I try to buy American made products whenever possible. I buy only American brand cars anymore, because I have had better luck with them ( I owned two Nissans, and one Toyota that gave substantial troubles after 50K miles), and because I want to do my small part in keeping any more US jobs from being outsourced. I am personally not very impacted by jobs going overseas, because I am retired and financially secure, but I have kids and grandkids who may not be so lucky if more good jobs keep going to Asia. Younger people should take a good look at the ramifications of buying foreign products....unless they think they might be happy working for Wal-Mart for $7 an hour someday.
Keep twisting, you are showing your lack of reading ability. I laid out my preferences. Has nothing to do with hating any country. It has to do with loving the country that gave me the opportunity to succeed. I want the USA to remain strong for my children and grandchildren. It will not be strong if we send all the good jobs to far off lands.
So, why would you be perfectly happy to buy ML320 (a German vehicle) that is made in South America? I'm confused.
I have known that from the start. Again you do not read the whole post. Only what you would like to twist into something that suits you. Besides some of my ancestors came from Germany a couple hundred years ago. So it would be better to send the profit to someone I share DNA with, than a country I have no roots in. You have already stated you have no loyalty to any country or any company, so that is how you and I are much different.
it seems you would be just as much home in Mexico or Canada as you are in the USA. Right?
Sure I could be happy in Mexico. I leased a home in Rosarito for a year and loved it. The poverty made me sad. I do not begrudge them getting good jobs from our automakers. Of the thousands of foreign owned factories in Mexico, Japan is second to the USA. Only 22% are automotive factories. A large share of the vehicles mfg in Mexico are sold in Mexico. Ever wonder why you see so many VW bugs and Suburbans down there. Both are built there.
Yes I would rather live in Mexico or Canada than Japan. So I would rather have them look after my money. I will wait on Canada until after Global Warming kicks in and they become a bit more tropical.
It is always good to see the voice of reason and logic in an otherwise cloudy thread. The point that many here do not understand is the word TRY. We know you cannot find a lot of things made in the USA. To twist that fact around to say you should not worry about anything you buy is not thinking of the USA first. Those that are citizens are supposed to pledge their allegiance to the the United States or America. Where did that allegiance go to? We did it every morning when I went to school.
tying allegiance to your country to buying "Made in the USA" products is where the logic falls apart.
I love my country as much as the next guy and more than some guys, but that does not mean that I am a "blind Patriot" and revolve my world around making supposedly patriotic purchases.
The world has shrunk in the last 50 years; not literally of course but figuratively.
And just like some idiotic emotions like racism have faded over time, "over the top" patriotism feelings which were generated by WWII have also faded.
It's not that Americans today love American less - it's that they know that America is just one of many countries in the world which do good things and there are better ways to spend your time than talking bad about other countries.
If American cars stood head and shoulders above the rest on quality, customer service, and longevity, clearly indicated by owner polls and statistics, then I could see a reason for Americans to only buy American cars.
>If foreign brand cars stood head and shoulders above the rest on quality, customer service, and longevity, clearly indicated by owner polls and statistics, then I could see a reason for Americans to only buy foreign brand cars.
But they don't. Good test. And that's what the point has been. All car brands have problems at times. So open-minded shopping will let you pick the car and the dealership who'll price and service for your needs.
is superior to the others, I will always try to buy American...but, as vehicle quality went rapidly downhill in the 70s and 80s (from which we are STILL trying to recover 25 years later...also, whether it was poor design or unionized workers is immaterial, as the finished product was junk), the Japanese came in and simply made them better...they continue to have the reputation of making them better, also the USA is gaining, but we are still playing defense...
Once we Americans felt screwed by the US automakers, for whatever reason, they have to earn our trust back one at a time, and, when you read about poorly designed doors on the 2006 Explorer, it still makes you wonder if there really is any quality control, or logical design, at companies like Ford...
We simply do NOT assume that American products are quality products anymore...and that is their fault, not ours, we are only the consumers who bought their junk and said, "never again"...
Blindly buying American is simply not the smart thing to do anymore...
>Blindly buying American is simply not the smart thing to do anymore...
In that case you wouldn't buy foreign brand either. Using the same logic..., how was the 1982 Toyota? the 1982 Accord? You're going back 25 years for US built complaints. And there were problems that weren't fixed in some car lines and brands then. But times have changed.
No longer is the 1982 Datsun, Honda, Toyota an econobox with a manual transmission and a small motor with no power steering or power brakes the idea to have to save gas as it was back in that era. CR was delighted with the thin metal, light cars, sitting on the narrowest, smallest tires they could put on. Some cars even looked like a toy sitting on a different base (frame) because of the size disconnect. Sort of like the early Toyota vans sitting on a frame meant for a small auto--top heavy in that case.
Those cars had a different buying purpose. Then the cars evolved into larger and better equiped cars to keep up with the buyers and to keep the buyer buying up in size.
Let's compare cars within the last, oh say, 10 years. Nineteen ninety-eight and up? Overall JD Powers and others show there is little difference in the flaw rate in the cars when looking at mass market cars.
Just as a sidenote on early-1980 Japanese econo boxes:
I had a 1980 Datsun (they had just started calling themselves Nissan so both names were on the car in various locations) 200SX manual tranny.
I got bought it from a junk dealer in 1982 when it had been creamed by a large hailstorm. It had 60,000 miles on it at the time. When I traded it in 1991, it had 323,000 miles on the odometer, and I had replaced one clutch and one radiator and nothing else on the car.
So although the Japanese cars from that era were in general cheaply made and not loaded with modern safety equipment, the occasional GEM could be found.
Same as today - there are some American cars and some cars from every country which will go 300,000 miles on the engine - and not just diesels either. Our company delivery truck, a 1995 Chevy Silverado 1500, has 169,000 miles on it and has really had no major repairs.
but, as vehicle quality went rapidly downhill in the 70s and 80s (from which we are STILL trying to recover 25 years later...also, whether it was poor design or unionized workers is immaterial, as the finished product was junk), the Japanese came in and simply made them better...
After WWII, most anything with a "Made in Japan" was avoided by Americans because of its poor quality. Don't know how it happened, but American Quality/Statistics/Management expert Deming went to Japan in late 40's or early 50's to help them improve their products.
