Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options

Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

1323324326328329382

Comments

  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    edited January 2013
    3 million unfilled jobs? Based on what? Part of it might be "job creators" who don't want to pay living wages and benefits, and "job creators" who want applicants who are both entry level and experienced at the same time. Take a look out there, it's a much dirtier world than when older generations were getting started. Rich old men not finding someone willing to do manual labor in an out of the way high cost area might not reflect the picture as a whole. And what do Foxconn "engineers" engineer in sweatshop locations? Dorm layouts and suicide barriers? Foxxconn builds under contract for others, they don't design the products. They are told what to do. Foxxconn also thrives in some of the most corrupt places in the world. Why is that?

    We have the materials and ability, just not at the huge profit margins which have created the greatest socio-economic gap since before the depression. That's what it all comes down to - profit margins. With glorified slave labor and no environmental standards, those margins are huge.

    What percentage of the global economy is made up of smartphone sales?
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    edited January 2013
    To some, any tax is onerous, even if it enables the continuation of a system which enabled them to succeed in the first place. Quite a lot of the overmonied older set seems to not want to pay it forward. I have mine, to hell with you - maybe the credo of highly paid barely working seasoned managers and above, everywhere.

    I think you might have forgotten - corporations control government, not the other way around. He who has the gold makes the rules. The players aren't submitting to the rules, they are writing the rules for their benefit. I don't get how some forget that, just as some embrace sleazy tax havens enabled by the American tax dollar, yet can't name them.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What percentage of the global economy is made up of smartphone sales?

    My guess about as much as automobiles. Apple just reported $54.58 Billion First qtr Earnings. About what Ford and GM combined sold last qtr. And Apple only has 25% of the Smartphone market. So I would say it is a big share of the global economy. They also sold 23 million iPads. I would bet consumer electronics provides more of the global economy than anything but military spending. I would like to see how many of our welfare dollars support the cell phone industry. After all Obama gonna buy me a cell phone.

    With glorified slave labor and no environmental standards, those margins are huge.

    No argument there. So who's fault is that, if not those that buy the smartphones, iPads and LCD TVs? It is silly to blame number one Samsung. They are creating jobs for their country South Korea.
  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I think you might have forgotten - corporations control government, not the other way around.

    I don't think Nixon opened relations with China because he was beholden to corporations. Yet it all flowed from that point.

    Even if everything you say is true, I don't get why newer leaders, emerging into high level positions in the CURRENT SYSTEM of rules and laws, are castigated for following them.
  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited January 2013
    My guess about as much as automobiles. Apple just reported $54.58 Billion First qtr Earnings. About what Ford and GM combined sold last qtr.

    Did you know that Apple's iPhone business, by itself, outsells ALL of Microsoft? Pretty amazing.

    That's not even counting Macs, iPods, iTunes store, or iPads.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    Do earnings really translate into economic impact? I'd look at living wage employment as a greater impact than a corporation hoarding cash.

    The Obamaphone prattle is one of the weakest teabagnut positions. Publicly funded phone access was a program long before this dopey hypocritical regime was in office. More welfare dollars are involved with the tax breaks/defective trade policies/pity the rich personal tax policies given to those on the "creator" side of the industry than to give free phones.

    South Korea, a recipient of American aid for 60 years, yes indeed. Creating jobs, with a trust fund allowance of sorts paid by you and me. And who is blaming Samsung? I'd rather patronize Korea than some other places.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think you might have forgotten - corporations control government, not the other way around. He who has the gold makes the rules.

    Who is HE? The politician or the fatcat that represents the Corporation? I just think you have it backwards. If the bribe is not accepted, the politician is not corrupted. And it must all be legal as we saw Unions, bankers and corporate leaders all rewarded for supporting candidates in our elections. One of the biggest offshoring companies, GE got to have their CEO hang out with the President. Did it bring any of those jobs back to the USA????? They are all laughing at the ignorant middle class worker bees, from the Whitehouse to Wall Street to the Welfare offices.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    I don't believe so. If I pay you to kill someone, and you kill someone, are we both not criminals? And if I plant the seed or even coerce you, does that not give me greater liability?

