Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

1321322324326327382

Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Could we get back to buying American cars please?

    My point was Indiana unlike some other states is trying to get industry moving in the USA. I applaud their new Governor and legislature.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Get industry moving" - that sounds like code for tax breaks and giveaways.

    The auto industry is certainly moving up here in Michigan. I see something on the news most weeks about federal dollars for research, or state funded jump-start programs. :P
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    What always strikes me as more than ironic is that many of these tea party people are from the states that get the most back each year from the federal government versus what they pay in, places like Alabama. They talk this big game about being fiscally prudent while their actions in congress are more like pigs at the feeding trough!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2013
    Typo? It's spelled A-l-a-s-k-a. Full of independent frontier sorts of people, getting back more than $5 for every $1 paid in taxes.

    Have to admit that the trough up there has slimmed down a bit since Ted Stevens left office. (NY Times)

    Rinse and repeat for your state. :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "To bring the story of mobster Mickey Cohen’s reign over post-war Los Angeles to life, the director of “Gangster Squad” employed Sean Penn, Josh Brolin, Ryan Gosling and more than 100 irreplaceable vintage American cars.

    These beauties are stars themselves, bringing an authenticity and aesthetic charm to the screen that computer graphics can’t match."

    The cars are the stars in 1940s drama 'Gangster Squad' (poughkeepsiejournal.com)
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2013
    I agree. When I was riding the Alaskan Railway from Anchorage to Fairbanks a couple years back, the "cruise director" (someone supplied by the railway to point out things to see along the way over the railway intercom) was constantly pointing out improvements made to the rail system (new track, bridges, etc.), and always included the factoid that these improvements were paid for by grants from the federal government.

    Funny, one would think Alaska would use some of that oil money rebate it gives to each Alaskan to improve tourist-attracting features. Seems they don't see it that way.

    Getting back to the topic...

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/01/21/made-in-usa-trend- - /1785539/
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    edited January 2013
    berri: What always strikes me as more than ironic is that many of these tea party people are from the states that get the most back each year from the federal government versus what they pay in, places like Alabama.

    A red herring argument. "States" do not pay taxes to the federal government - businesses and individuals within those states do.

    "Blue" states have many more high-income people and large corporations who pay more in federal taxes than "red" states do. I'm pretty certain that there are more millionaires and billionaires in Los Angeles or New York City alone, for example, than in all of Alabama or Mississippi.

    "Blue states" regularly give their electoral college votes to presidential candidates who have campaigned on raising taxes on the rich and more federal spending.

    Guess what - a higher percentage of those awful rich people live in blue states.

    If this were really an issue, voters in those states would support candidates who campaign to curb federal spending, lower taxes on the rich and expand the tax base to capture more people who don't pay any federal income taxes.

    (Of course, the dirty little secret of those "blue" states is that they have plenty of people dependent on government programs, too. They just have more of those hideous, blood-sucking vampires, I mean, rich people, to actually pay the bill. In "blue" Pennsylvania, for example, 40 percent of the population of reliably Democratic Philadelphia has an income below the federal poverty level. Do you really believe that they are voting for Libertarians or conservative Republicans?)

    Otherwise, they need to stop whining - they are getting what they want.

    This argument makes it sound as though each state writes out a check to the federal government, and the federal government then cuts a check for each state, and purposely shorts the "blue" states.

    I work in the legislative branch of Pennsylvania government, and I can assure you that it simply doesn't happen this way.

    (You also have to account for the number of military bases in "red" states, not to mention the high amount of federally owned land in those states. I'm guessing that the federal government controls a higher percentage of the total land area in Alaska or Wyoming than it does in New York or New Jersey. The federal money that supports those military bases or administers that land is spent in those states, and is part of that calculation.)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Once in awhile I would get a customer who was determined that Japan built Hondas were somehow "better" than the ones built in the US or Canada.

    They would go so far as to walk around our lot looking for "J" cars.

    Nonne of us were ever able to detect even the slightest difference in build quality or anything else between Japan cars and the ones assembled elsewhere.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It's spelled A-l-a-s-k-a.

