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Comments
Unlike the opinion of domestic drivers towards Toyota owners, I have indeed posted the issues I have had with my TCH and other foreign autos. I can't justify my purchase to most people. I've never been able to justify my purchase to others. I've already been called irrational in several of the forums for trading in my InfinitiFX for the TCH.
The one journalist talked about the "perception" of lack of responsiveness. That's not about facts and results, that's an attitude issue. I had a perception that while sitting in my TCH with the ICE not running that I would get run over when I pulled out in front of traffic. I overcame that perception when I indeed floored it and the ICE started immediately and took off just as all my past vehicles have done. I know longer have that perception and I proved that perception to be false in reality. I try to live in reality.
The "lurch" I believe too is a perception. I can "feel" and hear when my ICE kicks on and off. It's subtle and sometimes I actually have to look at the instant mpg readout to really know that it did. Fact is, it doesn't lurch (that can probably be measured). It's smooth, much smoother than the lurch you would have when an automatic transmission shifts.
I now have over 2300 miles of driving on my TCH and can say these are not issues with my car. I don't imagine my car is any different than the others.
If these people are professional reviewers I believe they need another profession. Then again, most movies I attend, I go to after certan critics give a thumbs down. Some people just can't be trusted to give either unbiased opinions or an opinion that represents the marketplace in that segment. However, we don't all have that problem. It's probably human nature to lie but I prefer to tell the truth if for no reason other than to keep my story consistant.
For what it's worth, I consider the TCH to be a well built mid size, mid price car. It's certainly not even a "base" luxury car. It is no where near the "quality" of a BMW, but time will tell if it has typical Toyota "reliability". I knew when I purchased this car that it would meet my minimum requirement for comfort, but yes I would like to see less plastic, to rear less road noise, and that it handles curves better, etc.
However I wanted an economy car and I am estatic that I am able to buy a car this large with heated leather seats, a sunroof and navigation system and STILL get 38mpg. It may not be a Lexus, but it's head and shoulders above a Cobolt or similar small car that I figured I'd be purchasing when I decided I wanted to get high mpg's (on average, not just highway)
They don't have to pay for this. After my experience last week on the GM forums I found there are enough "hate anything but GM" owners out there to keep this kind of misinformation flowing. There are so many of them that you almost have to believe them because we tend to listen to the masses. I found that you can't reason with them and it's a waste of time even trying, unless you just enjoy that type of thing
For example, if you have the keyfob in a jacket pocket, and you toss the jacket in the front passenger seat, will the car still start properly? What if you throw the jacket in the back seat?
Also, does the fob allow for entry into a locked door without having to push keyfob buttons (do the doors unlock as you approach the car? What about the trunk? Is there an actual key at all (for the truck for example)?
Thanks!
FWIW, I also plan to switch to Mobil 1 synthetic at my first oil change.
"Handling on the Camry is generally responsive, but we found that when crawling along in traffic, the steering wheel has an alarming tendency to pull sharply to the left or right depending on the camber of the road. This may have something to do with the Toyota's high-tech VDIM systems (see Safety section), but we found it very disconcerting. "
I have not driven one of these yet and am hoping to take delivery of one soon. I also tremember reading something to the effect that people had trouble controlling the Prius Steering and am wondering if this is the same issue.
Thanks for any comments regarding this issue.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef28f96/265
I have over 400 miles on the car and have not experienced this. The car rides very smoothly and stearing is pretty tight. The ride is pretty quiet as well. The only issue that I can comment on is that occassionally (not very often) when the ICE motor kicks on you feel a slight brief initial vibration.
Yes, it will. Mine is in my purse which is either thrown onto the floor in front of the passenger seat or onto the passenger seat or onto the back seat or sometimes onto the floor in the back. My TCH has started with no problem with the fob in all those locations.
Also, does the fob allow for entry into a locked door without having to push keyfob buttons (do the doors unlock as you approach the car?
The doors don't unlock automatically as you approach the car. You have to pull on the door handle when the fob is in range, then they unlock.
What about the trunk? Is there an actual key at all (for the truck for example)?
If you're standing with the fob at rear of the car near the trunk, then you can open the trunk without having to push a button on the fob. You also don't need to use a key if the fob is in range. What I haven't been able to do is unlock the driver's door, throw my purse (or jacket) with the fob inside onto the seat and then walk back and open the trunk. In order to "automatically" unlock, the fob must be within the specified range at the rear of the car by the trunk.
There is an actual key, although it's quite tiny and is stored inside the fob. The only time you'd need to pull the key out is if the fob stops working for some reason. And then I think the key is only designed to unlock the driver's door or trunk. I don't think it can be used to start the car. Can someone else verify that?
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef28f96/265
"The steering has always been 'loose'. I mostly notice it on the freeway where it will suddenly pull slightly to the right or left, requiring constant adjustment to keep a straight course. It feels like I'm constantly driving in very windy conditions, with the car being buffeted around. It also had a severe pull to the left when I first drove it, which an alignment seemed to have fixed, but now I am starting to see again.