Japan embraced Deming and followed his teachings precisely. Deming probably had more to do with Japan achieving superiority in products than anyone else. US car companies ignored Deming, and another quality expert, Juran, for decades. In mid 1980's, American companies started getting interested in Deming and Juran, but only half-heartedly. Perhaps American car companies got serious about quality in 90's, and now they are playing catch-up with the Japanese. Ironic how the expertise in quality management was American, and the Japanese listened and adopted, but American car companies ignored.
Thanks for the balance in your post. The Datsun probably didn't have power windows and power windows, etc. And it was maintained as far as oil changes and lubes. The more extras on a car the more likely a failure problem. AND they served exactly the purpose they were sold for--gas economical transportation after the 70s and the oil scares.
You probably are in an area that doesn't have lots of salt on the roads or salt spray from the ocean.
But US companies ignored the small car market after the Corvair and afew others. Small cars were heavy versions of big cars for US makers like the Falcon. The imports filled the market need.
Coworker had a B210 all rusted through, trunk and floors, that he drove into the ground to and from work. Basic car.
Another coworker had a basic Corolla from the 80s that he sold to someone on the street. He used it for commute to work, period.
In that case you wouldn't buy foreign brand either. Using the same logic..., how was the 1982 Toyota? the 1982 Accord?
I don't think you want to go there. I knew several people in college and after (circa late 90s) that were driving 1982 Accords while my folk's '83 Reliant had long given up the ghost (in the 80s). Do you want to compare a Toyota Tercel or Corolla to a Chevette? Or you could compare a mid-80s MR2 to a Fiero...
I agree that the "reliability gap" is closing, my later-90s Ford product was great for 10 years and 150k. I also like the "domestic" manufacturers are making cars that the mass market finds desirable and competitive, like the Saturn Aura and then Ford Fusion.
The "quality gap" is based more on perception and may or may not be closing as rapidly. The look and feel of components on some vehicles is questionable and the sensation from activating the controls is unsatisfying. Even this is improving, however, even in some small car segments.
I personally am sad because I feel the "domestics" don't make something that fits my needs and wants. I think I am a niche market at best, but there are other brands that meet those desires.
But US companies ignored the small car market after the Corvair and afew others. Small cars were heavy versions of big cars for US makers like the Falcon. The imports filled the market need.
Coworker had a B210 all rusted through, trunk and floors, that he drove into the ground to and from work. Basic car.
Another coworker had a basic Corolla from the 80s that he sold to someone on the street. He used it for commute to work, period.
Yes. American "small" cars were heavy, numb and poorly engineered in 80's. Remember test driving small car 4-cyl offerings from GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota and Honda in 1984. Until that time, I had only one "foreign" car, a 1977 VW.
The American brands were significantly behind the Japanese in 1984 in quality, fit and finish, paint, handling, feel, etc. Chose a 1984 Honda Prelude and had it till 1998 and 195,000 miles and easily sold it used. Added a 86 Honda Accord in 1986 and had till 247K miles, and an 86 Chevy Suburban and had till 80K+ miles in 2002.
All 3 of these vehicles were garaged and well taken care of. The Suburban was generally reliable and served me very well for my utility needs. BUT, having 2 Hondas and a Chevy side by side for many years clearly illustrated the superiority of engineering of Honda over Chevrolet of their vintages. Hondas fit, finish, paint, interior, smooth trouble-free engines/transmissions, good handling, no rust were its main features. Paint was clean and shiny until cars were sold used. Both Hondas were also tight and rattle-free until sold used.
On the other hand, the Suburban, in spite of it being garaged and having far less miles, rusted out in lower doors, fenders, and the hood and roof paint deteriorated badly, developed a lot of rattles, etc. Some things the Suburban failed on that the Hondas didn't - radiator, various power window fixes, AC compressor replacement, rear taillight bulbs, etc.
Unless you owned and drove Japanese and American car(s) side by side, you could not understand the superiority of Japanese engineering.
I read your post and see that you compared a truck, and that's what the Suburban is, with two sedans. The Suburban was indeed a truck and they had rusting. However a friend's 95 Civic was rusting merrily away when she got rid of it. That showed up after less than 10 years and it was washed regularly.
I think the trucks weren't as rust engineered as well as cars were through that era.
Taillight bulbs? Come on. Radiators do give out. Although not a happy problem, they are easily replaced by a do-it-yourselfer. Compressor? Not good. Rattles=truck base.
First I am not talking bad about other countries. I am focusing on a growing loss of good jobs in this country. We have done enough to help Japan. Time to move on to more needy countries. The person I have this debate with would like to make it a case of hating foreign, loving domestic. Yet as he pointed out you can buy any number of foreign nameplates with over 50% US made content.
When you bought your TCH did you say I want one of the ones built in the USA? If not why not? The Hybrid Camry is built here and in Japan. If you did not care, where it was built, that is my problem with your line of thinking.
You have children that will one day need a job, unless you are wealthy. I have grandchildren that will need a job. I dread the day they can only get a service job.
5 years of college and you see him in McDonald's asking "Do you want Fries with that"?
"The growing loss of jobs in this country" is just a myth.
Unemployment is at almost an all-time low.
I bought my TCH before they started selling the Kentucky ones, not that it would matter. As I have stated in previous posts, there are many thousands of "Americans" in the Toyota food chain.
And getting a good job in America is not hard. A good education and a fair amount of ambition and determination is all it takes.
If someone has five years of college and it asking if you want fries with that, then there is something wrong with their ambition and determination - or else it's just a second job.
I've got two degrees and I had second jobs as late as into my late 30s just to help improve my family's lot.
In early 1996, I was looking for a used car in St Louis. Went to a dealer and test drove 1992 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. The car was, cosmetically, in pristine condition. It was only 4 years old but with 130K miles on it. There was one problem with the car in that the transmission felt weird. But the dealer was willing to provide some warranty on it. The listed price on that car was only $1500. So, I pull up after the drive, into a spot next to an old Accord hatchback. It was a 1984 model, had 216K miles on it and was listed at $2000.
I promised the sales person that to show up the next day. Well, I did. We revisited the Oldsmobile. The Accord wasn’t parked next to it. I asked him if it was taken for a test drive. He said it was already sold. My previous cars at the time were a 1982 Supra (bought used) that served me well, and had a 1992 Camry which was also bought used that gave me a few minor troubles but nothing major (which shouldn’t be expected given it wasn’t an old car like my Supra was). That’s about as far as my car buying experience went. But the Olds deal failed. The dealer was reluctant to do much on the transmission issue. He was giving me a 30-day warranty. If the car hadn’t exhibited weirdness with the transmission, I would have been fine with that. But I wasn’t about to discover something on the 31st day while knowing there is a potential issue.
