Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Thanks for the lecture. I didnt say I wont pay insurance at all if I can help. 100 bucks a month is reasonable but 380 is not. Both with same history. I moved to ontario from new york state (thats not a reason enough). Anyways long story short, I believe Insurance industry is slowly killing the auto industry (in canada atleast). I currently pay 230 bucks a month. Say If I go back to my old rates of 100 bucks a month then I have 130 left over which can buy me more gas or help me get a better car. Ok this whole topic of insurance may not be very relevant to those in states paying 50 bucks a month but it is a factor to poor schmucks living in the great white north.
Most people don't want to buy a car with the dashboard mounted above the center-stack.
I know that I will, hopefully, never buy a car like that.
:shades:
I used to be a believer of "bigger is better" a while back. But I have changed my mind now. You see car manufacturers are getting very good at decontenting where you dont see. You can feel it and overtime it will be glaringly obvious. So bang for back has taken on a new meaning. Instead of buying the biggest you can, step back a little bit and get a quality product which has some tangible benefits. So coming back to the xyz vs slightly bigger abc comparisons, if xyz for instance has some other tangible benefit (say better noise proofing for example or good looking interior), I will take quality product xyz. Why do you think people pay more for a quality burger at restaurants when they could walk into Burger King and get double whopper with cheese for half the price? If a subcompact fits your needs, then by all means.. but if you live in suburbia and can afford a huge turning radius, then get one with a huge overhang that will rattle and squeak :P
We have an excellent opportunity to see just how the public reacts to the small car in three offerings mentioned in another forum right here at edmunds. Only in truth the Fit is about the only one that can be called a sub compact. The Versa isn't all that small. It does have compact Hp as well. We had an opportunity to see it in action when they released the Echo. Targeted just at the very people you have spoken up for. The very group that should have embraced the Echo turned on it causing it to fall well short of any of its sales projections and at last to be dropped. The Yaris doesn't seem to be catching on as quickly as people wanted and the xA is in fact the smallest and slowest selling Scion. Yet even these are not sub compacts by the Mini Cooper standards. Most assurdly not by Japanese standards. And it is the manufacturers themselves that express doubt at the idea of the American public being ready to accept small low powered sub compacts. I don't see it happening in the next ten years if ever. But I have no doubt that any success they do have will increase the minute they increase HP and once one of them does that the same thing that happened to the Accord will start all over again. Remember how small the first Accord was? It is about time to start the cycle all over again I am sure. But I am just as sure it will go the same place the last one did. At least I think I am sure, unless I see a sub compact selling at 200K units a year like the Accords and Camry's do.
Someday some catastrophic event may cause people move all the way down to the minimum to better shield themselves. Face it, we dont know what the gas prices or worse availability is 5-10 years down the road.. :confuse:
People who leased suvs 4 years ago never bought theirs since real market value was less than residual value on paper. Most of them didnt anticipate suv's resale meltdown. :sick:
Downsizing is here to stay and people are shedding large cars. There is no stigma now to drive smaller cars :shades: . Sure whether its a corolla or yaris.. its upto the individual buyers, their needs and surroundings.
Most people including me who might have expanding families may have to think twice before downsizing. People need power and room. But bigger is not always better as evidenced by sales records of Cavalier/Malibu/L300
Most ironic thing about this post is that I traded my perfectly good compact upto a midsize v6 few years ago as that was the trend. In reality, that was a bad move as I have paid more for little gain. Nowadays trend is moving the other way and is more pronounced in cities like Toronto ($4.30 per gallon). Unless you are here, you have no idea of congestion I'm talking about during peak traffic. I suspect LA is planned a lot better than T.O.
A couple of comments, first of all a difference of 1 MPG is statistically the same (remember these are estiments and are subject to a margin of error). Secondly the Fit appears to get better city mileage than the Corolla. Plus only the Corolla in the manual version gets better gas mileage (highway) than the fit, in auto versions they seem to get the same gas mileage (highway). So unless you do a majority of your driving on the highway and get the stick I would say that its pretty much a wash as far as mileage is concerned.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2008 C30
Never been a Volvo fan, but they have my attention now. If the only significant impact of even minor accetance of subcompacts here is an increase in offerings even of compacts of this ilk, then a major success they will have been, IMO.
