Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

gagrice

I guess this was a freak snow for SW Indiana. Neighbor kids came running over when my son came home and wanted the Alaskans to show them how to make a snowman. That much snow is rare in So Indiana. My Daughter in law laughed when they called it a blizzard.

stever

We decided to leave town a day early and managed to miss the Indiana mess. Spent the night in Mt. Vernon. Guess we stirred up the tornados again just like we did last year, but they hit Alabama this time instead of Chattanooga.

My poor nephew is crying that his Avalanche now has 300,000 miles and he's afraid he won't be able to get a new one next year when he'll have enough saved up to be able to afford another one.

gagrice

That is a lot of miles on a vehicle. I don't think I have ever owned a vehicle with 150k miles on it.

oldbearcat

I enjoy my German clocks as well. I've got a Cuckoo clock, a 1950's vintage Kunde anniversary clock, a old post war Linden travel alarm clock, and a Keinzle alarm clock. My favorite is the Keinzle - It's made of steel, brass, and tin. It looks like a little carriage clock with glass sides and plays a Bach Hymm when it alarms - from a music box made into its base. It dates from around 1900.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

tlong

That is a lot of miles on a vehicle. I don't think I have ever owned a vehicle with 150k miles on it.

I had 235K on a 1966 beetle, and 225K on a 94 Mercury Villager.
My Jetta was at 143 when I sold it, and I currently have 130K on my Acura TL.

The only car I ever got rid of short of 100K was my 98 Audi A4, at 88K miles. I really miss that car, but it was getting expensive when things broke.

uplanderguy

129.6K on a '97 Cavalier...no problems but bought a new Cavalier under "GM Pricing for All".

112K on that replacement Cavalier. Traded because it needed a $400 instrument cluster only because it would not pass e-check in our primarily non-urban county, not because the check engine light was on, but that it did NOT come on when the car was started. It looked like new despite the fact that it sat out ALL the time in salty NE OH. It was six years old.

Both these cars go against the conventional wisdom here, I'm fully aware.

Both cars were built forty miles down the road, where people both from my original hometown and current hometown are employed.

gagrice

Both cars were built forty miles down the road, where people both from my original hometown and current hometown are employed.

You bring up a good point. I may be more inclined to support a company nearby me than 1000s of miles away. There are no cars built within a 1000 miles of me. I don't have any family or close friends that are affected by the auto industry. I do have a couple friends that sell cars. So buying a Nissan or Toyota comes the closest to helping a friend out. The one friend sold Buicks until the bankruptcy closed his dealership and he now sells Nissan. I don't think most Californians have any ties to the Domestic nameplates.

PS
I don't know of any dealership that does not sell foreign with domestic. Local Chevy dealer sells, Lexus and Subaru. Safer that way.

uplanderguy

It's not the only reason I buy a particular car, but I do like the idea.

I would concede that to busiris on the GM board, because he buys vehicles he likes that are built near where he lives. No bad in any of that.

busiris

What? ... Didn't they want an igloo, too?!?

fintail

Heck, in the smallish town where my mother lives, the Chevy and Toyota dealer is not just the same group, but on the same property. Odd competition there. I am kind of surprised it is allowed.

robr2

Heck, in the smallish town where my mother lives, the Chevy and Toyota dealer is not just the same group, but on the same property. Odd competition there. I am kind of surprised it is allowed.

But separate buildings I presume?

fintail

Literally within the past 2 years - after sharing a building for at least 25 years. And now the buildings are just adjacent - I think the entrance into the lot is what divides them.

gagrice

I did buy a Sequoia made in Princeton Indiana. Close to where my kids live. Not sure it benefited them in any way. I think the residual benefit many believe in is over rated. I see the higher wages of the UAW workers raising the cost of living for all those making less. Until it implodes like Detroit. Industrialization is good while on the rise. What goes up, must come down.

uplanderguy

It may not have benefitted your kids, but it benefitted their community most likely, and that's a good thing. Some say 'meh', but I think that's about the same thing as saying your one vote is 'meh'.

ateixeira

Interesting, these are Swiss origin of course but the box says Stratham, NH.

