Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    Also born in the 70s and being a child in the 80s/90s, there are few mainstream cars I would even want to touch. There are many cars from the era that I like, but most of them were exotic and expensive when new.

    Thinking of the cars in my family when I was growing up - leviathan T-Bird, Horizon, Blazer, Ciera, Tempo, Tauri, Caravan, etc - nothing I want to revisit.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,051
    Thinking of the cars in my family when I was growing up - leviathan T-Bird, Horizon, Blazer, Ciera, Tempo, Tauri, Caravan, etc - nothing I want to revisit.

    Of that bunch, I think one of those big T-birds might not be bad, although I'd much prefer the Mark IV. And for some twisted reason, I kinda have a soft spot for the Ciera. I think it was my favorite of those FWD A-bodies. But, I dunno if I'd want one. Maybe if some family member had a nice one they wanted to give away, or unload cheap, and I needed a car?

    In a sort of way, I've almost revisited the first two brand-new cars my Mom owned. Her first new car was a '66 Catalina convertible, and her second was a '75 LeMans coupe. I ended up with almost the same thing, just a year later ('67 and 76).

    Mom's very first car was a 1957 Plymouth, so I guess with my '57 DeSoto, I've come close to revisiting that, too. Her second car was a pink and black 1959 Rambler wagon, and I refuse to go down that road. :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    edited January 2013
    The cars of my youth--my Dad was a thrifty guy and didn't own a new car 'til 67--were a '56 Chevy two-door sedan, '62 Ford Fairlane (the car that turned Dad off Fords forever), a new '67 Chevelle sedan, a '73 Nova coupe, Rally Wheels, extra trim outside and a 3-speed on the floor--nicer than it sounds although I didn't like the '73 bumpers--a '74 Impala Sport Coupe (all four windows rolled down; a true hardtop), a '77 Impala coupe bought Nov. '76, and an '80 Monte Carlo with Rally Wheels in Army green with gold painted pinstripe. My first new car was a two-tone dark/light jade '81 Monte Carlo V8 and postraction. At 22, I thought I had 'arrived'.

    My grandparents' had a plum '67 Impala Sport Coupe that I was pretty fond of. Unfortunately, they got rid of it to buy the first new Vega (a sedan, no less) our dealer got in!

    My Dad's youngest sister had a new navy blue '65 Corvair Monza hardtop coupe, powerglide with the 95 (ugh) hp engine though. Looked nice even with blackwalls and full wheel covers.

    My older sister and husband lived in our town and I can remember them having a white over light turquoise 4-door '65 Dodge Coronet 440, '69 Chevelle Malibu, bright red, a new '73 Chevelle Deluxe 6-cyl. wagon (dark brown), a used '73 International Travelall and used '74 Pontiac Catalina, a new '75 Buick Century Special coupe with the Buick road wheels (bought from the parts dept.), a new Dayglo orange '76 Vega Kammback (I liked it), and after that... I can't remember. I was in college.

    My brother-in-law's parents, also from our town, I remember having a '61 Pontiac Bonneville 4-door, white; a white over maroon '64 Catalina 2-door hardtop, and a black vinyl top over maroon '65 Grand Prix, which I just loved to death. Then, they had a dark green '70 LeSabre coupe, Buick road wheels, and a '74 LeSabre coupe, just wheel covers but a copper color, and after that, I can't remember.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    My mother loved the T-Bird, but I can't imagine it being fun to drive, just too big and thirsty. I know that car had occasional issues too, mainly related to emissions junk IIRC. The Ciera wasn't troublesome, just bland, and maybe not of perfect assembly quality, as I remember squeaks and rattles. I remember it had plush upholstery and good AC anyway.

    My mom had her coolest cars (61 Impala convertible, Ford retractable, Beetle with a Porsche engine) before I was born. Same for my dad with a couple of Crown Vics, 58 and 60 Pontiacs, 67 Galaxie convertible, etc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    edited January 2013
    I'd say a 22 year old in a new Monte had arrived! My parents had a huge T-Bird and a Horizon around that time. My dad did have a 70 Mustang before the Horizon, a car he liked and owned for many years, but I have no real memory of it. Being out west, cars aged slower than out east.

