GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda...Who will sell you your next car?

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Comments

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Why I thought your were rich enough ;)

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...a 1980s Rolls-Royce going for $19,999 on a Suzuki lot of all places. I wonder how much they gave him for his trade towards a new Aerio?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    :P Not nearly as rich as you snake. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Now that's crazy !!!!

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    You want to trade bank accounts?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yeah, because having your bank account I'd be able to retire and choose "any" luxury car, and house in the six-figure spectrum and not even notice I blew some of it. ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I wish :blush:

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    mmmmhmmm, It's not a matter of wishing, but like all you rich guys you play "poor me" "I'm poor" ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    while not poor I am not rich. I am somewhere in the middle third of the middle class.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    And I'm suppose to believe that? :P Middle class doesn't register with somebody like you. You are more like upper class. ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Upper class twit maybe (for you python fans out there).

    And I had a heck of a time waking the neighbor :P

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    That would be Upper Class Twit of the year, amigo.

    Now that we have in-depth understanding of mr. snakeweasel's socioeconomic status, let's return to the subject alluded to in the discussion title.

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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Agree. ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    That would be Upper Class Twit of the year, amigo.

    Ah but seeing that I am still alive I must have lost that contest.

    Back on topic I had the opportunity a little over a month ago to drive the Lincoln MKX. My wife fell in love with it and I have to say that I really liked the car. Depending on how things go that just might be the next car.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Ya gotta love a moderator that knows her Python.
  • jordanrobinsonjordanrobinson Member Posts: 42
    Unfortunatly my dealership doesn't have the Lincoln franchise. :( The MKX is nice! But I'm VERY interested in the MKZ. We have a used 2006 Zephyr and it's a pretty nice car. With the new engine and front end for 2007 I think it'll be an amazing vehicle for the price. Now if only I could afford one. :cry:

    To touch on the conversation topic though, very likely my next new car will be a Ford Fusion. It's not the MKZ, but it's close enough for now, especially with the full leather trim and interior upgrade. :D
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,938
    When I proposed a contest to do no maintenance (hence abusing and neglecting your vehicle w/o oil changes), I was just proposing a hypothetical contest.

    WHAT IF.... someone offered a 1,000,000 prize to win a contest, drive the most miles in a car w/o doing a single maintenance task (no oil changes) All you could do was add gas, add air to tires, that's it.

    If I wanted to win that million, I'd invest in a previous generation Toyota Camry, or Corolla in the UNDER 25K category.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • jpfjpf Member Posts: 496
    We traded in a 2000 S10 for a base 2006 Dodge Caravan SE. One thing I noticed while vehicle shopping is that it's difficult to find a "base" model these days in anything but small cars and trucks. Dodge is the only company that makes a base minivan. With all the other manufacturers you must buy power windows, power locks, power mirrors, etc. We just want auto, air and a CD player. Hopefully, Dodge will still make the base Caravan in 5 years when we make our next purchase.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    Needed a new car for. Had a short list for good crash test scores, affordable, reliable, etc... Tried the '07 Rabbit and to much $ for what you get. Tried the '07 Civic, not enough car for the $. Tried the '07 G6 and BINGO. An almost $21K car purchased for $15.5K (after all dealer and factory rebates/discounts). Even got more for our trade-in than the others offered.

    The G6 is built on the Epsilon platform as is the Saturn Aura, the Cady CTS, and the Chevy Malibu. There's a lot of room in the G6 (except for rear head room). Got the 162HP 4 cyl with 4-speed auto, ABS, side curtain bags, remote start, sun roof, upgrade stereo, and a few other extras. Got it for MUCH less $$$ than Rabbit or Civic. Also has the 5year 100K mile power train warranty. :D

    Is it perfect? No. Is it a good value? YES!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I'd invest in a previous generation Toyota Camry, or Corolla

    The 1990s were good years for those cars. I don't think they are that reliable anymore. Too much electronic crap to die. Many of the sensors that cause fits are required for emissions. So you are stuck. I went out looking for a clean late 90s model Camry. Not many around for sale.
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    You're thinking of the Caddy BLS, the Europe-only FWD Caddy.