That's the way to do it, you get the best chocolate but then manufacture near where it's consumed.

gagrice

My Favorite Ford dealer, Drew, is also the VW and Hyundai dealer. One of the largest if not the largest Ford dealers in So CA. Share a lot of facilities on a large property.

Just looked them up and they no longer sell VW. Sold that to another dealer closer to where I live. It is the same people I bought my Nissan from. Took over the old Toyota property. Now if we could get a MB dealer close by that would be dandy. Dealerships change hands like I change shoes.

gagrice

The Swiss only wish they made the best Chocolate. None better than Sees.

fintail

Lindt has operations everywhere, the product line you buy, and where you buy it, will determine where it was made - kind of like with many foreign car nameplates. I think US market Lindor balls and many of the bar styles of Lindt are American made now. But, you can also buy Lindt product in the US made in Germany, Austria, France, and Switzerland.

On my trip last month, I made a point to visit the Lindt "Chocolate Museum" in Cologne, and the main facility in Kilchberg (which I had visited before - great deals on factory seconds), as I like the brand.

fintail

There are many conglomerates or inherited empires here, but nothing that shares so much like that small town Chevy/Toyota setup. Ford and Hyundai being actual neighbors could be a little iffy, as they might compete directly along some product lines.

In my area, the MB dealer is across the street from the Porsche dealer, same owner, but they don't really compete anyway. No other competition is adjacent with the same owner.

robr2

Lindt has operations everywhere, the product line you buy, and where you buy it, will determine where it was made - kind of like with many foreign car nameplates. I think US market Lindor balls and many of the bar styles of Lindt are American made now. But, you can also buy Lindt product in the US made in Germany, Austria, France, and Switzerland.

Lindt manufactures in Stratham, NH. They have over 350 employees and manufacture all US sold products with full control of ingredients. In 2010, they added a cocoa bean roasting facility that eliminated the need to have the beans roasted in Switzerland.

Lindt also owns Ghirardelli which is based manufacturers in San Leandro, CA but that is only sold in North America.

busiris

On my trip last month, I made a point to visit the Lindt "Chocolate Museum" in Cologne

Oh, that is one sweet place to visit!

I was there 3-4 years ago. It's a choco-holic's paradise!

bpizzuti

up in Kingston (NY) we've got a Toyota and Hyundai dealer that share the same lot. Different buildings, but same group, same lot, you can walk back and forth, no fence, nada.

Further south we have a full-fledged Mopar dealer that also houses Kia in the same lot (different building) and Mitsubishi (same lot, NO building, lol!).

We have the DCH and Healy groups here. Healey's big for a local group: Chevy/Buick, Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM, Ford/Lincoln, Hyundai, Kia, Mitsubishi

DCH is a frigging nationwide monster: Acura (Multiple), Audi (Multiple), BMW (Multiple), Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, Honda (Multiple), Kia, Lexus (Multiple), Nissan, Scion (Multiple), Toyota (Multiple). Near me we have one of the Acura dealers, and one of their Toyota dealers.

Most of the other places in my immediate area are standalone shops: Poughkeepsie Mazda, Mid Hudson Subaru, Poughkeepsie Nissan. I tend to prefer dealing with them, my experiences with the Healey and DCH stores have NOT been positive. Any of them.

fintail

Wiki or whatever might not be accurate. The box of Lindt "Petits Desserts" I received at Christmas, made in France, would beg to differ about "all US sold products" :shades:

Ghirardelli is interesting. It would be terribly difficult to market premium American chocolate in Europe, given the amount of good domestic choices.

fintail

It was something, crowded with kids (I think made me sick) and touristy, but fun, and the shop is something. Another one off the bucket list.

There are some amazing chocolate shops in Zurich too, and the Lindt HQ is about a 15 minute train ride away. No real touristy stuff there, but the shop is worth the trip.

ateixeira

All things being relative, they're premium when compared to Hershey's.

Gary - will have to try Sees, if I haven't already and just don't recall.

fintail

Mitsu has no building? That's funny, and kind of sad.

