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Comments
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And even though I have the trailer, I don't want to have to hook it up to the SUV everytime I need gas for the lawnmower or want to get a few bags of potting soil. Sorry, but I just don't like to haul things like that, gas in particular, around inside my vehicle.
Yes, but you've got to go through the hassle of picking it up, paying outrageous rental fees, etc., and you still have to put gas in it.
I'm not saying that everyone needs a truck like mine. And if you live in an apartment in the city, maybe you could get by without a truck. But I will stand by my earlier statement. You go buy yourself even a little beater truck, say a 1991 Mazda B2200 like the one I saw today, keep it for one year and then sell it. I predict that before nightfall you will regret your decision to sell it and before another year goes by you'll be shopping for another truck.
I found that my PT hauls some pretty tall stuff compared to a car. Truck? Not sure what I would do with a truck. I think some just like the look, or something about the image more than anything. Which is fine - it's all good. Actually, think back in time, most of the previous models of trucks looked better. Even some older classics.
-Loren
You can tell the difference between a "I rarely if ever use the bed of a truck" truck from a work truck.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I do believe that the rental fee for one of those is under $20.00.
I'm not saying that everyone needs a truck like mine.
I would rather have the versatility, utility and economy of my station wagon and rent a truck the once in a blue moon that I need one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I did that for 7 years with my Suburban. It is probably the ultimate station wagon. It was not perfect as a PU truck replacement. When I hauled trees I had to lay them flat and lose dirt onto the carpet. And the worst was hauling bags of steer manure. The car would stink for a month afterward.
For me there is NO substitute for a truck. And after you use it for 10 years it will give you the best return on resale. The problem is finding a good used truck for less than you can buy new. When I bought this last one I looked for a month for a used truck. They were either over priced or had 200k miles on them. I personally like the looks of the pre 1999 Chevy trucks. Try to find a clean used one. No one wants to sell unless they get all they paid for them new. Or worse they have spent $5k on lift kits and bling bling and think it made the truck worth more.
Down here in Texas at least, the compact pickup class is pretty rare (as is the midsize SUV class) relative to fullsize pickups and Tahoe-sized vehicles.
I keep thinking that it would be much more versatile than a station wagon would, and would be better at hauling passengers than my truck. But then I look at all the stuff I use my truck for...hauling brush, firewood, dirt, junk to the dump, Home Depot runs, etc. I'm still probably better off with a truck.
With Dodge being so desperate to move their Rams, maybe I should go check 'em out? IMO though, the biggest problem with a Ram is that it would almost require a V-8. The 3.7 V-6 is just overmatched in that truck. In contrast, the Silverado/Sierra are actually tolerable with the V-6.
Sure, a V-8 would be more versatile, but I'd imagine that even a 4.3 Silverado would be more capable than the 165 hp 5.0 in my '85. Looks like the V-6 even has a bit more torque than my old V-8...260 ft-lb versus 245. I guess the one question mark with the newer trucks is their automatic tranny. I've heard bad things about the 4L60E automatic that goes in the half-ton trucks. And in personal experience, my uncle's '97 Silverado has been rebuilt twice! I don't think it's even as durable as the old THM350C that's in my '85.
But keep in mind they rent those trucks by the hour and not by the day. They have a VERY limited number of them and are hardly ever available on the weekend when you need one. Furthermore, if you're going to rent a truck, it's probably cheaper to go to Enterprise or some other rental company than to Home Depot or Lowe's.
I'm taking the current MSRP for a Touring, Nav, Automatic (about $22K) and adding the features for the new Grand Touring (a guess - $3K for leather, heated seats, HID). That adds to ~$25K MSRP, but is only a guess. Hopefully it is much lower. I also assume that the price would be negotiable, so the realistic price of purchase might be more like $21-23K. So you are correct.
These diesels have anywhere up to and over 500 ft lbs of torque. Many guys pull 20k lb plus trailers with these diesel trucks. They are also governed by a different set of rules as far as emissions. So you can buy them in all 50 states even though they pollute a lot more than a small modern diesel engine.
That is not what I am waiting for. I am looking for a 4, 5 or 6 cylinder turbo diesel up to 3.5L. That will be enough to pull 5k-7k lb trailer with ease. If driven conscientiously you should get 35 MPG on the highway. If I can get 24.8 MPG at 65 MPH in my 8000 lb diesel Sprinter RV, there is no reason a 5500 lb PU should get less than 35 MPG with an equivalent diesel engine and 5 or 6 speed auto transmission. The two guys from Brazil that spurred my interest in 1999 averaged 45 MPG from Tierra del Fuego to Prudhoe Bay Alaska. They were driving a Ford Ranger crew cab with a 4 cylinder diesel and 5 speed stick shift.