    But wow, there's something good! You didn't look at just domestics, or just imports, you looked at both. I think the G6 looks like a pretty good car. It doesn't seem to be talked about much, though. Do you like the interior? That's the one thing people complain about most, it seems. It's not really my style, but surely it's better than a Malibu's interior (blech, even in official photos it looks like an abhorrent pot o' plastics)
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    The interior is spacious, but could be better quality. It's a lot like the 2002 Altima we had. We currently own two Toyota vehicles (Matrix and Highlander). Every time we buy, we look for the best value in any brand. Had the new Corolla been out or the Camry been less expensive with better crash scores and no transmission woes, then we might have a 3rd Toyota. Our last American vehicle was a 2004 Ford F-150. It replaced a Toyota Tundra.

    The CIVIC is a well made vehicle, but to small for us and a bit overpriced. The A-pillar creates a significant blind spot which probably depends on each driver's height/sitting position. Also, Honda sales still has close to that same smug attitude they had back in the '70s. We have the best product, so pay up or shut up. I told them that a honda product was worth more to me than a Pontiac. However, I was not going to pay full MSRP. They didn't seem to care, so we walked/drove next door to Pontiac.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    With all the other manufacturers you must buy power windows, power locks, power mirrors

    Uh...with many manufactures those equipments are standard on ALL models, from "base" to top of the line.

    I can't believe Dodge is still making cars that don't have power windows and locks. To me that is just unacceptable and I can't believe you are actually praising them for it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well on a Work truck, I know many farmers that want manual everything. So yeah I wouldn't praise them for it, but on a WT I could see a market for it. ;)

    Rocky
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Isn't it a failure when a car that is advertized to compete with Camry, Altima and Accord is purchased by a Civic buyer?

    Isn't it a failure when car with $21K tag needs to be discounted to less than 75% of its price to get sold?

    Comapared to Civic, it is a great bargain, as you get more stuff for less money. But something is broken if they had to go that low to get buyer's interest.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    I'm probably one of the few people in the world that prefers manual everything. I do have to admit power windows are nice on a four door car.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'm probably one of the few people in the world that prefers manual everything.

    Gosh, you are kinda like my dad that way. If it wasn't standard equipment he wouldn't have it. ;)

    I do have to admit power windows are nice on a four door car.

    Yep, and it improves safety since you don't have to reach across the car while you are driving to roll down the window. ;)

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    It's funny, because the oroginal concept G6 was supposed to go up against the TSX and there were even references to it being a TL competitor...

    Just like the Lacrosse was supposed to take on the likes of the TL and ES, it is now relegated to 17,9xx after cash back offers.

    One thing consistant about GM cars is they consistantly fall short of expectations...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Toyota introduces new version of the sedan in Japan, not available in United States until 2008.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061011/AUTO01/610110354/1148-

    Rocky
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    After a bad experience with power windows (replacing every single motor multiple times on a domestic vehicle in the 80s) my folks swore off power windows. The domestic minivan they got next had power rear most windows and manual front windows. The next car, an American built Japanese car in the 90s had power windows, each one was replaced at least once.
    I don't think adding weight and mechanical complexity as well as the pending repair cost is a great feature for some people. If you can't put down your cheeseburger or cell phone long enough to roll down the window... maybe there are other aspects to be examined.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    Isn't it a failure when a car that is advertized to compete with Camry, Altima and Accord is purchased by a Civic buyer?

    Could be a success that they got a Civic buyer to step up for more content at less money.

    Isn't it a failure when car with $21K tag needs to be discounted to less than 75% of its price to get sold?

    The factory rebate was $2K or about 10%. The remaining discounts were dealer discount and GM Card Rebate. Yes, the bottom line is a substantial savings for me. I'd call that a success for me and GM did sell another car. So, call that whatever you want to call it.

    Comapared to Civic, it is a great bargain, as you get more stuff for less money. But something is broken if they had to go that low to get buyer's interest.

    The G6 was already on my short list. At one point, so were the Camry, Altima, Passat, Jetta, and Accord. GM made it to the short list and got the sale.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If you can't put down your cheeseburger or cell phone long enough to roll down the window... maybe there are other aspects to be examined.