The only national group that operates in eastern suburban Seattle that I know of is AutoNation. There's also O'Brien, which I think is WA and OR, and the Barrier premium brand group, Seattle only. Most of the rest are fairly independent, I think. The little auto row not far from where I live has Caddy, Chevy (I think the same owner there), Volvo, and Chrysler, with Ford across the street. Others are randomly scattered around.

ateixeira

They're fading fast, Kia seems to be taking over the Mitsu dealers that are closing around here. More than one.

andres3

129.6K on a '97 Cavalier...no problems but bought a new Cavalier under "GM Pricing for All".

112K on that replacement Cavalier

To be fair to you, if my '95 Neon Sport was as good to me as your Cavalier's were to you, I'd probably be a Dodge fan.

Heck, I'd probably have a Dodge Dart or used Viper in my driveway by now.

Maybe one of the last most recent model Neon SRT's (nah, insurance I suspect would probably be too high on those).

That is a BIG what IF scenario.

I don't use magazine writer's opinions to make car buying decisions, however, I do use them to see if the Big 3 are up to the SAME OLD same old. When I read about how great the ATS is, I think, my, things may have changed at GM, when I hear about the creaking loud annoying steering wheel, I think my, how things haven't changed a bit.

andres3

But it was the Mexico part of North America for their new factory going up.

I must admit, I'm very leery of Mexican car quality, as a lot of those VW's from Mexico have given VW the reputation they deserve regarding reliability.

I'd rather stick to Germany or Hungarian built Audi's.

I'm at 95K and change miles on the '06 A3. Knock on wood, if it reaches 100K without any more issues I think Audi will have earned my next car purchase (provided they make something I can approve of).

I'm not sure the lack of a 5-door option on the next '13 A3 is to my liking. It's my understanding Audi considered the US for a plant, but Mexico won out.

bpizzuti

That's what happened here too. Mitsubishi was originally in that Kia building, but when Kia pulled out of "Mid Hudson" because they didn't want to share space with Subaru, they ended up squeezing out Mitsu instead. And they don't seem to mind sharing a lot with Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep either, which kind of tells you something...

Then again, the way Mitsu is going, they're easy to squeeze out. Subaru, not so much, especially in the Northeast.

ateixeira

Subaru will continue to grow, the new Forester is a lot more fuel efficient and look what happened to Impreza sales when they did that.

They have capacity issues at Gunma so I'd like to see them kick Toyota out of the SIA plant in Indiana and build Foresters there, since the US is the #1 market for those.

bpizzuti

SIA's still got excess capacity, plus they may just expand the factory.

I don't see Subaru growing beyond a certain point, not unless the become another GM or Toyota. And their current core customers (an unusual hybrid of performance fanatics and eco-warriors) would probably turn their back on them.

robr2

Wiki or whatever might not be accurate. The box of Lindt "Petits Desserts" I received at Christmas, made in France, would beg to differ about "all US sold products"

It was from their own press release so I would presume it's fairly accurate. It's possible they supplement US made product with imports during busy seasons.

fintail

Maybe they are trying to appeal to the "buy American" consumer and bending the truth - corporations are known to do that. Funny, their website even lists European made products for order. But, their big seller, Lindor, is made in the US for US consumption. And unlike some products (Nutella, most cars), the US formula doesn't seem different.

fintail

Oh yeah, local VW and Subaru dealer are on the same land, buildings nearly touching (same owner of course). I'd think they would go after the same pseudo-offbeat customer, but apparently each has enough die-hards to where it isn't a problem.

robr2

The only national group that operates in eastern suburban Seattle that I know of is AutoNation.

You never know. Group 1 Automotive buys out dealerships and leaves the local name in place. They own over 100 dealerships and not one uses the corporate name. People like to deal with local dealers. They don't have dealers in your area but some of the local ones may be owned by a big corporation.

