Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Nike is a design and marketing company, not a manufacturing company. Just read their 10Q and look at how much they spend on marketing. Last time I checked it was like 10% of revenue a huge amount. Granted that money is going to pay wages for lots of people in marketing. They work too.

    Plus like many designed/engineered products, materials and labor are only one of many costs.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    that money is going to pay wages for lots of people in marketing

    Outsourced to India and Pakistan, of course. ;)
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    that money is going to pay wages for lots of people in marketing

    Outsourced to India and Pakistan, of course. ;)

    I didn't say where;)

    They can't be all bad. Nike does have around 14k US based employees and they are routinely on the best to work for list.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Honestly, for me the biggest issue is trying to find something (anything really) that isn't made in China.

    I agree. Depending on what you're trying to buy it can be a challenge, particularly with electronics.

    Here is an ad from our local Menard's. I think it's a great promo. Quite a few US made items too.

    menards ad
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    "They work too."

    Marketing people work? Funny!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    The British lost their automotive industry, but they still have the one bike firm. Not much else in the entire industrial realm, what isn't now owned by Germany (who won?) is owned by bizarre second and third world "entrepreneurs".
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How ironic that Jaguar and Land Rover are owned by Tata, in a former colony...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    edited November 2011
    And the prides of the nation, RR and Bentley, are owned by the jerries, who also now build engines in Morgans and design home market Fords and Vauxhalls, and Rover sadly vanished into thin air.

    Some kind of karma there.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Well this one should get the discussion going:

    The stupidity of 'buy American'

    "Look beyond the immediate effects and beneficiaries. You may be accomplishing the opposite of what you intend. "

    Discuss.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I always liked Stossel but he's a little off here, in that for some things there are distinct advantages to buying locally, such as shorter supply chains. That doesn't absolve American car manufacturers, who buy parts in China and assemble them in Mexico, of course.

    If anyone has ever been to the AAPEX show in Las Vegas, you know the entire first floor is the People's Republic of Chinese Auto Parts. :shades: I like the Chinese but I don't want to have to get all my parts from there.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    His rant assumes that quality is equal and the trading "partners" are not massive criminals.

    Hoover Institute...that alone tells how the data will fall. Propaganda piece.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dunno, I always thought Stossel was a big whiner. This article is no different.

    Did you guys see the stories about all the counterfeit parts the US Military found? From China (where else?).
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    That is the argument I used when discussing how big box stores put Mom & Pop stores out of business...Mom & Pop have been raping us with list price for years, but they make a good photo to fight those evil big stores...my example was this:

    My former office used u-shaped bulbs that the local hardware store (Mom & Pop) charged $16.50 each...10 bulbs was $165.00...Home Depot, 35 miles away, sold the SAME BULB for $5.50 each...10 bulbs was $55.00...savings of $110.00...

    Now, should I spend my money at Mom & Pop and being overcharged out the wazoo, or do the smart thing and have $110.00 left over to take my wife out 3 times for dinner, thereby supporting the local restaurants and the servers who depend on my tips to pay their rent???

    I said to hell with Mom & Pop and drove the 35 miles to Home Depot, and even with the gas cost I came out far ahead...

    Please don't hand me this crap that Mom & Pop don't buy in the quantity that Home Depot does...I DON'T CARE...why should I pay 3 times the cost just to support two old people who have been overcharging me for years???...what this really proves is that Home Depot made money at $5.50 per bulb, and any intelligent American would want to save the money, too...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mom and pops can compete with personalized service and (one would hope) closer, neighborhood locations.

    I'll pay a little more, but that place was gouging you.

    Around me the Home Depots seem to be *way* understaffed, FWIW.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >me the Home Depots seem to be *way* understaffed,

    Same here. In my local Home Depot, most employees seemed to be ones from Lowes who had been dismissed.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pretty soon they'll outsource the associates, too. We'll see an LCD screen in every aisle so you can video chat with some guy in Mumbai. :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    I was pleasantly surprised with the one in Port Huron last trip south while getting parts to fix a light fixture for our friend there. Smart help, and went way out of their way to help me with a $6 part.