    My maternal grandparents had a few midrange Chrysler and Olds cars, and my grandfather still worked then, company cars usually Toyota. My paternal grandparents always had a small fleet - a car, van/motorhome, and truck - all mostly GM, but my grandmother did have a Pinto which I vaguely remember. Coolest relatives cars I recall were an aunt and uncle who had a T-top Fox Mustang, and the aunt won a "Comutacar" in a contest, I thought it was amazing, when I was about 5 years old.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,051
    My mom had her coolest cars (61 Impala convertible, Ford retractable, Beetle with a Porsche engine) before I was born. Same for my dad with a couple of Crown Vics, 58 and 60 Pontiacs, 67 Galaxie convertible, etc.

    Yeah, same with my parents. Mom had the '57 Plymouth, '59 Rambler, and '66 Catalina convertible before I was born. She still had the convertible after I was born, but got rid of it when I was about two years old, so I don't remember it. The earliest I can remember is the '68 Impala 4-door hardtop my grandparents swapped her for the Catalina, and then they traded it on a new '72 Impala 4-door hardtop.

    Then came the '75 LeMans, which I thought was ugly. Then her '80 Malibu, which I liked a lot, and it became my first car. Then, her '86 Monte Carlo, which also got handed down to me, and the last car that was really "hers". After that, she and my stepdad started carpooling together, so instead of his and hers cars, it would just be "theirs".

    As for my Dad, his first was a '64 Galaxie 500 hardtop with a 390. Then a '63 Impala SS409 with the 425 hp setup. He sold that when he got drafted. When he got out, he got a '65 Impala SS396 with the 425 hp. That threw a rod on a lonely country road in 1971, and he just left it, abandoned. The first car I can remember him having was a 1962 Corvette that was pretty trashy. That followed with a '64 GTO that was also ratty. Then a '64 Galaxie 4-door that my Granddad got for him to use, so he'd quit driving my Mom's cars and leaving her stuck with a stick shift she couldn't drive.

    It is kinda sad how, as the years went by, the cars just got less and less exciting.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Interesting thing about T-Birds:

    Classic Ford Thunderbird Is Darling of Car Thieves

    image
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Call me crazy but I always likes those T-Birds/Cougars/Elites.

    Right there holds just about every automotive styling cliche of the 70's:

    T Tops
    Landau Roof
    Opera Windows
    Pin Stripes
    Rally Wheels
    White Stripe Tires
    Side Vents
    Hood Ornament
    Hood long enough to sleep on
    Trunk big enough for 3 dead mobsters

    Ah the good old days.....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    edited January 2013
    Ooh nice, I like the t-tops .

    My mother's car was virtually identical to this - probably not much theft risk there:

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,517
    Kids make people boring/sensible, I guess.

    If anything, these lists show how much better cars age nowadays. It's still hard for me to imagine cars worn out at 10 years old or less.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2013
    LOL!

    I remember a fellow I worked with (pre-airbag days) telling me he liked long hoods.... The longer, the better.

    He would say that, in a head-on collision, you could watch the hood crumpling up accordion-style and had time to step out of the passenger compartment before the damage got that far back...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I read the new Grand Cherokee will be offering a 6 cylinder diesel

    They're showing it at the Detroit Auto Show.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Matching hair and outfit too. :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    For a 55 Chevy convertable to bring 100K would take some doing.

    Maybe a Barrett Jackson Trailer Queen being bid on by two drunken multi millionaires with more money than brains.

    Actually a Chevy like that would bring more than that Continental. They don't have that strong of a following and weren't really all that great mechanically.

    And they were very complex and parts would be VERY hard to find.

    Me, I would take the Chevy!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You figure in 1957, 10,000 would buy a pretty nice house.

    I once read that the 56-57 Continentals were the darling of a lot of Movie Stars at the time.

    They were good looking but troublesome.