Here's hoping we see more here...
You will soon be one of us.
You will soon be one of us.
You will soon be one of us.
I have a quick off topic question for you. by your profile you say you appraise classic cars. What would a ball park figure for a '38 Zephyr V12 in ok shape be?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thatsa verra nice car!
Hopefuuly, it'll have the performance, handling, and interior luxury equal to that of the new VW GTI.
:surprise:
39 import brands, 4 domestic. i have 3 of those domestics.
don't feel inferior for it. the others are the ones with the problem.
It will be held Saturday, August 12 from 9-3pm at 100 South Main St. in Crystal Lake, IL.
There will probably be 100+ vehicles.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Are you kidding me or what? The Versa had probably the best space utilization of any car I have ever seen in my life. The interior felt just a hair smaller than my current car, it is definately something I could live with. The quality of the interior was impressive considering the car's price.
At $13k with power everything, someone is going to drive that puppy home and get the deal of a lifetime. Not to mention cheap gas - my Maxima gets 23-24 mpg avg, and takes premium to boot. What I wouldn't give for the Versa's 40 mpg + regular... :sick:
Well, apparently among the things you wouldn't give is your Maxima. :P
Is that $13k price for the power everything Versa? Or is it for the basic model?
Is that $13k price for the power everything Versa? Or is it for the basic model?
Yeah, I can't say that I'd give up the power, driving experience, and creature comforts of the Maxima to save a ton of money on gas. :P
It wasn't a loaded Versa, it was actually a fairly basic model (5 spd), but did have the power package so it had power locks, keyless entry, etc.
Ummmmm.....sales forecasts were 50K a year, which it did for the first two years, and almost made in the third year.
"The Yaris doesn't seem to be catching on as quickly as people wanted"
I don't know who those people are, but if it maintains its pace, it will sell about as many as the much-vaunted Prius, and DOUBLE Toyota's sales forecasts (which were, again, 50K per year, same as the Echo). At the same time, it will be outselling most domestics' full-size cars, and matching sales of models like the Expedition. All by its little self, before you even CONSIDER the 40K Fits Honda will sell this year, the 60-100K Aveos and Rios and Accents that will go out the door, the.....
Toyota is barely moving any Tundras and 4Runner sales are significantly down, but dealrs can't even keep Corollas in stock despite its age, and the Yaris has doubled initial expectations. See a trend here? :-P
Hey, you think we will ever see an end to this mindless trend where one of the necessary "improvements" every model must see when the full model update comes is an increase in size?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I have said many times the compact market will continue to do well as in the case of the Corolla, Civic and such. I just don't see the Sub compacts coming in under compacts enough to cause people to flood to the dealerships.
About the trend and the new models?
You are talking about the very trend I believe will doom any concerted effort at long term sales of Sub compacts. Much like what happened in the small two seat boom we saw right after the Mazda Miata hit the streets. Soon there were a flood of two seaters from Toyota and the like trying to capitalize on that small market. wasn't Toyota that had two models? Maybe not. Once the saturation point hit sales fell off and the manufacturer that offered the first size or HP increase jumped ahead or fell back in the race depending on how well those "improvement" were received. If I were a betting man I would say that is exactly where the new batch of want to be sub compacts are headed. I say want to be because they are a bit bigger than what we consider sub compact in European or Japanese standards. It is an American tradition to want just a bit more than our neighbor. If Joe next door has a Hondukie sub compact with 100 hp and 24 cubic feet of storage space and he paid 13k for it people will want the Toynissota with 110Hp and 25 cubic feet of storage space for 13k. And if they both get 35 MPG all the better. Next model year if Honduki offers a 120 HP model with 25 cubic feet of cargo space guess what people will want? They might even pay 14k for it. Or they might be willing to pay the same if they only lose 1 MPG but offer to make them pay the same for a smaller car with less HP and "I personally" believe the buying public will embrace the new improved champion of the commuter cars with more of whatever they can get. At least that has happened every time they have tried this in the past.
How many Yarises have they sold so far? Aren't they up to over 10,000 per month?
The new subcompacts are a substantial upgrade of old subcompacts, so it's a different trend I think---that is, a ready-made market that can and will make "conquest sales" of cars that are a bit bigger and gas hungry.