I think the truck from your picture is what Ford needs to be selling here in the states. I've been saying for a long time that somebody needs to be making a small truck. If that truck had been available with or without the diesel I'd have probably gone that route rather than the F-150 SuperCrew. However, the bed on that one looks to be a foot shorter than the bed on my F-150.
BTW, the fuel mileage you reported on the Sprinter is amazing. What kind of engine does it have in it. I know many of the Freightliner rigs like a lot of UPS drivers are running have Mercedes Diesels in them. Our UPS driver really likes his, but the thing seems to eat up tires in a hurry, but I guess that is to be expected on a delivery truck.
On the 1998 Ford Ranger diesel crew cab. It was a short bed probably 5 feet long. It was built in Brazil. They are also built in several other countries including Australia. When I took the pictures into my local Ford dealer and said this is what I want, he looked dumbfounded. He did not believe that Ford had a Ranger crewcab at the time. None were built by any car company for US consumption. They said they were coming out with an Explorer version in about a year. At that time I would have settled for the midsized crew cab with an inferior gas engine. I think Nissan was the first to bring one here. I liked it but the mileage was marginal. Now crew cab PU trucks are everywhere. Probably the most practical vehicle built.
Its $20 for 90 minutes (IIRC), more than enough time to run your stuff home, unload it and return it.
Furthermore, if you're going to rent a truck, it's probably cheaper to go to Enterprise or some other rental company than to Home Depot or Lowe's.
Not sure about you but I think $20 is cheaper than $45 plus miles.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Funny, I can think of one guy I know who has a Bronze Star that he won in WWII for bravery in combat. He had no problem with buying either a German VW or a Japanese Honda.
I am fully aware of all those things you mentioned but remember that they occurred over a period of approximately 3 years and 9 months most of it (all but pearl harbor and some stuff in Alaska) well away from our shores.
Japan and China have been enemies for centuries, with atrocities committed by the Japanese during WWII that were especially hedious. Try researching Shiro Ishii, but then that was only WWII. As I said things have been going on there for centuries not 45 months.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I guess if we bought and sold within our turf, it would be the only way to satisfy a few people stuck in the past.
Interesting concept, this zero trade. North vs. South would be really interesting. Could only buy cars made in a region. History shows plenty of atrocities from the civil war. A war, if continued to eternity, would have been end of a mighty nation. There is a time to let go.
If a current policy of a Nation or it's people is not to your liking, then simply make your personal choice in not buying their product. Can understand that point of view more so than decades of blame for sins of the father, and fathers, father.
-Loren
The funny thing is that Ford in Cologne made vehicles for the [non-permissible content removed], and ended up sending the profits back to Dearborn at the end of the war. Ford claims that the Germans seized control of it, so that it was out of their hands, but that didn't prevent Hitler from giving Germany's highest civilian award to Henry Ford.
There's a lot of material on this subject, but here's a quick bit from an older article in the Washington Post:
When American GIs invaded Europe in June 1944, they did so in jeeps, trucks and tanks manufactured by the Big Three motor companies in one of the largest crash militarization programs ever undertaken. It came as an unpleasant surprise to discover that the enemy was also driving trucks manufactured by Ford and Opel -- a 100 percent GM-owned subsidiary -- and flying Opel-built warplanes. (Chrysler's role in the German rearmament effort was much less significant.)
When the U.S. Army liberated the Ford plants in Cologne and Berlin, they found destitute foreign workers confined behind barbed wire and company documents extolling the "genius of the Fuehrer," according to reports filed by soldiers at the scene. A U.S. Army report by investigator Henry Schneider dated Sept. 5, 1945, accused the German branch of Ford of serving as "an arsenal of Nazism, at least for military vehicles" with the "consent" of the parent company in Dearborn...
...The [non-permissible content removed] had a clear interest in keeping Opel and German Ford under American ownership, despite growing hostility between Washington and Berlin. By the time of Pearl Harbor in December 1941, the American stake in German Ford had declined to 52 percent, but [non-permissible content removed] officials argued against a complete takeover. A memorandum to plant managers dated November 25, 1941, acknowledged that such a step would deprive German Ford of "the excellent sales organization" of the parent company and make it more difficult to bring "the remaining European Ford companies under German influence."
I don't thing anyone rents them for your stated purpose. If you were going to do that why not just pay Lowes or Home Depot to deliver the stuff you bought to your house. Most projects that people will rent a truck for are not going to be done in 90 minutes.
You don't rent them for the period it takes you to do the project you rent them to bring the materials you need for your home improvement project. Say you are finishing your basement and buy lumber, electrical wiring, dry wall and flooring. You just load it up on the truck, take it home, unload the gear and return the truck.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Tying up cash in something that you need on rare occasion is generally a bad investment, and rarely do I need a truck for anything. If I do, I'll bum one from a friend or rent one, which nets out at a far lower cost.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Precisely, that is why I sold my Passat TDI and kept the truck. We used the back seat about once every two months to take people out to dinner. We can use the old Lexus for that. I don't understand how anyone with a home can survive without a PU. It all comes down to needs and priorities. I go to Home Depot and Lowes at least 4 time per week. Sometimes just little stuff, other times lumber. I am not caught off guard if I have the truck.