    Then 1958 rolled along and things REALLY went downhill!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Dig that color scheme! Is this Ronald McDonald's personal ride and is that his mistress next to it? I'm sure Mrs. McDonald is morbidly obese from too much of Ronny's cuisine.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, I have pictures of my neighborhood when it was being developed in the mid-1950s. A sign advertises nice single homes for $14,000! Good God, you can't even get a cheap new Kia for that price nowadays!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,051
    A sign advertises nice single homes for $14,000! Good God, you can't even get a cheap new Kia for that price nowadays!

    I think my Mom's 1986 Monte Carlo was about $14.5K, out the door. It was a base sport coupe, with crank windows, but at least had the 305, a/c, two-tone paint, nice stereo, etc.

    On the surface, it sounds like you don't get much for your money nowadays, but I bet that $14.5K in 1986, adjusting for inflation, would be around $30K today! :surprise:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    edited January 2013
    What colors was your Mom's '86 Monte, and what wheels did it have?

    My Dad's '84 Monte, 305, 55/45 front seat, AC, cruise, tilt, AM-FM, rear speaker, rally wheels, monotone paint stickered at the bottom at $11,409.00. I remember that distinctly. It was built in Arlington, TX. It was what I'd have called 'firethorn', but by then I think Chevy was just calling it "light maroon" or something like that. Matching interior in cloth.

    In my memory, nobody paid sticker back then, and I know Chevy trades brought more than they often do now.

    Well, now that I think about it, my Dad did pay sticker, but was allowed $5,300 for his 1980 Monte Carlo, six, no air, 26K miles. My sister and her husband wanted it but couldn't pay that much so Dad traded it in and a guy about six blocks away bought it, and he had it for several years after we did. He also had a '79 or '80 El Camino as I recall.

    Dad always dealt at Dart Chevrolet-Cadillac, 15 S. Water St., Greenville, PA. The '84 would have been his sixth new car (bought one used there too many years before). I bought two new cars there myself--my first two new ones. They closed in '91 after 55 years--well, they sold out then. Now, the only dealers in town are a Ford dealer and a Chrysler-Dodge dealer.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,051
    Mom's Monte Carlo was dark gray over silver, where the hood, roof, and pillars were the gray and the sides and trunk were silver. Its interior was burgundy cloth, and it had the 55/45 seats. For wheels, it just had the cheap, standard hubcaps, and I think 205/75/R14 tires.

    It also had the tilt wheel and cruise, and the stereo had the little 5-band equalizer. Oh, and it had pinstripes. Dunno if they were standard when you got 2-tone paint or not.

    It was a pretty sharp looking car in its day, but I don't think anyone ever thought to take a picture of it when it was newer. I don't think I ever took a picture of it directly, although after it got wrecked, I had my grandmother take a picture of it with me hanging out the window, fake blood spilling down the side, like I was dead. She protested, but took it anyway. It was a pretty bad pic, but I'll have to see if I can dig it up.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    I can exactly picture that Monte, andre. Seems like the full wheel covers were rarely seen on '86-88 Montes. My '81 and '82 had full wheel covers (different style than the '86) but my folks' '80 and '84 both had Rally Wheels. I believe we've discussed how I really like the 'checkerboard' wheels offered from '81 to '88, although I remember that you're not crazy about them.

    I'm late posting this, but your Dad had a '62 Corvette and a '65 Impala SS? Two of my very favorite '60's Chevrolets, for absolute certain!
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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    Yeah, same with my parents. Mom had the '57 Plymouth, '59 Rambler, and '66 Catalina convertible before I was born.

    Dad had more than a few cool cars; 1965, 1967, and 1970 Mustangs, a 1970 Torino GT(with shaker hood and Laser Stripes), and a 1986 Mark VII LSC.

    As for nostalgia and cars, sometimes the memories do match up with the actual experience. My wife and I like driving my 1975 2002 as much if not more than her 2009 328i. The only thing that keeps us from driving it more than we already do is its lack of A/C.

