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Comments
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-01-01-navigation-systems_N.htm
News is Ford's releasing a new "Navigation" system in the mark S. By linking up with Sirius, the thing can tell you the weather, the traffic, where the cheapest gas is, stuff like that. Article doesn't say how much it will cost (my prediction $2500) nor does it mentione that (again me talking) it will require a Sirius subscription ($19.95/month?)
Interestingly there are about 20 comments and all but 1 or 2 are negative.
There is a nice picture of the mks dash in the article. Again, I find it very uninspired for a 'luxury' car. Can someone tell me WHY there is the swooping curve in the dash right above the nav unit?
This also reminds me of some FALSE advertising Ford is doing with the Edge - one commercial shows someone entering information into the Nav unit while the car is moving - which the stinking lawyers at Ford will NOT allow in any Ford I've ever driven. Unless they've changed that in the Edge, this is false advertising.
What exactly is the person doing with the Nav in the commercial? You can select destinations while you're moving if they are pre-programmed. You just can't enter a new destination.
As to the dash layout, I find it has a sedate, refined and uncluttered look to it, and when you add the optional Premium Wood Door-Trim Package, the interior is quite luxurious looking. But that's why they say there's an [non-permissible content removed] for every seat. I happen to find Lincoln's execution quite nice. Oh, and akirby is correct, that so-called swooping curve in the dash right above the nav unit, is the front center sub-woofer for the THX II Premium Audio System.
Akirby is also correct in that one can enter a lot of information into the Nav system while driving. Things like pre-programmed destinations, points of interest, zoom, map orientation, and a lot more can be performed while moving, even without the new SYNC System. But with the new SYNC voice activated next generation Navigation System, most things like programming new destinations can be spoken to, and understood by the Sync powered Navigation System. This system will be offered as an option on the Ford Edge within months, and can also soon be retro-fitted to 2007 & 2008 models without it.
Of course with SYNC having a $395 optional cost, for example on an '08 Focus. One would reasonably think that the cost of retro-fitting SYNC would cost more, possibly double I would think. But it's a magnificent system, and at double, may still be worth it to some people.
Yeah, Rocky, doesn't make it around to as many forums as he once did but this one I have been trying to keep up with lately because it's about a car that I really like and isn't it crazy it's not a General Motors, product !!!!! :P
Hey I'm trying to get a education on this car and you guys are doing a great job. I'm freaken impressed with the Lincoln MKS and my gawd they are taking it over the top with gadgets like the new Microsoft SYNC system, 16 speaker 600 Watt THX II 5.1 surround sound system. Boy Oh Boy, this car is a gadgetologists dream ride. :shades:
-Rocky
Yes, I did like the S80 but I didn't like the wood they only offered for the american market and when I lived in Texas, and had a good job the Volvo, dealers down their were snobs. Even if I could of afford one I probably would of still bought a Caddy STS. Now as you know I'm a huge GM, guy but this new Lincoln, sure is a looker and appears to be more affordable than a STS. If things get better for me finiacially once again in the future, the new MKS, will defintely be on my shopping list !!! :shades:
-Rocky
http://www.lincolnmksforums.com/index.php?showtopic=55
The new "EcoBoost" engine technology. (Couldn't they have gotten the word 'green' in there too?) Apparently this is Ford's name for twin turbo this week? To debut in the mks and then in the ford flex. Now THAT's what every family station wagon needs - a 340 hp twin turbo under the hood. Oh, yeah, only 340 hp. Well it is after all a V6.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=27379
Dismal. The only bragging rights they have is the edge and mkx and they're only up so much cause they werent released for a full year run in 2006. That doesn't prevent Ford saying they're up a combined 62%. Lies, damned lies and statistics, eh?
And the "all-new" Taurus and Sable continue to sell WORSE than their predecessors 500 and Montego. What to do what to do. HEY I've got it, let's rename them the "LTD" and the "Park Lane". That oughtta do it.
While others have direct injection on the market sooner than Ford, the twin-turbo V6 in the MKS could give it the boost they need - pun intended. I wish it could have been introduced at the same time the MKS is launched.
I drove an S80 turbo 6 a few months ago and it didn't impress me very much. The interior didn't strike me as very luxurious and the driving experience was pretty ordinary. I might have liked the V8 better but they are priced out of sight for what you get, IMO.
I agree a bit with your first post - this 'ecoboost' engine technology is certainly well needed for Ford. According to the article they'll be putting it on 4s and 6s. Making the smaller perform like the larger at the same or almost same gas mileage. It uses turbos and direct injection. Certainly an AWD mks with 340hp and what, *maybe* 19/27 mpg might be somethin to replace an LS with.