    I don't think it includes the tax revenue from oil. And I am sure it does not include the $billions in gold confiscated while AK was a territory. The Feds have made a killing on the $7 million Seward's Folly.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, that $7 million went to bribe some NY senator didn't it? :P

    Here come more "American" auto jobs:

    Canada to invest $16.9M to produce Toyota hybrid vehicle (Detroit News)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Probably for the baby RX, right?

    Huge sales potential, not that I'll be shopping for one.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,531
    edited January 2013
    You're not the right gender to be eyeing that thing :shades:

    Funny that someone as rich as Toyota gets to feed at the trough. Almost as funny as calling Canada "American" - lots of people there would beg to differ.

    But not as funny as the previous discussion about those priding themselves on independence and hating government being somewhat dependent on governmental spending, in one way or another.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, loan not grant.

    Plus, 400 jobs and you saw how well paid CAW are. $60k minimum, times 400, imagine the taxes collected on that $24M in annual salaries alone.

    Sounds incredibly profitable to me. A no-brainer, really.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,531
    But is the loan really needed? And what are the terms? It's better than publicly subsidized sports arenas or trickle down tax policy etc, but still.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good question. $16M is a tiny amount compared to the long-term impact it will have on that local economy, though.

    Some states offer bigger incentives to new businesses, and I mean permanent ones, such as tax holidays.

    That's why you have some WalMart stores moving 3 blocks over, in to a different county/state, to seek a tax break.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    They would go so far as to walk around our lot looking for "J" cars.

    I think that's perfectly understandable as a previous owner of an American made/built car, I would want all my future cars to be made as far different and as far away as possible from America.

    Also, my Japanese built Civics have been more reliable and dependable than the Ohio built Accord.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There are specific examples where the J cars are better - Toyota trucks frames for example. Get a J to avoid rust.

    But generally, when it comes to big volume, it's hard to tell any difference.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Toyota trucks frames for example. Get a J to avoid rust.

    AFAIK - no such thing. Toyota isn't willing to pay the 25% chicken tax on an imported truck.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    But generally, when it comes to big volume, it's hard to tell any difference.

    I just can't agree. My American built Accord had a few rattles that were easily fixed with a service warranty visit under warranty, but the J-built Civics have never had any such issues.

    Granted, I'll give you that one interior trim piece on the latest Civic was ill-fitting and had to be redone, but that was shocking.

    Those autoworkers in Japan have been making near flawless vehicles their whole careers, and have a lot of experience making good cars.

    The workers in America have little to no experience making good cars, especially if you take away Ohio's Honda plant.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Land Cruiser and Lexus LX and GX don't have that issue.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wasn't the Volt among the most reliable cars in CR's latest survey?

    They're certainly capable.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The Land Cruiser and Lexus LX and GX don't have that issue.

    I wasn't thinking of those. I assumed you were talking J vin Tacoma. But no issues with Tundra frames have cropped up AFAIK.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    And wasn't it the US built gas pedal (accelerator) assemblies that were to blame for some of the sudden unintended acceleration issues Toyota was having?

    There are many who would agree nothing can compete with the reliability of an early 90's Toyota or Honda built in Japan.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I didn't know there were J VIN Tacomas. You learn something every day.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2013
    Elkhart, Indiana based CTS.

    NASA found some "tin whiskers" on those but said they would not cause the wide open throttles, only minor fluctuations in RPM.

    Inspections at Toyota would not have caught that since the pedal assembly was sealed up.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I didn't know there were J VIN Tacomas. You learn something every day.

    That's what I originally meant - there are no J VIN Tacomas as they would be subject to the chicken tax. So one cannot look for one and as such, no way to avoid the Dana frame on those models.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK. I'll go take more vitamins now. :D
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,960
    Then sign a contract with me for my next "USA" made vehicle.

    I'll consider the ATS if and only if, it passes my test drive requirements, AND:

    1) One you you here signs a contract that:
    A) Pays me for any costs out of warranty and out of normal maintenance up to 10 years or 125,000 miles.
    B) Pays me for a decent rental car every time it needs service (if Cadillac doesn't).
    C) Pays me for 100% refund buyback if the vehicle ends up being a lemon as defined under CA lemon laws (If GM doesn't).
    D) Set up an escrow fund with $10,000 so that I know the potential costs will be funded and paid.

