GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda...Who will sell you your next car?

gagrice

I followed what looked like a new Ferrari through Carlsbad CA a few days back. Looked like a foxy blonde in the passengers seat. I told my wife that was what I needed, she said no lets go shopping for shoes. $250 later we got out of the Clark's shoe store and my PU had not turned into a Ferrari. Oh well it may be hard on my back getting in and out of one those fancy sports cars.

m1miata

You really don't like Hyundai I take it???
Must be that H which looks like a Honda H.

gagrice

I don't like the Hyundais that I have driven. The Accent is unacceptable on many levels. The Tiburon is cool looking. It is just very uncomfortable for me to drive more than 5 miles. My sister loves it. I have a good friend that has a 4 year old Sonata that is worried he will never get to use the 100k mile bumper to bumper extended warranty that he bought. The car is "flawless" in his words.

nvbanker

"Buy a GM PU truck and it will retain its value long after a car of the same age is rusting in the junk yard."

Buy a Ford PU, Toyota Tundra, or Nissan Titan, and it will retain its value EVEN longer!!!

rockylee

I thought the century long 100K warranty was standard ? :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

True, but you made one mistake pal. GM has a higher resale value then Ford. It always has and always will be that way. Well atleast for the near future. OTOH the Toyota will whip em' all. The Ridgeline already needs a redesign. :surprise:

Rocky

m1miata

Well there is a decade long warranty for drive train. And there is the five year bumper to bumper for the rest.

rockylee

What ? :surprise: You mean all this time I was under the impression that there was a 10 year bumper to bumper warranty on those cars and now you are correcting me ????? :surprise:

Well dang....Then that makes Hyundai even more worthless in my eyes.

Rocky

m1miata

If I was thinking truck, it would be the Tacoma for a small truck, and for larger trucks, I don't know... GM - Ford or Dodge. Dodge would be if it was for sport. As a truck, I don't know GM or Ford, flip a coin.
-Loren

rockylee

Well maybe the 2007' GM trucks would make your decision easier ?

One of my very good friends owns a 06' Tacoma and that thing has been in and out of the shop alot. That composite bed that's suppose to be so bullet proof has cracked and the dealer said it was "operator error". :surprise:

Rocky

m1miata

3yr/36k vs. 5yr. bumper to bumper and 10yr on drive train -- I know which looks better to me. If GM is sure they are matching everyones quality, then bring on the warranty. It is obvious Hyundai has the superior warranty.

Warranty is but one of the problems people face in buying GM. If the cars are perfect, as in zero defects at birth, you still face problems in the buying decision. 1) Style - no new cars, as in really new chassis, engines and presence on the buying lot. 2) Resale value 3) Lack of RWD and Coupes 4) Customer confidence in the company brands future, or future of the company. 5) Reputation for long term durability. 6) Pricing policy. 7) Content -safety items and convience items. Seats with lumbar support and telescopic steering column are not standard on a $30K CTS - WHY?
Other than that - no problem
-Loren

rockylee

True Loren, but Buick finally got a 4 yr. 50K warranty to go along with Cadillac and Saab. Sure I'd like to see a Hyundai matching warranty and it's proof that Hyundai does built very reliable cars to prevent warranty work. GM could earn some street cred if they did such a thing.

Rocky

dino001

Superior management together with engineers and UAW decided long time ago that American consumer cannot possibly want/deserve/like those things. Ancient chassis, old engines, trannys and superior 3/36 warranty - that's what a patriotic American should buy. Those pesky imports - how dare they, especially those horrible Koreans. Lower price, longer warranty and more features nobody is falling for that thing

dino001

Wow - you compare "uspcale" brands from GM with this supposedly terrible low-end bottom-feeder Hyundai. Why not Chevy or Pontiac?

rockylee

Well I can do that also....Would I buy a Impala, over Azera ? Nope. Impala SS is better car than a Azera Limited. Pontiac's Grand Prix GTX as old as it is is better looking inside and out then a Sonata or Azera. The Saturn Aura another bottom feeder blows all Hyundai's away in fit and finish. Wanna do a bottom feeder Chevrolet Corvette Z-06 to Hyundai :P

The Azera and Sonata are new models and still lose IMO to GM. Some were trying to compare Acura TL to Azera :surprise: It's getting out of control comparing apples to oranges. Sure one can find enough reason in there mind to make a comparison, but it's in there minds and doesn't speak to the masses.