As for the mks to be released next year or this year or whenever, so far we're told it will have only the 3.7 V6 with 270hp. It'll be basically a gussied-up Taurus. Dont know why you'd want to replace the LS with that? ou've already got it! Plus you drove te S80 turbo and didn't like it and that's as close to the mks TT as you're likely to get and you werent impressed.
Just thinkin aloud here. Have u driven a CTS yet?
-Rocky
There is no way to tell it's even related to the Taurus. Even the doors are different. Get over it.
Why would I want to replace my LS with a base engined MKS? Good question. Answer: The base engine MKS will likely have quicker 0-60 and quarter mile times than my early V8 LS. The MKS has far more technology and luxury features. It will undoubtedly ride more comfortably and be even quieter. I would bet the farm that the overall fit and finish and quality will be higher. Granted, it likely will not go around cones in a parking lot as quickly as my LS. I am basing most of these comments on my experience with my wife's new Taurus and what I have learned about the MKS from Lincoln's website and mailings.
I was immediately turned off on the S80 when I discovered a manual lever to adjust the steering column. The lever looked like it belonged on an antique farm implement. The S80 is much smaller in the back seat and trunk. The interior had a European starkness to it. The exterior looks too much like the cheaper S60. The turbo 6 was rated at 280 HP but didn't feel as quick as my LS. Some of the safety gadgets are just plain silly in my opinion. Finally, by the time you add the desirable options including navigation, you are thousands more than an MKS.
Granted, if I could design my own LS replacement, it would have the luxury and technology of the MKS but be RWD and V8 powered and have a sticker in the low 40s. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist right now.
Hahaha. I would prefer Galaxie and Marquis but I get your point. I recall you saying it was stupid to rename the 500 and Montego. I thought it made sense to do so. If I am going to eat crow, I would prefer it be well-done with some Italian spices, please.
Seriously, the Taurus sedan and Taurus X combined to break the 10,000 unit barrier in December. That is nothing compared to where it should be. If Ford had spent even one thin-assed dime to advertise and market the "new" Taurus, the name change would have had more punch. As it stands now, they are just throwing rebates and dealer cash at it. Sad and stupid.
Ummm - not to belabor the point but the CTS comes closer to your ideal than about anything now or on the horizon. I know, I feel the same way u probably do about going to GM, but they've got the product now.
Ford is so scared witless of being sued for ANYTHING (well, except poorly-performing brakes which is their forte in all the comparos these days) they wont even program a key fob to open all doors with one push. They used to - they did it on my LS. But they wont do it to my Navigator.
BTW, I learned yesterday that this ecoboost technology that Ford is bragging about releasing on the mks has been used in the Mazdaspeed engines for a couple of years already.
BTW, how do you adjust the steering wheel on your (wife's) Taurus?
Hahaha. I would prefer Galaxie and Marquis but I get your point. I recall you saying it was stupid to rename the 500 and Montego. I thought it made sense to do so. If I am going to eat crow, I would prefer it be well-done with some Italian spices, please."
You know, I think I finally have the answer. Rename them:
Toyota 500
Honda Sable
done.
And who, exactly, thought changing the Taurus name was going to cause a sales spike? Most just said it was a better name than Five Hundred. Sales are about the same as last year and they haven't advertised it yet. Give Farley a chance to get the advertising back up to snuff and then let's see where it is.
Given side by side choice, ES wins hands down, IMHO. I just can't stop looking at an ES...
Regards,
OW
I thought the same thing, then I realized that 90% of them were Camrys.
Good one !!!
-Rocky
BTW, I learned yesterday that this ecoboost technology that Ford is bragging about releasing on the mks has been used in the Mazdaspeed engines for a couple of years already.
That's interesting
I wonder what imidazol97, thinks about this car ??? He's a Buick, guy but he might actually like the MKS....
http://www.lincoln.com/reachhigher/?intcmp=B_Lincoln07_LHomeNews_RHHome_20071114-
-Rocky
The new Taurus/MKS platform controls torque steer very well. I drove it back to back with a Fusion V6 and noticed more torque steer with the Fusion than with the Taurus. I would have no problem with either of them, though. I think the Taurus/MKS could handle up to 300 HP without much torque steer if the power is linear rather than a spike. The Ecoboost will need AWD for sure just due to it's massive low-end torque.
The Taurus wheel only tilts - no telecoping. That is a flaw. The MKS has power tilt and telescope. The Taurus also has the dreaded D-L shifter but the MKS has a manumatic. The Taurus is great for my wife because she just wants a quiet, comfortable appliance with lots of room. I am a fussy gearhead and a Taurus wouldn't work for me as a daily driver. I do, however, appreciate the fact that it has proper hood struts and rear seat AC vents, two items missing in the Lincoln MKZ. If fact, I think the top-line Taurus Limited comes much closer to "luxury" than the MKZ.