    In exchange for these considerations, I'll pay you the same amount it took my Accord to get to 65K miles ($0.00), or I'm sure you'll prefer, the same amount it took my Audi A3 to get to 96K miles ($700) outside of regular maintenance costs.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    B) is no problem. Cadillac has always given me a nice loaner car when mine is in for service. I got to drive a lot of Cadillac's latest models this way.

    Outside of normal maintenance, the costs to bring my 1989 Cadillac Brougham 24 years and 158K+ miles has been negligible.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Outside of normal maintenance, the costs to bring my 1989 Cadillac Brougham 24 years and 158K+ miles has been negligible.

    My BIL has an '88 Corvette with 45k miles on that he's owned since it was one year old and he has a 3 ring binder full of repair receipts. I think he's replaced it one part at a time. Hey that sounds like a Johnny Cash song;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,700
    edited January 2013
    >"...ring binder full of repair receipts. "

    Oh, no. They made fun of binders during the election, as I recall. LOL

    On the serious side, how many were maintenance and how many were repairs? That's a lot of years and a lot of regular oil changes and lube jobs.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    Corvette has right up near the top of owner satisfaction per a recent CR...but it was still below the Volt.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    edited January 2013
    With the chaos of Roger Smith's reorganization, his misguided attempt to fully automate GM factories and GM switching to front-wheel-drive platforms, the 1980s were a very rough time for GM.

    The quality of the Corvette and F-bodies, in particular, was awful during that decade. Around 1989-90, GM did try to address the problems with those cars.

    At the 1990 Corvettes at Carlisle show, I remember that GM displayed a 1991 Corvette covered with little cardboard "sticky" notes pointing out all of the improvements that were being made to the car.

    Lemko's 1989 Cadillac was, by that point, a very proven design (the basic body and chassis debuted in the fall of 1976) that used one of GM's most reliable engines.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Corvette has right up near the top of owner satisfaction per a recent CR...but it was still below the Volt.

    You've asked others not to cherry pick data. These are two high ranking GM's in owner satisfaction, but there are many, many more that rank quite low.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,531
    As has been said about C4 Corvettes - especially all but the very last ones - they age in dog years. Interiors especially. Didn't really get much better until the C6, and even it can be borderline inside.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,936
    It was in response to someone's post about a...Corvette. Check back and you'll see.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    It was in response to someone's post about a...Corvette. Check back and you'll see.

    You are correct, sorry about that. I was confusing different threads when I answered.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    they age in dog years.

    LOL, that can be said of many domestics.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I believe Lemko's Cadillac didn't use the horrible HT 4100 engine that nearly put Cadillac out of business.

    Those came out in 1982 and they were pure junk. They didn't get them right until 1988. They also had the one year only 4-6-8 engines in 1981 that were primitive in nature. They fooled around with diesels, and stuck underpowered V-6's in full sized Cadillacs.

    During those dark years, they lost a lot of very loyal customers and for good reason!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think many Corvette owners will regret their purchase. If you want a Corvette, my guess is not much could replace it on your wish list. Maybe a Viper, but even then no, you'd already be a Mopar guy so the vette would not have been at the top of your list anyway.

    The new one looks promising, especially the improvements inside.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    edited January 2013
    I believe Lemko's Cadillac didn't use the horrible HT 4100 engine that nearly put Cadillac out of business.

    That's right...in 1986, Cadillac wised up and started putting Olds 307-4bbls in the RWD Caddies. It wasn't overly powerful, with only 140 hp, but torque wasn't bad, at 255 ft-lb, and peak torque came on pretty early.

    The transmission was the THM200R4, which was based on the lightweight, infamous THM200, but for the most part, GM worked the bugs out of that transmission after a few years. And, some versions of it were beefy enough to be used in full-sized station wagons, as well as Buick Regal T-types, Grand Nationals, and even the mythical 1987 GNX.

    They fooled around with diesels, and stuck underpowered V-6's in full sized Cadillacs.

    That V-6 was the Buick 4.1/252 4-bbl V-6. I believe it was a credit option. It had the same hp as the Caddy 4.1/249 V-8, 125. However, one dirty little secret was that the V-6 put out a bit more torque: 205 ft-lb, versus 195.

    I wonder, if the V-6 might have been lighter, as well? The V-8 was aluminum, but Buick's V-6 was very lightweight for an iron block.

