GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda...Who will sell you your next car?

baggs32

Hey, I never said he was hurtin' by not taking a salary. He is saving the company millions by not doing that though which is smart.

Mario Lemieux tried the same thing here with the Penguins but the NHL wouldn't let him play without taking a salary. Other than those two, I've never heard of anyone doing that or even thinking about it.

snakeweasel

Hey, I never said he was hurtin' by not taking a salary. He is saving the company millions by not doing that though which is smart.

Yes but he is still getting millions in stock dividends so as far as I am concerned its an empty gesture.

Other than those two, I've never heard of anyone doing that or even thinking about it.

It has been said that Michael Jordan took a lesser salary so the Bulls could afford to keep certain players on the roster.

aspesisteve

any back dating on his plethora of stock options?

Steve Jobs at Apple doesn't collect a paycheck either. It's a good PR move. But these execs aren't working for free. They do just fine.

Still you have to ask how the competition can offer a better product for less money and have better numbers at the end of the quarter.

I use the airlines as an example because it's easier to compare than the auto industry.

baggs32

It has been said that Michael Jordan took a lesser salary so the Bulls could afford to keep certain players on the roster.

Jerome Bettis took a couple of pay cuts to stay with the Steelers for all those years and look where it got him!

Yes but he is still getting millions in stock dividends so as far as I am concerned its an empty gesture.


I think you have to re-examine your thoughts on what he's doing. He could be collecting those dividends as well as making a salary in the millions along with a yearly bonus in the millions. He's at least cutting out what he can as I don't think you can decline dividends. They are payable whether you want them or not.

baggs32

You guys still think I'm saying he's some kind of martyr or something. I know he's doing just fine without the salary and bonuses but at least he's doing what he's doing. He doesn't have to you know. Would you?

louiswei

Heck yeah. Especially with my name on that blue oval emblem I'll do whatever that's necessary to save the company.

snakeweasel

Heck yeah. Especially with my name on that blue oval emblem I'll do whatever that's necessary to save the company.

Well ol' Bill isn't. Both Mercury and Lincoln are shells of their former selves and the only real good things Ford has is the Mustang. Didn't Ford just recall a whole lot of trucks and vans?

louiswei

Yes, 1.2 million of them.

If I am Bill I'll just drop the Mercury and Lincoln lines. They already got high-end lineups in Jag, Volvo and Land Rover. Any three of those has more potential than Mercury and Lincoln.

snakeweasel

I will agree with you about Mercury, its day is over and should be gone. Lincoln on the other hand could do well if they can get their act together. They really need to bring back a boat of a Town Car and something to go against the M's, AMG's and V's that are out there, something like a 450 HP LS with a 6 speed manual.

louiswei

I really don't think Ford has the energy and resource to reamp Lincoln right now. With the current condition, Licoln has nothing but bunch of badge engineered Ford with some bling-bling on them.

If they really want to keep Lincoln/Mercury the best move is probably to get rid of either Jag/Volvo. 4 high end brands (5 if you count Austin Martin) are just too much for Ford right now IMO. Especially with NONE of them making some serious profit right now.

dino001

I thought Volvo was quite profitable. In the total Ford scale it may not be much, but by itself it was quite good, or so I thought.

logic1

Selling Jaguar, AM and even Land Rover make sense.

Volvo is a integrated into Ford's system and a money maker. Same with Mazda.

My vision of Ford would be Ford/Mazda/Volvo. No Lincoln Mercury.

Too bad about Jaguar, really. The aluminum frames are beautiful. The technology is so unique and expensive, it just does not translate well into anything else Ford is doing.

For whatever reason, the upper end of the market does not appreciate the technology. Passing on the new Jaguars for a lot of the other stuff out there just shows how shallow the upper end market can be.

user777

what about the focus and five-hundred lines from ford? how are they doing in sales and are they getting good marks? i see a good number in atlanta. still see plenty of taurus/sable and crown vics, although w.r.t. the latter, seems the police are using a number of other models to blend in with traffic.

louiswei

Hey, I was from Atlanta as well. I might be wrong but I felt that I saw more 3 series or TL on the streets than the 500. Also, don't remember to see that many Focus as well.

logic1

The 500 is doing alright, but not spectacular. Many think the new 3.5 and 6 speed tranny in the '07 will help.

The Edge should do quite well, if the crowds it drew at the auto shows are any indication.

I think a Ford not distracted by Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Land Rover would have had the sense to make the Euro Focus North America compliant. The Mazda3 does alright, but without the dealership network Ford has, Ford is giving up a lot of midlevel compact car sales.

snakeweasel

Many think the new 3.5 and 6 speed tranny in the '07 will help.