Eventually, I landed with a used Corolla GT-S coupe which had 92K miles on it. Paid $2K, drove for two years and 40K miles, and sold it to an acquaintance for $2K who was still driving it when I met him four years later and the car had 183K miles on it.
After the Corolla, it was time for my first new car in late 1997. Not being a closed minded guy, a variety of automakers got my attention. From GM, Intrigue was the next big thing to revive the company. It was supposed to be a GM car like no other in the past. I didn’t care for Taurus. To me, it was simply a rental car that my dog seemed to like more than I ever did. Maxima was an option but two Nissan dealerships that I visited had big time issues. Especially one, who I handled to my satisfaction. VW Passat and the all new Accord ended up being the finalists. And I drove home the Accord, which after 10 years and 178K miles, is everything a car should be.
I also considered 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix at the time. But I got inside the car, and got out disgusted at the way things were designed and assembled. I wanted to see and feel quality for every dollar of my $25K budget at the time. It might have moved a few other people at the time, but didn’t work for me.
The experience with first Honda landed me with another, and another, and now I have a 2006 TL that gets parked next to the Accord. So, I have now driven over 300K miles in my Honda/Acura vehicles and I can see why people associate quality with that company.
It didn’t matter if my Accord was imported or built in Ohio (which it is). Quality mattered to me, and the car delivered. In my early days on Edmunds going back years, I was defending American built cars, because my Accord is one outstanding example. And it didn’t matter that my TL is designed for and built exclusively in the USA (and Canada). After all is said and done, if Honda is selling the car anywhere else, it actually would be an export out of the USA! And we talk about trade deficits. How is importing domestically badge vehicles helping us there? But there are foreign badged vehicles that are actually being exported from the USA. Honda has been exporting MDX to Japan, from the USA, and Odyssey and I think Element too. Are they imports? Hell no, they are “exports”.
But US companies ignored the small car market after the Corvair and afew others. Small cars were heavy versions of big cars for US makers like the Falcon. The imports filled the market need.
And they still do. Ford, is probably the best of the three. And it is not that automatically every foreign make gets a higher rank in my opinion. The problem for Ford and others is, that there simply are better choices out there for me. If I were looking for compact car today, here would be my top five in order of appeal: 1 Honda Civic: offers a balance between ride and handling with a drive train designed specifically for the car and with a purpose in mind. 2 Mazda3: best looking and handling car, with overall performance, and a close second to Civic. 3 Ford Focus: Mazda is simply better. Ford did an exceptional job when it launched Focus, but since then left it to keep running. It would help to actually work towards at least beating the midsize cars in fuel economy as well. 4 VW Jetta: A premium compact car that does a lot of things well. 5 Toyota Corolla: Well, the old, reliable, dependable and sense-depriving fuel miser
Explain it to me again, how is buying ML320 (German) built in Brazil is helping the USA more than it would if you were buying Acura MDX or GMC Arcadia?
That has disintegrated your claims about “buy American to help America”. But it isn’t about “buying American” but about “don’t buy Asian”. After all, you seem to be perfectly fine with “buy European”.
The colors run deeper than red, white and blue, don’t they? And if you could read properly, you would have figured out I already knew that. There was a question I asked you couple of days ago, for that reason. Don’t make excuses and hide behind curtain. If you don’t have issue with you buying a German vehicle to support your ancestry, why do you have issue with people buying Asian for their quality, feel, ancestry or whatever? Go with your choices! Don’t whine telling others that they should help America etc. It looks ridiculous.
And if you truly understand the need to help the DNA’s origin (which might be rooted somewhere in Africa), you should be perfectly fine with Japanese Americans buying Japanese products, Korean Americans buying Korean products, German American buying German products, British Americans buying British products, Indian Americans buying Fords since the company has sent plenty of jobs there, even accounting! And that has nothing to do with UAW (which is simply an excuse bought by people who a blinded by badge).
While people like me will continue to enjoy the best there is available in America. In a way or another, it does contribute to America’s economy. It would be dumb of me to be partial to some countries over others for whatever reasons. I’m not going to buy Mexican built stuff simply because I like the beaches in Mexico. That’s my bottom line.
j Unemployment is at almost an all-time low.TrueAs long as you will work for low wages. I feel so fortunate to have done my 45 years of work when the middle class was the largest part of the US population. The gap is widening at an alarming rate.
"The growing loss of jobs in this country" is just a myth. False
Living in the number one city for growth it would be hard for you to relate to someone in Detroit or Pittsburgh. I think it would shock you to know how many college grads are not even on the unemployment roles any longer or have taken low paying jobs to feed themselves. The only area that pays well and is hurting for people are the skilled trades. Too many people coming out of college want clean jobs. So the dirty work like roofing, sheet rocking and cement finishing jobs get picked up by, should we say those that may not be here legally.
If someone has five years of college and it asking if you want fries with that, then there is something wrong with their ambition and determination - or else it's just a second job.
Explain it to me again, how is buying ML320 (German) built in Brazil is helping the USA more than it would if you were buying Acura MDX or GMC Arcadia?
The ML320 CDI is built in ALABAMA. Northerners call that so America.
Michigan unemployment rate is 6.9 percent right now. That's the highest of any state right now. Probably a result of the Big 3 falling down.
Pennsylvania is at 4.2 percent, not much over their all-time low of 3.8 percent set in March of this year. Pittsburgh is at 4.1 right now. Very low.
Sure, the auto and steel industry have taken some hits. But that's just a couple of sectors out of hundreds.
With the overall USA unemployment rate at 4.5 percent, I think complaints about lost jobs are kinda misplaced.
A number of college grads have ALWAYS had to take jobs out of their majors, in many cases below their level of education. That is not NEW by any means.
Even if more of today's jobs are low wage, that's just the nature of the cycle we are in. People adjust.
Those issues would not be fixed just by buying more American-made cars.
3 Ford Focus: Mazda is simply better. Ford did an exceptional job when it launched Focus, but since then left it to keep running. It would help to actually work towards at least beating the midsize cars in fuel economy as well.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Ford totally botched the US launch of the Focus; it was one of the things we studied in grad school of how not to do it. The recalls and TSBs for the first year models was a throwback to the 80s.
Once they got all the bugs worked out that should've been taken care of before it hit the showroom, it was a great car. The design is good, the utility is excellent, the driving characteristics are fun and the reliability is good with a proven design.
