GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda...Who will sell you your next car?

baggs32

Are you sure a new Focus had Firestones on it? That would be pretty surprising given Ford's relationship with that company these days! :surprise:

lemko

...is in "fire sale" mode selling cars at $0 down, 0% for 72 months for which I'd easily qualify, maybe now's the time to land a nice loaded Town Car while I can still get one. Lincoln's on its way to becoming a poor copy of Acura with a V-6 FWD "flagship" and we all know how well the RL sells.

nippononly

Seems like they're getting tires from anywhere and everywhere! But no, I'm not positive they were Firestones, they might have been Bridgestones, something with "stones" on the end. :-P

If they were Bridgestones, my response would have been "umm, blah!" Non-sport Bridgestones are no great shakes, but they are OK for the price.

louiswei

I know that some performance model of the Focus comes with Firestone/Bridgestone 16" Firehawk GTA. That's actually a decent tire and I had it on my 97' Honda Accord (with aftermarket 16" rims). The only downside is loud noise during high speed.

baggs32

I know that some performance model of the Focus comes with Firestone/Bridgestone 16" Firehawk GTA.

I remember that from a few years ago but I'm pretty sure no new Ford comes with Firestone or Bridgestone tires.

baggs32

...is in "fire sale" mode selling cars at $0 down, 0% for 72 months for which I'd easily qualify, maybe now's the time to land a nice loaded Town Car while I can still get one.

You know the 0% for 72 ended on Monday right? I think you can still get 0% for up to 60 months on some models now but IIRC it's not across the board like the 2-week 0% for up to 72 months was.

kdhspyder

You are slightly out of touch with reality son. The Fusion/Milan are made in Mexico and primarily support the Mexican economy. The Sienna and Odyssey are made in the Midwest and primarily support the US economy.

GM has already stated that it's moving it's electronics unit to Shanghai... everything.

Ford let slip a document that it plans several $Billion in investments in Mexico but ... they just shut down the Norfolk F150 plant ( It's too far away from the suppliers in the Midwest!!! ?? ).

Volvo's, Saabs, Land Rovers, all benefit the European economies more than the US Economy.

DC is a German company.

There is a new truck plant in Texas employing more Texans while Virginians go on the unemployment line.

You can now remove your head from... the sand.

explorerx4

my '04 focus has goodyear rsa tires. they are kind of a triple tread tire. a bit greasy when wet, grip well when dry. expensive to replace.

explorerx4

alteranative viewpoint. billions are spent designing and testing car designs before the first one is ever assembled.
where is that done? to me, that is where the vehicle is from. where it is assembled is a factor, but not the whole equation.

dhanley

Well, from my perspective, the point of "buy american" is to support the american worker and the american economy... And in the end to support ourselves, because we all benefit if there is more economic activity in out own country.

A car being built here in the US, i think, the biggest contributor to the american economy. The plant is constructed, which pumps billions to the economy, and steady stream of taxes are paid to the county/state/country that keeps our schools and roads up to par.

The workers get paychecks, and they buy products. Those products, and the supply chan that feeds brings them to the worker, ultimately lead to thousands of other american jobs.

The worker also has savings and pension, which also helps keep our economy rolling.

Compared to the factor, design and testing is a minor expense. However, many oreign cars are also designed and tested here to a large extent.

http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/design-rd/locations/

http://www.designworksusa.com/

rockylee

Imagine that.