It would help, but what would help more is making it with a manual tranny standard. Its hard to find a good decent priced family sedan with a V6 and a stick.

logic1

Amen to that. I am a huge manual fan. I am beginning to think I am going the way of the dinosaur - at least when it comes to mainstream sedans.

The manual in the Mustang is actually fairly decent. Problem is, it is rwd and the 500 fwd.

snakeweasel

Yes manuals in mainstream sedans are becoming a thing of the past. I think the Accord is the only one where you can get a stick and a V6, but even that stickers at around 28K. Other than that I think the only other V6 family sedan with a manual that stickers for under $30K is the Caddy CTS with the smaller V6. To get something reasonably priced you have to drop to a I4 and even then its hard to find one with a stick.

I think that the manufacturer who comes out with a sedan with a decent V6 and a 5 or 6 speed manual and it starts in the low 20's will have a hit.

user777

the honda accord has manual trans offerings:
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/specifications_descriptions.asp?ModelName=Ac- cord+Sedan

lilengineerboy

Subarus have manuals on most models. You are right though, they are disappearing. My old Contour with 170 hp and a 5spd was great. That Contour was cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and spent much less time on a hook than my Accord. I still miss that car.

snakeweasel

the honda accord has manual trans offerings:

And I have mentioned that in my post. They only have one V6 thats a manual and thats going to be close to $28K. Other than that its a 4 banger with a manual.

snakeweasel

Subarus have manuals on most models.

IIRC Subaru only has V6's with autos, all their manuals are mated to 4 bangers. There are a lot of family sedans out there that you can get a manual with a 4 cylinder engine but not many V6's with a manual that are under $30K and none (I think) under $25K.

xrunner2

I think that the manufacturer who comes out with a sedan with a decent V6 and a 5 or 6 speed manual and it starts in the low 20's will have a hit.

Can see a manual in a sporty/sports type car such as 3series coupe, Civic SI, Miata, Solstice, etc. Can't imagine it in a sedan used for everyday driving/commuting and normal family trips.

Have had Accord sedans in past with 4 cyl and 6's all with auto trans, but would not wanted to drive these with a stick. Did have a Prelude with 5-speed and it was superb. Have had many manual trans cars in past, and this Prelude was by far the best trans for smooth shifting, spacing of gears. Have had sporty cars, pony cars with stick and with these it makes sense.

Might consider a Civic SI sedan when it comes out. Would be torn on this one whether to get stick or auto trans (if they offer it). Test drove a Civic SI coupe recently. Of course it had stick and it was excellent. Funny thing was that sales guy who was youngish admitted to me that he did not know how to drive stick. He had to have somebody else get car and pull it up in front of showroom for my test drive.

Thing about Civic SI (present coupe or fut sedan) is that it might be ripe for being stolen given its high-perf engine and easy transplant into an older Civic coupe.

snakeweasel

Can't imagine it in a sedan used for everyday driving/commuting and normal family trips.

I have a stick in the Caddy and I love it. Of course I have only used it for commuting once, but it wasn't to bad. I also have know a few people who have forgone a V6 and gotten a I4 in a sedan just to get a stick.

I guess I am just part of a dying breed

xrunner2

I have a stick in the Caddy and I love it. Of course I have only used it for commuting once, but it wasn't to bad. I also have know a few people who have forgone a V6 and gotten a I4 in a sedan just to get a stick.

I enjoyed driving my Prelude with 5-spd on back roads, twisties, hilly, etc. It was fine on interstates in 5th gear when traffic was light. It was very tedious to drive the car in stop-and-go traffic in rush hour on interstate or on suburban streets. I put on 195K miles before selling it.

I could see getting a 2006-7 Civic SI manual, but mainly using it for non-rush hour, non-suburban trips. Would use an extra auto trans vehicle for mundane trips.

dhanley

Shrug. My daily driver is stick. I honestly don't even think about in traffic. In an automatic, you keep pressing the brake, is pressing the clutch so different?

lilengineerboy

Thats true, they are fours, but with a 250hp turbo four, I guess I just wasn't missing a v6.

Depending on proximity to work and traffic where you live, I can see wanting something else for commuting duties, but if you live somewhere that miserable, I feel bad for you. Who did you elect to city counsel that they performed such poor urban planning?
I don't think vehicle type matters in a manual transmission, it makes a mundane car fun, even just running errands.
Check out the discussion on the future of the manual transmisson...

mayberryguy

IIRC Subaru only has V6's with autos, all their manuals are mated to 4 bangers.

Subaru does not make a V6. They only make Boxers, both 4 & 6 form. Their new Spec-B with 6-manual is great to drive too. Turbocharged 4.

baggs32

I think that the manufacturer who comes out with a sedan with a decent V6 and a 5 or 6 speed manual and it starts in the low 20's will have a hit.

