GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda...Who will sell you your next car?

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Comments

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I like the Audi A3 as well, but it's probably a little smaller than I'd like. I plan on leaving no stone unturned, so I'll be considering about everything under $35k and will go used if possible.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Quick....the No 2 selling auto in the US through April 2006?
    Which domestic automaker outsells Toyota by 50% in the midsized segment?
    Which former No 1 auto has slipped to 4th and almost lower?
    Which rising star lost sales relatively on a month to month basis?

    These all include fleet sales which are not broken out separately.

    Without DC's results yet: Top 11 name plates
    monthly sales: Jan-Feb-Mar-Apr : YTD
    1. Camry........27 - 27 - 29 - 40 : 134,000
    2. Corolla......25 - 25 - 32 - 36 : 118,400
    3. Civic..........25 - 25 - 29 - 31 : 109,800
    4. Accord.......22 - 25 - 30 - 32 : 108,500
    5. Malibu/G6....34 - 24 - 26 - 24 : 107,600
    6. Impala.........22 - 19 - 24 - 26 : 90,400
    7. Altima.........17 - 20 - 24 - 20 : 80,900
    8. Cobalt.........18 - 14 - 21 - 19 : 71,700
    9. Taur/Sab........15 - 17 - 20 - 15 : 66,600
    10. Fus/Mil/Zep....15 - 13 - 17 - 20 : 64,800
    11. Focus..........13 - 14 - 16 - 18 : 60,200
    12. Sonata........12 - 14 - 18 - 16 : 58,600

    GM and Ford obviously have huge fleet sales which hurt profits generally. Hyundai also has significant sales to fleets estimated in the 30% range.

    Can anything stop the Corolla and Civic from racing to the top position in tandem as fuel prices go out of sight?

    Why is the FMZ triplet from Ford being kept to such low numbers? Is this the real 'heart' of Ford's retail sales in the midsized segment? 15-20,000 units a month?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Can anything stop the Corolla and Civic from racing to the top position in tandem as fuel prices go out of sight?

    Doesn't look like anything will. I can't beleive the numbers of Corollas Toyota sells. Isn't that car getting a little old by now.

    Why is the FMZ triplet from Ford being kept to such low numbers? Is this the real 'heart' of Ford's retail sales in the midsized segment? 15-20,000 units a month?

    Looks that way. Ford SUV/Truck sales are tanking too. Just to many good cars in the family sedan market which Ford let go for to long. Hard to win people back.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,817
    i wonder what the demographics of the car sales are?
    get a car, replace a car, add a car?
    i have an suv that i drove about 23k/year. 2 years ago, i bought a focus and still have the suv. now i drive the suv 12k/year(trips and snowy commutes) and the focus 11k/yr(regular commutes and errands).
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yep it's 12 months from a Corolla remake.. Serendipitous timing too of the Civic remake when fuel goes north of $3/gal.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Based on the traffic and actual sales over the last 30 days there is a strong move to unload any truck or SUV again just as there was in Sept. Only now I think it's stronger since gas hit $3 for the second time in 7 months and seems to want to go higher.

    F250's, Sequoia's, TrailBlazers, Tacoma's, Ram's all of them are being dumped as the 'commuting' vehicle. The TradeIn values stink as well but many went through this in the Fall so they know how much the fuel has depreciated the value of the big rigs.

    IMO it's bad timing for GM, Ford and Toyota to start a huge push on monster trucks and SUV's .... unless one or more of them has a rabbit or two up the sleeve.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The G6 is a disaster for build quality. Easily the biggest piece of garbage in GM's stable at the moment. I'd even put the Cobalt above the Pontiac in that right. I honestly don't believe that GM killed the Cavalier so much as they just switched it to the Pontiac lineup instead and replaced the car with the vastly superior Cobalt for Chevy.

    Your crazy with that statement. :confuse: The G6 is a nice ride and isn't a disater like you claim. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    First Drive: 2007 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano F1

    This is the Sexiest car in the world in my eyes. :shades:
    Well maybe right next to a 1994' Ferrari 512 TR ;)

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=114909#11

    Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Nice........................
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Ya like it, eh ?

