
Ever read a Hyundai Sonata ad? Ever read the really small writing at the bottom of the add that has the astrix? Last I read the Hyundai Sonat is 34% U.S. content. Granted, also read Hyundia is looking to source more parts for thier cars made here in the U.S. But, when? have they pursed this?
One answer for your not being able to buy a "streetfighter" then buy a good used one is one way to both save money and keep your money closer to home. But, at times even I have to cringe and open my wallet to something not made here. For me its all about buying as close to home as I possibly can. Another example: I needed T-shirts, different colored T-shirts. Simple item. At the big box stores they are made everywhere from Pakistan, Afghanistan, China, India. I found them on the internet made in the U.S.A. I spent about $1.75 more per shirt, (3 shirts). so about $5.00. Shipped to my house in about 5 days for free!