This kind of typifies the old way of doing things...great program poor execution. Given the successful launch of the Fusion and Edge, Ford learned too.
The car itself was refreshing compact to have come from one of the big three. TSBs and recalls that followed were another story, more telling of quality control issues with the company than the car itself.
Taillight bulbs? Come on. Radiators do give out. Although not a happy problem, they are easily replaced by a do-it-yourselfer. Compressor? Not good. Rattles=truck base.
What you failed to realize is all the things he listed as going bad on his domestic were things that never went bad on his Honda. Small, minor, or indifferent, all of the items listed didn't just "give out" in the Honda.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
>Small, minor, or indifferent, all of the items listed didn't just "give out" in the Honda.
Are you the person who posted that Honda parts don't wear out. I think I saw the local Honda factory picking up used Hondas at the junkyard the other day. They said they wanted them to put the parts into new Hondas "Since the parts never wear out."
> things he listed as going bad on his domestic were things that never went bad on his Honda
Let's compare cars within the last, oh say, 10 years. Nineteen ninety-eight and up? Overall JD Powers and others show there is little difference in the flaw rate in the cars when looking at mass market cars.
Tell that to the Honda owner who has to spend money on two less problems over the first 7 years of ownership than someone that bought a let's say... a domestic product. Are 2 problems over almost 100,000 miles insignificant? I don't know you tell me?
Problem 1 could be a $1,400+ transmission rebuild. Problem 2 could be a $1,000 A/C compressor replacement.
I'll take the problem-free Honda thank you very much!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Head Gasket failure rates for multiple years, all the way through 1999 models at least. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Auto tranny failures were more common than not before 70K.
AC /A/C failures were common at the 36.1 K mile mark, or 3 years and 1 day, whichever comes first.
O2 sensor failures O-ring gas tank leak failures Window molding glue oozing out everywhere. windshields cracking in half due to structural design flaws. Faulty belts that broke or burned due to other issues... Snapping belts too... Corrosion issues with battery, terminals, starter, starter wires and cables... parking brake only lasts about 4 years or 42k. Poor fuel economy and poor performance not living up to specs. rattles in the back, side, front, all over. at 60K it rattles and squeaks and makes noises like a car that you'd expect was 25 years old or had 400,000 miles on it. The interior dashboard came unraveled at the seams. The ABS was primitive Engine light issues. Faulty fuel pumps at 1 day old. The list goes on and on... I can only remember so much "off-hand."
I checked with other unfortunate Neon owners of the time in the late 90's and early 2000's and all had similar results and problems.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I think the assumption that doing your part is somehow encouraging domestic brands to employ Americans to build their product is seriously flawed. Why would they do that? The reality is, all they need is a buyer like you who would be blindly loyal. They get their $$$, the bottom line to any business. Do you think any business out there exists so that they can guarantee younger people better than $7/hour? That said, if you support American brands, why do you detest Walmart? It is about as American as a corporation really gets these days.
The bottom line is, the big 3 aren’t employing Americans to do the job. Now, when I say that, an immediate reaction would be that they are trying to escape UAW. And UAW is to be blamed for it. Well, aren’t UAW members “Americans”? If you can choose to do their part, why can’t these companies take care of these “Americans” that you worry about?
But, it is about time we stopped blaming UAW for everything. There are a lot of jobs that these companies have outsourced. It isn’t news anymore when a company outsources high paying IT jobs to India and like. While doing that, I believe Ford became the first company to outsource accounting jobs to India as well. Now, how exactly does that figure into UAW woes? The fact is, these companies couldn’t care less about others. It would be stupid of any business to do that. They are not in to do social work. They are all about their bottom line.
And when you choose to become slave of a corporation, you get what you deserve being taken for granted. Unfortunately, in the process you promote their approach instead of asking keep the jobs here. That’s why I’m here.
Please don’t complain about foreign automakers. Their motivation isn’t any different from the big-3. Their bottom line is the same. At least in the process, they are helping people find jobs. Guess what, as a consultant, I have a better chance to be employed by a foreign brand than I do with GM or Ford or Chrysler.
It is one thing to choose products based on experience. Another to support a business with blinders on.
Gee, I hate to spoil reality but my 00 Accord with 135K on it still has virtually all the original parts. It has had the brakes replaced along the way and doesn't have the original tires..... It does have all the original bulbs except the right headlight and does need one dash bulb now. It has the original clutch, starter, alternator and battery. It's my third Accord and it is typical of my experience. It was made in Ohio.
Current Ody is too new to me to have a verdict. My 02 Ody was way better than my original minivan but since my original was the notorious Windstall this was not difficult. The Ody is not the bulletproof vehicle that the Accord is but it's not badly behind either. I DID have to replace the battery on that around 95K.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Do you find it more desirable to buy a car built in Japan than oil coming from Nigeria or Kuwait or Saudi Arabia? American workers get a percentage of that pie. I do see many posters saying it is deplorable to put Saudi oil in their Lexus from Japan.
>Tell that to the Honda owner who has to spend money on two less problems over the first 7 years of ownership than someone
You mean the problems that are likely a light bulb burned out (that never happens on a Honda :P ) You mean the problem like a rattle in the interior (that never happens on a Honda :P )
I don't mean to imply that Honda parts don't ever "wear out" or give out. I'm just implying through fact that Honda parts last much longer and don't fail as often early in life "prematurely" as domestic branded parts.
Mopar makes a lot of money off of replacement parts.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I don't mean to imply that Honda parts don't ever "wear out" or give out. I'm just implying through fact that Honda parts last much longer and don't fail as often early in life "prematurely" as domestic branded parts.
Mopar makes a lot of money of replacement parts.
Tell that to my 2 GM cars where this is the non-disposable repair list. (I consider bulbs, batteries, wipers, any fluid, brakes and tires to be disposible because they should be replaced periodically)
1: $7 coolant temperature sensor 2: alternator
Not bad for 2 vehicles that had a combined 270k miles on them. I think most problems are avoided if you simply take care of your car. Change the oil every 3-5k miles. Rotate your tires. Get a tune-up every couple of years. Have a mechanic you trust just look it over every once in a while. Most cars will last well over 100k miles if you take care of them.
(I consider bulbs, batteries, wipers, any fluid, brakes and tires to be disposible because they should be replaced periodically)
Again, maintenance means little to poorly designed or put together parts:
Should I change the bulbs every 2 years, or every 10? Never had a bulb go out on my Honda, nor my parents Toyota while I was driving it.