    So do I. Infact truthfully I should of said second sexiest car in the world next to the Buick Velite Roadster. :blush:

    Rocky
  • mopowahmopowah Member Posts: 68
    I'll take one....in red. ;)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    It is a disaster by my standards, coming from 3 Accords. I don't usually set them so low, that's why the G6 doesn't garner my attention. But every single one that I look at for the Auto shows is typical GM of yore. Unfinished edges, unsupportive seats, chintzy feeling controls, could be stripped by a child. David Hasselhoff called, said he wants "KITTS" steering wheel back. Why oh why do I have to spend 27 grand just to get a stick and even still it is mated to a Pushrod? In a world of 5 and 6 speed Autos, why only 4? The Aura is a much stronger entry even thought there are some quirks with it that I don't care for.

    Based on the supposed concept car that was to resemble the G6 (S/C, 300hp, 6 spd, AWD, sharp body lines) I was expecting a strong entry. We got a reincarnated Cavalier.

    You like it Rocky? Fine. I found it to be econobox like. But I guess Edmunds is only for posting positive things about GM cars. :mad:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...an objective opinion of the G6 from a guy called "anythingbutgm." The G6 could be finished better than a Lexus LS430 and outperform a Ferrari and you'd still bash it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I like the G6 GTX alot. Edmunds only is posting positive things about GM ? Well you obviously didn't read the bias review of the top trim Azera, Avalon, vs. a Buick Mid-level CXL. If they would of through in a CSX, it would atleast been a fair comparison. Instead they pulled a Motor Trend type test that is biased as heck. Sure they have to write some positive things about GM. What are they gonna do write a negative review on the new sUV's that blow the competition away ? Your name says it all pal. ;)

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    If the car was finished like a Lexus I'd have nothing to harp on ;) It hasn't even met Kia levels so lets not get too far ahead of ourselves now.

    Back to the GM lovefest kids...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Ain't that the truth lemko. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    OMG please. The Civic that you worship isn't at Kia levels for ergonomics. ;)

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Care to back up those faults Rocky? or is that just a "I know you are but what am I" pointless backlash?

    Something tells me you are going by what you read elsewhere without even analysing the actual car...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...next he'll be comparing the G6 to a Yugo or a Trabant. Such hyperbole.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well the materials used are good, but the Design and ergonomics are so awkward I'd have to pull out a blue print to find everything I needed to drive the car. I can look at interior photo's and get a very good idea of the lay-out and how messed up a car is. It's not layed-out like the Well thought-out TL ;)


    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    No he'll compare the G6 to econobox Geely Chinese car that's made out of tin and still bash the G6. :sick:

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    At the moment, my next purchase was going to be either from Acura, Infiniti, Audi or Mercedes. But with the recent gas ripoffs... er crisis we are looking at RAV4's.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    You guys like your Garbage Motors products, fine. I have given Kudos where Kudos are due. I'll do the same for all brands, nothing is perfect. Just because GM products don't offer a whole lot to rave about in my eyes doesn't mean that I am coming from blind GM hatred.

    Since I am not swooning over the latest GM wonderbomb, I'll never be accepted as anything but biased huh?

    Oh well :shades:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,769
    Just because GM products don't offer a whole lot to rave about in my eyes doesn't mean that I am coming from blind GM hatred.

    Since I am not swooning over the latest GM wonderbomb, I'll never be accepted as anything but biased huh?


    ummmm... here's just a shot in the dark ... maybe your NAME indicates bias?? Ya think?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    doesn't do anything to really gross me out, but at the same time it doesn't wow me either. Now I'll admit I do like the coupe version.

    Now there is too much plastic on the interior for my tastes, but at least it lines up better and does seem to be a step up from the Grand Am it replaced.

