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Comments
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Camry is not a candidate for me either...not a fan of too soft suspensions and there is the vague handling thing there as well. I've read their SE is better in those respects, but then there is the high price...
Nope, a 3.5 is the base engine. I agree a ecotec would be better than a 3.5 V-6. I wished GM, would scrap that engine.
Rocky
You can get the Ecotech 2.4L 4CYL in the value edition and the Base model. The 3.5L used to be the standard engine in 2005. The 3.5L V6 is now part of the Sport Pkg for the Base model and standard on the GT. The 3.9L V6 is an option for the GT. The 3.6L V6 is standard on the GTP.
I often don't get corrected on GM, cars.
Rocky
Since most cars sell for below MSRP then by your standards most cars are failures (to one degree or another) simply because they failed to meet their mark.
Are you pretending to not understand, or you just pulling my leg here? You know well that it is about expectations, not firm numbers. Everybody expects their product to get to the point of discount - the question is when and how large. Please don't tell me GM was actually aiming to get people G6s at $15.5K in its midcycle, because if they did, they are in worse shape than I thought.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I understand what you said perfectly and I am applying it across the board. You specifically said that the car that was stickered at $21K and sold for $15.5k was a failure because it didn't hit its mark. Applying that statement across the board to all cars that means any car that sells below MSRP is a failure to one degree or another.
You know well that it is about expectations, not firm numbers. Everybody expects their product to get to the point of discount - the question is when and how large.
But thats not what you said, you said " To measure their success, you need to think about their target and their achievement. Target - $21K, achievement - $15.5K." In this case the $21K (target) was the sticker price, you made no qualifying statement as to adjusting it for "expected discounts".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But aren't those inflated list prices hurting them, as in many comparisons these are the referenced prices? I understand it was introduced few years ago to get more people approved for loans, as cashback worked as a "virtual downpayment" on a car. But today it is almost an alternate reality, when you have tens of thousands taken off sticker in case of large SUV just to get people interested...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I know of a person who drove 40K miles in a jetta doing this.
Stuck-up girl, her daddy bought her the car, and i guess she expected he'd just buy her another if the engine blew.
Swap out caddy CTS for saab 9-3 and you're back on track.
My ex-wife abused an Olds Calais with the Quad-4 engine in a similar manner. This was before I knew her...had I known her at the time I would've read her the riot act! Anyway, she said that it made it to about 80,000 miles with no oil changes, over the course of two years, and then got re-popped. She had a bad habit of lending it out to friends who drove the hell out of it.
I guess it's possible that the oil and filter were never changed, and maybe just more oil was added as the level got low? I just can't imagine a car going 80,000 miles on its original 5 quarts of oil. Especially since nowadays they consider it "normal" for a car to burn a quart every 1000 miles!
I'd imagine the car also needed tires at some point in its life.
I know people who buy Caddies and drive them for a year without doing anything to them except fill it up with gas. Of course they don't drive 40K miles in that year but maybe as much as 18k.
One of the reasons that I don't buy used cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Who considers that normal? My daily drive is approaching 140K miles and I don't burn anywhere near a quart in the 5,000 miles I drive between oil changes.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Does that $2750 per copy include a lowball offer on trade, plus extended warranties, "Mop & Glow", etc?
I think I'd pick something like this vehicle
andres3 give this guy his 1,000,000 (1,000,000 what I don't know but he won then just the same).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
When he called at 4:00 to see if it would be ready by 5:00, he was put on hold until the service manager came on the line to read him the riot act. Apparently, they started draing the oil at 7:45, but it was so thick and slow coming out that it had just reached the drain pan an hour before and was still draining.
If that had been me, I'd have told no one, but he was proud of it and told everyone.
The first was the father of one of my high school friends. He had a 1972 Dart with a slant six that, by the time it had about 100,000 miles on it, around 1989, rarely got driven and ultimately wouldn't start. Eventually they dropped the tags but left it parked on the street, and the county found out and told them to tag it or it would get impounded. They offered to give it to me if I could get it started. I finally did and it seemed to run okay, but then a rubber fuel line ruptured and started spraying. I'm thinking okay, so 2 bucks for some hose and it'll run but my friend started freaking, told his parents about the fuel leak, and they refused to give me such a "dangerous" car! :confuse: So it got towed.
The other two cars didn't fare nearly as well. One was a 1990 or so Tercel that our LAN administrator at work drove. Now you'd think that someone who deals with computers would know that machinery needs to be maintained and taken care of. Well, at about 63,000 miles his engine seized up. He had never changed his oil, just added occasionally.