Today's subcompact is the perfect replacement for yesterdays 1999 compact car.
So I think the subcompacts will grab all the former subcompact market, as well as pummeling the Smart into a corpse, and then start eating a substantial part of the compact market----but not much further up the food chain than that. Camry and Maxima can relax, Civic and Corolla should stay nervous.
might want to recheck that before you open your checkbook. The Versa doesn't get close to 40mpg.
Yeah, after I typed that post I noticed that it's actually 30/36. With my mix of driving, that would be 34 mpg overall, which is still heaps better than the 23-24 I get with the Maxima.
While the Versa does get worse mileage than a Fit or Yaris, I'd still buy the Nissan. I haven't sat in a Fit but I have sat in a Yaris. The Toyota wasn't bad, but the Nissan was certainly more comfortable and spacious (and had more options as well).
I guess if you don't haul a lot of stuff the Versa might seem appealing, but I do so that rear seat is a huge problem.
So I agree with you that its ability to haul stuff will be a big negative with that car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The Prius is one of those cars with good legroom and headroom, where you can get four good-sized adults in it. However, IMO a "real" midsized car should be able to get 3 across in the back seat fairly comfortably, and that ain't happening in a Prius. Or a Versa.
I also question whether the Versa really has 17 cubic feet of cargo area behind the back seat? My Intrepid only has something like 18.4, and I don't believe for a second that the Versa's space back there is that close...even if you do consider that being a hatchback, it has a taller area.
Seems like if being able to haul passengers is your priority then a Versa would be a good car. However, I've been in the Elantra sedan, and was actually impressed at how roomy it was.
I'm not sure what you mean by "high RPM" - unlike Honda, you don't need to wind Nissan engines up to 6k RPM to get the most power out of them. The Nissan engine is certainly quieter than the Fit during normal highway/city driving.
As for the plant in Mexico, that specific plant has sterling quality. Someone posted a link in one of the other subcompact threads to back this up. Otherwise, not buying a car simply because it's assembled in Mexico is racist, quite honestly.
Kinda sad though, because the sucker was already missing a hubcap and had body damage on the rear quarter. It was kind of a pretty color too, a pastel greenish blue that seemed a cross between the "Jadestone" of my old '82 Cutlass Supreme and maybe what you might find on an Easter Egg.
or it simply means you would like to buy one assembled in the US to support our economy and workers. Let's not be so quick to pull out the racist car, OK?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
There is, however, a particular Prius I have been on the highway with quite a few times during my morning commute. Now there is a machine you buy purely for mileage ... yet he does not drive that thing lightly at all.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Nothing wrong with that, but that clearly was not what he meant. His implication was that a Mexican-made car is shoddy strictly due to Mexicans assembling it. If you believe that a car is junk based on the nationality/race of the people who assembled it, that is a racist viewpoint.
I see the same attitude used by Americans to justify NOT buying cars assembled in the U.S., and it makes me sick - it's not racism (we are the melting pot, after all), but not patriotic at best. Not having faith in your fellow countrymen is borderline traitorous, IMO.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Why is it people question the safety of sub-compacts, but never about the safety of small sporty-cars? From the Miata up to the Lotus Elise, we never hear people talk about the worries about being crushed by an Escalade or something in those - especially when those cars are far more likely to get lost in a blind spot than the sub-priced cars we're talking about here.
Just curious....
Just kidding... that's actually a good question. An Escalade could drive right over a Miata without even seeing it.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Last person I saw driving a Miata looked like freezed dried death.
who make more money than we
My sister was on the bandwagon and got one when they first come out, she wasn't making more money than me.
and drive hotter cars
Well that depends on what you consider hotter and what you drive. On the whole I rather have my Caddy than a Miata any day.
that's actually a good question.
It is a good question, I think its because when people think small cars they automatically think of what they see the most of, that being cars like the Fit and the Versa, not Miatas and Loti (Lotus's?).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Now sporty cars would often have a much higher death rate than your typical cheap small car, but that's because people would buy them, drive aggressively, and get into more heroic crashes. The Corvette, for example, is actually a very safe car from what I've heard. However, usually people would drive a Corvette a bit differently than they would a Chevette, so the crashes would be more extreme. If people took their Corvettes, Miatas, etc, and drove them like economy cars, they'd probably show a pretty low death rate. But then if you're going to drive it like a Chevette, I guess the argument could be made that you might as well just go BUY a Chevette! :P
The review is great. It appears BMW addressed the hp problem, tightened the suspension even more, and improved the seats.