    And, unlike the Mom & Pops of old, the big box stores will take returns.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    edited November 2011
    The Home Depot installed a do-it-yourself checkout with a clerk at the register crosswise at the end. I refused to use the automated ones for years. I would check out at the contractor desk or the returns register if they weren't busy.

    The girl at the end register would take the items and carry them to the do-it-youself and check them out for me instead of ringing them on her own register. That really was irritating. Home Depot missed the opportunity for friendly interaction with a clerk ringing out your merchandise. They should have used a mixture of self and manned registers for check out. Go to Lowes nearby and they have a smile and a comment or two as you check out.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, but how soon before Lowe's follows suit?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Menards has both self-check and people. Sometimes self-check is faster.

    The real question is where are the self-check machines made? Flint? :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >how soon before Lowe's follows suit?

    I don't think they will. The workers at Lowes were really skimpy in number for a while but the last year and more ours has been well-manned (and well-womaned). It had gotten dirty to lack of caring by the employees and managers. The workers would spend time chillin' with their bro's who had come in the store instead of asking other customers if they could help them. I spent some time writing online comments about my experiences starting a few years back as the store went down. The managers would call to follow up on the complaint. I sometimes told the manager on the way out the door. Things got fixed. The managers knew they had problems and appreciated the documention from an unbiased customer. The workers couldn't complain they were being unfairly treated.

    Today the store is clean, aisles are relatively uncluttered, and I can't go in just to browse and kill time without being asked if they can help me find what I need.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2011
    The real question is where are the self-check machines made? Flint?

    Maybe they are counterfeit and just send our money directly to China, cut out the middle man.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    He's usually right on. But of course, he likes to rile people up.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    He's a bit loosey-goosey at times; if he'd gotten a journalism degree, he may have been a better fact checker. Kind of surprising he makes those errors since even though he was a psych major, his first job was as a researcher. Maybe he's cherry-picking "facts"? (link)
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    What impressed me more about the boots was that when I got them in, There was a tag on the boot saying that the leather came from wisconsin as well,
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Not all people left here solely because of cheap labor. My friend works at A.T. Cross, makers (or should I say importers???) of Fine writing instruments. They moved manufacturing to China because they were getting their behinds handed to them by companies making cheaper knock-offs of similar quality pens. It was a matter of survival. A company that once had 1100 employees is now down to 70. They still "make" pens here for the President to sign bills into law, but those pens are "made" in China and assembled here so they can say that they are "made" here

    But for a company like Nike, it's all about padding the wallets of the execs and the athletes that they sponsor.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Golden parachutes:

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/story/2011-11-07/100-million-- dollar-chairmen/51116304/1

    This is where the money goes.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....My former office used u-shaped bulbs that the local hardware store (Mom & Pop) charged $16.50 each...10 bulbs was $165.00...Home Depot, 35 miles away, sold the SAME BULB for $5.50 each...10 bulbs was $55.00...savings of $110.00..."

    Nevertheless, that is no excuse to just mindlessly go to the big box stores. You can do a little homework (shopping).

    The pharmacy I used to work for bought all it's OTC meds from a supply house, and their prices were always favorable with CVS.

    We have a few local appliance stores that are part of a national network (meaning they collectively have the buying power of a big box store) yet are all independantly owned and operated. Their prices are in line with the big boxes, and unlike the big boxes, they offer free delivery and removal of the old appliance.

    Most Ace or True Value hardware stores are franchisees, and are locally owned. Desipte this, I went to a Mom and Pop Paint store and got a Gallon of Benjamin Moore paint $5 cheaper than the local Ace wanted. You can't get BM paint at Lowes or Home Depot.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    This is where the money goes.