You can get a Mazda6 with a V6 and a 5-speed MTX in the low 20's but it's not exactly a hit. I have one and absolutely love it but admittedly it is not for everyone even with the ATX. TOO sporty for some I'd imagine.

Oh, and you can get it in sedan, hatch or wagon form as well.

You guys knew this already I hope right? :confuse:

lilengineerboy

The Altima comes as a 5spd with 4 or 6 cyl motors, at least for now. It seems Nissan is pushing the CVT technology.

snakeweasel

I stand (or sit rather) corrected.

logic1

Well Said!! :P

antoninb

Will likely be a Toyota or Hyundai, and definitely not a Honda. After 3 consecutive Accords and one CRV, I'm convinced that Honda makes decent vehicles, but the level of quality that their marketing implies. I also find that the dealers and Honda head office are rather arrogant and lack reasonable relationship management. Other experiences may vary, but in SouthWestern Ontario, Canada, this has been my experience.

jeena

I'm new to these boards, so forgive me if this subject has been addressed in prior posts, but I was wondering what everyone thinks of the 2007 Honda CRV. I have a 2000 CRV with 46,000 miles and was looking forward to selling it and buying the 2007, but in the photos the vehicle looks like a small hearse, it is hideous! I think Honda made a grave (no pun intended) mistake with the new platform and will lose sales. I will purchase the Toyota RAV4 instead.

matthattan1587

I agree the new Crv is ugly...

I was looking into the CRV for my next car, but the older model simply did not have enough power (4cylinder engine) and I didnt like the interior materials. I would not recommend any Toyota vehicle right now, as they are having serious problems with tranmission hesitation. It is all over the posts here on the RAV 4 discussions and the Camry discussions. I don't know what is going on with Toyota. I wound up buying a new Ford Explorer, which is a truck based SUV and not as good on gas mileage, but is a great vehicle so far and I cannot be any happier. Right now I would look at the new 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe coming out and the 2007 Mitsubishi Endeavor as well. They both look goregous and Hyundai has really stepped up its game.

Again try to avoid Toyota right now, until it gets past its hiccups with the transmission.

Good Luck!

user777

you visited the link right? that's 28K MSRP for the 5SPD Manual and it well under the threshold. me thinks the cost to you and me would be closer to 24-25K.

i could be wrong but i believe there is also a V6/6SPD Manual for maybe 2-3K more. :surprise:

so even the V6/6SPD/M should be attainable well below 30K. :P

snakeweasel

A couple of tips. First if you think its hideous don't buy it, there are plenty of other cars out there. Secondly since its 6 years old I will presume its paid for and since you only have 46,000 miles on it keep it, it will run for a while. Put your car payments into a bank account and in a few years you can have a big downpayment. And maybe Honda will make a better looking CRV by then.

snakeweasel

Yes I visited the link but for comparison purposes I use MSRP as actual prices can vary from person to person, dealer to dealer, salesman to salesman, and day to day. I did originally mention that it stickers for around $28K and most other cars will sell for under MSRP.

i could be wrong but i believe there is also a V6/6SPD Manual for maybe 2-3K more.

Well sort of right and sort of wrong, IIRC the V6 has a 6 speed manual but no 5 speed, the 4 bangers have 5 speeds. The auto's have 5 speeds.

robchris

Late reply: Just bought a car for my wife. $ is very tight. Planned on spending ~$13-15k at most. For $17k I was able to afford a Hyundai Sonata - Excellent quality, amazing, truly amazing base features. We have the GLS (lowest trim level) with 6 cylinders, 234 hp: Awesome.

Only considered Hyundai following a business trip where they gave me one to drive. Time will tell - last week the stats on growth by % of market/cars sold showed the top two being Toyota with ~10.5% and Hyundai ~10.2%. In stead of spending marketing dollars on tremendous ads, they are spending the $ via selling to rental fleets.

Just was amazed that Hyundai / Korea could put out such a product at such a price. I wish / hope Ford & GM can get their act / overheads in line to be similarly competitive.

robchris

Have you ever sat in a Grand Prix since they redesigned it? Hard, bumpy plastic galore... I was looking at buying one but was disgusted by the inside look/feel.

Check out a cheapo Hyundai Sonata and the impression is 180 degrees different...Kinda hurts to talk down on a U.S. made car (But the Sonata's Parts ~28% U.S. (the engine, other parts? & assemblied in Alabama! Not too bad.

robchris

Bottom feeder? Kind of a snobby term, isn't that? Have been in the Azera. Nice car. Bought a Sonata. Very nice car with 234 hp for $17k. Fit beat the Grand Prix from my viewpoint. Grand Prix was loaded with hard plastic. If you check out what comes with the Aura vs. either the Azera or Sonata, the Aura tends to come up short. Maybe it is an amazing car to sit in / drive. I hope so as it is so necessary someone steps up to the plate from the U.S. car companies and gives consumers more value for their $ - Yes, us bottom feeders with mouths to feed and limited "surplus" income.