Rocky

kdhspyder

billions are spent designing and testing car designs

That's got to be an exageration. Millions yes, Tens of Millions probably, $100 Million... Possibly. But I'd guess not for just one vehicle. You'd have topoint me to some specific data to have me believe $100 Million for one vehicle.

andre1969

For some reason the figure $300 Million is sticking in my mind. That's to come out with an all-new (well, all-new for marketing purposes, EVERYTHING, no matter what the ads say, is going to have SOMETHING that carries over)

Now that's for a whole new platform, which may spawn several different models, so it's not just one car. For instance, when Buick came out with the Lucerne, I doubt they spent $300 Million just on that. But when Nissan came out with the 2002 Altima platform, that might be a realistic number. Plus, didn't the Murano and the Infiniti FX spring from the Altima? IMO the G35 sedan looks like it did as well, but it's RWD. Still, there's no hard fast rule that says a RWD and FWD car can't come from the same platform (i.e., 1975 Riviera, 1975 Toronado/Eldorado)

IIRC, the most expensive part of a car to redesign is the cowl/dashboard area. At least it used to be. But these days, with all the safety regs, emissions regs, fuel economy regs, etc, who knows?

dhanley

I recall reading that the current c-class development program cost MB a billion. I don't know if i am recalling this correctly ( i have been trying to google ) and i seem to recall this included new engines, trannies, interior bits, etc, that were put into many other MB vehicles.

nippononly

Funny, huh, that Foci carry Eagles nowadays? Remember when Eagles used to be the OEM tires on cars like Corvette? The Goodyear Eagle line has changed a lot over the years.

None of my local dealer's Foci had Eagles though.

hey andre, the Infiniti FX is RWD too! It rides on the G35's platform and uses that car's powertrain in the '35' model. It is NOT the Infiniti version of the Murano.

terry92270

"It is NOT the Infiniti version of the Murano."

Well, except for all the sheet metal and most of the interior, you are most certainly correct! :P

nippononly

Yeah, it's normally the OTHER way around - manufacturers sharing the guts among many models, but trying to differentiate the looks enough to fool the consumer. With the Murano and FX, they share no guts but are almost twins in looks! Go figure. I could easily see where one would think the FX was a "clone" or at least a mechanical sibling of the Murano.

I don't like the looks of either personally, but if I had to pick one it would be the FX - at least it has a good curve or two, where the Murano literally looks like a lump of metal.

terry92270

:surprise:

Oh, you are so wrong about the looks!

andre1969

is actually kinda sexy looking. Actually, if you gave it about 4-5 feet of trunk behind the rear window, stuck on some 1960 Imperial fins, and moved the rear wheels back just a bit to proportion it out I think it would look kinda like a modern interpretation of those old late 50's Caddy and Imperial limos. Maybe I'll try to photoshop something like that sometime, to give y'all an idea of what's going on in my mind...

I think Nissan's had a problem for awhile now of making cars that just look too similar, even if they're not. That "Good & Plenty" shaped J30 back in the 90's made me think of a high-spec Altima. And I used to think the litte G20 was just a high-spec Sentra, even though it was a totally different car. Now I know the I30 was just a thinly disguised Maxima, so that one IS a good example of their badge engineering. The Q- always looked unique though. I liked the original grille-less style.

lilengineerboy

One of my friends at work has an FX35 and my other buddy always calls it a Murano and he gets all ticked off and they fight and make disparaging remarks about each other's mother.

nippononly

Dude! TOTALLY didn't mean to diss your ride! I just looked up your profile and realized my gaffe.

Anyway, FWIW, I have driven both and liked the drive. Enterprise rents them near me and I have taken a couple of weekend trips in them. As far as the drive, I wouldn't pay a penny more than the price of the Murano, as the FX isn't worth the extra dollars IMO. But I am no fan of CVTs, which are so common in Muranos.

Too bad they don't make either in a manual. :-/

carguy58

"The foreigners are crossing our borders from every direction.. cars from Japan.. our worst enemy 50 years ago. probably still our worst enemy economically speaking...cars from Korea.. they're building a bomb for us.. terrorists sneaking in the USA from every direction.. and you morons .. not strong enough a description of you, keep buying foreign cars and bashing USA made cars.. dont give me that crap about tyota being built in the USA.. they are assembled here but thats just about all.. same with nissen, and all the rest.. from what ive read tyota brings in their own people and set up their own mfg facilities to make parts for tyota for the most part.. oh they might buy a knob here and there from some USA mfg.. to my way of thinking USA is getting just what they deserve.. dumb people buying [non-permissible content removed] products. bashing USA products.. hey remember that old saying .. what goes around comes around? keep buying foreign things and soon you wont be able to buy anything.. your job will be outsourced to China or India."