    Those GE execs and their treacherous ilk also got tax breaks - corporate and personal - in order to "create jobs" and other such nonsense, did it bring jobs back? Nope. Just moved operations to yet another haven who has stability at least in part funded by Joe Taxpayer.
  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited January 2013
    Those GE execs and their treacherous ilk also got tax breaks - corporate and personal - in order to "create jobs" and other such nonsense, did it bring jobs back? Nope. Just moved operations to yet another haven who has stability at least in part funded by Joe Taxpayer.

    I don't think we're going to convince each other.

    There are thousands of companies, and of course some of them will be crooked. There is ONLY ONE Federal government. And that government is supposed to represent the people, and behave at high moral and ethical level. If the laws have been bought off them the government is crooked.

    Yes, some companies are crooked, too. Yet most are probably not. And the honest ones have to go along with the rules as well. Your analogy falls short in that for each person paying somebody to kill, there are many more who don't do that. Both parties in your example are criminals. But that doesn't mean there aren't dozens/hundreds/thousands more who are not. The honest ones still have to play by the current rules. Which means your comments about treachery are true in a limited subset of the executive population. But not as a general rule.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Boeing thing is a mess. What irks me is they keep saying it's fine and then something else breaks.

    Fuel spilling all over the runway is not fine.

    Gotta stop this lowest bid mentality. You go out of your way to find the cheapest part possible.
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    And who is blaming Samsung?

    I picked them being the largest consumer electronic company in the World.

    Do earnings really translate into economic impact? I'd look at living wage employment as a greater impact than a corporation hoarding cash.

    That is true. But what incentive is there to bring money earned elsewhere back to be taxed 45% in the case of Apple. Then being told incentives to invest in CA are off the table retroactive to 2008.

    Brown official: You’re our slave

    We are becoming slaves of the state and Federal Government with little to show for it. Could be why Tina Turner is giving back her US passport and becoming a Swiss citizen. Why many are leaving France and CA.

    http://www.calwatchdog.com/2013/01/26/brown-official-youre-our-slave/?utm_source- =twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook
  • Options
    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2013
    I couldn't help but laugh a little about the lithium battery issues.

    Passengers aren't allowed to stow lithium-ion based batteries, like those that power laptops, in their checked baggage, due to the potential fire hazard.

    But, the airplane itself is allowed to have the very same battery construction next to your baggage, in the same compartment.

    I have to wonder who didn't see this type of battery as a potential problem.

    The real winner, I think, is Airbus, because they are designing a new aircraft that, at this time, plans to also use lithium-based batteries. So, if Boeing figures it all out, they bear the engineering and negative publicity costs. If lithium batteries are ultimately rejected because Boeing can't figure it out, then Airbus gets to avoid a lot of development costs that lead to a dead end.

    A bit like the Dehavilland Comet debacle... They introduced he concept, ate the costs (both in money and publicity), figured it out, then were left in the dust...
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    edited January 2013
    Government being crooked is a given. It has been since long before either of us were around. There are degrees of crookedness.

    Companies don't really go along with rules. They make rules via lobbying, bribery, and fooling the naive into believing that they are really something. Those with less influence might suffer for rules, but as the consolidation of wealth is proving, someone is cashing in on those rules.

    Seeing that we live in a culture controlled by lobbing, I don't see how any who are operating as traitors haven't acted as killers by contributing to enable certain rules. The honest ones aren't cashing in then running away when the maintenance fees come due. The honest ones don't defend and patronize tax dodger paradises who exist more or less via the American taxpayer. What I say is a general rule, corporate and economic actions of the past couple decades prove it.

    Awful lot of defense comes up when the creators of the race to the bottom and endless malaise are called out. Makes no sense. Meal ticket comes from offshoring or tax dodging, perhaps? I don't get it. Every time the crooked are castigated, someone pipes up.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    edited January 2013
    I am sure Samsung has similar issues to Apple/Foxconn...but maybe doesn't appeal to the false free marketeers so much.

    There are places in the (legitimate, not tax dodger haven) first world to do business other than CA. Run to one of the external parasites, pay a steep exit fee.

    Buying your way into Switzerland is really nothing to be proud of. They bank for the evil, and nobody will touch it, because those with said accounts control governments.