Batteries... shouldn't they last at least 50 months these days? Should I be charged to replace my burnt timing belt because the faulty AC compressor burned it up while trying to use it?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I guess when the older vehicle gets to be over 10 years old, I expected to replace the battery in that time. Maybe the special Honda battery really is a small nuke plant.
Again, bulbs eventually burn out. Especially after 10 years. I don't really see an issue here. If it really was a poorly designed vehicle, would it last 10 years and 160k miles without any major mechanical failure? If the engine block was made out of sawdust and chineese newspapers, it would have failed long ago...
Your average Japanese make has as many problems at 7 years old as domestics do in their 1st or 3rd year of existance.
That is an excellent point. I would rather have the problems while the vehicle is under warranty than right after the time limit expires. If you think that Japanese parts are cheaper than domestic parts you need to do some research. I am on my 5th GM vehicle in 19 years and have had very few problems. Nothing like I have had with all the major Japanese brands.
To put it succinctly, I enjoy driving car. But I don't enjoy filling up gas. So, I try to maximize my mileage. Besides, I like it better spending $45 per fill up than the person before me who shelled out $92.51 at a Shell.
I would love to do without oil, but cars are what bring me here! I appreciate cars for their qualities. I haven't found interest in determining quality of gasoline by brand.
Do you really think oil is the only import that provides a piece of pie to Americans? Forget cars being manufactured in the USA employing thousands. Even imported automobiles provide a piece of pie to Americans, who may be employed abroad and of course, within the USA. Koreans aren't sending their transporters to deliver cars to dealership in Korean ships and Korean trucks owned by Koreans who employee only Koreans, and won't use anything but Korean oil and gasoline and diesel for the entire process including energy supply from Korea.
Besides, beyond pursuing my hobbies, I'm not really keen on spending time nitpicking percentages. Its the product that matters to me. When I need gas, I might stop by at a Shell, Exxon, Fina, Valero, Chevron or whatever gas station. It will be a pleasant surprise if I end up meeting a Sheikh there in his custom all-silver Audi A8 to go with his guest palace, and enjoys employing a few Americans in the process.
Comments
So, why would you be perfectly happy to buy ML320 (a German vehicle) that is made in South America? I'm confused.
I have known that from the start. Again you do not read the whole post. Only what you would like to twist into something that suits you. Besides some of my ancestors came from Germany a couple hundred years ago. So it would be better to send the profit to someone I share DNA with, than a country I have no roots in. You have already stated you have no loyalty to any country or any company, so that is how you and I are much different.
it seems you would be just as much home in Mexico or Canada as you are in the USA. Right?
Sure I could be happy in Mexico. I leased a home in Rosarito for a year and loved it. The poverty made me sad. I do not begrudge them getting good jobs from our automakers. Of the thousands of foreign owned factories in Mexico, Japan is second to the USA. Only 22% are automotive factories. A large share of the vehicles mfg in Mexico are sold in Mexico. Ever wonder why you see so many VW bugs and Suburbans down there. Both are built there.
Yes I would rather live in Mexico or Canada than Japan. So I would rather have them look after my money. I will wait on Canada until after Global Warming kicks in and they become a bit more tropical.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
tying allegiance to your country to buying "Made in the USA" products is where the logic falls apart.
I love my country as much as the next guy and more than some guys, but that does not mean that I am a "blind Patriot" and revolve my world around making supposedly patriotic purchases.
The world has shrunk in the last 50 years; not literally of course but figuratively.
And just like some idiotic emotions like racism have faded over time, "over the top" patriotism feelings which were generated by WWII have also faded.
It's not that Americans today love American less - it's that they know that America is just one of many countries in the world which do good things and there are better ways to spend your time than talking bad about other countries.
If American cars stood head and shoulders above the rest on quality, customer service, and longevity, clearly indicated by owner polls and statistics, then I could see a reason for Americans to only buy American cars.
But that's not the case.
But they don't. Good test. And that's what the point has been. All car brands have problems at times. So open-minded shopping will let you pick the car and the dealership who'll price and service for your needs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Once we Americans felt screwed by the US automakers, for whatever reason, they have to earn our trust back one at a time, and, when you read about poorly designed doors on the 2006 Explorer, it still makes you wonder if there really is any quality control, or logical design, at companies like Ford...
We simply do NOT assume that American products are quality products anymore...and that is their fault, not ours, we are only the consumers who bought their junk and said, "never again"...
Blindly buying American is simply not the smart thing to do anymore...
In that case you wouldn't buy foreign brand either. Using the same logic..., how was the 1982 Toyota? the 1982 Accord? You're going back 25 years for US built complaints. And there were problems that weren't fixed in some car lines and brands then. But times have changed.
No longer is the 1982 Datsun, Honda, Toyota an econobox with a manual transmission and a small motor with no power steering or power brakes the idea to have to save gas as it was back in that era. CR was delighted with the thin metal, light cars, sitting on the narrowest, smallest tires they could put on. Some cars even looked like a toy sitting on a different base (frame) because of the size disconnect. Sort of like the early Toyota vans sitting on a frame meant for a small auto--top heavy in that case.
Those cars had a different buying purpose. Then the cars evolved into larger and better equiped cars to keep up with the buyers and to keep the buyer buying up in size.
Let's compare cars within the last, oh say, 10 years. Nineteen ninety-eight and up? Overall JD Powers and others show there is little difference in the flaw rate in the cars when looking at mass market cars.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I had a 1980 Datsun (they had just started calling themselves Nissan so both names were on the car in various locations) 200SX manual tranny.
I got bought it from a junk dealer in 1982 when it had been creamed by a large hailstorm. It had 60,000 miles on it at the time. When I traded it in 1991, it had 323,000 miles on the odometer, and I had replaced one clutch and one radiator and nothing else on the car.
So although the Japanese cars from that era were in general cheaply made and not loaded with modern safety equipment, the occasional GEM could be found.
Same as today - there are some American cars and some cars from every country which will go 300,000 miles on the engine - and not just diesels either. Our company delivery truck, a 1995 Chevy Silverado 1500, has 169,000 miles on it and has really had no major repairs.
After WWII, most anything with a "Made in Japan" was avoided by Americans because of its poor quality. Don't know how it happened, but American Quality/Statistics/Management expert Deming went to Japan in late 40's or early 50's to help them improve their products.