Rocky

rockylee

Sales of new luxury car more than double in U.S. market as Mercedes strives to recover.

This article is for the Merc fan Fintail.

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060613/AUTO02/606130344/- 1148/AUTO01

Rocky

m1miata

Ah, the old full pallet of bricks, no doubt :surprise:

rockylee

What do you mean exactly by that ? :surprise:

Rocky :P

m1miata

Wow, nice looking -- looks like an Avalon. :P

rockylee

LOL....Well I agree I always felt that the resemblence was there.

Rocky

m1miata

Load a pallet in your truck and see if something exciting happens. Or is that the second pallet. I can't recall the weight per pallet now???
-Loren

rockylee

LOL....Okay got ya.

Rocky

dino001

Impala SS/Grand Prix over Azera? Perhaps - I doubt, but maybe; depends what you want. I definitely would not buy a nose-heavy V8 with huge torque-steer and ancient chassis, but suit yourself :P Yet, the warranty is still not there.

Z-06? Oh, please... Beyond the current scope of the conversation. Stay focused, Rocky, OK?

Aura - this car still does not exist in reality - you are making comparisons based on some promotional materials, corporate announcements, and the concept. Let it come down to dealerships first and show its real face, also in those lower trims, which that are not even fully announced and shown officially anywhere on any real pictures and then we may talk.

And the warranty is still not there, is it? Not even close. That alone is worth probably another grand minimum in the comparisons.

Agree with you on TL - different market segment, different buyer. It will become releveant if more people cross shop, which we have no evidence so far. Size is not everything, I agree.

rockylee

The aura does exist in reality and will be available at a dealer near you this fall.

Glad we pretty much agree on everything else.

Rocky

fintail

Does anyone in the real world choose that frumpy Grand Prix in any trim level? I never see one that isn't a rental.

rockylee

LOL...Well my aunt has a GTP one and yes they are popular in the midwest because of there FWD configuration. Sure I'd choose a Acura TL over it again like I did last year to be sure.

Rocky

fintail

Aaah yeah must be a midwest thing. They are very seldom seen here. Probably a good used buy.

rockylee

yep.

Rocky

dino001

As for now, Aura is a promise, phantom, a promotional photo. You can't judge fit and finish based on promotional photo of top trim of a carefully selected unit. You might say something about the specs, which appear to be average for the price (XR stickers $28K - there is a lot of good stuff for that). Other aspects of packaging are still a mystery, subject to piecemeal press releases that will always show what is convenient.

Therefore, the car as a viable model to compare and be compared with, does not exist yet. Let it come to my Tampa dealership and to the carshow and then we may say something about it, good or bad.

louiswei

I've seen plenty of those here in da South. Not sure if they are rental or not though.

rockylee

Okay fair enough. I agree actully seeing one in person is the best way one can judge for themselves.

Rocky

nvbanker

"GM has a higher resale value then Ford." Not reliably....

rockylee

Well in Michigan and here in West texas they sure do.

Dodge is the worst out of the bunch.

Rocky

nvbanker

Ok, stand by, I'll check..... :confuse:

nvbanker

My apologies, Rocky, you appear to be right nationwide. According to Manheim:

Chevy 1500 Silverado, 53,000 miles, $15700W - $17450R
Ford F-150 XLT 45,000 miles, $14950W - $16650R
Dodge 1500 Ram 43,000 miles, $12750W - $14250R

Clearly, the Chevy is worth at least a thousand more nationwide. I am surprised, as the Fords are in such demand here - but Manheim is quite reliable for real world values. :surprise:

nvbanker

Toyota Tundra 47,000 miles, $16,950W - $18800R

All of those I surveyed were 2003 base models, 4WD, Ext cab.

Nissan didn't have the Titan out in 03.

baggs32

Isn't the OTD purchase price typically lower for the F-150 though? They are also really easy to find no matter where you look so it's not a wonder the value is lower IMO.

nvbanker

That can be a function of being the #1 selling truck for a century - they are plentiful.....

gagrice

Having looked for a good used Ford or GM truck before I bought this latest GMC. It is very difficult to find a good used domestic truck for a decent price. I looked at several nice 2 year old trucks that the owners or dealers wanted more than I paid for a new one during the big GM blowout last summer. That sale did have a negative impact on used vehicles I am sure. I believe I could get nearly what I paid for this truck a year ago, if I held out long enough. On paper the GM may have a slight edge on Ford. I think on any given day it is a tossup based on the individual truck.