Jeyhoe, I agree with you - the CTS is a great choice. Actually, I would prefer the STS for its larger size but that model has not sold well and will be discontinued before long.
About the only thing that keeps me out of a Caddy dealership is brand loyalty to Ford. I will not, however, stubbornly buy a Ford product unless it is competitive in its market. That is why I still have an LS with 110,000 miles on it. Ford has not had a worthy substitute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgilKUwMl2A
The restrictions (from what I can tell) on what you can do while in motion are 1) you can't select any destination that requires you to use the alpha-numeric key pad to enter a destiniation 2) you can only select near-by destinations from the 5 categories you have at the top of the destination list.
I assume the MKS will have this same flexibility.
Do you think there is any chance there could be a well sorted out Ecoboost MKS mule available for the enthusiast press to drive by the time the MKS is launched? Even though the engine will not be available at launch, that might give the MKS intro a bit more buzz.
We can be sure that the Ecoboost will require AWD and that is another $1,870 on the base car. I wonder how much more the Ecoboost engine will raise the price - $1,000 maybe? I also wonder if it will include some other things as part of a package, such as firmer suspension, larger wheels/tires, etc?
It is too soon to know pricing for sure but if the final MSRP is under $50K, Lincoln will have a pretty competitive entry and shouldn't need to apologize for anything - other than it taking too long to get here.
Now, what boggles my mind is Ford's pricing for this car. In fact for all their sedans. This car, the mks, starts at $38000. Yet there are 2 other cars in the Ford stable also based on th chassis under the mks. And these cars are priced much lower. Eg: Taurus AWD starts at $25,095 and the Mercury Montego AWD at $25,390.
Now I ask, what IS the point? $300 more for the Mercury for what exactly? And $13,000 more for the Lincoln. WHY have 2 cars priced so close as to be identical and then another model ,based on same underpinnings, for 1/3 more than the price of the low end car?
IOW, wouldn't it make sense for Mercury to actually be an UPGRADE from a Ford? In whatever way. Price the Merc at maybe $29,995 leaving the real high end to the Lincon which is still $8000 more? Are there NO customers who would want a nicer 500 but not $13000 nicer? If not, seriously, what IS the point of Mercury?
As for the Taurus vs. MKS - I suppose if the MKS was RWD then it would be great and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. You're completely ignoring all of the Lincoln upgrades including a larger engine, more sound control, much better interior not to mention all of the Lincoln gadgets (cooled seats, keyless go, adaptive HIDs, etc. etc.).
You're just hung up on the FWD D3 platform. RWD is coming, maybe sooner than you think. In the meantime try to be a little more objective. The MKS is a very nice luxury car.
I've said many times I think the MKS is a beautiful car outside. I really like it. It's better looking than the Z or my LS is some ways, though I think the LS has a more classic body that will stand the test of time better. But the S is gorgeous outside. Inside, from the pictures, it is outclassed by pretty much everything I've seen in it's class, as well as the Malibu, Aura and other much cheaper cars.
Notice the above says NOTHING about which wheels drive the car.
As for the drivetrain - RWD is, all else equal, much better for a car's handling on dry pavement. FWD can be better in rain or snow. If i still lived in Boston where I grew up, I'd probably want a FWD or AWD car. Being in California, RWD is my choice.
As for price - I think the S is WAY overpriced. You could buy a fully loaded 6cylinder LS for $38,000. That's the STARTING price of the 6 cyliner S. Pay a bit more and get a V8 LS. You dont have that option with the S. Sure, maybe in a year or 5 you can buy an S with a twin-turbo direct injection engine but you BETTER get a real good extended warrantee with it. So, a full $15000 MORE for the S than the SAME chassis with a boring body on it. OK, it's got more sound-deadening material. That's $50.00. Where's the rest of the money going? Oh yeah, 5 more HP. What is it $3000 per horsepower?
As for more specifics - I dont like the FACT that I really cant buy a "Lincoln" anymore, except for the 30 year old TownCar. THe rest are Japanese or Swedish or sometime to be Australian clones - that's a fact. Ford, like the engineering companies here in silicon valley, has out sourced almost everything. It's sickening. Can American engineers design anything anymore? Dont look at Ford for the answer, cause I dont think there are any engineers left. I would NOT advise an American student to go into engineering anymore, unless they want to move to Mumbai. Soon, a country of lawyers and burger-flippers and Ford is helping make that happen. Yeah yeah, globalization. Yeah yeah, tilting at windmills. Still, cant help feeling this way. A once great country is going down the tubes. Cars today are specified by Nanci Pelosi, then designed and usually built in a foreign country. I got no reason to buy a Ford over a Tata anymore.
THAT's what bothers me.
And as for Mercury, the brand I chose for my first two cars, DEEP-SIX it. Sell Lincolns at Ford dealerships. It's ridiculous to have one brand exist only to support another. How stupid is that?