Perceptions differ. Be well.

jeena

Thanks so much for the replies to my post. No, I don't have any car payments, I bought the CRV brand new for cash and a trade-in. It's still under the extended warranty until May 2007, which I only used once all these years, the car was at Honda Service two weeks ago because my door locks starting making noise upon locking. According to Edmund's it's worth $10,000, so I was thinking about selling it to get a 2007 SUV, before it depreciates further. This would enable me to put a $10,000 downpayment on a new SUV, so I would be able to purchase a new vehicle for about half the price.

I have been partial to Honda, having owned an Accord, Civic, and now the CRV, so I was disappointed when I saw the ugly 2007 CRV model. I owned a Buick Regal in 1980, which I loved, but had to give up for the four wheel drive Accord because of the weather in the North. Since then, I have stuck with Honda because of good performance/low maintenance and resale value.

Is there a web-site which lists SUV's with the best resale values?

Are navigation systems available in all new small SUV's from Honda, Toyota, Hyundia, etc.? If not, can you have your own installed?

I went to the car show this year in NYC, and saw a demo of OnStar in a GM vehicle and really liked it, but I didn't see any OnStar-like technology in any other vehicles from other companies, so I was wondering if GM is the only company that offers it.

rockylee

Until what ? :P Well on 9/1 we will FINALLY find out if the 2007' Acura TL and Type-S will become the 3 series slayer Some are saying 320-330 hp. and Acura is tight liped about releasing anything offical. If the new TL, get SH-AWD (rumor a option) and get's a upgraded navi and the RDX's 450 watt ELS DVD-A, along with ventilated seats, and that hp, I will definetly have to own one. :surprise: Yes, Rocky will gamble with another Acura TL, especially when I'm still seeing 2003 Type-S's going for $24K used. :surprise: :surprise:

The only other car I'm considering right now is a BMW 335i sedan. I gotta see how expensive a 335i sedan is before I settle on anything. I liked my last TL, alot but am liking the Bimmer alot also. Time will tell what the best car and value would be for me. If the TL get's SH-AWD and the features I listed above it will probably be a no brainer.

Rocky

gagrice

Are navigation systems available in all new small SUV's from Honda, Toyota, Hyundia, etc.? If not, can you have your own installed?

I would get the Pioneer NAV over any of the OEM models. Less for DVD updates than being held up by the auto dealers. Most of the OEM NAVs seem outdated when you get them. Get it with XM sat radio and traffic reports feature.

AVIC-Z1

gagrice

Bought a Sonata. Very nice car with 234 hp for $17k.

I have a friend with a 4 year old Sonata. He is just past 80k miles. He bought the bumper to bumper 10 yr 100k mile warranty. Told me it was a waste of money. He has not had one warranty issue. The battery went out and it was not covered by warranty. I am thinking they are under rated cars. A neighbor just bought the Azera. Looks pretty nice.

xrunner2

If the new TL, get SH-AWD (rumor a option) and get's a upgraded navi and the RDX's 450 watt ELS DVD-A, along with ventilated seats, and that hp, I will definetly have to own one.

Would the SH-AWD be of any advantage for those who very rarely encounter snow or ice? Perhaps an AWD will have takers in places like northern Michigan, Minnesota, etc. Would think that an AWD in Florida, LA, S Texas, Vegas, etc would be useless.

Also, seems that the extra weight that AWD requires on the car will diminish it's measured performance and handling. Wouldn't gas mileage also suffer?

snakeweasel

Are navigation systems available in all new small SUV's from Honda, Toyota, Hyundia, etc.? If not, can you have your own installed?

There are plenty of aftermarket systems that cost a fraction of what factory installed ones cost. Plus they have the added bonus of switching it to another car. Say you go to Hawaii for a vacation, take the nave system with you.

logic1

To your sound advice, I would also add look at some of the cell phones being offered with GPS. Some are real good, sell for less than most OEM nav system markups, and, natch, include a cell phone to boot.

nippononly

Counterpoint: the 4-cyl/5-speed auto in the brand new RAV4 is the exact same powertrain they have been using for three years in the old Camry. No problems there.

The 6-speed auto in the new Camry V-6 is the one that had "hiccups" at launch, and the age-old general advice to avoid all first-year models from WHATEVER manufacturer is perhaps well-heeded.

Some Avalon owners (the V-6 is standard) have also complained about their transmissions, but it appears the way it performs is by design (related to mapping of the throttle).

jeena

"Counterpoint: the 4-cyl/5-speed auto in the brand new RAV4 is the exact same powertrain they have been using for three years in the old Camry. No problems there."

Do you mean only the 2007 RAV4 has the same powertrain as the Camry, or does the 2006 have it also?