    France, you mean Depardieu skipping out out to avoid answering to a drunk driving charge, escaping to Putin's new semi-Soviet mess?
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Companies don't really go along with rules.

    Sure they do. They just make (a lot) of the rules.

    So, anyone tire kicking an American car this weekend?
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    That's what I meant, they don't go along - they dictate. Mom and Pop's live bait shop might get hurt, but Globalmegacorp with HQs in such responsible places as Chur, Tel Aviv, and Singapore makes the rules.

    American car? Built in America (USA) an American company, built in America (USA) by a foreign company, built overseas by an American company? :shades:
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Whatever - just so long as we steer somewhat back on topic. :D
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For a while BMW bought engines made in South America for the Cooper. So a German owned Brit with Brazilian firepower.

    Sounds like the recipe for a really good mixed drink!
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    France, you mean Depardieu skipping out out to avoid answering to a drunk driving charge, escaping to Putin's new semi-Soviet mess?

    He is small potatoes. This guy stood to lose a lot by the thieves in the New French Government. By the way Tax Dodging is a noble art. 1000s of years old.

    France's richest man moves to Belgium and takes multi-billion pound fortune with him 'to avoid new socialist super-tax'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267800/Bernard-Arnault-Frances-richest-- man-moves-Belgium-avoid-new-socialist-super-tax.html
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So, anyone tire kicking an American car this weekend?

    Nothing worth wasting the gas to go and look at. At least until Jeep or the Germans bring a new diesel SUV to look at.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    There may be a solution for that soon (but maybe not out in the larger counties).
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The dealers in San Diego will not let you take a drive of more than about 5 miles, with the salesman in the vehicle. I had to schedule a test drive with Mercedes of San Diego. Audi never had a Q7 TDI to test drive. BMW was the most accommodating. My VW dealer sold out to another company so have not gotten a test drive of the Touareg TDI.
  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    But, the airplane itself is allowed to have the very same battery construction next to your baggage, in the same compartment.

    To be fair, the aircraft batteries are in electrical equipment bays, not the cargo hold. They are designed to both contain the battery, and to vent any fumes overboard in the event of a fire without it getting into the cabin.

    The issue is that two batteries had a similar problem within one week of each other, even though the aircraft has been in service for over a year, and was testing for a couple years before that, yet this had not happened before. And some electrolyte leaked out of the containment vessel, so the two issues are a) why did the batteries have a problem (twice)?; and b) should the containment have allowed the electrolyte to leak?
  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited January 2013
    The honest ones don't defend and patronize tax dodger paradises who exist more or less via the American taxpayer.

    That's kind of like saying the honest people don't leave CA due to high taxes, as then they are traitors to CA and shouldn't really move to NV, which has no income tax. That certainly makes them treacherous criminals. :P

    Perhaps we should be honoring companies who come INTO the US to manufacture, like Toyota/Honda/BMW/Kia/Hyundai/many others. That makes them more American, right? Of course they may be treacherous criminal traitors to their own countries. ;)
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Of course they may be treacherous criminal traitors to their own countries.

    Good point. Offshoring jobs from Japan, Korea and Germany to a 3rd World country like the USA is uncalled for. Taking advantage of our cheap labor provided by 30 million illegal immigrants should be dealt with by the courts. Next thing you know those automakers will be shipping cheap made vehicles back to the mother country. Oh, I forgot BMW and MB is already doing that. Probably to get away from high taxes and over paid workers in Germany. :P
  • Options
    bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    So, anyone tire kicking an American car this weekend?

    As soon as an American manufacturer makes a fun AWD car then I might. But stuff like the WRX, Juke, Forester XT, Lancer EVO, Countryman JCW, all that comes from overseas. Unless Dodge comes though with an SRT Dart with AWD.
  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Next thing you know those automakers will be shipping cheap made vehicles back to the mother country. Oh, I forgot BMW and MB is already doing that. Probably to get away from high taxes and over paid workers in Germany.

    Good one LOL.
  • Options
    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Focus ST should have been AWD.