    As a result, I've heard you were better off getting the V-6, than you were the 249 V-8!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    but Buick's V-6 was very lightweight for an iron block.

    They put Buick V6 engines into Jeeps back in the late 1960s. And that was a great match-up. I would not mind having one of those old CJ-5s now.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    They put Buick V6 engines into Jeeps back in the late 1960s. And that was a great match-up. I would not mind having one of those old CJ-5s now.

    Buick sold the tooling to Jeep around 1968, and what little demand was left for 6-cyl Buicks was filled with the Chevy 250-6.

    But then, in the 70's, with fuel economy being a concern, GM decided to buy that tooling back. To save money, they bored it out so that it could use the same pistons as a Buick 350 V-8, and that took its displacement up slightly, from 225 CID to 231.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Living in Detroit in the 80s, I seem to recall (those are fudge words that will allow me to be wrong and still make my statement...:):)...) that as the marysville plant was getting up and rolling, they were making good Accords, but the "rumor" was that the J-built Accords were much better in the first few years (supposedly, all Accords sold west of the Mississippi were J-built and those sold east were made in Ohio)...but after 4 or 5 years, all the car magazines were saying the same thing: that Ohio built Accords were equal to, or better than, the J-built ones...

    I credit that to one simple fact...that every time the UAW tried to unionize the plant, at least 2 or 3 occasions, the election was called off a day or 2 prior to the election, because the UAW realized they would lose by a landslide...

    No union, no employee problems, and quality built cars...dipso-facto...that is why Honda can make the same volume of cars as GM in a given plant, but Honda needs 2000 workers and GM needs 6000 workers...and they wonder why GM was bankrupt...

    I miss my 88 Prelude with 4 wheel steering...the BEST car I ever owned...lasted 13 years and 185,000 miles...gave it to my brother-in-law, he wrecked it 2 months later...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    No, my car has the 5.0 (307 cid) V-8. I have a friend with a 1983 Cadillac Sedan DeVille with the HT4100 engine. They made a lot of improvements for 1983, but I still wouldn't trusted that engine. If I were Cadillac, I'd have just stuck with the 425 V-8 from 1977-79 until a suitable alternative was develpoed and told the eco-weenies in DC to cram it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited January 2013
    There must not have been too many of those 4-wheel steering Preludes as I've never seen one outside of a television commercial. Was the 4-wheel steering option frightfully expensive thus keeping many from ordering it? What were the advantages and drawbacks of 4-wheel steering ?

    This idea isn't new. I remember seeing an experimental 1967 Buick Special with 4-wheel steering. Chevrolet and GMC briefly offered it on trucks in the 2000s. I haven't seen 4-wheel steering offered on a vehicle since.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited January 2013
    I miss my 88 Prelude with 4 wheel steering...the BEST car I ever owned...lasted 13 years and 185,000 miles...gave it to my brother-in-law, he wrecked it 2 months later...

    image

    Oh man, those were the best ones! Almost bought one (exact one as above)myself in 93' with 40 thousand miles on it but being 19 yrs old the dealer actually told me "sorry kid, you can't afford this car" before I could even discuss price :(

    Instead about a month later, I bought a 93' Probe GT which to this day is one of my favorite cars I have ever owned, second only to my P&J S2000. :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I ordered an 88 Prelude in 1987. I thought they were great looking and driving cars. When it came in it had that horrible looking wing on the trunk. I told them get me one without the ugly wing or give me back my deposit. Last time I really considered a Honda. Not sure why I did then after my horrible experience with the 1978 Accord. My last experience hopefully forever was a two weeks rental of a 2010 POC Accord.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,531
    I knew a (spoiled) girl in high school who had one, and another girl who's mother had one. I have to wonder how that system aged, if it eventually malfunctioned and disabled anything, or simply vanished.

    I think Acura is going to have 4WS on its upcoming larger model.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I had a friend in college that had a Prelude SI 4WS. Very cool and fun car to drive.

    I don't think the 4WS caused to much trouble as IIRC it was purely mechanical. So you only have to worry about mechanical parts wearing out versus both mechanical and electrical or possibly even hydraulic.

    I think it was neat but not really needed. It was weird changing lanes at highway speed as both the front and rear wheels turned together. But when during sharper steering angles, the rear wheels would turn opposite which made parking u-turns and sharp corners a breeze.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.