Japan embraced Deming and followed his teachings precisely. Deming probably had more to do with Japan achieving superiority in products than anyone else. US car companies ignored Deming, and another quality expert, Juran, for decades. In mid 1980's, American companies started getting interested in Deming and Juran, but only half-heartedly. Perhaps American car companies got serious about quality in 90's, and now they are playing catch-up with the Japanese. Ironic how the expertise in quality management was American, and the Japanese listened and adopted, but American car companies ignored.
You probably are in an area that doesn't have lots of salt on the roads or salt spray from the ocean.
But US companies ignored the small car market after the Corvair and afew others. Small cars were heavy versions of big cars for US makers like the Falcon. The imports filled the market need.
Coworker had a B210 all rusted through, trunk and floors, that he drove into the ground to and from work. Basic car.
Another coworker had a basic Corolla from the 80s that he sold to someone on the street. He used it for commute to work, period.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't think you want to go there. I knew several people in college and after (circa late 90s) that were driving 1982 Accords while my folk's '83 Reliant had long given up the ghost (in the 80s). Do you want to compare a Toyota Tercel or Corolla to a Chevette? Or you could compare a mid-80s MR2 to a Fiero...
I agree that the "reliability gap" is closing, my later-90s Ford product was great for 10 years and 150k. I also like the "domestic" manufacturers are making cars that the mass market finds desirable and competitive, like the Saturn Aura and then Ford Fusion.
The "quality gap" is based more on perception and may or may not be closing as rapidly. The look and feel of components on some vehicles is questionable and the sensation from activating the controls is unsatisfying. Even this is improving, however, even in some small car segments.
I personally am sad because I feel the "domestics" don't make something that fits my needs and wants. I think I am a niche market at best, but there are other brands that meet those desires.
Coworker had a B210 all rusted through, trunk and floors, that he drove into the ground to and from work. Basic car.
Another coworker had a basic Corolla from the 80s that he sold to someone on the street. He used it for commute to work, period.
Yes. American "small" cars were heavy, numb and poorly engineered in 80's. Remember test driving small car 4-cyl offerings from GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota and Honda in 1984. Until that time, I had only one "foreign" car, a 1977 VW.
The American brands were significantly behind the Japanese in 1984 in quality, fit and finish, paint, handling, feel, etc. Chose a 1984 Honda Prelude and had it till 1998 and 195,000 miles and easily sold it used. Added a 86 Honda Accord in 1986 and had till 247K miles, and an 86 Chevy Suburban and had till 80K+ miles in 2002.
All 3 of these vehicles were garaged and well taken care of. The Suburban was generally reliable and served me very well for my utility needs. BUT, having 2 Hondas and a Chevy side by side for many years clearly illustrated the superiority of engineering of Honda over Chevrolet of their vintages. Hondas fit, finish, paint, interior, smooth trouble-free engines/transmissions, good handling, no rust were its main features. Paint was clean and shiny until cars were sold used. Both Hondas were also tight and rattle-free until sold used.
On the other hand, the Suburban, in spite of it being garaged and having far less miles, rusted out in lower doors, fenders, and the hood and roof paint deteriorated badly, developed a lot of rattles, etc. Some things the Suburban failed on that the Hondas didn't - radiator, various power window fixes, AC compressor replacement, rear taillight bulbs, etc.
Unless you owned and drove Japanese and American car(s) side by side, you could not understand the superiority of Japanese engineering.
I think the trucks weren't as rust engineered as well as cars were through that era.
Taillight bulbs? Come on. Radiators do give out. Although not a happy problem, they are easily replaced by a do-it-yourselfer. Compressor? Not good. Rattles=truck base.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When you bought your TCH did you say I want one of the ones built in the USA? If not why not? The Hybrid Camry is built here and in Japan. If you did not care, where it was built, that is my problem with your line of thinking.
You have children that will one day need a job, unless you are wealthy. I have grandchildren that will need a job. I dread the day they can only get a service job.
5 years of college and you see him in McDonald's asking "Do you want Fries with that"?
"The growing loss of jobs in this country" is just a myth.
Unemployment is at almost an all-time low.
I bought my TCH before they started selling the Kentucky ones, not that it would matter. As I have stated in previous posts, there are many thousands of "Americans" in the Toyota food chain.
And getting a good job in America is not hard. A good education and a fair amount of ambition and determination is all it takes.
If someone has five years of college and it asking if you want fries with that, then there is something wrong with their ambition and determination - or else it's just a second job.
I've got two degrees and I had second jobs as late as into my late 30s just to help improve my family's lot.
In early 1996, I was looking for a used car in St Louis. Went to a dealer and test drove 1992 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. The car was, cosmetically, in pristine condition. It was only 4 years old but with 130K miles on it. There was one problem with the car in that the transmission felt weird. But the dealer was willing to provide some warranty on it. The listed price on that car was only $1500. So, I pull up after the drive, into a spot next to an old Accord hatchback. It was a 1984 model, had 216K miles on it and was listed at $2000.
I promised the sales person that to show up the next day. Well, I did. We revisited the Oldsmobile. The Accord wasn’t parked next to it. I asked him if it was taken for a test drive. He said it was already sold. My previous cars at the time were a 1982 Supra (bought used) that served me well, and had a 1992 Camry which was also bought used that gave me a few minor troubles but nothing major (which shouldn’t be expected given it wasn’t an old car like my Supra was). That’s about as far as my car buying experience went. But the Olds deal failed. The dealer was reluctant to do much on the transmission issue. He was giving me a 30-day warranty. If the car hadn’t exhibited weirdness with the transmission, I would have been fine with that. But I wasn’t about to discover something on the 31st day while knowing there is a potential issue.
Eventually, I landed with a used Corolla GT-S coupe which had 92K miles on it. Paid $2K, drove for two years and 40K miles, and sold it to an acquaintance for $2K who was still driving it when I met him four years later and the car had 183K miles on it.
After the Corolla, it was time for my first new car in late 1997. Not being a closed minded guy, a variety of automakers got my attention. From GM, Intrigue was the next big thing to revive the company. It was supposed to be a GM car like no other in the past. I didn’t care for Taurus. To me, it was simply a rental car that my dog seemed to like more than I ever did. Maxima was an option but two Nissan dealerships that I visited had big time issues. Especially one, who I handled to my satisfaction. VW Passat and the all new Accord ended up being the finalists. And I drove home the Accord, which after 10 years and 178K miles, is everything a car should be.
I also considered 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix at the time. But I got inside the car, and got out disgusted at the way things were designed and assembled. I wanted to see and feel quality for every dollar of my $25K budget at the time. It might have moved a few other people at the time, but didn’t work for me.