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  • newengland1newengland1 Member Posts: 4
    American cars were great back in the day. Now the asian cars are the most reliable. Like toyota, honda, and hyundai. The japanese technology is wayyyy ahead of the americans.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    edited January 2013
    If you like Consumer Reports--and I'm not a fan, honestly--check out the Feb. issue. Stay away from Hyundai Sonata Turbo and Hybrid, very unreliable according to them. I don't have the issue, but I think they actually rated the unloved Malibu Eco above the the Sonata Hybrid. Some late-model Hondas have had trans and oil consumption issues too BTW.
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Late model? What years? I thought those were a decade old by now.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    I believe it was dieselone talking recently about his Dad's '09 Accord with oil consumption issues. Pretty late-model in my book.
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But trans? 04 Ody got the beefed up trans from the Ridgelines.

    The frequency of complaints went way down. Sure they exist but there are far fewer complaints than Dodge, for example.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    We've been through this before, but there are over 2K comments on Honda Odyssey trans issues on edmunds. A lot are the 2005 and newer (the model year my coworker had a complete meltdown of his). Although some here say that's not a good bellwether, others on the same GM forum said that 78 posts about a GM air conditioner on the Enclave meant there was a major problem! ;)
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  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I believe it was dieselone talking recently about his Dad's '09 Accord with oil consumption issues. Pretty late-model in my book.



    It was me and I'd agree. Don't know if those issues are corrected with the new Accord, but the previous v6 models with VCM can develop oil burning issues as my dad's has. He basically blew an engine at 80K miles. Honda covered it for him, but it appears it's still burning oil. (He's not the type to check the oil, so he basically let it run out. Plus it had plug fouling issues prior to the engine failure).

    From the research I've done. The oil burning issue with Honda's 3.5 seems to affect the Accord more than any other vehicle and then it seems to be those cars that are driven in a manor where the VCM is most active (my dad drive nearly 30k/yr). The general theory seems to be the minivans and SUVs simply can't run with the cylinders shut down as often.

    Basically we're still talking small numbers of problems as most Accords (80% or so) don't have the v6.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    We've been through this before, but there are over 2K comments on Honda Odyssey trans issues on edmunds. A lot are the 2005 and newer (the model year my coworker had a complete meltdown of his). Although some here say that's not a good bellwether, others on the same GM forum said that 78 posts about a GM air conditioner on the Enclave meant there was a major problem! ;)

    I just don't believe an Edmund's forum is an accurate sample of data. Okay 2000 posts which are likely from a few hundred different posters on a vehicle that's sold probably 700+k since '05 and has over 48k posts overall. I doubt GM has a vehicle with anywhere near that many posts.

    Here's some scientific data for you;)

    Odyssey: 2400 trans posts out of 48,699 total posts or basically 5%
    GMC Acadia: 449 trans problem posts of 3449 total or 13%. I guess the Acadia has a higher percentage of trans problems;)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    edited January 2013
    As if total number of posts about the model in general has anything to do with anything. You know that. ;)

    I think over 2K posts about a problem can't be sloughed off, either, though.
    I was told here I shouldn't slough off 78 comments. ;)
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  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    As if total number of posts about the model in general has anything to do with anything. You know that. ;)

    I know what I posted is meaningless, that was my point.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    there are over 2K comments on Honda Odyssey trans issues on edmunds

    Two things...

    First, the Dodge threads are also over 2k comments for trans issues.

    Second, 2003 and prior Odys indeed had a high frequency of problems, and I bet the majority of those posts are for older vans.

    They're not perfect, but they're much better than before.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,930
    No one questions the Dodges having trans issues, only the Hondas. ;)
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was skeptical when I heard about the Ridgeline upgrade, too, but then the ratings steadily improved from 2004 and on.

    The problem now is different - they're ugly! :D
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Member Posts: 181
    There was a serious problem with complete transmission failure in all V-6 equipped Hondas and Acuras built between 1999 and 2004. Honda Odysseys and Acura TLs were the worst, probably because they put the most strain on the transmission.

    This flaw (which, if I recall correctly, involved insufficient lubrication of a key component), was corrected after 2004. But 2005-07 Odysseys did have problems with the torque converter, which can be solved with a software reflash.