PS
Many of the newer trucks I looked at had mods such as lift kits etc. That was another reason to buy new.

nvbanker

You're right - trucks depreciate quite slowly, I think unless you're going fairly old, over 5 years, you should buy a truck new, buy a Cadillac used.

A used GMC truck is hard to find comparatively. They sell at low volumes, and aren't free often.

gagrice

Good advice. I looked at 3 year old trucks with 120K miles and they were still priced at $20k. I got a great 2005 Sierra hybrid with everything but leather for $24k. Love that quiet 5.3L engine and Bose XM radio. I still like the pre 2000 Chevy PU looks better.

baggs32

That can be a function of being the #1 selling truck for a century - they are plentiful.....

That was my point. It's not a bad thing that a used F-150 has a lower value than a GM truck in the world of super high volumes. The laws of supply and demand tell us that the one which is more readily available should be the one with the lower price tag even though that's not always the case. Brand loyalty helps drive that law in the pickup world in a big way.

lemko

...loves her F-150. She works as large animal veterinarian in rural Maryland and uses the truck for work not image. She's seriously considering another F-150 or upgrading to the larger F-250.

PS: My sister bought her kid an F-150 "Power Wheels" for his birthday this week.

gagrice

I was behind a lifted 3/4 ton crew cab Ford yesterday. The driver a young lady. A big decal on the back window. "Silly Boy, Trucks are for Girls". I would venture to say that over half the monster trucks and SUVs on the street are driven by women. My ex-wife wanted my Suburban in our divorce. She never liked driving her Camry. I can't say as I blame her. I liked my Suburban Much better than her Camry.

fintail

I bet it's a blast to see her park that thing in a crowded shopping center parking lot...

rockylee

Gosh I'm still in love with the new 2007' Volvo S-80. Motor Trend did a "first test" article that left me drooling. Unfortunately I fear the MSRP on the V-8 will be way out of my league of affordability :sick:

Rocky

P.S. I will keep my eye on the S60R which should be recieving a update I'd think pretty soon.

heel2toe

Rocky, you like Volvos? You know who owns them and the details about which platforms are shared amongst divisions of that parent company?

m1miata

I thought you were a GM fan. Why not buy a CTS with the 3.6 V6? I think they are giving good discounts, as Edmund's shows some good typical price paid. If I had the big bucks like you do, I would consider one.
-Loren

rockylee

I've always admired Volvo's because of there bold styling and safety. The S-80 IMO is by far the most beautiful one of them all. It speaks "Scandinavian Luxury" in strides. Maybe it's the Norweigan blood in me that loves this special vehicle.

Yes I'm aware Ford owns Volvo and yes the next Lincoln Town Car (?) is suppose to share this platform.

It's to bad Bill Ford didn't listen to Volvo when designing the safety in the fusion :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

I thought you were a GM fan.

Loren I will always be a GM fan, but I'm quite upset at GM right now. It seems they get me all excited and let me down and I'm really getting frusterated. :sick:

Why not buy a CTS with the 3.6 V6?

#1 not enough power #2 Not even close to enough technology for the money.

Loren, where's the ventialted seats at ? Where's the Megawatt DVD-Audio 5.1-8.1 Surround Sound at ? Where's the pwr tilt and telescoping steering wheel at ? Where's the Voice Recognition system at ? Where's the
"state of the art" navigation system at ? Where's the adptive cruise, headlights, swivel headlamps, etc etc etc at Loren ?

Yes I can get one helluva a deal on a CTS 3.6 with a 6 speed, but a fully loaded one with the technology of a Sonata at a MSRP of 44K fully loaded minus $5-6K off for my GM discount and maybe a $750-1500 rebate still puts the price at around $37-39K range. The current CTS loaded isn't worth more than $35K fully loaded, let-alone $44K.

I think they are giving good discounts, as Edmund's shows some good typical price paid.

I'm not sure what the rebates are Loren, because if I was going to buy one it would be the CTS we've seen in the spy photo's or the 60 minutes video. The current CTS's interior is ugly and unrefined. Okay it's about Kia level

If I had the big bucks like you do, I would consider one.

Loren, I'm poor. I'm not rubbing elbows with the California elites like you, let alone beable to afford to live out there. Who's got the bling bling now ? :P I think his name is Loren, and I bet his first name is really Ralph, eh ? :shades:

Rocky :P