    Why is Ford doing so much promotion with Ken Block but then only selling FWD models?
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    edited January 2013
    And wasn't the soak the rich tax idea floated by the frogs ruled illegal, and tossed out? Seems like a media spectacle, now. I wonder how Arnault "earned" his money. Maybe those fleeing should be made marked men by their respective ex-homelands. A very punitive export tax. At the very least, slide back to Clinton era tax policies in the US.

    Good comment there:

    "After working for 44 years and paying 38% of my income to the govt. I resented the merchant bankers I worked with getting free corporate advice on how to shelter their HUGE bonuses (usually in the millions) while the majority of the staff made do with tiny bonuses and no advice. It wasn't as if these bankers provided a service - after 16 years of working with them I can ASSURE you that they did not. They specialized in taking corporations apart, selling off their assets, seizing the pension plans and getting rid of unions. I'm not a socialist and I believe in the free market system, but where are the checks and balances?"

    Sounds pretty applicable to our experienced upper management/executive classes who in reality bring nothing to the table, too.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    edited January 2013
    If they are useless dreck like consultants etc, yes, it makes them pretty treacherous. Some boast along the lines of "change it if you don't like it", maybe those who made a fortune in the huge money pot that is CA and then run away once they get theirs should think about changing it. But I guess they got theirs, climbed a ladder that doesn't exist anymore while now looking down on those trying to climb, to hell with everyone else.

    There's a difference between running away to avoid maintaining the system that enabled one to exist (and to exploit the hideous policies of social and environmental criminals), and setting up branch plants to save logistics costs. Just as one can't hold it against GM for making their Chinese market vehicles in China rather than shipping them from Detroit. Apples and oranges to someone taking advantage of a system and then not wanting to maintain it when it needs TLC.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    edited January 2013
    Hey, we are a second world country, and proud of it! :P

    Those automakers moved production of vehicles to the place where they sell most. It's simply to save on shipping. The extra demand elsewhere gets exported, and the local areas offer substantial bribes to make more "made in USA" cars, even if they are really Deutschland uber alles. Doesn't the US have higher corporate taxes than Germany? Germany makes up for it with higher personal taxes - and IMO a better standard of living.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    How many Americans even know who Block is?
  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How many Americans even know who Block is?

    You mean H&R Block? They are lousy tax people.
  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    There's a difference between running away to avoid maintaining the system that enabled one to exist (and to exploit the hideous policies of social and environmental criminals), and setting up branch plants to save logistics costs. Just as one can't hold it against GM for making their Chinese market vehicles in China rather than shipping them from Detroit.

    Of course GM also imported Chinese engines into the US, when they could have as easily made them in the US. And they manufacture in Mexico, too. So I guess the better answer is for them to move it all to the US, where the UAW sucking sound would make them bankrupt even quicker than before, correct?

    As usual you are drastically oversimplifying things. With some elements of truth, yet we can't paint all auto workers, managers, execs, CEOs, consultants, etc. with the same broad brush. Simplicity is very compelling, but rarely accurate. The devil is in the details. Everybody is an individual and en masse, most people are pretty good. The problem is that even 1% bad apples can spoil the entire basket. Which is why I don't agree that labeling everybody the same way makes any sense. What is needed is controls that an incestuous system (and we both agree on that) won't allow or add to the current rules, laws, and regulations. And so it goes.
  • Options
    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited January 2013
    Heck Boeing can't even build a safe plane anymore. What's up with that???

    I think my ex-employer needs to listen to its engineers, technicians and mechanics some more and spend less time eating jelly donuts, BS-ing away the time talking bean-counting, money-saving nonsense and get down to brass tacks building safe, competent, quality-built jetliners once again.

    Boeing is being run by incompetent bean-counting dorks who lay off people to feed their fleeting egos and fund their falsey-hyped profit Wall-Street machine. Slump further into Puget Sound and battle with the octupus, Boeing management bean counting idiots. Bleh!

    As for American cars to entertain us, the more European Ford can make the Focus, the more I like it.

    And once again, I got in a long conversation about what cars are better in the snow, RWD, AWD or FWD. I have aways read that FWD is best, or 4WD or AWD. But a friend was going on and on yesterday about his Cadillac Catera and its RWD trumping everything else in the snow and ice. Because the front wheels are not jumping about all over the place with a FWD setup. And he was claiming that even your Subaru's and their AWD don't manuever through the slippery getups at all as well as his RWD rigs.