The experience with first Honda landed me with another, and another, and now I have a 2006 TL that gets parked next to the Accord. So, I have now driven over 300K miles in my Honda/Acura vehicles and I can see why people associate quality with that company.
It didn’t matter if my Accord was imported or built in Ohio (which it is). Quality mattered to me, and the car delivered. In my early days on Edmunds going back years, I was defending American built cars, because my Accord is one outstanding example. And it didn’t matter that my TL is designed for and built exclusively in the USA (and Canada). After all is said and done, if Honda is selling the car anywhere else, it actually would be an export out of the USA! And we talk about trade deficits. How is importing domestically badge vehicles helping us there? But there are foreign badged vehicles that are actually being exported from the USA. Honda has been exporting MDX to Japan, from the USA, and Odyssey and I think Element too. Are they imports? Hell no, they are “exports”.
In that case you wouldn't buy foreign brand either. Using the same logic..., how was the 1982 Toyota? the
I might still be driving my '82 Tercel if we hadn't moved and left it behind in '99.
Your point is that cars now are reliable overall? Yeah, I'd agree with that. My other 80's car was ok too but not outstanding mechanically.
And they still do. Ford, is probably the best of the three. And it is not that automatically every foreign make gets a higher rank in my opinion. The problem for Ford and others is, that there simply are better choices out there for me. If I were looking for compact car today, here would be my top five in order of appeal:
1 Honda Civic: offers a balance between ride and handling with a drive train designed specifically for the car and with a purpose in mind.
2 Mazda3: best looking and handling car, with overall performance, and a close second to Civic.
3 Ford Focus: Mazda is simply better. Ford did an exceptional job when it launched Focus, but since then left it to keep running. It would help to actually work towards at least beating the midsize cars in fuel economy as well.
4 VW Jetta: A premium compact car that does a lot of things well.
5 Toyota Corolla: Well, the old, reliable, dependable and sense-depriving fuel miser
That has disintegrated your claims about “buy American to help America”. But it isn’t about “buying American” but about “don’t buy Asian”. After all, you seem to be perfectly fine with “buy European”.
The colors run deeper than red, white and blue, don’t they? And if you could read properly, you would have figured out I already knew that. There was a question I asked you couple of days ago, for that reason. Don’t make excuses and hide behind curtain. If you don’t have issue with you buying a German vehicle to support your ancestry, why do you have issue with people buying Asian for their quality, feel, ancestry or whatever? Go with your choices! Don’t whine telling others that they should help America etc. It looks ridiculous.
And if you truly understand the need to help the DNA’s origin (which might be rooted somewhere in Africa), you should be perfectly fine with Japanese Americans buying Japanese products, Korean Americans buying Korean products, German American buying German products, British Americans buying British products, Indian Americans buying Fords since the company has sent plenty of jobs there, even accounting! And that has nothing to do with UAW (which is simply an excuse bought by people who a blinded by badge).
While people like me will continue to enjoy the best there is available in America. In a way or another, it does contribute to America’s economy. It would be dumb of me to be partial to some countries over others for whatever reasons. I’m not going to buy Mexican built stuff simply because I like the beaches in Mexico. That’s my bottom line.
Unemployment is at almost an all-time low. TrueAs long as you will work for low wages. I feel so fortunate to have done my 45 years of work when the middle class was the largest part of the US population. The gap is widening at an alarming rate.
"The growing loss of jobs in this country" is just a myth. False
Living in the number one city for growth it would be hard for you to relate to someone in Detroit or Pittsburgh. I think it would shock you to know how many college grads are not even on the unemployment roles any longer or have taken low paying jobs to feed themselves. The only area that pays well and is hurting for people are the skilled trades. Too many people coming out of college want clean jobs. So the dirty work like roofing, sheet rocking and cement finishing jobs get picked up by, should we say those that may not be here legally.
Or they were a liberal arts major.
Explain it to me again, how is buying ML320 (German) built in Brazil is helping the USA more than it would if you were buying Acura MDX or GMC Arcadia?
The ML320 CDI is built in ALABAMA. Northerners call that so America.
I guess we just agree to disagree.
You are just confusing the issue.
You said a ML320 built in South America and he assumed Brazil since Mercedes has a factory there that builds the C-Class.
Pennsylvania is at 4.2 percent, not much over their all-time low of 3.8 percent set in March of this year. Pittsburgh is at 4.1 right now. Very low.
Sure, the auto and steel industry have taken some hits. But that's just a couple of sectors out of hundreds.
With the overall USA unemployment rate at 4.5 percent, I think complaints about lost jobs are kinda misplaced.
A number of college grads have ALWAYS had to take jobs out of their majors, in many cases below their level of education. That is not NEW by any means.
Even if more of today's jobs are low wage, that's just the nature of the cycle we are in. People adjust.
Those issues would not be fixed just by buying more American-made cars.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Ford totally botched the US launch of the Focus; it was one of the things we studied in grad school of how not to do it. The recalls and TSBs for the first year models was a throwback to the 80s.
Once they got all the bugs worked out that should've been taken care of before it hit the showroom, it was a great car. The design is good, the utility is excellent, the driving characteristics are fun and the reliability is good with a proven design.
This kind of typifies the old way of doing things...great program poor execution. Given the successful launch of the Fusion and Edge, Ford learned too.
I don't think Euro-spec Foci had any of those problems.
Taillight bulbs? Come on. Radiators do give out. Although not a happy problem, they are easily replaced by a do-it-yourselfer. Compressor? Not good. Rattles=truck base.
What you failed to realize is all the things he listed as going bad on his domestic were things that never went bad on his Honda. Small, minor, or indifferent, all of the items listed didn't just "give out" in the Honda.
Are you the person who posted that Honda parts don't wear out. I think I saw the local Honda factory picking up used Hondas at the junkyard the other day. They said they wanted them to put the parts into new Hondas "Since the parts never wear out."
> things he listed as going bad on his domestic were things that never went bad on his Honda
Reality check.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Dodge should have just redesigned the Neon and then offered the Caliber as a 5 door alternative to it.
The ramifications being:
1) NOT spending hundreds of dollars on tow trucks and tow truck drivers over the first 30K miles after warranty expiration?
2) NOT having to spend Thousands of dollars for replacement parts for "parts that just break down" prior to reaching 60K, let alone 100K.
3) Not being left stranded on the road multiple times
4) NOT supporting underskilled lazy, dumb, and pathetic work forces building low quality product
5) NOT supporting lazy untalented engineers who, frankly, design crap vehicles.