    But there is something about the ability to hit a button and roll up your windows when you are driving down the road and it starts pouring without having to reach across the car or behind you (or both).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    If I were choosing between only a honda civic and a G6...the G6 would probably have good chance of winning. But, I am not really considering anything from GM. Primary reasons are the reputation for vague handling and their refusal to equip any 4 cylinder car with more than a 4 speed automatic.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    A 2002 Toyota Tundra that required complete brake job at 6K miles fell short of my expectations. A 2002 Nissan Altima that had air bag failure fell far short of my expectations. A 2006 Honda Pilot and a 2007 Honda Civic that both had terrible road noise fell short of my expectations.

    GM's expectations for a car don't really concern me. The G6 (so far) has met or exceeded my expectations. Time will tell if it will continue to pass or fail them.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,040
    if power windows really add all that much weight to a car. I replaced two power window motors myself in my '79 New Yorker, and those things couldn't have been more than 3-5 pounds apiece. And it's a safe bet that, since 1979, they've only gotten smaller, lighter, and flimsier. Now as for complexity and cost, yeah they do add that. These windows didn't actually cost me anything to replace, because I had an '89 Gran Fury that wasn't running anymore, which I was able to cannibalize. I priced them though online, and I think they were about $70 apiece. Once I learned how to do it, I could probably put one in in under an hour, but I'm sure that a repair shop would find a way to make it two or more. :mad:

    Plus, with bigger cars it's sometimes hard to reach over to the passenger side to roll a window up or down. The only reason I can reach the passenger side on my DeSoto is because it doesn't have seatbelts, so I can kinda slide over. My '67 Catalina, with its 62.5" or so of shoulder room, is almost impossible to reach over. And I'm glad my pickup has power windows, because there's no way I'd be able to reach over to the passenger side.

    My '68 Dart hardtop was just about perfect though. I could reach any of the four windows, while belted, with no trouble at all. And those older windows rolled down faster too. I think it's a combination of smaller windows and good old fashioned metal components. If you made those tape drive thingies today roll up and down that fast, they'd probably chew themselves up in record time.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    I am not really considering anything from GM. Primary reasons are the reputation for vague handling and their refusal to equip any 4 cylinder car with more than a 4 speed automatic

    The V6 G6 vehicles have hydraulic rather than electric steering. That may help resolve your concern. I didn't want a v6. I went to the dealership with an open-mind, but was still surprised with the G6. (I wouldn't have the Value Edition as you can't get ABS with it.) I also would prefer a 5- or 6-speed automatic. However, I don't want one if it comes with program errors (Camry).

    GM would certainly do much better if the G6 had a better interior and a good 5 or 6 speed automatic. The GTP has the 3.6 V6 with 6-speed auto and seems to be selling quite well. Of course, it cost a few pennies more... Kind of in the same neighborhood as the Camry SE, the Altima SE-R, and the Accord EX.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    If you can't put down your cheeseburger or cell phone long enough to roll down the window... maybe there are other aspects to be examined.

    But there is something about the ability to hit a button and roll up your windows when you are driving down the road and it starts pouring without having to reach across the car or behind you (or both).

    Until the motor fails or it jams, like when you roll down the window to pay the guy at the parking lot and then it won't go back up...or it thankfully broke in the up position so you dont get rained on but have to open the door to use the drive up ATM or pay the parking guy...
    I guess I have had these experiences and one similar to yours but I found mine to be more disruptive. In the spirit of full disclosure, both of our vehicles have power windows now. One of them is the hand-me down from my parents and the second one it was standard and has an extended warranty covering that component.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Your persistence to get a car at a decent price is commendable. Many people would go ahead and pay MSRP on something they want. I would NEVER pay MSRP for any vehicle on this planet. Anything over Invoice is money down the toilet. I don't think pricing has as much to do with quality as it does with other costs that GM is incurring. Hope you have many years of driving pleasure with your G6.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Crank windows can break too. My daughter's Contour window crank broke...the spindle not the crank itself. Luckily it was almost closed at the time and she was able to get it the rest of the way up. Not worth the cost of repair to her (as a poor college student) since the car has 140K mi. and is probably living on borrowed time.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Until the motor fails or it jams,

    Well when that happens I will let you know. To be honest you can have issues with hand crank windows too. I know I have had that happen, never with a power window yet just the hand cranks.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Could be a success that they got a Civic buyer to step up for more content at less money.