    What d'ya all think about this argument of his? Or opinion of his? It is wintertime, after all carnuts. ;) Oh, just for more fun, this new friend of mine who has retired down here in NM is a former Boeing engineer. So we were talkin' raster data, CAD/CAM, Bogart, CATIA and perspective and orthographic views, et all. What a fun time yesterday!

    But do chime in with your AWD/FWD/RWD favorites for winter driving, I'd be interested in any of your takes on this subject.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • Options
    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The best vehicles I have owned for snow and ice were GM 3/4 ton 4X4 extended cab PU trucks. The length gave them stability on the icy roads of Alaska. It is hard to beat tall 4 wheel drive vehicles in deep snow. Of the small cars I have owned the best on snow was my 1967 VW Bug. The worst on snow and ice was my 1973 FWD Subaru and 1978 FWD Honda Accord. Anything over 4-5 inches of wet snow and those FWD cars would bounce all over. The Subaru was the worst as it would jump out of gear while you had both hands on the wheel trying to keep the car on the road. My 1970 Datsun PU truck with RWD was much better on snow and ice. It took me through some pretty rough snow conditions. I kept a couple hundred pounds of sand in the bed all winter. My Suburban 4x4 was good the one time we had it in snow up in the Sierras. My 4x4 Sequoia has never seen snow. I imagine it would do fine. Works pretty good in sand considering how big and heavy it is.
  • Options
    bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    And once again, I got in a long conversation about what cars are better in the snow, RWD, AWD or FWD. I have aways read that FWD is best, or 4WD or AWD. But a friend was going on and on yesterday about his Cadillac Catera and its RWD trumping everything else in the snow and ice. Because the front wheels are not jumping about all over the place with a FWD setup. And he was claiming that even your Subaru's and their AWD don't manuever through the slippery getups at all as well as his RWD rigs.

    What d'ya all think about this argument of his? Or opinion of his?


    I think he's delusional. ;) How is he gonna like his non-posi non-TC RWD setup when one of his wheels is on ice? There are lots of reasons for having all four wheels driven, and they all amount to TRACTION, as in more of it than any 2WD car can ever get at any one point in time. Traction is a very good thing.

    Also, he's singing praises about a Cadillac Catera, which calls his sanity into question anyway. :shades:
  • Options
    bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Best snow car I've had to this point was actually my 96 Chevy Corsica. It's the one thing it did really well, it handled itself in snow great, never really lost traction on the front wheels thanks to that heavy, primitive, iron V6, and the transmission's low mode automatically dropped to first gear when you took your foot off the gas in order to engine brake.

    Not that all that revving was a healthy thing for a primitive pushrod V6 with a redline that was probably around 5000 RPM (who knows, the thing didn't have a tach) but it worked while I had it. Lightweight aluminum block I4s, no matter how much I might like them otherwise, just don't hold the front wheels down as effectively as an overweight iron block V6. But that's OK, AWD will fix that on my next car. :shades:
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    But do chime in with your AWD/FWD/RWD favorites for winter driving

    The forecast for your area today is 66° and partly cloudy. Ski Cloudcroft hasn't even been able to open. So where the heck are you planning on driving - way up to Durango or something?

    You should be asking what the best rig for rock and sand is. :shades:
  • Options
    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    To be fair, the aircraft batteries are in electrical equipment bays, not the cargo hold. They are designed to both contain the battery, and to vent any fumes overboard in the event of a fire without it getting into the cabin.


    Point taken, I should have been more specific. What I was getting at was that the batteries are "out of sight", unlike unchecked luggage. Even in the overhead compartment, if an item catches fire, there's an excellent chance it can be extinguished.

    The issue is that two batteries had a similar problem within one week of each other, even though the aircraft has been in service for over a year, and was testing for a couple years before that, yet this had not happened before. And some electrolyte leaked out of the containment vessel, so the two issues are a) why did the batteries have a problem (twice)?; and b) should the containment have allowed the electrolyte to leak?

    Agree with the comment. I would also add one thing. Did you see the pictures of the fried battery? That wasn't a minor problem. I sure wouldn't want to be in the air with what was going on in that plane.

