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Comments
Rocky
Rocky
My advice,
Rocky
GM, Ford and Chrysler will pump all there R&D mony into destroying the asain invasion.
Rocky
And you know this as a fact?
I find it absurd, that you seem to present it as a fact. Yes, Hyundai is climbing and may be at the top. It is still a prediction, and you have to acknowledge that. We are all entitled to our own opinions and predictions in this forum, but presenting predictions as facts simply shows your arrogance.
10 years down the line is a long way off, yes Hyundai may be there, or it could be Toyota or Ford or GM or Chery (ok thats a stretch).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I just feel claustrophic. Somehow the Altima, Charger, and Fusion, all of which are smaller cars (by EPA interior volume, even the Charger is a bit smaller than the Impala) just seem to fit me better, and don't give me that claustrophobic feeling.
I'd say if there was one GM car that had a shot at getting my money, it would be the Buick Lucerne. I like the styling, and the inside feels roomy and comfy enough to me.
Per the Buick Lucerne, I heard a man exclaim, "I'm gonna be a Buick man again!" I couldn't think of a better endorsement for the car.
The domestics aren't that far away from Toyota and Honda. I sat in the new 2007 Camry and I noticed little difference between its interior quality and that of just about every domestic. However, I did like the funky Jetsons dashboard of the Civic. I would take a Civic hybrid over the dorky Prius any day.
Only if your a lemming. With a few possible exceptions any make or model is going to treat you well so get what you like. You're the one who is paying for it, your the one who is going to be driving it for years so get what you want.
So unless you're a snob forget what the neighbors think and get what you like.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
She likes the little quarter windows in the front doors, and the way it operates silently half the time.
I guess Toyota will sell her her next car.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The popularity of the car is effectively a vote of confidence by the consumer. For a bread-and-butter car such as a mid-sized sedan, a lack of popularity for a given model is a clear indicator that consumers prefer the other alternatives.
If I was in the market for such a car, I'd want to know why others such as myself opted to buy some cars, while avoiding others. It would be foolish for consumers to completely ignore the feedback of their fellow car owners and the car's resulting reputation.
I would also be interested in the car's popularity for the sake of resale value. A car that nobody wants will be more difficult to sell or trade-in, and will have a lower value, than is a car that people do want.
I find it interesting that the Big 2.5 supporters continually find the need to make excuses for their chosen brands, it's just one alibi after the next. It's odd that some feel the need to go out of their way to offer excuses for multi-billion dollar multinational corporate behemoths that would treat you like discarded trash if and when they sold you a lemon...
The popularity of any car, or anything for that matter, is more a function of marketing than anything else. popularity is no indication of quality, I mean McDonalds is the most popular place to eat but their foods not that great. Popularity is more of image than substance. I never consider how popular something is when deciding what to purchase.
As for resale value it is not that big of a deal. FWIW the cry of "better resale value" seems to be trying to justify paying more. Most of the time higher resale value comes at the cost of a higher initial price (a downside to a popular commodity). If I pay $2500 more for car 'A' than for car 'B' car 'A' better be worth $2750 more than car 'B' 3 years down the road. It just doesn't happen. Finally as I said before you have to drive the car for at least a few years. I rather drive a car I like and get a lower resale value than drive a car I don't like and get a higher resale value.
It's odd that some feel the need to go out of their way to offer excuses for multi-billion dollar multinational corporate behemoths that would treat you like discarded trash if and when they sold you a lemon...
Yeah like how Toyota has been treating my sister with that :lemon: they sold her.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Nonsense. We know that the average consumer prioritizes reliability, and the top sellers in the US market exemplify that priority. Marketing won't substitute for a reputation of unreliability, and cars such as the Camry clearly earned its reputation for reliability.
popularity is no indication of quality
Popularity is an indication that the product provides what people want. And since reliability is an important attribute to consumers, you can presume that the popular bread-and-butter choices will be driven by perceived reliability. As it turns out, we knows that Accords, Corollas, Civics and Camrys tend to be highly reliable -- usually, the marketplace is correct in getting what it wants, which is why it voted with its dollars as it did.
As for resale value it is not that big of a deal.