Your funny....since US Fortune 500 companies send our jobs overseas and everybody is complaining about the Japanese car makers having plants here. One word: "please" this is not the 80's anymore. Lets fact it The Buy American theme goes nowhere in my mind since Us Fortune 500 companies send our jobs to Tawain and China. I just bought a car charger for my phone the other day and it was made in China. My Acura that I own was made in Ohio for the record.

How come you fail to bring up that Chrysler has worked with Mitsu and now Mercedes. Gm has had rebadged Toyota's in their line-up before. Ford and Mazda work together.

I'm not trying to be bias either way..I just give you the facts.

I like to buy US made..yeah but everything I buy like clothes its all made overseas but yet The Japanese Big 3 are actually making cars that are made in the USA. I'll take the Japanese car that is made here vs the clothes that are made in some other country because I think a car made here helps ur economy more than clothes made in an other country.. I still don;t care for the Domestic 2.5 products mostly vs the Japanese branded products. I admit Chrysler products have always been the best looking domestics over the past 10 years.

So let me ask you this question you would only buy a GM, Ford, or Chrysler that was made in the USA. That limits your choices doesn't since the Chrysler PT Cruiser and 300 are made in Mexico and Austria respectively. The Pontiac Grand Prix is made in Canada. The Ford Fusion is made in Mexico.

GM sells cars in Europe yet we complain about the Japanese selling cars here? It just doesn't make any sense.

Finally if I see a Domestic or Japanese branded vehicle I'll buy it wether its made here or not but I would like it to be made here.

rockylee

If I were to buy a car right now I'd have to say GM, or Ford, which includes Volvo, would get my dollars.

They flat out make the most desirable cars in my price range.

Rocky

dino001

Most desirable? Which ones, if I dare to ask? In what way?

If I move away from "all domestics are unreliable perception" (which I thinks is not true anymore, but rather should be considered on case by case basis), I still see no GM cars I would like to own. All I see is big cashbacks on stuff that no one but fleets wants. My (limited somewhat) contact with GM vehicles was always the same: some strong points (usually powertraint), but rest simmply undercooked and well behind competition. Interiors are just awful, not only aesthetically, but also ergonomically (uncomfortable seats, pathetic storage space, etc.). They all look like they might be competitive with those imports that were sold five-tens years ago, not today.

Fords seem to be more honest efforts, but also fall short on some fronts. Fusion: good ride and all that stuff, but chassis appears to be behind with crashworthiness (not exactly a death trap, but if your crash test is worse than 10 year old Stratus, it says a lot).

When I look at imports, whether German or Japanese, they all have their problems, but one is evident: their CEOs would not be ashamed or afraid to let their spouse, daughter, cousin or niece drive even the smallest and cheapest version of their car. Some of those cars actually look like created with their relatives in mind (sort of "what would I like my niece to drive so I feel good about myself"). Many domestic vehicles on the other hand, especially those low-end scream "I am a big shot executive and ride a limo, so what do I care what you customer get". There are some exeptions: Caliber, Focus, 300, Solstice/Sky, Fusion to some extent, perhaps some Caddys (not current CTS, though). Saturn Aura maybe (I don't really care for the exterior).

I know it may be not fair, but these are my perceptions. And by the way - I'm not a big fan of Toyota, either, for somewhat different reasons. I appreciate reasons why so many people buy Camry, but it's not for me. I like niche manufacturers, like Subaru. I actually like looks of Saabs, if not their quality troubles. I love Audis, but the're getting too expensive. Acuras and Hondas are OK. Mazda is good.

rockylee

2007 Volvo S80, and 2007' GMC Sierra Denali come right to the top of my list. Of course the Slade with 22's is up there. So is the current Z06, and XLR-V

More cars will be there in the future as the new product comes from GM, and Ford. Look for the 08-09' Holden Pontiac Grand Prix, to make my future list along with the 08' CTS, and Lincoln MKS.