    I'm sure Boeing will find a solution, but I'm not nearly as confident it will be in using lithium-ion batteries at this point. If they do find a "solution" and a plane has an accident due to those batteries, you're going to see lawyers crawling out of the woodwork...
  • Options
    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited January 2013
    The forecast for your area today is 66° and partly cloudy. Ski Cloudcroft hasn't even been able to open. So where the heck are you planning on driving - way up to Durango or something?

    You should be asking what the best rig for rock and sand is.


    We're just boppin' around Alamogordo lately, it's sunny and 59 degrees right now, nice. The wife wants to go get some dye so we can dye a few of my scrubs black. The RT department needs to have black or maroon colored scrubs. I have one maroon pair, one pair of scrubs with the Seahawks emblem on the chest (blue), one other blue pair (Dickies) and a grey pair. So we're thinking of dying some scrubs.

    Nice to be well...southern NM is suffering through some nasty viruses of late. Unfortunately, iluv has been affected. Strangely, 2 days after a nurse at the hospital gave me my flu shot I was nauseated and sick. Strange potion, huh?

    Thanks for your snowy driving opinions.

    The count is: RWD 4
    FWD 1 (bpizzuti - your Chevy Corsica is FWD, right?)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • Options
    bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    edited January 2013
    Yeah. Of course, the thing died on me at 98k miles, I think it was. It also handled poorly, probably because of the heavy nose again. But yeah, that particular FWD car was good in the snow.

    Where'd you get the 4 RWDs? Gagrice mentioned 2 4x4s (a Suburban and a GMC pick-up) and one RWD pick-up (Datsun I think it was).

    I also mentioned I would be getting a Subaru, not sure if we should count that too:

    FWD - 1 (Chevy Corsica V6)
    RWD - 2 (Datsun p/u, Catera "p-u" heh)
    4X4 - 2 (Suburban, GMC 3/4 ton p/u)
    AWD - 1 (Subaru Forester)

    Incidentally, Mazda3 sucks in snow, even with good tires. My current Elantra Touring is OK...not quite "good" but an improvement. Might be because the tires are slightly narrower.

    Used to be FWD cars were great in snow, but I think the switch from iron to aluminum engines (particularly the engine blocks) reduced a lot of weight over the front axle, and that weight was probably helping traction some.
  • Options
    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    I don't know which ones are 4WD or RWD, that's all.

    So the count is:

    FWD- 1
    RWD-2
    4X4- 3 (Our '01 Kia Sportage 4X4 gripped like a champ in the ice and snow)
    AWD-1

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • Options
    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Used to be FWD cars were great in snow, but I think the switch from iron to aluminum engines (particularly the engine blocks) reduced a lot of weight over the front axle, and that weight was probably helping traction some.

    My VW Beetle (air cooled) was good in snow. Those cars were known to be quite good since the engine was right over the rear wheels.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    I do my own taxes, I don't know about that :shades: . But Ken Block, an American rally driver, is probably more known in Europe than at home.
  • Options
    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,176
    Nobody is going to look to GM for examples of sound long term decision making, especially for the home market. Funny thing about those Chinese engines, they are widely seen as a hoary obsolete lump - probably did more brand equity damage bringing them over than the (likely small) amount of money saved. I'd take a 3.9 assembled by UAW types over a Chinese 3.4 any day of the week. Penny wise and pound foolish, it's the executive way.

    There are exceptions to every rule, but still the rules remain.
  • Options
    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    VW Beetles did great in the snow unless you got them high centered.

    That happened pretty often since there wasn't much clearance.
  • Options
    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2013
    The SuperBeetle I had in Anchorage in '80 would go anywhere.

    Good thing too, since you couldn't see out the windows below 35°. :D
  • Options
    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited January 2013
    here's the latest count. So my friend is right, RWD trumps all other Donald-trumps out there? Ya mean I was lied to all these years about FWD being da best in the snow? Say it isn't so!

    FWD- 1
    RWD-4
    4X4- 3
    AWD-1

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • Options
    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I remember two things about Beetles in winter: 1. great for doing donuts in the snow and 2. as someone already mentioned, needing an ice scraper for the inside windows.
Sign In or Register to comment.