Resale value is a measure of what the used car market thinks of a car, which will be based upon demand for and supply of that car. If the car has low demand, then the market has made a negative judgment about the car. Since we know that the market places a premium on reliability, then resale value is a good barometer for what you can expect.
Anyone who studied economics should understand that this is a fairly basic principle at work here. If a car is unpopular, then chances are good that it probably sucks, particularly if it is in the small- or mid-sized sedan segment that dominates the top ranks of the US passenger car market. Bad cars become unpopular because enough people will have been burned by them for the word to have gotten out, and consumers will act accordingly once they have that information.
BTW I'd say 40% of the people in my area are from the NE, including me.
No?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Thats nonsense the average consumer prioritizes their perception and top sellers in any market explote or create that perception. There are firms on Madison ave. that make fortunes creating and shaping those perceptions. While marketing may or may not make up for a poor product it can create the perception that brand 'X' is better than brand 'Y when there is none (or even if brand 'Y' is better). Popularity is more about perception than reality, hey thats why the price on sneakers triples when Michael Jordans name goes on it. You just have to realize the most popular is not always the best.
Popularity is an indication that the product provides what people want.
No popularity is an indication of what people think they want. Again Madison ave. spend billions trying to convince people that they want brand "x" and not brand 'Y'.
As it turns out, we knows that Accords, Corollas, Civics and Camrys tend to be highly reliable
As it turns out with few exceptions every car made today is highly reliable. Its just that many have the perception that Hondas and Toyotas are the only ones that won't fall apart after 25K miles. A perception that is not true.
Resale value is a measure of what the used car market thinks of a car,
Resale value is based on supply and demand. the general public might have the perception that a car is great, but if there are 25,000 used ones out there and only 15,000 buyers the price drops.
Anyone who studied economics should understand that this is a fairly basic principle at work here.
I have studied economics, I have a degree in it. Anyone who truly understand economics will tell you that perception plays a very strong role in all of this. I know people that have cars with less than 100k miles on them that are nicking and diming them to death. Yet they think their individual cars are much better than mine (131,500 miles before anything went wrong and it was a sensor that cost $200 to fix) simply because they own a Honda or a Toyota. Perception is everything and it creates its own reality, and companies spend billions to create and maintain it.
Again popularity is meaning less unless your either a snob or a lemming
Again resale value is just justification for paying more and is pretty meaningless when all things are considered.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm not sure what "highly reliable" means to you, but reviewing surveys such as JD Power shows that this not the case. Certainly cars are more reliable than they once were, but as a relative measure today, some clearly stack up better than others.
Anyone who truly understand economics will tell you that perception plays a very strong role in all of this.
And in the case of mass market cars, that perception is built upon a large mass of data that informs consumers that cars such as Camrys are consistently reliable.
To believe people such as yourself is to believe that you are smarter than the average consumer. I have absolutely no reason to believe such a thing based upon what you have written. In this case, I'm betting on the average mid-sized and small car buyer, rather than you.
Now before anyone dumps on me I am not saying Camry's are lemons, just my sisters. I know anyone can produce a bad car now and again and my sister just got the bad apple from that barrel.
I just think its interesting that her car goes in for repairs with the regularity of a clock and she thinks its such a great car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So, if sales/popularity are any indication, does that mean the 1980 Citation is the best car of all time? :P
Highly reliable means getting beyond what JD powers tracts. And I don't follow Consumers Rip-offs because they have proven to be completely worthless. Seeing what written on these boards and what the people who actually drive them say, that tells me a lot more than anything else.
And in the case of mass market cars, that perception is built upon a large mass of data that informs consumers that cars such as Camrys are consistently reliable.
I am not saying that Camrys are unreliable, just that they are not the super cars that some people make them out to be. Its just that almost any car out there treated right should get you 200,000+ miles not just Toyota and Honda.
"To believe people such as yourself is to believe that you are smarter than the average consumer."
There is an entire industry out there that thrives on creating certain perceptions in the average consumer. Now since I don't follow the herd and buy something simply because all the other good little sheep do that doesn't make me any smarter or dumber than anyone else. Just means that I will not let anyone else influence me on what I like, want and need.
If you want to buy a Honda or Toyota because its popular, then by all means be a good little sheep and do so.