    I think GM does need to get on the ball and start getting out more 5- and 6-speed automatics. Even for those of you who swear by the 4-speed and that it's fine, at least putting in an extra gear or two would be one less thing to find fault with.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,056
    But with the recent gas ripoffs... er crisis we are looking at RAV4's.

    Don't let this get spread out too far because it'll ruin my reputation, but I'm actually starting to think of the viability of something like a Dodge Caliber, Honda Civic or a Yaris!

    My original dream had been either a V-6 Altima or something with a Hemi, but the more I thought about it, with gas prices and insurance and such, I downgraded that to a 4-cyl Altima or a V-6 Charger.

    But now, even with my 3 1/2 mile commute to work, I'm actually thinking more towards fuel-sipper. I doubt if I'd ever have the guts to buy something as tiny as a Yaris, but I guess stranger things have happened. :P

    Or maybe I'll just say damn the fuel economy, focus more on purchase price, and pick up this little gem... :shades:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    It's a screen name. Nothing more than a name. GM is one of my least favorite brands out there, always has been. But breaking down by product, I have given props where necessary. Just the other day I was swooning over the Buick Enclave if that qualifies... I have been posting on the Edmunds forums for years now, I welcome anyone to read my past posts, you may be surprised at what I harp on and acknowledge as good.

    But last I checked, one didn't have to be a GM fan to post on Edmunds unless they changed the rules. :confuse:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I do know that Rocky has ties with the UAW so he has a lot riding on the success of the General. And Lemko has a fleet of cars fitting for Wilfred Brimley and they are all GM which as I am aware of he has owned nothing but GM with a Chrysler and Ford somewhere in there? Also has a lot riding on the success of our friend up in Detroit.

    Wonder what kind of "Objective" review I would expect for a car such as a Toyota RAV4? :P
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    My wife is trying to figure out how to get me to buy her the G6 Convertible. :sick:

    at least putting in an extra gear or two would be one less thing to find fault with.

    Nope if GM started putting in a 6 speed this afternoon people like anythingbutgm will complain that its not a 7 speed like some makers are coming out with.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    :D

    I don't think GM deserves the number 1 spot that they have attained for so many years. Their efforts don't show it that's for sure. They are a big, out of control mess. Their management thinks its still 1965 and they have burned a lot of people I know with their marvelous product. For some reason, the decreasing market share and the turmoil that they are seeing right now doesn't seem like some wacky freak of nature. Obviously, I am not alone in my impressions? :confuse:

    And no, I won't use their Consumer Reports ratings as a defense. It is all about personal experience here. I don't rely on forums to make my arguments. No car builder is perfect, but I have owned more cars than the years I have been alive... from all kinds of makes and models. That is as objective as your going to get. :D;)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Curious snakeweasel. What advantages do you find with the G6 vert. over say a Toyota Solara convertible. It is obvious that Pontiac used the Solara as a styling boiler plate.

    Just curious.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Maybe a little thing like the G6 is a hard top convertible and the Solara a soft top.

    If the G6 and Solara Coupes are any measuring stick, expect the G6 to be at least slightly biased toward the driving experience.

    The Solara is just a big ole marshmallow.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    First off I didn't say I liked it I said my wife wants me to get her one.

    Secondly the one thing the G6 has is that its a hard top convertible. Nuff said.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    "Nope if GM started putting in a 6 speed this afternoon people like anythingbutgm will complain that its not a 7 speed like some makers are coming out with."

    Yup, automakers are foolish for making advances in tranny technology for the sake of fuel efficiency and performance.

    Why is the 6 speed tranny making its way into new GM products like the Aura and GMT900's? If the 4 speed is so great, and more cogs are pointless, why join the foray? Heck, why bother with airbags, TCS, ABS, or MCD?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    this little gem!

    It wouldn't link up pal....