    IBM earned over 20 Billion last year, not to mention a market cap of over 200 billion. The 170 million payout is a small percentage. Plus over 1/3 of it is deferred compensation meaning it was salary already earned in years past but not paid out.

    The average small business owner/manager pockets a larger percentage of company revenue/profits than a CEO of a huge multinational corporation.

    The only practical way to limit CEO pay may be to limit the size of the corporation.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    While my local Ace is convenient, it is more expensive than most big box stores.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I will add there are many CEO pay packages that at minimum seem excessive.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "......The average small business owner/manager pockets a larger percentage of company revenue/profits than a CEO of a huge multinational corporation."

    Yes, but the SBO will pay income tax on the pay, whereas a good portion of the CEO's compensation is in the form of a stock option, not money. If they wait a yr to exercise it they pay capital gains and not income tax. So the gov't loses the revenue.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited November 2011
    es, but the SBO will pay income tax on the pay, whereas a good portion of the CEO's compensation is in the form of a stock option, not money. If they wait a yr to exercise it they pay capital gains and not income tax. So the gov't loses the revenue.

    Not necessarily. A business owner has many options regarding how they choose to compensate themselves They can pay themselves a small salary with large quarterly dividends (if they are incorporated).

    Regarding stock options it depends on the type. Non Qualified stock options are taxed as ordinary income regardless of when they are exercised.

    Not to mention if the stock options actually have value, the CEO likely performed well by increasing shareholder value. Holding onto shares of exercised stock options over a year just to get capital gains status is often a risky bet.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Yes, but the SBO will pay income tax on the pay, whereas a good portion of the CEO's compensation is in the form of a stock option, not money. If they wait a yr to exercise it they pay capital gains and not income tax. So the gov't loses the revenue.

    Except that
    - the stock option is not the same as a salary. Options are not guaranteed income, as the stock price must rise
    - the government is not "losing" revenue since it's not an actual salary

    Now I agree that executive compensation is way out of hand. The recent Supreme Court decision United vs. FEC which allows unlimited corporate contributions is a further disaster.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My local big box store is located in a pretty bad neighborhood, so I go to a local hardware store that's been around for about 60 years for my supplies.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Plus, the stock options forces short-term thinking. If they can increase profits by laying off thousands of Americans and moving those jobs to China instead, that CEO makes a killing. He'll retire and take a golden parachute in short time, so who cares about the long run?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    You've pretty much summed up American corporate thought of the past generation or so.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "Nevertheless, that is no excuse to just mindlessly go to the big box stores. You can do a little homework (shopping)."

    I must disagree...this was a small Georgia town, 3500 people in the city, 15,000 folks in the county...one hardware store, that was it, and the smallest WalMart you have ever seen, which did not have the bulbs...35 miles away was the closest...

    Now I live in a larger town, with an independent ACE hardware, where I usually go before I go to HD or Lowes...oddly enough, when I bought paint, the local Ace was where I bought Benjamin Moore paint...
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Most Ace or True Value hardware stores are franchisees, and are locally owned.

    Actually Ace and True Value are cooperatives. The member/owners get a rebate back at the end of the year if the cooperative declares one.
    But the coop adds a layer of overhead to the members so there is a cost there.

    The do get favorable pricing on what they buy but they don't don't get the same type of deals that the big boxes get unless they want to buy like the big boxes.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....Actually Ace and True Value are cooperatives. The member/owners get a rebate back at the end of the year if the cooperative declares one.
    But the coop adds a layer of overhead to the members so there is a cost there."

    Fair enough. It's just that I find thinking about it as opposed to just going to a HD or Lowes may save you at least time.