The other was an assistant manager at Little Caesar's...a dark time in my life. He and his girlfriend (more like his baby's mama) had a mid-90's Corolla. Well guess what? Reputation be damned, a mid-90's Corolla will still seize its engine if you let it run out of oil! :surprise:
Well, he got a new car and since the Granada was worthless, he decided to have fun with it. He claims he drained all the oil out and drove around in it for about a month, and couldn't get it to self-destruct. He did say it had been Slick-50'ed or something like that, but I've always been leery of that kind of stuff. Well, he said that he gave it to someone after about a month, and the engine finally blew a month or so later.
Now how long, realistically, could an engine be expected to run without oil? I know if it's not under load, like in a laboratory in a Slick-50 commercial, it can go for quite some time. But what about in the real world?
A.) The engine was still running
and
B.) That there was any oil left to drain.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not sure but I had the Mopar slant six and I swear that thing could run with just a drop of oil in it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wish the G6 line-up was a bit more simplified though. Two of the four engines are options, you can only get such-and-such on this model, etc... It's all a bit confusing. Saturn's line-up makes more sense, but I won't mention Chevy's Malibu because that doesn't deserve my attention. What do you think, guys? Malibu the worst in class? I'd have to say so, considering Stratus/Sebring are being replaced and Verona's out the door. Wretched car that represents everything that is wrong with GM. Your thoughts?
One thing that annoys with GM is that they spend more time on cute names and slogans than quality product delivery:
Ecotech - ecological, technology - even though their engines are more primitive
Firebird, Firenza, Fiero - like breathing fire, high energy
Hearbeat of America, An American Revolution, Baseball Hot Dogs Apple Pie and Chevrolet - if patriotic, must want a GM car. What is this Revolution? - waiting for a long time now, always next year. Perhaps the Revolution is outsourcing manufacturing?
Don't hear Honda, Toyota using these silly terms. They just deliver (generally) better fit, finish, quality, reliability, and refinement. Honda is a leader in engine technology. Toyota is way ahead in hybrid powerplants. Their effort is in delivery.
GM naming conventions and advertising are somewhat embarassing. Not sure priorities are in the right place, perhaps now improving.
And the "Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet" jingle hasn't been used for, how long now?
So... should I assume that GM has been ripped for pretty much every wrong they've done, so you are now scraping the barrel for any more petty criticisms? GM is a very flawed corporation, but some people would like to think it's a helluva lot worse than it is. It's ridiculous.
The Cobalt was actually fun to drive.
The Corolla was the worst car I have ever driven. It shocked me at how uncomfortable it was and how loud and unresponsive the engine was.
I'm actually planning on buying a Cobalt now.
Also, my mother's 2006 Impala is a really nice ride. Comfy, quiet, great on the freeway. I wish I could afford one, but in any case i need a smaller more fuel efficient car anyway.
No the Revolution will be the result of outsourcing. I'll be buying stock in Gillette as they'll be making a lot of money manufacturing guillotine blades.
From actual experience Toyota & Honda have horrible customer service both before and after purchase. I have not run into that with either Chevy or GMC. They have both been great to deal with. Even when I buy the vehicle out of state and have them take care of service and warranty. Bob Stall Chevrolet in San Diego even gave me free oil changes on my Suburban that was purchased in Idaho. Try that with your Toyota or Honda.
No the Revolution will be the result of outsourcing. I'll be buying stock in Gillette as they'll be making a lot of money manufacturing guillotine blades.
Hmm, you would be a little late, Gillette just got purchased and absorbed by Proctor and Gamble, a nice fortune 500 company based out of a lil town named Cincinnati.
Sorry that they didn't give you the service you deserve. I've found GOOD and BAD service at most brands that I've owned. I can't personally speak for Honda's after the sale service as I've never been able to get over their prior-purchase service (attitude).
My current Toyota dealership (third one due to transfers) is very good in all ways. I would've liked to have found them 30 years ago! I tried to buy Honda in 1977, 1980, 1998, and 2006. However, the same "we're the best and we charge full MSRP or more" attitude stopped me everytime.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are lucky you missed out on the 77-80 Honda. I was unfortunate enough to end up with a new 1978 Accord. Not a good car from many aspects. The dealer was a motorcycle dealer in St Cloud MN. He was fine to deal with. He just did not get any support from Honda Corporate. They were rotten to the core. Their attitude was and is, we build the best and it must be YOUR fault if it breaks.
I hear that on a radio commercial in the last couple of months.
I hear that on a radio commercial in the last couple of months.
It was on TV just yesterday during the baseball playoff game.
How about to check the oil once in a while?
Many years ago I found out a secretary where I work never changed oil and only added it whenever the red oil pressure light came on. I don't know know how that worked out for her.
Oh I don't know, I still check under mine every 2 or 3 fill ups. You still should periodically check things under the hood and once every 5k mikes isn't often enough.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I guess that's probably not something I should admit to, though.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D