Kind of like the funeral industry. You may see JS Waterman on the door but in reality they are owned by Service Corp - a huge funeral conglomerate.

fintail

I guess one might research ownership if they care about that, then. Shouldn't be a worry, big corporations tend to be ethical and honest :shades:

gagrice

Researching Lindt chocolate here in San Diego, they are sold in drug stores like CVS. They also use High Fructose Corn Syrup in a lot of their candy. That is a deal breaker for me. Same goes for the way over priced Godiva chocolates. They also use HFCS and preservatives in their chocolates. You ever give Sees a taste you won't go back to cheap imitations.

tlong

Shouldn't be a worry, big corporations tend to be ethical and honest

Yes, if you could only get rid of the humans I'm sure it would improve. :P

bpizzuti

We've actually got VW co-located with Volvo.

Of course, I still think the best one is the Chevy dealer not even a mile down the road from the Caddy/Buick/GMC dealer. Which is bad, but it USED to be Chevy/Caddy down the road from Pontiac/Buick/GMC.

fintail

My grandma has a box of See's every Christmas. Good old fashioned stuff. But I often like chocolate without a filling - just an ounce or so at a time of crisp smooth stuff. Having the nominal HFCS potentially in that isn't going to kill me.

I wonder if the Euro market stuff is different. I will look when I am home - I brought a bit back with me :shades:

fintail

I could see VW and Volvo attracting the same buyer. I wonder if there are any issues with that.

Locally, I am pretty sure the Hummer dealer also had Saab, before that game failed. Can't imagine two more different buyers than Saab vs Hummer. Now the building is occupied by Caddy, which is next door to Chevy (I suspect the same owner).

berri

I've never been that big on Lindt or many of the other European chocolate companies. Isn't Godiva actually made by Campbell's soup or some such? I agree it is overrated and overpriced. I think See's is maybe the best for the money of the better quality chocolates. Fannie May used to be good, but I think the place that took them over and moved them out of Chicago changed the formula or something, because it sure doesn't seem near as good as in the old days. IMO Dove does a better copy of the old Fannie May and they are owned by Mars. Speaking of which, Ethel M's is pretty good too. Funny how the supposedly health conscious west has two great chocolate companies based out that way (See's is CA and Ethel M's is NV). Of course, Winchell's makes a decent donut

andres3

I shopped both VW and Volvo in 2005/2006 before settling on the A3, so it does happen. I also shopped SAAB.

The problem with Saab is it had the stench of GM, and Volvo had the stench of Ford associated with them.

That rotting smell was confirmed by a lot of black dot CR reviews on the Volvo's I was considering, which took them out of serious consideration, although the turbo lag on the T5 engine sealed their fate too. Saab's 2.0T was not competitive with VW/Audi's 2.0T engine in my view.

robr2

Isn't Godiva actually made by Campbell's soup or some such?

According to wiki, Campbell's bought Godiva back in 1967 and sold them in 2007 to a Turkish company called Yildiz Holdings.

Surprisingly, Godiva grew tremendously through the Campbell years. Good marketing I guess.

I'm not much into designer candy - give me a Reese Cup and a Kit Kat and I'm happy.

berri

For me, that Reese's has to be refrigerated when I eat it. Kit Kat is interesting. It's made by Hershey here, but elsewhere, including Canada, it either Mars or Nestles. I prefer the American version personally.

ateixeira

Correct, they will never become mainstream, nor should they try.

fintail

Maybe the ONE thing/food I miss when in Europe - peanut butter cups. Every now and then one can find a store that carries American stuff - but the Reeses will be stale by the time they arrive there. Luckily, there are plenty of others to keep me distracted.

stever

Hershey did a deal with Nestle long ago and got exclusive rights to sell KitKats in the US (and maybe all of NA). That killed a potential sale of Hershey a decade or so ago since a sale of the company would end the license agreement by its terms.

Hershey dabbled in designer chocolate and still owns Scharffen Berger last I looked.

Unlike cars, if you remelted some fine Belgium chocolates into a plain square and did the same with some Hershey's, most people on either continent wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Well, then again, most people probably wouldn't be able to tell you made what if you gave them an "unbranded" selection of sedans to test drive either.

I'm available and happy to test either theory btw.

gagrice

My guess is the Europeans do not use HFCS like we do in everything. It is a cheap unhealthy substitute for sugar. We also have big tariffs on Cane Sugar to protect a hand full of sugar growers in the USA. Major reason most candy factories moved to Mexico. Not high labor costs. High sugar costs.