The news for the U.S. is not so great. According to TCC, the Cooper S will start arriving on these shores sometime next Spring. The Mini Cooper will not be here until next Fall.
Seems to me, BMW underestimated how quickly the US has warmed to sub compacts.
The sub compact buyer is arguably someone looking for basic transportation to get to and from work, do their errands, visit friends. In other words, the same thing most any other car buyer is thinking about when buying a car.
As such, it makes sense the sub compact buyer would reasonably expect their safety is assured as much as those who buy larger appliance vehicles.
More interesting is the perception that a car can be made 'safe' when in fact cars are still incredibly dangerous, statistically speaking, compared to most other risk factors we the people commonly come in contact with.
So to be really sober about it, the American public should be looking at subcompacts in terms of a) safety relative to larger cars and b) safety relative to other forms of transport.
and c) safety relative to older cars they are discarding.
I really wonder...by trading in an older car with front/side airbags, for a new subcompact with them, I must have increased my safety...but if I had moved up to a compact car, would I have automatically increased it more? By how much?
and more to the point, am I really 'safe' no matter what I buy?
and more to the point, am I really 'safe' no matter what I buy?
Well there's varying degrees of "more" or "less" safe. Or "more" or "less" dangerous, if you will. But there's no such thing as totally safe.
And no matter what kind of car you buy, there are tradeoffs. A bigger car without airbags might be safer than a smaller car with them. But then a smaller car might be more nimble or, at the very least, present itself as less of a target. If you're going through an intersection in an Echo versus a Mark V and someone runs a red light, the Mark V presents about 7 more feet of car to hit, while the red light runner might be able to swerve around the Echo. Or, even if the two cars could accelerate the same (I doubt an automatic Echo is any quicker than a Mark V) the Mark is still 7 more feet of car you have to get out of the way to clear the red light runner.
But then on the flip side, depending on what ends up hitting you, the Mark V might protect you better in a T-bone. And a hit to the front fender or the rear fender wouldn't be as severe as right to the passenger cabin. Whereas with an Echo, no matter where it got hit, chances are it would be a serious hit.
Then, to use another example. You could take said Echo and run it into a telephone pole and probably walk away. Try that in my '57 DeSoto and, well, there's a good chance that the funeral would be closed-casket. But then run that Echo into the back of my DeSoto, and I'd probably barely feeil it, while the other guy would probably be wearing his little car!
Then there's instances where what constitutes a fixed barrier for some cars does not for others. Case in point, the telephone pole out in front of my house. Back in the 80's a drunk in an old early 70's F-series whacked it at high speed and snapped it like a twig. It destroyed his truck, although he did survive without too much damage. They have no idea how fast he was going, but the impact pulled down the telephone pole behind it, too. Try that at a speed that high in an Echo or other small car, and you'll probably just smear yourself.
Back around 1980, a friend of my Mom was in a pretty bad accident in her VW Bug. Other vehicles involved were a late 70's Impala wagon, some generic mid-70's domestic sedan, and a tractor trailer. Well, the Bug was cubed, the Impala was reduced to about half its original length, I forget about what happened to the other car (it just hit the overturned trailer I think), but the only one seriously hurt was the truck driver!
So no, you're not going to be totally safe, no matter what you're driving. Some vehicles are better in some types of accidents, and some are better in others, and often it just comes down to luck. There's a tractor trailer out there somewhere with your name on it, and when your number's up, ain't nothing you can do about it. Just don't stop for that hitchhiker, Nan. :shades:
You would think with all the interest in safety people agonizing over the relative difference between a large sedan and sub compact would stop to consider that both are death traps compared to mass transit or walking to work.
For example, a few weeks ago some nut stabbed a tourist, injuring him critically, on a the New York Metro. A tragedy. Thank heavens he was caught soon.
Boy did the press go nuts. I even saw a Japanese television crew looking to interview commuters. After walking around them and taking my seat on the train, I got to reading my newspaper. There, buried in the metro section, was a brief couple paragraphs listing just some of the weekend auto fatalities in the city.