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IMHO it is the the greatest sedan ever built. :shades:
Rocky
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Rocky
Any BMW 3 Series cannot be the greatest sedan ever built.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And I argue or ask the question of why not ????? Everything BMW makes can be argued as simply "the best" money can buy.
Rocky
That is an illogical statement. If everything BMW makes is the best money can buy then any one BMW model is better than all the others which contradicts the original statement. There can only be one best that money can buy.
Now I will admit that BMW makes sedans that are better than the 3 series, hence the 3 series cannot be the greatest sedan ever made.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well out of all BMW's sedans one could make a case for the BMW M5, but that isn't the best sedan money can buy. Perhaps my "money can buy" should of been more clearly written as the best value money can buy. which the BMW-335i currently is IMO when all factors are considered.
Rocky
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wasn't much of a BMW fan before this car came out. They finally engineered a car that blows away the Infiniti G35, Acura TL and it's Type-S, Audi A series, Cadillac CTS and CTS-V, (sorry snake) :P and it won't break the bank since one cost $36K to start.
Rocky
I factor in all things, not just price as being of "value".
BMW, has finally crossed that line with the 335i and is the benchmark all by itself. :shades:
Rocky
So did I and BMW doesn't cut it (nor does any luxury brand)..
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You still haven't named me a brand or a particular car which could be better value than a BMW or a 335i.
"If your scared, just say your scared" :P
Rocky
andre, that last line was pretty funny. Hey it's all a matter of opinion. However, I think the car is more than just a hood handler. There are many benefits to owning a BMW, the downside was always the price one pays might be precieved a little high by some. The 335i's increased performance over the 330i, has addressed this issue and can finally look like a class leading value IMHO. But my opinion doesn't mean moot to others, since they can argue other brands and specific cars etc they precieve as better values.
Rocky
Secondly as you go past the $30K mark the value for the buck starts to drop very fast.
But I would say that as far as I am concerned (personally that is) the 3 series is one of the worst values in a car even if it were free. You see the main issue with the 3 series is its size its just to small. Sorry they want way to much money for a car I am unable to drive in a safe and/or comfortable manner.
So you want a car that is a better value than the 3 series? Ok how about a Nissan Versa, gets better gas mileage, can keep up reasonably well in traffic, costs less than half the price and I can fit in one.
Now before you start ranting and raving the Versa is used as an illustration. Now cars that I would take before a 3 series, well there is the A4, Azera and the G35 to name a few. All which I think are better values than a 3 series.
Now if you really want bang for the buck you should see what I actually paid for the Caddy. :shades:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Also note that while their may be benefits in owning a BMW the cost of those benefits may outweigh those benefits. And to be honest the only real benefit in owning a BMW is saying that you own one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
For some reason BMW's just never did it for me, although I did kinda like that 8-series hardtop coupe they offered for a few years. You know, the pretty looking money pit? :surprise: And I liked the previous generation (at least the last one before the Bangled look) 7-series. Not enough to take another mortgage out on the house for one, though.
Now that I think about it, I did kinda like the Z3 roadster, but I'd never buy something that small/expensive. I kinda liked the Z4 at first, but up close they don't look all that well-built. Paint looks cheaper somehow than the other BMW's. Hard to explain, but it just seemed a bit shallow and washed-out in comparison. And I didn't like the way it had an unfinished look to it when you opened up the hood...the paint spray-lines just seemed too noticeable, especially where it went from shiny to dull. And I saw something on the Z-4 that I thought car makers quit using decades ago...shims! Granted, the car didn't use half a quarter-roll of shims like the domestics might have back in the day, but they were there.
I forgot you're quite tall. The 5 series would be about right and the Twin Turbo I-6 will make it's way into the 5 series.
Rocky
Rocky
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Now the 5 series is far more doable, but it has a rather ugly (in my opinion) interior and it has (or at least had) this funny little joystick type control thing that (in mine and others opinion) was a complete joke and made the car rather difficult to manage some of the interior applications.
I much prefer the Caddy over the 5 series.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In 2005' my pick of the "best value" of a car was the Acura TL. It had lots of gadgets, was pretty darn fast, and got good MPG, + loaded out
(6-speed, w/ Voice Recognition Navi + Summer Tires) I got it for $33K and change.