    Rocky
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    want Packard or AMC or some junk like that. Just because they had an American Car emblem does not mean you should buy them. What do you guys judge what emblem the car has on it? I don;t get why that has a bearing on your decesion to buy it. I buy the best car that fits me not what emblem it has on it.

    about the Accord and C&D being favorable I agree the styling is off. No problem there but you guys are owning Buick and Caddy;s. I mean those are totally different cars than the Accord. I'm not saying Buick and Caddy suck but I;m just saying Honda is a "sport company" just like Pontiac or Mazda is. Honda is not a traditional mid luxury or tradional luxury like Buick or Caddy is they are a sport brand.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Yup, automakers are foolish for making advances in tranny technology for the sake of fuel efficiency and performance.

    Because half the time its shoving in another gear between 1st and 4th that makes it a 5 speed. Top gearing still remains practically the same and all you do is go through one more shift to get to where you were with the 4 speed. Why do that?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Why should GM get rid of the pushrods ? Then ya'll would knock them for building Japanese clones. My gosh it's a losing battle. OTOH why build OHV engines when there is no reason to when both last about the same. ;)

    Rocky
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Heck, why bother with airbags, TCS, ABS, or MCD?

    Or hard top convertibles?

    Yup, automakers are foolish for making advances in tranny technology for the sake of fuel efficiency and performance.

    Transmissions alone do not make the fuel efficiency happen. There is a lot of science in matching the right gear ratio with the engine's torque and hp curve.

    GM's engines traditionally have a wider torque curve than the competition. That is why the relatively heavy Impala with a 3.8 and 4 speed auto gets similar mileage to the smaller Camry.

    As GM is changing its engines to meet market demand, so to is it changing its auto trans.

    I wonder if cars rushing out with 7 speed autos will see real mpg benefits without significant changes to the engines.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    well had gm been up to date to begin with, those type of comments would not be made. it seems like you have to drag gm kicking and screaming in opposition to give the consumer what they want. for gods sakes please gm please give us a more transmission choices. the 4 spd's and pushrods need to be retired immediately.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I think the additional gears help performance as much or more than fuel economy.

    Since my wife took delivery of her 06 Ford 500 company car with a CVT, I've gained great appreciation for multiple ratios. The CVT allows for the engine to rev to it's torque peak at virtually any speed, which makes it responsive while at speed (the car is still slow from a start). It will run about 1700rpm whether cruising at 50 or 80mph.

    My suburban OTOH, has 4 speeds, there are so many instances where an extra gear ratio between 2nd and 3rd would be helpful. It would be nice to just kick down a gear to gain 1000rpm instead a jump of 2K+ rpm. When I'm towing it's down right painful, with the large space between 2nd & 3rd gear because the engine doesn't have enough torque at 2500rpm, so I have to run 4000+rpm to go up a hill, when an extra gear would allow me to run, say 3000rpm and I'd have enough power to pull up a grade w/o always reving the engine to 4-5k rpm all the time.

    Another example, that I posted earlier on one of the threads regarding a 3 way comparison test between a v6 300, 3.8 Lucerne and a 3.0 AWD CVT Merc Montego. The Merc weighed almost 200lbs more than the Lucerne and the Lucerned had more torque at a lower rpm, yet was slower to 60, 40-60, and qtr mile. I'm certain gearing is the issue and is why I don't like driving many of GMs vehicles. IMO, they tend to be over geared and require to much throttle input to downshift.

    The Acura TL I test drove yesterday was great. The trans was always eager and quick to down shift and which made it very entertaining to drive. I'd still prefer a manual, but at least I could live with an auto like that.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    well gm should get rid of pushrods, becuase mostly everyone else has, this is a dated engine design that has served its time. Technology is avail. for gm to build affordable OHC engines, like other manufactures. I dont want a piston slapping engine or the unrefined noises that a pushrod makes. I know some will argue that gm has the pushrod as refined as a OHcammer, but i dont think so. pushrods shake and shimmer and there not technically advanced as an OHC.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well okay, but I still think GM can eliminate the piston slap some claim to get. I'm not sold on switching engine technology to match everyone else if they think the future engine is going to be something different. Time will tell. Like dad says atleast I can still work on a pushrod, and don't have to take it to the techno wonders at the dealership where your served a saw along with a bill with enough zero's to make
    Bill Gates, "huff and puff" :surprise:

    Rocky
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Since my wife took delivery of her 06 Ford 500 company car with a CVT, I've gained great appreciation for multiple ratios. The CVT allows for the engine to rev to it's torque peak at virtually any speed, which makes it responsive while at speed (the car is still slow from a start). It will run about 1700rpm whether cruising at 50 or 80mph.

