Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

stever

Perhaps you would be good enough to let us know what foreign automakers are members of Level Field?

(Besides Chrysler I mean. ).

cooterbfd

Oh I do agree. I read the whole thing. Hundee LOVES to promote made in USA but they don't mention the meager US parts content.

It's just that before people go dismissing the site as union drivel, it's good to point out that they aren't totally dismissive of the transplants. They just reported the facts.

IIRC, Honda on average had the most US sourced parts content for their cars (at around 60%) than any other company outside the D3. If they were truely just spewing drivel, than they would have just skewed the facts somehow, but they didn't. Because of that, I would say that it is a good article to read.

roadburner

Fair enough. I have actually tried to buy American made products(or at least products from American companies) for my home theater. I was able to find excellent speakers(Klipsch, Hsu Research), cables/interconnects(Blue Jeans Cable), and surge suppressors(Tripp Lite) . Just about everything else had to be sourced from overseas manufacturers.

cooterbfd

Roadburner, check this out;

http://www.madeinusa.org/

A search engine for all types of products made in the USA.

Going camping??? Campfire grills: http://www.onegrill.com/category_s/1.htm

Camping gear: http://www.equinoxltd.com/

Canoes!!!!

http://www.jammerboats.com/

Not saying anything is cheap, but if you look, you CAN find it.

Even if you go to a big box store, look at the labels. We went to Bed Bath & Beyond looking at dinnerware. We were looking at drinking glasses, and lo and behold!!! One set was made in the USA!!!!

Yes those glasses came home with us.

berri

made everywhere from Pakistan, Afghanistan, China, India

I'd take India and China over Pakistan and Afghanistan - those two countries want to destroy America and support attacks on us. We were on vacation and my wife found a very nice piece of jewelry, but it was made in Pakistan. I don't usually get involved, but when I spotted the made in Pakistan we both dropped it immediately and got something else. If its good enough for Bin Laden, its not good enough for me!

fezo

I did notice the same things on the site. Honda gives Chrysler a pretty good run for its money in terms of positive benefit to the the US economy.

cooterbfd

I think you can read it with a small grain of salt, but the facts are what they are.

Looking at one of the charts, it appears that Toyota employs more people than Honda, Hyundai and VW combined.

But if you look at the domestic content chart, only Honda comes in at over 50%, and that's great for us!!!

Some of the naysayers will tout the Camry's 80% domestic parts content. While that is great in of itself, the overall 35% rating is due to the fact that the Lexus line as well as the Prius and Yaris are made in Japan. Another chart shows that the D3 makes 67% of their vehicles here, whereas foreign competition is at 43%.

fezo

It would be really nice if they had charts to break it down by model. I imagine they don't if for no other reason that the Camry probably would top the list for family sedans and while the group is supportive of vehicles being made here they still want to favor the US branded, UAW plants.

There must be a way for Chevy to get the Malibu up to higher American content than the Camry. There are bragging rights to be had.

cooterbfd

While it is true that the specific model breakdown would be helpful (as it still proves their point about "American built" cars and the "American suppliers"), the simple, general premise is that the D3 still builds more vehicles here than the transplants and spends more of their budget for engineering, suppliers, and manufacturing here than do the transplants.

marsha7

" Once Americans really realize that importing all of our goods and services does nothing for their financial/economic future"...we have always imported stuff here, but we do import more now than ever before...I agree that we should look harder for US made stuff, but cars become a special category, much different than a hammer or a saw...quality, or perceived quality, is what we think about very much when buying a car, as something that we expect to run when we go out to start it, and not break down when we drive it, and not bury us underground when we maintain it, and something we want to ENJOY it when we use it...many time the D3 simply do not offer a product that does that (why ELSE have folks bought Toys and Hondas by the millions?) so we seek an alternative provider...

Nowhere do you ask the D3 to make a product as ergonomically designed as Hondas (at least mine were), or as quiet running (like my Hondas) or as well made...no question, D3 products are much better today, and they owe it all to the Japanese, who shamed them into making better cars...but that improvement in quality has not caused all the "defectors" to come back because, whether you see this or not, they simply do not trust to D3, possiblt after being burned many times over the years...just because something rates high today does not make a satisfied Honda owner dump Honda for a Chevy...Chevy has to EARN the business back, because once burned, twice shy...maybe YOUR faith in them has been restored, but you need to convince millions of others who may require more than just the phrase "buy American" when their Honda is made in Ohio and their Toy is made in Kentucky...

fezo: D3 employ 3 times as many because the D3 are inefficient...there was a comparison between a Honda plant and GM plant a few years ago, plants with the same manufacturing capacity, and Honda needed 2000 employees to make the same number of cars as GM needed 6000...that does NOT prove GM employs more, it simply proves union featherbedding and severe, SEVERE, inefficient manufacturing techniques...

cooter: silly as this sounds, wouldn't you EXPECT carmakers based here for 75-plus years to make more cars than the transplants???...I see it just the opposite, that it is a miracle to me that the transplants make as many cars here as they do, and provide those American jobs along with it...

bpizzuti

That shame is what has brought us the new Escape, Focus, Sonic, Malibu, and Cruze. Constructed in the USA.