If you want to compare try an Audi A6 - FWD with AWD optional plus many of the same luxury appointments. Base price - V6 FWD $43K. Or how about a base MB E350 for $51K? Is RWD worth $13K?
I do think you are too hard on the D3, though. It is a very stiff platform and a good basis for a luxury car, in spite of being FWD based. The MKS brings a lot more to the party than a Taurus - selectshift, heated/cooled seats, power tilt/telescope wheel, better warranty, better interior materials, and lots more. I have not seen the MKS interior in person but I really like it in pictures. It is conventional but it is also tasteful, simple, and integrated. The ergonomics look great to me. According to Lincoln, they went to a lot of effort to minimize visable cut lines. They also point to the quality of the materials used.
The Ecoboost techology will spread to other Ford products so the cost may not be as high as you think. We will have to wait and see on that. My guess is that the Ecoboost MKS will include AWD and maybe some suspension/tire upgrades so the overall cost may be 3-4 thousand more but that would not all be attributable to the engine cost. I could also be quite wrong in my guess!
Lincoln does not aspire to compete with MB or Audi or BMW anymore, we've been told that by people who work or worked for Ford. Lincoln == Buick now. So, how much IS a Lucerne?
Heck, even the CTS, arguably a much better handling vehicle with a far nicer interior, an engine with 10% More power etc etc starts for $3000 LESS than the MKS. ($6000 LESS if you want a manual transmission, which of course you cant get in a Lincoln.)
And for the last time, I'd like to know where the S is $15000 better than a MontegoSable? Better interior materials? OK, give u $500 on that. $50 for sound deadening. $300 for heated seats. $300 for an extra gear. $500 for select shift. $300 for 'hidden' keypad. I'll even spot you $1000 for the extra 5 horsepower. SO far, $3000. WHERE's the other $12000?
OK, I know th above is basically BS, but really, WHY pay $38000 for a FWD appliance when u can have almost the identical (mechanically) FWD appliance for $23000? Are we really going to pay that extra $15000 for 5hp, one gear and a prettier body?
And as for Fusion bigger than LS, well, there's no transmission hump is there? That pretty much explains it.
And as for the LS, the V8 LS topped at $48000, yeah, OK. But you yourself said they "lost money on every one they sold" So that means the cost was way up there as well, eh? Maybe $40,000 assuming rebates etc? Obviously OTOH they can build a D3-mobile for under $20,000 tops. So I guess anyone who buys a MKS is getting taken for a serious ride, so to speak? (apologies to brucelinc.)
Oh and finally, since you seem to have inside info, just how much IS the twin-turbo going to cost in a MKS? My bet is AT LEAST $4000 to $5000, probably more.
In summary, based on the costs of the Taurus/Sable and the CTS and the V6 LS, I think a fair starting price for the FWD mks would be about $32000 MAX.
If you price out a CTS with the same features as the base MKS - it comes to $42K. And that's without the hi-po engine and tranny or special paint.
It's a bargain at $38K. If it's not worth it to you, then don't buy it.
In addition to the equipment level, the MKS also has a better noise insulation package, much higher quality interior materials, real wood instead of wud, and a better warranty. You also have the option of upgrading to equipment not available on the Taurus - the BAM, the headlights, power rear sunshate, the keyless start, and more.
It is common to have difficulty justifying the price of an upscale car compared to a low-end car. Why is an ES350 more than a V6 Camry? Why is a Cadillac more than a Buick? In the case of the MKS vs the Taurus, the price difference is no more pronounced than those.
Rear Wheel Drive Lincoln Story
Aight so Boys and girls What do you think !?!?!?!?!
"Jim Farley, Ford’s new head of marketing, says MKS customers want dynamic steering, feel, and braking but are not necessarily performance seekers."
Did u know that about yourself? You dojnt want performance, you want dynamic steering and braking! Way to go dude!
Just having a little fun, bl, not personal. It always amazes me how these marketing types know just who we are and what we want!
Coincidentally, since my last remarks on the mks, I've learned some new facts about it from a 'review' in my local left-wing rag the san jose mercury news. But it's the lincoln news today. I learned that:
- the wood in the S, which may or may not be optional at extra cost, IS real wood. And it is made from scraps bought from furniture manufacturers! How's THAT for green?
- the MKS is the replacement for the Town Car! I didn't know that.
- the MKS will have a version with over 400 HP by 2010 as part of a "Performance-oriented Package" - Boy, somebody better tell that Farley dude!
- the importance of the mks to Lincoln's future cannot be overstated.
- 60% of MKS buyers will be first time Lincoln buyers! Wow.
- Lincoln designers have done a great job. he S could easily be mistaken for a Lexus or Infiniti from the side view.