Why ? Just look at them They are all refined and are quality vehicles with character.

Rocky

dino001

This is your price range? I remember you writing once you were poor :surprise:

Another thing - you seem to tout "virtual" cars that are not in showrooms yet and all we can see are bits and pieces in corporate marketing fliers. This is not enough to make judgments about quality or refinement, not for me at least. I look for what's here and now and so far I can see is Cobalt, Malibu and 15-year-old Grand Prix, redressed for 5th time :P

When those mythical wonder come, we could talk more about them.

iluvmysephia1

Glad you asked that. My next car will be a 2007 Suzuki SX4. The amount of content in that car for only $14,999 scares the daylights out of me. The crossover has Fiat in it's blood as well as Suzuki and that's a good thing. Fiat influences it to have European looks and handling is all-world. In other words this car is truly unique in it's powerplant.

To be able to cover all the bases-that is-to be able to drive in FWD(2WD), AWD-Auto for rainy driving conditions and AWD-Lock for 4WD driving conditions is outstanding for driving condition coverage type.

Add to that a tight turning radius, great fresh body styling, great Warranty(second only to Hyundai and Kia in the Warranty department), safety equipment literally abound with 4-wheel discs at all 4 corners, ABS brakes with Electronic Brake force distribution for increased safety in a full-blown Occidental/Accidental type of a situation, airbags coming out your Jim Carrey ears come a "Mary Samson" type of a crash at the airport, airbags for your passengers in the rear seat, crumple zones and more.

A miles-per-gallon ghastly trip ahhh-taaa-maa-ter(very, very nice), power windows/locks/mirrors, front and rear skidplate, roof rails, air condtioning, tilt wheel w/power assisted steering and an AM/FM/CD/MP3-XM-ready stereo w/4 speakers all standard equipment.

Truly a breakthrough car for Suzuki. The 7 year and 100,000 mile Warranty includes towing for breakdowns and a 5-day loaner car for Warranty covered repairs.

Oh, I almost forget to mention something this car also has. Fun. Gobs and loads and gobs and gobs of fun.

Wave to the snotty truck drivers as you flit happily by them blasting Foghat and ZZ Top. Yes, this car is the one.

Suzuki will sell me my next car. When will that be? I know you all want to ask me. Dunno. Could be tomorrow-no need to wait on it. :shades:

snakeweasel

I still see no GM cars I would like to own.

I like the lineup Caddy has and one or two pontiacs. Plus the Chevy Aveo might come into play as my next purchase will be strictly for commuting and you can get a stripped one for under 10K.

Fords seem to be more honest efforts,

I agree but some tend to look a little sterile.

When I look at imports, whether German or Japanese,

Europe leaves me to cold or to poor. Few things out of Japan turn my head, nothing from Toyota and Honda but Mazda has a few I like. I like what Hyundai has been doing they have a couple of cars I really like.

snakeweasel

So is the current Z06, and XLR-V

Between the two I would get the Vette. If you go for the XLR save yourself 25 grand and don't get the V.

dino001

I like the lineup Caddy has and one or two pontiacs. Plus the Chevy Aveo might come into play as my next purchase will be strictly for commuting and you can get a stripped one for under 10K.

You already know what I think about CTS interior. Others are just too big for me (never liked road barges). Aveo? Well, if going this low, I would probably opt for Accent or Rio5 before getting Aveo, even if paying more - but would at least test drive it.

snakeweasel

You already know what I think about CTS interior.

Actually I don't, but is is no worse than some other luxury makes.

rockylee

I am poor compared to some posters. I did "tout" virtual cars, some are being produced in foreign country's like the Holden Commodore aka Pontiac Grand Prix. I however did mention the 07' Sierra Denali, Escalade, Volvo S80, all which have been at least track tested.