These two issues combined make for a very unsteady ride on the freeway, almost to the point of feeling unsafe."
I have about 300 miles on my TCH with 65-70+ mph speeds (Houston freeways) and putt-putt downtown speeds and stop-n-go-bumper-to-bumper speeds (Houston freeways again). I've never noticed anything like the Prius owner describes (quoted above).
Not at all true, anyone with a little programming experience, a laptop, and a few very cheap parts can break the encryption and start the car. It can't be started by the punk down the block.
The same is true of normal "immobilizer" keys. The problem is that silly 40 bit encryption the chip uses.
Or does the Camry have higher encryption?
You are correct. The little mechanical key that is "hidden" inside the fob will not start the car. If the battery on the fob runs out you are supposed to be able to start the car by rubbing the fob's Toyota logo alongside the "start" button.
I haven't been adventurous enough to take my fob battery out and try this.
If you want to save money don't get the Hybrid period. You yourself said it would cost you $8K more and would stretch your finances. Hybrids have nice features, are green, and save you money at the pump, but the do no provide the lowest TCO. It takes a long, long time to pay off the hybrid bogey even at $3.00+ per gallon.
As far as someone paying $1,200/year for insurance, that seems very high. My 2006 S2000 convertible Is only $1024 per year for full $250,000/$500,000 coverage. The TCH should be much, much less than that.
motor on,
MidCow
P.S.- The Insight is going away LOL
LOL, You can talk the talk, but do you REALLY walk the walk. Most people are only as green it is convenient for them.
Cheers,
MidCow
Absolutely wrong. It is perfectly legal to own a diesel in California. You cannot buy them new, but you can get them used with 7501 miles on the odometer. If you do a search of VW dealers, you will find some available.
on the other side, there are people who think SUVs are the sourge of the earth, but completely ignore the rest of the driver's impact (i.e commute distance; home size; recreational choices). Me and my 17 mpg SUV commuting 6 miles/day are greener than the guy in the Prius with a 50 mile commute who drives a motor boat on the weekend
a man's car choice does NOT tell you everything
Depends greatly on what part of the country you live in. Insurance rates in Houston/Harris County are sky-high, even for those with spotless records. The liability portion is huge. $1200/year sounds cheap to me.
Owners?
Use EPA figures for both cars, rather than one report of 38 for the TCH & 3 MPG UNDER EPA for the V6. You apparently used $3.00/gl for gas prices. I'm paying $2.50 to $2.55 today. Using those figures changes things quite a bit. My crystal ball isn't clear enough to predict what it will be in 2 years
Federal & state tax credits? I don't qualify, so that's not a factor for me.
Trade in values? Again, my crystal ball isn't clear enough to predict 2-3 year out; but,I have concerns about TCH battery life at 180,000 miles.
As you said, best/worse case, I'll have a nice XLE V6 to drive for a couple of years - when It's delivered. I'm 4-1/2 weeks into a projected 10-12 week delivery date.
Peace.
One of the questions I asked the dealers was "What is the cost of the 100,000 mile timing belt & service for the car?" Three ignored the question or said they didn't know, The 2 that answered said $1,200. That equals $60-$65 dollars A MONTH at my annual mileage.
By by VW.
But, I've noticed that if I set the cruise control, it isn't nearly as bad. I'm thinking the digital gas pedal is really sensitive or something? Who knows. But I totally wouldn't discount what they're saying about the lurching. My car does it too.
Oh, and I'm a computer geek for a defense contractor. No affiliation with GM or any other car maker.
Please keep us posted. Thank you.
Sometimes I get amused listening to their BS.
Went something like this:
"So what are you selling the Hybrid Camry's for"
"you know they are a hot item now and we only get a couple per month"
" OK ... so are you selling them for MSRP?"
"(pauses) and smiles..."
" your selling them at additional cost?"
" well yes... we have to add on a Prep charge of $950 because we do alot to get it ready for you"
"So the 2600 profit is not enough?"
"You know we only make 3% profit on these cars"
...thats when I smiled and politely left.
It appears that as long as the demand is there and someone is willing to pay the extra cost... getting a Hybrid for MSRP is not an option... at least not now.
However I think dealers that lie or allow their salemen to lie should be put out of business by the consumers refusing to deal with them.
Sell it to me at whatever you want, but don't lie about the profit margin. Don't treat me as stupid (although paying $3000 over MSRP puts me in close proximity of that definition). Anyway as long as I know I'm being gouged and I agree then I'm OK with it.
They don't do anymore to get these ready than they do for any other car, and that's why they always sell them at a profit.
This stuff ticks me off
I don't think I'd smile and politely walk off. My dealer delt with me because I tld him I'd do my business there. I bought 3 vehicles there in the last couple of months and told them I didn't mind "overpaying" for my TCH (the other deals were GREAT), but he needed to treat me like he wanted me back. They did.