6) NOT supporting management teams who get paid way too much to make poor business and customer relations decisions.
Sign me up for foriegn vehicles only please! I'm not into supporting the 6 things listed above by buying domestic.
The Neon is synonomous with :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
They were smart to change the name of the Neon to Caliber.
However, the people on the up and up, know that the Neon by any other name is a Caliber.
Tell that to the Honda owner who has to spend money on two less problems over the first 7 years of ownership than someone that bought a let's say... a domestic product.
Are 2 problems over almost 100,000 miles insignificant? I don't know you tell me?
Problem 1 could be a $1,400+ transmission rebuild.
Problem 2 could be a $1,000 A/C compressor replacement.
I'll take the problem-free Honda thank you very much!
gagrice, "Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?" #4186, 12 Jul 2007 4:01 pm
When you work in the Oilfields of Alaska, the Southern States are referred to as South America. LA is Lower Alabama. Sorry for all the confusion.
Head Gasket failure rates for multiple years, all the way through 1999 models at least. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Auto tranny failures were more common than not before 70K.
AC /A/C failures were common at the 36.1 K mile mark, or 3 years and 1 day, whichever comes first.
O2 sensor failures
O-ring gas tank leak failures
Window molding glue oozing out everywhere.
windshields cracking in half due to structural design flaws.
Faulty belts that broke or burned due to other issues...
Snapping belts too...
Corrosion issues with battery, terminals, starter, starter wires and cables...
parking brake only lasts about 4 years or 42k.
Poor fuel economy and poor performance not living up to specs.
rattles in the back, side, front, all over.
at 60K it rattles and squeaks and makes noises like a car that you'd expect was 25 years old or had 400,000 miles on it.
The interior dashboard came unraveled at the seams.
The ABS was primitive
Engine light issues.
Faulty fuel pumps at 1 day old.
The list goes on and on... I can only remember so much "off-hand."
I checked with other unfortunate Neon owners of the time in the late 90's and early 2000's and all had similar results and problems.
The bottom line is, the big 3 aren’t employing Americans to do the job. Now, when I say that, an immediate reaction would be that they are trying to escape UAW. And UAW is to be blamed for it. Well, aren’t UAW members “Americans”? If you can choose to do their part, why can’t these companies take care of these “Americans” that you worry about?
But, it is about time we stopped blaming UAW for everything. There are a lot of jobs that these companies have outsourced. It isn’t news anymore when a company outsources high paying IT jobs to India and like. While doing that, I believe Ford became the first company to outsource accounting jobs to India as well. Now, how exactly does that figure into UAW woes? The fact is, these companies couldn’t care less about others. It would be stupid of any business to do that. They are not in to do social work. They are all about their bottom line.
And when you choose to become slave of a corporation, you get what you deserve being taken for granted. Unfortunately, in the process you promote their approach instead of asking keep the jobs here. That’s why I’m here.
Please don’t complain about foreign automakers. Their motivation isn’t any different from the big-3. Their bottom line is the same. At least in the process, they are helping people find jobs. Guess what, as a consultant, I have a better chance to be employed by a foreign brand than I do with GM or Ford or Chrysler.
It is one thing to choose products based on experience. Another to support a business with blinders on.
Current Ody is too new to me to have a verdict. My 02 Ody was way better than my original minivan but since my original was the notorious Windstall this was not difficult. The Ody is not the bulletproof vehicle that the Accord is but it's not badly behind either. I DID have to replace the battery on that around 95K.
Do you find it more desirable to buy a car built in Japan than oil coming from Nigeria or Kuwait or Saudi Arabia? American workers get a percentage of that pie. I do see many posters saying it is deplorable to put Saudi oil in their Lexus from Japan.
You mean the problems that are likely a light bulb burned out (that never happens on a Honda :P )
You mean the problem like a rattle in the interior
(that never happens on a Honda :P )
Your lack of logic is amazing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mopar makes a lot of money off of replacement parts.
Your average Japanese make has as many problems at 7 years old as domestics do in their 1st or 3rd year of existance.
Mopar makes a lot of money of replacement parts.
Tell that to my 2 GM cars where this is the non-disposable repair list. (I consider bulbs, batteries, wipers, any fluid, brakes and tires to be disposible because they should be replaced periodically)
1: $7 coolant temperature sensor
2: alternator
Not bad for 2 vehicles that had a combined 270k miles on them. I think most problems are avoided if you simply take care of your car. Change the oil every 3-5k miles. Rotate your tires. Get a tune-up every couple of years. Have a mechanic you trust just look it over every once in a while. Most cars will last well over 100k miles if you take care of them.
Again, maintenance means little to poorly designed or put together parts:
Should I change the bulbs every 2 years, or every 10? Never had a bulb go out on my Honda, nor my parents Toyota while I was driving it.
Batteries... shouldn't they last at least 50 months these days? Should I be charged to replace my burnt timing belt because the faulty AC compressor burned it up while trying to use it?
Again, bulbs eventually burn out. Especially after 10 years. I don't really see an issue here. If it really was a poorly designed vehicle, would it last 10 years and 160k miles without any major mechanical failure? If the engine block was made out of sawdust and chineese newspapers, it would have failed long ago...
That is an excellent point. I would rather have the problems while the vehicle is under warranty than right after the time limit expires. If you think that Japanese parts are cheaper than domestic parts you need to do some research. I am on my 5th GM vehicle in 19 years and have had very few problems. Nothing like I have had with all the major Japanese brands.
I would love to do without oil, but cars are what bring me here! I appreciate cars for their qualities. I haven't found interest in determining quality of gasoline by brand.
Do you really think oil is the only import that provides a piece of pie to Americans? Forget cars being manufactured in the USA employing thousands. Even imported automobiles provide a piece of pie to Americans, who may be employed abroad and of course, within the USA. Koreans aren't sending their transporters to deliver cars to dealership in Korean ships and Korean trucks owned by Koreans who employee only Koreans, and won't use anything but Korean oil and gasoline and diesel for the entire process including energy supply from Korea.
Besides, beyond pursuing my hobbies, I'm not really keen on spending time nitpicking percentages. Its the product that matters to me. When I need gas, I might stop by at a Shell, Exxon, Fina, Valero, Chevron or whatever gas station. It will be a pleasant surprise if I end up meeting a Sheikh there in his custom all-silver Audi A8 to go with his guest palace, and enjoys employing a few Americans in the process.