Rocky

snakeweasel

I do have to say I like the Volvo C30. It is supposed to be heading stateside.

rockylee

I'm not much of a C30 fan. OTOH, the C-70 is very nice. I'd buy one if it had AWD and alot more power. Ho, well maybe a "R" version will come out in the next year or 2.

Rocky

nippononly

Oh yeah, the C30 has my eye too. That car has what it takes (on paper) to be my first Volvo ever. I like Volvos in principle, but they have never produced a nice small car. They have started at large-compact, and moved up from there, except for the nasty little Mitsubishi-sourced S40s in the first series of that model.

But then, if Alfa really makes it back to the States before 2009, I like the look of that little 2-door (model designation?) they will be introducing too.

And there's always the Mini Cooper, but I need them to build a dealership closer to me before that will ever happen.

GM and Ford have nothing either now or in the pipe, with the exception of the Opel Corsa which may come here as a Saturn, that will attract my dollars. But if DCX ends up actually building the Hornet (and it's NOT built by VW at a Mexican plant), that will definitely get a look-see.

Apart from that, my eye is on getting into the second year of the next-gen Fit, around 2 1/2 years from now, which is a long way out. Can I go that long without buying a new car? Probably not. :sick:

snakeweasel

The C70 pushes the envelope for what I would be willing to spend on a car in the foreseeable future. But the V50 might be doable.

snakeweasel

Apart from that, my eye is on getting into the second year of the next-gen Fit, around 2 1/2 years from now, which is a long way out. Can I go that long without buying a new car? Probably not.

I am going to try (hoping for at least three more years), I am not going to buy a new car until my current daily drive (a 2000 Elantra wagon) quits on me. So far it is running great so I am hoping for many more miles on it.

dino001

Actually I don't, but is is no worse than some other luxury makes

I disagree - CTS interior is undercooked to say the least. Look at storage compartment - smaller than my father's 99 Civic! Seats are so-so, aesthetics are well behind. There is a promise of big improvement for the next generation - we will see. I believe you have CTS-V, which might be better a bit. Or is it somebody else?

snakeweasel

I disagree

Disagree if you must but I found that the interior is no less displeasing than say a 5 series (which I really thought was rather bland IMHO).

And no, its not someone else.

rockylee

snake, pony up and live. You are rich enough to have a drop-top to compliment your CTS-V.

Rocky

snakeweasel

I would rather not spend large amounts of cash on depreciatable objects. If it wasn't for the fact that the Caddy was a steal I wouldn't be driving it, I would have just the regular CTS. If I do get a ragtop it might just be a Mustang, thats what she who must be obeyed wants.

dhanley

"You already know what I think about CTS interior.

Actually I don't, but is is no worse than some other luxury makes."

I was exploring interiors a lot at the last chicago auto show, and i though cadillac wasn't merely behind most of the other luxury makes, i though it's interior wasn't as good as that of a "optioned" jetta.

ben911

It's looking like VW will be the next car company to try and earn my business. I'll be putting in an order next week for one. I can barely wait. I'll keep you up to date.

Ben

lilengineerboy

I'll be putting in an order next week for one.
For what?

rockylee

If I do get a ragtop it might just be a Mustang, thats what she who must be obeyed wants.

"I totally understand what it's like having a supervisor at home is about"

Rocky

explorerx4

doesn't mean she is wrong. i bought one 15 years ago, still love it. one of my kids can drive it now, the other will in a couple of years.

bumpy

is going to be either a smart fortwo or whatever the Project Kimber crew comes up with. I want my 60 mpg RWD microcar.

rockylee

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061004/AUTO01/610040420/- 1148

Rocky

snakeweasel

No it doesn't mean she is wrong, but after owning two Mustangs in my life I am pretty well Mustanged out. I would rather try something new.

snakeweasel

My understanding is that the Smart will be a gasser so don't expect 60 MPG. I will look at it, but pricing and how it rides will be major factors.