    Well, CVT is a different animal from the seven speed auto. I agree that it has a lot of promise.

    There are reliability issues even with the best of them. GM had a bad run of luck with its original CVT supplier. I do hope GM is working on CVT options with better suppliers.

    It would be nice to just kick down a gear to gain 1000rpm instead a jump of 2K+ rpm. When I'm towing it's down right painful, with the large space between 2nd & 3rd gear because the engine doesn't have enough torque at 2500rpm, so I have to run 4000+rpm to go up a hill, when an extra gear would allow me to run, say 3000rpm and I'd have enough power to pull up a grade w/o always reving the engine to 4-5k rpm all the time.

    I have never towed anything. Nor have I ever driven a truck without a manual. I will defer to your experience.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Like dad says atleast I can still work on a pushrod, and don't have to take it to the techno wonders at the dealership where your served a saw along with a bill with enough zero's to make

    Now that's still a stretch. Even as GM now calls them: "cam in block" engines, still plenty to go wrong that a do-it-himself person will struggle with.

    I've owned many OHC and OHV engines, I've never had any issues with them regarding internals. It's always been the electronics with the fuel or ignition systems that have failed and these are hard to diagnose with just a socket set and screw driver.

    When the fuel pump died on my Suburban (nearly $450 just for the damn pump), not like I was going to drop a 31 gallon fuel tank in my driveway.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    There are reliability issues even with the best of them. GM had a bad run of luck with its original CVT supplier. I do hope GM is working on CVT options with better suppliers.

    Unfortunately, Ford, from what I've been reading will discontinue use of the CVT in the 500 next year. I haven't read to many issues with them. Not that the 500 message boards are popular, but most seem to be having good service with the CVT. My wife only has about 6000 miles on her 500 so far, so we'll see how it lasts.

    Nissan seems to be making the biggest bet on CVTs. I believe in the redesigned Sentra and Altima (don't know about the Maxima), a CVT will be the only auto trans available.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    OHV have their place, I agree. I have never said they didn't. But for a car with "sporty" intentions, a motor running out of breath as the revs climb dulls the experience. And obviously GM recognizes this since I have read that an overhead Cammer is getting dropped in the G6 for 07'.

    BTW, for what its worth, the G6 ran Edmunds slalom at 61.5mph while a Solara coupe ran it at 60.9mph. Pretty close. I would expect the added weight of a HT over the ST may even things out in the handling dept.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Now that's still a stretch. Even as GM now calls them: "cam in block" engines, still plenty to go wrong that a do-it-himself person will struggle with.

    You obviously don't know how smart "dad" is. Dad could take his engine apart and put it back togeather again. Dad is mechanically inclined just like my uncle Mickey who can literally fix anything that "dad" can't LOL :blush:

    I already have "dad" plenty of work when he retires. My vehicles this winter will get fixed and be like brand new. My pops get's called by machine repairmen sometimes at work for help on some machinery that they get stumped on which is rare of course. ;)

    Rocky
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    You obviously don't know how smart "dad" is

    I have no reason to doubt your dad's intelligence and mechanical ability. Still, engine management issues are dificult to diagnose without the proper equipement (sure you could take a multitester to each sensor, but my god that would daunting), makes it tough for the avg. joe to fix himself. Doesn't matter where the cam is. How about GMs VVT pushrod engines? Just one more thing to trouble shoot when the engine just isn't running exactly right.

    But I'm not going to avoid things just because they are hard to work on. That's what I pay the shop to do.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That is very true diesel ;)

    Rocky
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