    The oil consumption issues are with the variable-displacement V-6s. It is my understanding that there was a flaw in the castings for the cylinders that leads to high oil consumption.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    They're not perfect, but they're much better than before.

    And the Odyssey is good at being what it's suppose to be, am minivan. If only GM or Ford could have made a minivan remotely as nice. Ford's last minivan wasn't reliable, wasn't good looking, and was nasty on the inside too.

    GM hasn't been much better. The parents of my daughter's best friend have an 08 or so Uplander and I've been in it and see it all the time. YUCK! Only one reason to buy one of those is price IMO. Probably why they're not made anymore.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford's was safe, though. Their real problem was rust.

    GM built the Lambdas instead, a strong effort. Not a van, but at least a good vehicle resulted.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    GM built the Lambdas instead, a strong effort. Not a van, but at least a good vehicle resulted.

    True, I read originally GM considered a minivan variant off the lambda platform.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Ford's was safe, though. Their real problem was rust.

    Yeah, I know someone that had a Windstar under the rear axle/frame rust recall. His was so bad Ford bought the van from him instead of trying to fix it.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    As if total number of posts about the model in general has anything to do with anything. You know that.

    Yet you (or somebody here) is always citing "how many" posts there are about Hondas.

    So are we all agreeing once and for all that the number of complaint posts on any vehicle is not really evidence of much?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    There was a serious problem with complete transmission failure in all V-6 equipped Hondas and Acuras built between 1999 and 2004. Honda Odysseys and Acura TLs were the worst, probably because they put the most strain on the transmission.

    Well my Acura TL was built in 2004 and is at 130K with no transmission problems. But it is an '05 model.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    GM built the Lambdas instead, a strong effort. Not a van, but at least a good vehicle resulted.

    I've driven a Traverse as a rental. I'm sure it wasn't a very high line model, but I was unimpressed. It was large yet seemed not to have a ton of storage for its size (perhaps I'm used to our older Odyssey). The dash and door plastics were chintzy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's the cheapest model, and rental grade at that. I wouldn't read too much in to that experience.

    My buddy just got an Enclave and it's a real nice ride for its class.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2013
    The "Windstalls" had a poor reliability overall back in the day when I was shopping. (link)

    Can't believe that Chrysler is trying to redefine a signature feature of the minivan.

    "Chrysler Group LLC says it will continue to produce "people carriers" for the Dodge and Chrysler brands at its minivan factory in Windsor, but CEO Sergio Marchionne said only one will have sliding doors.

    "We're going to be present with both brands in the people-carrier business. (But) we're only going to have one with a set of sliding doors," he told reporters at the North American International Auto Show. "Both of them will come out of Windsor."

    Chrysler to tweak minivan design (Detroit News)

    I don't care how stunning gull-wings doors are. They won't work in my garage. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I can't believe the people who invented it are moving away from the winning formula. There are really only 3 major competitors and each does pretty good volume.

    Power sliding doors are a gift from above. They're my favorite feature by far, and you'd have to give that up.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I can't believe the people who invented it are moving away from the winning formula. There are really only 3 major competitors and each does pretty good volume.

    SUVs have really marginalized minivans. GM and Ford completely exited the segment, Hyundai and Kia are half out now. Toyota and Honda still build them but I don't see them marketed much. And Nissan...well, they're Nissan. ;)

    There's actually 4 major competitors, even though the Mazda5 is smaller...and they don't market it much either, sales of that here are just gravy.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Power sliding doors are a gift from above. They're my favorite feature by far, and you'd have to give that up.

    I agree, cannot imagine anyone buying a mini-van without them. I did not realize they still built mini-vans that do not have sliding doors.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW the Caravan outsells the Durango about 3.5 to 1.

    It's actually Dodge's best selling car by a long shot (excluding pickups, which are now Rams anyway).

    Town & Country is #2 for Chrysler.

    They'd be crazy to mess with them too much.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    They'd be crazy to mess with them too much.

    Yeah...so? What's your point? :shades:
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