2006' I picked the Lexus IS-350, but on that one I counted all my chickens before they hatched. Loaded up it came to $47K. :surprise: I then said well the TL' is still champ as best value of 2006.
2007' is up in the air still. I might be again counting my chickens before they are hatched, but I feel confident the 335i should end up the best value of 2007'. The 2007' Acura TL Type-S depending on how "re freshened" it is could win that title IMO.
Time, will tell and yes these are the opinions of me.
Rocky
Okay, that settles it...1980 Citation it is! :P
The BMW 335D is faster and gets better mileage. I would take the E320 CDI over the BMW at this point in time. More luxury and they handle very well.
I assume that is a European only diesel model ?
I would take the E320 CDI over the BMW at this point in time. More luxury and they handle very well.
More luxury ? Not the last time I checked. The 335i is much faster and out handles the Benz diesel. I also would rather have the I-6 with TT over the MB diesel. The MB diesel is pretty fuel efficient and has a decent amount of torque (376 lbs ?) but lacks hp. and isn't particularly quick at accelerating.
However gagrice, a good choice.
Rocky
If I need more than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds I will buy a Porsche. They love the 335D in Europe. We only get the dregs over here. We are not considered discriminating buyers by the rest of the world. Look at the crap they sell us. So loaded down with emissions devices that it is lucky they even run.
I agree
If I need more than 0-60 in 6.5 seconds I will buy a Porsche.
I can't afford a porsche like a rich guy such as yourself.
Rocky
If only we could have the BMW diesels more enlightened locales receive. And I will say that MB has more luxury...BMW is more sport. Both are fine drives.
The 335i is a very compelling car, but I will never own one until they fix the run-flat tire problems. All that car needs is a spare tire!
2006 BMW 335i Coupe: Kerb weight, 1600 kg, 3527 lb.
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=142109&automobile-BMW
That is stupid heavy for a car that size. A '90s GT-R is 150-300 pounds lighter, and it crates around heavy AWD gear and a motor that weighs as much as an old Chevy small block.
In larger car values, the Charger or 300 comes to mind. Then there is the CTS, though it seems overpriced, or under content for price -- same difference. :P
-Loren
-Loren
some would argue that a honda or toyota represent a utilitarian "appliance" purchase.
i'm at a point in my life where i no longer am seduced by horsepower, gadgetry, status etc. i want a vehicle that is gonna start and drive every time for myself and wife. i've got a job and kids...
i can't spend a lot of time in some service center - and i don't do payments on a depreciating asset.
i also do not lease a vehicle.
so my life is simply not vehicle-centric although we rely on two of them. it's a tool like a well balanced hammer of the proper size and weight to drive the nails i've got to drive.
don't get me wrong, i like to have a few creature features (like map lights, a CD player, a place to hold a beverage and clip-on :shades: a place to hide the CDs and the tire gauge but not much else).
please - hold the faux leather and wood.
I am with you on this one. What good is horsepower when your stuck in traffic? You can put was to many gadgets on a car and status to me is just another word for paying to much.
Value to me is comfortable seating, good ride, reasonable cost of ownership and the ability to keep it on the road. Thats why I don't think a $35+K car isn't a good value.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
as i get older, i want things to be simpler and straight-forward. i hate / detest complexity, and i'm a computer and systems engineer. :surprise:
i also realise, when you increase complexity and computer integration, you increase the cost of repair. sure sure, we can benefit from increases in fuel economy, but there quickly becomes a point where the vehicle is just too complicated for the techs to service, or i to understand how they are designed to operate. :confuse:
i see the trend in automobiles increasing in computer integration and overall complexity as a slippery slope myself.
I can agree with the desirability of those assets. My question for all new cars. Are any of them durable? I am not talking can they go 200k miles with little or no trouble. That is only one aspect of durability. I am talking aging well. We are currently considering a car to replace our 17 year old Lexus LS400. It has under 86k original miles. It has always been garaged and maintained properly. It runs like new. I don't think any car maker today has a car that can hold up that well. Too much extraneous crap to go bad. Try getting a 10 year B-B warranty on a top of the line car. The auto makers don't think they will last that long either.
We would probably not buy another car if we could get a clean installation of a CD & XM satelite reciever. No one we found has a unit that will not look like bleep installed.
Right today the only consideration is the MB E320 CDI with European delivery. My wife had two Mercedes diesels prior to the Lexus and was very pleased with both.