I guess if you don't have a saleperson or dealer you work with and it's a "cold" call then they probably don't feel like they are losing you from here on out.
For a savings of $3000 I'm not sure why many of you are not flying to other states to buy your cars.
So I'm not sure what CARB is though... Never heard of that and now I'm worried. hehe It sounds like I might have lost out on a 50k mile warranty extension by buying out of state...
PZEV: Partial Zero Emission Vehicle
PZEVs meet SULEV tailpipe emission standards, have zero evaporative emissions and a 15 year / 150,000 mile warranty. No evaporative emissions means that they have fewer emissions while being driven than a typical gasoline car has while just sitting.
AT PZEV: Advanced Technology PZEVs
AT PZEVs meet the PZEV requirements and have additional "ZEV-like" characteristics. A dedicated compressed natural gas vehicle, or a hybrid vehicle with engine emissions that meet the PZEV standards would be an AT PZEV.
http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/carbs/index.asp
Do you live in Arizona? In my case (WV), when I purchase out of state I sign a waiver in the purchase state and pay the taxes in my own state. If a trade is involved I only pay taxes on the difference.
Just curious, what is an extra use tax?
There are several posts on this subject as it was brought up when I purchased earlier this month. I make decent money but have never had to pay the AMT, so I fully expect to cash in on my $2600 FED and $3750 State Tax Credits.
I ran a sample AMT on last years income and it's a somewhat confusing form (at least to me the first time I had ever looked at it).
I understand that the AMT is affected by earing "different" kind of money (that is not just a normal salary) and somehow they say it is a disadvantage for people living in a high cost area. I don't, but I was not sure how it was designed where it would matter where you live. That is unless I guess if you live somewhere that houses cost $500,000 and you have very high deductions, that could hurt. Hopefully though if you live in an area like that the salaries and living adjustments would keep you on a level playing field.
You probably should run through the calculation just so you don't get hit with any surprises next April.
WOW after being gouged by the dealer for a $3000 markup for cleaning the car up before you buy it I can see why there are so many angry drivers on the freeways in the large cities.
I guess living in a lost cost area without a lot of taxes and no crowded roads has some advantages.
Haven't you learnt anything on these forums about negotiating the price of a car?
Some states like AZ collect sales tax on cars that are going out of state. In the case of buying in AZ and registering in CA you only pay the sales tax difference when you register in CA. CA sales tax varies by area, from 7.75% to 8.5%. Yes the deduction on your home loan interest can mess you up with the AMT imposed by the IRS. In the case of San Diego the median home now is $624,000. With the normal 20% down you have a loan of half a million and yearly interest of about $25,000. That is enough on a $85,000 income to get you into the AMT.
Getting back to the TCH. If you buy one at the going rate in CA of $30,661 loaded, your sales tax is $2530. License fees of about $250. For an OTD price of $33k plus. If you have bought your home recently you may not get the tax credit. If you are a buyer like me you would opt for a 2006 Camry XLE 4C with leather moonroof etc. That car can be had for $10k less in San Diego than the TCH. And IMHO is a better looking Camry than the 2007. Add to that two reviews out of 3 reviews complained of lunging at highway speeds. Looking at the consumer reviews on the TCH one new owner is also complaining about the lunging. There must be something to it. Of course it took Toyota nearly a year to admit to the stalling with the Prius II. I would stick with the proven technology of last years Camry. Plus the 2006 has a bigger trunk more headroom front and back and better mileage rating than the 2007 Camry. I guess that is progress???
PS
Sounds like West Virginia would be a good place to retire. I'll have to check it out.....
Maybe, just maybe, that is why the true hypermilers don't like cruise control!
He never did hear back from the rich FX45 person who did care about money just being green , if the were fully green : solar, push mower, no house air conditioning walk/ride bike on short trips. Makes you wonder why one would complain about lousy gas mileage if $$$ didnt really matter. I think it is just like a Hollywood star driving a Prius tjust to make a statement!
LOL,
MidCow
P.S.- Hurricaine season starts today, another bad one but not as bad as 2005.
"I was impressed with A. The pickup/speed "
". My "other car" is a Prius."
Well DUH! the Prius is the slowest car Toyota makes and is one of the slowest cars period!
The TCH should have, much ,much better pickup. I have heard that as the TCH production has started ramping-up that Prius sales are starting to drop, they are available with no wait, at below MSRP. Did Toyota kill their golden goose with its artifically imposed supply ilmits or has the latent demand finally been satisfied ?
Later,
MidCow
http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3203
http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/17/Autos/used_compacts/
And there are many more recent articles I could cite, though your can find them yourself by using Google.
Preferably east of Salt Lake City, as I have to drive it back to the east coast.
Northeast availabilty is best.
Thanks.