    Here in RI where it is far more densely populated than Georgia, I could shop at a dozen HD's WM's and Lowes w/in 35 miles. There are Mom & Pop's that can overprice things, but we also have stores like Benny's or Ocean State Job Lot that are large enough to compete with the Big Boxes, but are locally owned.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "General Motors sees new hope in its rising results in California. GM’s California market share through September was 12.2 percent compared with its national average of 19.8 percent, with sales in the state up by 1.5 percent for the year to date compared with a 0.8 percent increase for the nation as a whole over 2010, according to Polk data. And like Ford, GM has been predicating its turnaround there largely on small cars – in this case, great acceptance for its new Chevrolet Cruze compact, which is widely considered a vast improvement over the Cobalt subcompact that it replaced. “With the launch of the Cruze, we’ve gone from zero to hero in California pretty quickly,” said Alan Batey, vice president of the Chevrolet division."

    Are Big Three Just California Dreaming? (AutoObserver)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited November 2011
    Didn't they just cut Cruze production, though? They shouldn't over-estimate the success of the Cruze.

    Of course they were very optimistic and planned on 3 shifts, with the plant running 24 hours a day, so maybe they were just a little too optimistic.

    Edit: to add link, they have a 70 day supply:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/11/chevrolets-lordstown-plant-taking-week-off-to- -control-cruze-inv/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    The top four boomer cars are US made.

    The Cars Boomers Are Buying (secondact.com)

    I got the US made details from Cars.com. The Ford and Chevy made the 75% cut last year, but not in 2011.

    Now we can get back to arguing what a US made car is. :D
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Good link. That is interesting and not really surprising.

    It's not unusual for the boomers that live around me to have a truck/suv from the D3 and a car from... well anyone other than the D3 unless it's company car.

    Neither my parents or my in-laws drive domestic cars anymore. I think my dad would buy another domestic in the future, but my in-laws likely will never leave Toyota.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    As an aging boomer, I was expecting more representation by Buick.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I don't doubt most Buick owners are boomers, but out of the millions of cars sold per year, Buick has a fairly small market share with only two models that sell in decent volume.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    All that tells me is that it appears that, when buying a passenger vehicle, many folks are still impressed with the imports, with Honda and Toyota at the top...seems to me that the Big 3 and the UAW still have a long way to go to convince us of the quality of their products...

    And, since I would bet that many of those Accords and Camrys are made here by US workers, who is providing employment ofr Americans...Fords made in Mexico or Accords made in Ohio or Camrys made in Kentucky???

    Since any of Big 3 cars are made outside the US, and many imports are now made HERE, the product that employs the Americans and gives the Americans jobs is the most "American" car to me...yeah, maybe the car WAS designed in Korea or Japan by their engineers, but since it is the unskilled assembly portion that employs us, they are bringing those jobs here, and it is those jobs that allow the unskilled to have a job and earn an income over minimum wage, so who is doing more for us, GM or Honda???
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    For the past few I've been trying for domestic content. I missed on my wife's Camry but I was buying used so it wasn't a case where I could ask them to bring me around another one.

    My Solara convertible was built in Kentucky with mostly American parts.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    This should make it easier: find a car made by Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler but still built in the USA. There are a few. The Sonic is built in the US, so is the Focus. There are probably several others.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    edited November 2011
    Chevy:
    Covette - Bowling Green, IN
    Volt - Detroit/Hamtramck, MI
    Malibu - Fairfax, KS
    Traverse - Delta Township, MI
    Cruze - Lordstown, OH
    Sonic - Lake Orion, MI

    Ford
    Mustang - Flat Rock, MI
    Taurus - Chicago, IL
    Escape - Kansas City, MO - shifting to Louisville, KY with new model for US and export
    Focus - Wayne, MI
    C Max - Wayne, MI

    Chrysler
    Sterling Heights, MI - Dodge Avenger/Chrylser 200
    Detroit, MI - Dodge Viper

    Keep in mind that these plants are supported by engine, transmission and stamping plants in other areas.

    Basically, GM makes msot of it's volume cars (no trucks here - CUV's don't count) here in America. It would be nice if Ford would shift Fusion production to America. Chrysler - well they make 2 cars here but I wouldn't call them volume units.
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