PS
Every month we keep the Lexus we gain $285 in interest on the $65k in a CD. Current rates are at 5.26% interest.
only 86K in 17 years of ownership? my goodness that's low mileage!
i stepped out of an accord with 150K and corrolla with 180K. amazing what they were still worth after a decade (each) of practically trouble-free ownership.
i'm not sure what the Lexus looks like on the inside. you're saying it doesn't have a relatively standard front bezel?
you know places like BestBuy have vehicle "fit" tools that will tell you what will work. another possibility is a place like Cruchfield:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-J9SDfB7cZE6/T1.html?cm_re_o=kwzpjzywz*bEfwyEzkjEzM*- fzyTwfv
Rocky
None of the imports that I've seen can handle that type of load.
:confuse:
The choice is easy billingsley
Rocky
ok - you're gonna kick me - for about 7-9 dollars you can get a "cassette tape adapter", which provides you a means to take the audio out from a hand-held CD or even a laptop (we do this in our van with the little ones - play a DVD and route the audio into the cassette deck so the audio comes out through the vehicle speakers).
not particularly pretty - but functional - no dash cutting required.
http://www.xmfan.com/viewtopic.php?t=5328
PS
Thanks for the link and idea! We may just keep the LS400 until it has 150k miles. Let's see that will be 13 more years. 2020 may have a car my wife likes the looks of.
We found ourselves in the market for a minivan. We had been talking about getting one for a while and we rented one a few weeks ago for vacation to get a feel. That was a Pontiac Montana (but could have just as easily been any of the GM clones). It gave us a lot more room, relatively speaking, and the standard DVD player was nice for the kids while we were driving. After a week, we had grown rather fond of it.
From there, the itch started to grow until my wife told me we were going to start shopping.
On paper, I favored the Sienna. And, make no mistake, it is certainly a nice van. We drove the Sienna and then the Odyssey. Ford never entered the picture, just sitting is that thing at the car show convince me that I wanted nothing to do with it, and that was before reading anything about it. We sat in a Town and Country, but the wife was particularly unimpressed with it and we never even took it on the road.
Like I said, on paper, I favored the Sienna. Reading reports of the Odyssey being noisy and rough riding biased me some. My wife's car is a 96 Accord that we bought new when we graduated college. It has been bulletproof reliable, fun to drive, but certainly noiser and rougher riding than my parent's Camry of the same time frame.
But, after driving them both back to back, I found no real difference in the sound levels of the vans. And, the Odyssey, while firmer than the Sienna, was by no means rough. Ultimately, it came down to the handling and we much prefered the Odyssey.
The GM vans were fine for a rental, but, for the money, I couldn't consider owning one. The new Kia/Hyundai also looks good on paper, but I'm not ready to take a chance on a first year vehicle like that.
In the end, it came down to history. Overall, we've been happy with our now ten year old Accord (it will be by daily driver now and my nine year old Chevy pickup will server backup duty and Home Depot runs). The Odyssey took everything we liked about the Accord and improved everwhere else. I went into this purchase looking for a vehicle that I can count on for at least eight to ten years and I expect the Odyssey to give me that and hold up well as it ages.
Domestic, (not my belief, but the public's perception).
Market probably flooded with used Impalas.
Dealers practically giving away new cars.
Plain Jane base model, (plastic wheel covers, cloth interior).
Impala totally restyled in 2006.
Car will be 4 model years old.
Ugly brown color.
3.4 V-6.
Is $8,500 a fair offer or am I being offered too little? What do you guys or gals think?
I realize you picked the Odyssey based on the history of your Accord but you might want to check out the history of the Odyssey itself. It's not exactly as stellar as you might think.
OTOH I do agree with your purchase. If we were going to buy a minivan, and we did shop for one earlier this year (ended up with an '06 Explorer instead), the Odyssey would be our first choice too. The Ford and GM vans are not up to par anymore and the DCX vans are just plain blah. Although the Stow-and-Go feature is hard to pass on. I also know two new Sienna owners. One has a loud squeal coming from the engine bay with less than 10k miles and the other has water and dew in one of the headlights with less than 20k miles. Easily fixed most likely but no thanks Toyota. At least not for the price they charge, and I don't particularly like the van anyway. I'd rather have an Quest now that the gauges are in the proper position.