Is this tacked on to the delivery charge by the delivery company? It costs me $50 to have a truck load delivered by Home Depot. I wait until I have 3-4 pallet loads of retaining wall blocks or something real long to deliver.
If I can vote, let me say I have never owned a truck and have lived in homes/apts. for a long time --- well since I came out of the womb actually.
Now I use to go to the hardware store every day. But that was when I worked selling paint and hardware
-Loren
I like station wagon type vehicles. My question is if you keep the wagon for 10 years will it be worth percentage wise what a PU truck will be after 10 years? I put forth that the fuel savings are minimal compared to the loss in value over the life of the vehicle. My experience has been that PU trucks hold their value better than cars, SUVs, mini-vans or wagons.
I know lots of Jewish friends who for decades, wouldn't buy a Lincoln because of Henry Ford's admiration for Hitler and hatred for the Jews. That is mostly over though now - the next generation has forgotten.
I've forgiven the current Japanese for their father's aggression against us. My father faught them in the war, but I'm over it. He probably would be too, by now, were he still alive.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree. That was posted for the benefit of the self-styled patriots who think that refusing to buy an Accord is some form of payback for the Bataan Death March.
It's time to torpedo this double standard once and for all. If some of us are going to use car purchases as a proxy for WWII, then let's also remember which Michigan-based automakers did their part to help der Fuhrer.
Amen, hopefully we learn from our past, and try for a better future for everyone, everywhere.
Newer homes are not exempt, I have bought two brand new homes and while I didn't do any repairs there was improvements like landscaping, building patios/decks, finishing unfinished areas (basement), installing fences and interior decorating to name a few.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well I have had mine for 6 years now and I figure that I saved $3-4K so far in gas. With the way gas prices are going in the next 4 years I suspect I could at least double that. So lets be conservative and say $6k savings. Lets also presume that my wagon has no value at that time. Since the wagon cost me about 12K new the depreciation less the gas savings would at the most be $6K (possibly as low as 3-4K). So I would bet that I would come out ahead with the wagon.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The issue is more about your usage. I know people who have lived in the city in apartments that needed pickup trucks, I know people who live in the country and have 10=acres that don't. The thing is that as with SUV's there is a large segment of Pickup Truck drivers who don't need a truck and would be better served with something else. Thats all.
I cannot imagine living in a place like NYC.
NYC has a pretty good public transportation system, as do many large cities. When I lived in the city of Chicago proper I got around mostly by the 'L' or by bus.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
AMEN to that!!!! That is precisely the point I've tried to make here.
If I didn't have two kids (one still in a booster seat) I could get by with a smaller truck and I'd have kept my old Ranger or perhaps bought a newer one with 4 cyl/5 speed. My worn out Ranger with almost a quarter million miles got 20 mpg around town, and the new ones do even better. My dad has a Colorado with the 5 cyl and auto and gets 20+ locally and 27 on the highway. If your truck gets that kind of mileage, economy becomes an almost moot point.
A crew cab truck is an excellent choice for many families and particularly homeowners. My truck will comfortably seat 4 adults PLUS my two kids. The gas mileage is comparable to most MID-SIZED SUVs, and even with the basic towing package, most any truck can tow a minimum of 5000 lbs (even a pseudo-truck Ridgeline boasts that number).
And here's my wagon trump, in how many wagons can you realistically load a 4x8 sheet of plywood and still close the liftgate?
Have never owned a pickup and have a house and very large lot. Have done well with Suburban in past or current 2000 Honda Ody. I find that the advantage of a enclosed space for security and bad weather concerns (climate that has 3-4 months of snow) outweigh the Pickup's only advantage of being able to haul tall or very dirty cargo a limited number of times. Ody has more volume than the Suburban did. Have hauled all kinds of stuff in these vehicles such as plywood, drywall, sod, bales of straw, dimension lumber, furniture, etc.
When I need things such as 12 yards of mulch recently, load of boulders, etc., I have it delivered. Would not want to endure numerous trips to places to load up a pickup. That is a waste of time and probably more expensive than the delivery charge.
Unless one has a full 8 foot PU bed, than smaller PU bed has far less capacity than a Suburban or a minivan. Most minivans and the Suburban will haul 4x8 sheets with the rear hatch closed. Can also haul a limited amount of 10 foot long dimension lumber with rear hatch closed. See many people (non-business) driving PUs but very rarely see anything in the bed. Think that many who own/drive these are merely their fashion statements.