Wish Ford would move Fusion construction here too.

marsha7

Yes, and I, for one, do not believe for one minute that those better cars would have come about if the Japanese had not come here with their obviously superior products in the 80s and 90s...anyone who thinks that the D3 and UAW would have made better cars on their own is, IMO, insane...they were traveling rapidly down the track of pure junk, getting worse every year, until the Japanese literally shamed them into making better cars, because Honda and Toy showed what a good car can be...

A friend of mine, who was in management at Cadillac back in the mid-90s told me about the first time they saw a Lexus LS400...they looked it over, looked at its tolerances and quality, and he told me his first words were "Boys, if this is what they are making, we are in trouble"...they KNEW what they made was junk, and any fool with eyesight better than Ray Charles could see that the Lexus was light-years ahead of Cadillac's best, in terms of quality, performance, and resale value...

ateixeira

Another issue we should be aware of is that a lot of times people will say "American" but they mean North American, and include Mexico and Canada in those numbers, as opposed to USA only.

So read with skepticism - unless it says US-made specifically, they are often including Mexican and Canadian parts.

I'd wager that 67% claim the D3 are making includes Mexican production, Canadian too.

ateixeira

The new XTS looks great, has a modern powertrain, and a neat 12.3" LCD screen in the dash.

No doubt competitive pressue has made Cadillac better.

fintail

Without competitive pressure, GM would probably still be making the "low durability" 4100.

cooterbfd

"......silly as this sounds, wouldn't you EXPECT carmakers based here for 75-plus years to make more cars than the transplants???..."

Absolutely, I do. But why do you think that it's a miracle that the transplants do?? That is just plain good business sense. All those people that would be on the fence as to whether or not buy that Camcord, can do so with confidence knowing that they ARE supporting American jobs. I wouldn't buy one (opting for a D3 American made car), but you can't argue that fact.

But it IS disingenuous to go by a Honda dealer and see all those "Made in USA" banners flying over the Fit's. I can't argue with Honda for importing them (you never know, gas could drop to $2/gal and hardly anybody would buy one). But it IS a feather in GM's cap for building a car in that segment here. If gas prices stay up, I would assume that (and think it would make complete business sense) the transplants would start making their Fit's, Yaris' and Versa's here too.

berri

I, for one, do not believe for one minute that those better cars would have come about if the Japanese had not come here

I totally agree with that analysis. There is a tendency in most American managers and industries to just keep cutting costs and cheapening things to fatten the bottom line and their executive bonuses. Unfortunately, all too often it takes foreign competitors or large litigations to change things.

D3 employ 3 times as many because the D3 are inefficient

I'm a bit leery here. I suspect some of the transplants are indeed more efficient without UAW work rules. But I'm not sure those labor figures are strictly variable labor. D3 plants likely have more fixed overhead personnel functions at their plants than transplants because some of that effort is done in Asia instead. That would increase the head counts and percentage somewhat for D3 plants.

stever

I think the VW Bug started the trend before the Japanese cars arrived in large numbers. I drove a Bug north in '73 - no way would I have trusted a Cutlass Supreme to make it without issue. Next trip north in '80 was in a Datsun (fortunately my head wasn't turned by Rabbits).

cannon3

I believe the message of buying "American" is making it into the minds of more Americans. In another board a person decided they wanted a Hyundai Elantra. They preferred this vehicle over all others in this class. They researched and found out they are at least assembled here in the U.S. He searched several dealerships until he found one assembled in the USA in the model/color/trim he wanted. Yes, profits will go to S. Korea, parts majority from S. Korea. But at least he spent the time/effort to find one made here in the U.S. I had to at least give kudos for that.

coontie66

And the profits went back to Korea.

berri

And the profits went back to Korea

Honestly, its not that simple. Theoretically they went to the stockholders who are likely global, but the majority are probably Korean. In reality, the cash flow derived from those profits go to many places. Some may be stockholder dividends. Some pays off debt (which probably has global originations), some goes to capital investments which are made in many of their facilities around the world, same goes for advertising, dealer support payments and tax payments.

The comment about parts content in another matter. A significant chunk of costs making vehicles goes to vendors. The fact that the car was primarily Koren vendors means Koreans made out. However, take a car like the Toyota Camry that has majority US domestic content - in that case the bulk of the benefits stayed here.

lemko

This is just part of the massive Budd complex on Hunting Park Avenue. It's now a gigantic pigeon loft.

fintail

But things are better now with globalization and infinite offshoring, no really!

lemko

They never looked better!

fintail

Affordable housing for working families! Just needs a little elbow grease, think of all the sweat equity there.