As for me if I buy a Honda or Toyota or Ford or Hyundai or Buick, or Nissan or whatever it will be because it fits the parameters that I want it to fit not what someone else wants.
Popularity is for snobs and sheep.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Consumers have far more information at their disposal than they had then. And the market has a way of correcting itself when it makes a mistake, as it did when the Hyundai Excel was first introduced to the market. After price-conscious consumers went to the car in droves, they fled after realizing that the car wasn't worth its low price. In the end, consumers made the smart decision, and that was reflected in both subsequent model years and the used car market.
But in any case, let's remember that automakers such as GM make many of their sales as fleet sales to government agencies, rental car companies, corporate fleets, etc., so sales of their models have to be adjusted to determine their popularity among retail buyers. Currently, GM sells about one-quarter of its vehicles to fleet buyers whose priorities are often different from those of the average consumer's, something which makes itself evident when you drive one.
So I guess we can take it that you aren't very popular yourself....
Plus isn't personal insults the last act of someone who cannot make a counter argument?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thank you!
Granted, the 4Runner may have better resale and reliability, but the Envoy Denali just blew the 4Run away when it came to design and creature comforts.
The 4Run's V8 makes less power, and gets worse EPA mileage estimates. There's less room, the seats aren't as comfortable or as versatile, the heater switches are horribly ugly plastic rocker switches, the gray plastic accents on the dash look and feel cheap. What is everyone raving about? The Envoy Denali is a much, much nicer looking vehicle. Oh- it's quieter and provides a more comfortable, luxurious ride.
If I were making a decision this year, I'd look hard at replacing my 4Runner with a Ford Edge or new Explorer Sport Trac. If I decide I want to go the truck route the F-150 and new Dodge Ram would get a serious look. GM trucks don't do it for me.
If I was replacing my wife's Volvo, probably only 2 domestics would get a look: the Zephyr(sp)and the Lucerne. Both of which have styling and interiors that are heading in the direction.
The Denali is a fine vehicle if you need the room. Much larger than the 4runner. I'd lean that way too. And if you're gonna keep the vehicle 6 years or more resale value is probably down on the list of priorities. The Denali may be less money up front anyway.
Rocky
Ford or Toyota will sell me my next car. GM cars aren't bad, they're just way behind the technology curve, making old Technology work well, but it's old. Since it's all under the car and the hood, most buyers don't know, or care. But I do. Chryslers look great, probably the best over all, IMO, but they still don't drive like I like. Sorry, even the 300 leaves me cold. Nissan, I love the designs, and they feel great on me, but I had an Infiniti before that wasn't the best. I think the French have had an influence there, and not a good one. Nissan to me, is the Chrysler of Japan. Hondas are terrific, but they are a niche player still, don't have RWD or a V-8, so they won't work for me. But my Civic was just amazing...
I don't consider Mitsubishi a car. Hyundai is really great - up to Ford quality, IMO, at least. But still quite tinny, all V-6, and old tech V-6s, FWD. Not for me yet, but coming up. Ditto for sister Kia. Did I miss anybody? Oh yeah, the Europeans. Love the cars, hate the repair bills. Volvo, being a possible exception. If they were still RWD, I'd consider one.
Envoy
2005... 108,000
2004... 135,000 -20%
4Runner
2005... 104,000
2004... 114,000 -8%
Might the 4Runner pass the Envoy this year? It's the trend.
Jan Deliveries:
Envoy.. 4750
4Runner 8500
Nvbanker, GM's full size utes. "you know the best ones made on the market" :P
Rocky
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Our second child, and son, arrived today (9lbs 6oz, 21.5 inches for you number guys) so I've already been setting the wheels in motion in case our '05 Escape proves to be too small for our expanded family. I'd love for my wife to say OK to trading for a Ford Freestyle or Edge but it seems we only agree on leasing a Volvo XC90, Acura MDX, or Land Rover LR3. If my gut feeling is right about the Escape we should be in one of those just mentioned sometime later this year.
Yes I'm a Ford guy but I'm also a car guy. If something outside of the Ford family suits me I will buy it. FWIW, my wive owned a '96 Honda Civic when we tied the knot and it was a piece of garbage. Ford never burned me, my father, or anyone else in my family so I have no use for any one's history lesson on reliability.