Also, a minivan or Suburban will handle better than a pickup.
If I had to replace Ody this year, would be another Ody. Saw the Nissan 2007 Quest at dealer and it looks interesting. They cleaned up the grille and put in horizontal bars. Looks a lot better than the 2006. Not sure about the interior or dashboard of Quest.
I will give you the enclosed advantage. No one has commented on the resale. The reason, NO wagon or mini-van can compare to a PU truck. A one year old Odyssey will take a $7k hit on trade-in. A one year old PU, Mine in this case, has a trade-in value within $1700 of what I paid new a year ago. No way any car, SUV or mini-van can compare to a PU truck for resale.
Carry that a step further. The Ody according to most posters is lucky to get 20 MPG around town. I get 15 MPG around town with my 1/2 ton PU with 5.3L V8 engine. If I were to put the average 15k miles on that truck it would cost me about $750 more per year in gas. The Ody depreciated more than $750 in that same year.
I do agree a person should get what they feel best suits their needs. It amazes me how many people feel they know more what I need than I do.
Because resale is not a good reason to buy a particular vehicle. Oh the truck really doesn't fit my needs, hard to park in the city, can't take the kids anywhere in it and I never need to haul anything in it, oh and it cost more to run but man look at the resale. :confuse:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Building fences, yard work (that word again), and such ain't my thing. A nice stone or brick yard would be just fine, thank you. And my back says to me, don't do it yourself. No more shoveling or laying bricks or anything to kill that back any more.
-Loren
I could understand a minivan, but why would a Suburban handle better than a pickup truck? Seems to me that a Suburban would be not only heavier, but also more top-heavy than an equivalent pickup. On the plus side though, since a Suburban would have more weight on the rear wheels, it might be harder to throw its rear end out of control than in a pickup.
As for delivery, I ended up losing track of how many dumptruck loads of gravel I had brought out when I had my garage built and driveway extended. But one dumptruck load was 14 cubic yards. Delivery was $55 per truckload, from a place not even a half-mile away. Still, it was well worth it, because if I were doing it myself, that would've been 14 trips up and back, running the danger of overloading the truck (I took a risk with topsoil, but the gravel would've really been pushing it!), plus all the time it would take to shovel out the truck.
I did get three cubic yards of topsoil with my pickup, but I think what I'm going to do next time is just have a full truckload dumped, and then just spread it around as I need to with a wheelbarrow.
Resale can be an important factor, particularly if you don't intend to hold the car for very long, although it may be of questionable value if the premium that usually accompanies it is too high. Paying an extra $3,000 for an extra $1,000 in residual value may not make a lot of sense, all things being equal, but if the numbers were reversed, it would be a no-brainer.
High resale value also helps if the car is totalled or stolen, because your insurance payout will be higher.
One of the best aspects is high residuals is that in the real world, you will probably have an easier time of selling your car as a private party if you have a car that is popular. An unpopular car will be difficult to unload, but you won't have any shortage of phone calls if the car tends to be in demand. If I wanted to sell a 3-year old car, I'd rather be the owner of an Accord than I would a Malibu, any day of the week.
Resale is only really important when all other things are equal. As I said you don't buy the car that doesn't fit your needs or you don't like simply because of a better resale. Now if it is a choice between two cars that fit your needs and that you like with similarly options and gas mileage then by all means consider the resale and purchase costs.
High resale value also helps if the car is totalled or stolen, because your insurance payout will be higher.
The odds of that are slim and do not justify looking at resale as a major point.
One of the best aspects is high residuals is that in the real world, you will probably have an easier time of selling your car as a private party if you have a car that is popular.
Priced properly either car will see in approximately the same amount of time.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Absolutely right. I would NEVER EVER pay MSRP for any car or truck. Anything over Invoice is instantly gone before the ink dries on your signature. At that point you have an OK deal. It is better to get further under Invoice to be safe.
I agree that the Accord will hold it's value better than the Malibu. But the Accord will not come close to any PU truck for resale. Accord suffers from first year loss like all cars. At least 4 grand down the toilet on drive off.
Add to that I would rather drive a PU than most anything else. Except when cruising the back roads of America a sport suspension car is fun to drive. Getting in and out of a car is such a pain in my back. I bang my knee getting into the drivers seat of my wife's LS400. It tweaks my back getting out. Cars for the most part are a waste of steel and resources. There you have it two totally opposing POV.
That may be so. Have not checked. But another factor. How about safety. Do pickups have same standards for structural integrity and safety as do minivans? Do pickups have good crash test results per IIHS and govt? If a Silverado hits a Silverado offset, will drivers be as protected as if 2 Odys hit offset or 2 Siennas hit offset?
Of course, here in US we are all free to choose and buy whatever vehicle we want.