And if you park your car overnight, someone will move it to a more secure location for free!

imidazol97

I'm sure the same politicians pushing loans to people with no hope of repaying can get some money to help more people buy here.

marsha7

has some responsibility in trying to deal with the loss of Budd...I would bet they just sat on their duffs and lamented the loss, but maybe they could have tried to bring in other businesses...didn't Pittsburgh do that back in the 80s or 90s, as steelmaking moved out???

Whether Budd moved to China or moved to Atlanta, the effect on Philly would have been the same...

Like it or not, change has been in the air for years, and either they adapt or they don't...Philly, like many, became complacent with all that industry...until it was gone...

coontie66

And after buying Bud for over 45 years I changed to another AMERICAN BRAND. Heck with them.

anythngbutgm

Isn't Crudweiser owned by the Belgians now?

dieselone

Maybe that pic was taken this past Friday and all of the inhabitance were at the nearest Walmart pepper spraying each other over their favorite Chinese assembled gadget:(

ateixeira

Ambev owns Anheiser-Busch, so yes.

Molsen owns Coors.

South African Brewers owns Miller.

So if you drink any of those "Domestic" beers all the profits go abroad. Of course that doesn't stop them from all the red, white and blue marketing on July 4th. :sick:

The 2 biggest breweries left that are American are Sam Adams and Yuengling, and the latter was founded by a German immigrant.

mcdawgg

No, this is not Budweiser beer, it is Budd Mfg. Company, that produced railcars, etc.

robr2

Actually Budd is still around - you just have to look.

Budd was bought out by Thysson, became Thysson Budd and moved to Troy, MI to focus on their automotive business. They then sold their rail division to Bombardier of Quebec. Bombardier has rail car production all over the US and is based in Horsham, PA which is near Philly isn't it??

ateixeira

One irony is that when a business is sold to foreign owners, that actually reduces the deficit.

lemko

Must be a much smaller operation than the TWO HUGE Budd factories that were once in Philly. This is the first time I heard of Bombardier. There was a bigger, more modern plant in the Northeast section of Philly whose site is now occupied by a golf course for corporate criminals and the older plant in the Nicetown section of North Philly which is now empty. Nicetown is now an ironic name for that neighborhood for it is anything but nice. It was once nice when there were plenty of manufacturing jobs at Budd and other nearby factories.

robr2

Bombardier is one of the worlds largest rail and aerospace manufacturers. They make regional and corporate jets. US Corporate is in Horsham and manufacturing is in Pittsburgh. They may be smaller in Philly but they are huge nationwide.

They also once owned Bombardier Recreational Products makers of snowmobiles, watercrat, atv's and motorcycles.

dieselone

Yeah, I remember Bombardier from when they acquired Johnson/Evinrude marine engines from the OMC bankruptcy in 2000 or so.

cooterbfd

".....The 2 biggest breweries left that are American are Sam Adams and Yuengling, and the latter was founded by a German immigrant. "

Good ole' Sammy beer!!! Definitely a bright spot in America. Notice how all the Chinese restaurants sell Yuenling???

fezo

Sam Adams and Yuengling are both fine beers. I'm glad that at least the ones we still own are good ones.

Of course Augie Busch the whatever (4th?, 5th?) manged to ruin all the work that his predecessors did. Unusual for one generation to blow the whole deal but he managed to do it.

Not that their beer was worth drinking.

andre1969

Sam Adams and Yuengling are both fine beers. I'm glad that at least the ones we still own are good ones.

Yuengling is what Lemko and I fill up the coolers with when car show season comes around.

fezo

I knew I had to get going on one or more of your car trips!

I don't know how long it will be before they spring me after the transplant but maybe in time for later in the year shows.... Gotta do that.

ateixeira

Car related, too. The guy (Shahid Khan) owns a US-based auto supplier, Flex-N-Gate.

So watch the Jags play on Sunday and kick back with a Budweiser Coors Miller Sam Adams.

andre1969

I don't know how long it will be before they spring me after the transplant but maybe in time for later in the year shows.... Gotta do that.

Cool...let's keep in touch about that! One show that we always go to, that's might not be *too* far from you, is in Macungie PA the first weekend in August. We met up with ccotenj there once, back in 2006. Whatever became of him, anyway?

fezo

Good question. I should send him an E-mail and see if he's fallen off the face of the earth.

roadburner

He posts in the AVS Forum(Home Theater/Audiophile) boards every so often.

lemko

U.S. Household Wealth Takes Biggest Hit Since 2008

How's that 'global economy" workin' out for ya?

fintail

For a few, very very well, thank you very very much :shades: :sick: :lemon:

andre1969

Heck, I got whacked by more than the 4% that article is claiming. In my case it was more like 11-12%! :sick:

ateixeira

Corporations held a record $2.1 trillion in cash at the end of September

Shipping jobs overseas has paid off handsomely, for a select few.

ateixeira

Yeah, I think we lost a good 15% or so, on paper at least.

We were never in over our heads to begin with, though, so I'm OK.