    Your success, not theirs - they aimed for a guy willing to spend 21 grand and got one who was willing to spend only $15.5. Step up for you, step down for them - by their marketing dept. you were considered their target demographics for Cav.., sorry Cobalt.

    GM made it to the short list and got the sale.

    Why? Because it was so great, or because it was so cheap? And not really good cheap (i.e. their initial target price), but discounted cheap.

    I'd call that a success for me and GM did sell another car.

    Again - you missing the point. To measure their success, you need to think about their target and their achievement. Target - $21K, achievement - $15.5K. None of their major import competitors needs to discount that heavily to get their business. Would you buy G6 for their initial asking price $21K, given you had the money to spend? Camcord's success is based on people willing to shell out full price and still be happy about it. GM needs to put cash back and really heavy loyalty discount for you to get interested.

    Anyway - congratulations to you - you got fantastic price and it is all that should count for you.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,040
    I've had a few problems with them, but most of them were old-age related. I've broken two cranks, one in a 1980 Malibu and one in a 1969 Dart. My neighbor had an old junk '62 or so Chevy II that he let me swipe the cranks from, and I put them in my Malibu. The cranks were built sturdier back in the 60's, but I think one reason the newer ones broke more easily was because the plastic knob may have been designed to break away in an accident if you hit it hard enough. And anything that's designed to break is going to be more fragile as it ages than something that's not.

    In my '68 Dart, the part where the window attaches to the lift broke, so the window would remain upright when you tried to roll it down. And if you pushed it down it would fall all the way into the door and you couldn't get it back out. I fixed it with some spare nuts and bolts I found in my grandma's garage.

    The passenger side window on my '79 Newport broke one of the teeth in the lift mechanism, so it wouldn't roll up all the way. If you opened the door and pulled the window up it would stay closed, but then wouldn't roll back down unless you pushed it with your hand to get it down past that first broken gear tooth. To be fair though, the car had about 240,000 miles on it by that time!

    As for power windows, well I had two fail in my Gran Fury, and two fail in my '79 New Yorker. Actually, it turned out to be just a little plastic gear that broke apart in one of the NYer's windows. I know my pickup truck, which Granddad bought new in 1985, got a new driver's side window around 1991. A few years back the switch itself broke. That was about $40. And now, the window motor seems to be failing again. It'll still go up and down, but seems to have dead spots where you have to help it along. My grandparents bought an '85 LeSabre brand-new, and its window motors were all original when we got rid of it with 157,000 miles on it in 2002. I think one of the fronts was getting a little slow though.

    And luckily, my 2000 Intrepid's window motors have all been fine. The driver's side makes a creaking noise sometimes, but it's been doing that for years.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Again - you missing the point. To measure their success, you need to think about their target and their achievement. Target - $21K, achievement - $15.5K.

    So than I take it that any car that is sold for less than MSRP is a failure? So if the car stickers for 21K but sells for $20,999.99 it failed because it missed its mark. Maybe not as bad as if it sold for $15k but it still missed its mark.

    Since most cars sell for below MSRP then by your standards most cars are failures (to one degree or another) simply because they failed to meet their mark.

    Camcord's success is based on people willing to shell out full price and still be happy about it.

    You can get Camcords for under MSRP so I guess they are failures because they missed their mark.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    Thank you!

    I certainly agree and have felt the same way for some time. I purchased my first vehicle ($200 used 1961 Ford Falcon) about 33 years ago. Since then, I've purchased 35 vehicles - used, then new vehicles. I know that I was taken on some. I also know that I normally won great deals.

    Some time ago, I learned that buying cars is sort of like the stock market. Buy low - sell high! A few months ago was a super time to purchase a large SUV (if you wanted one), but not a 4 CYL car. Gas prices dipped, so I got the 4 CYL, we needed. A few months from now, we'll be back to a high demand for 4 Cyl cars.

    Well enough of that "off topic" stuff. I've owned 11 Fords, 1 Mercury, 3 Chevys, 2 GMCs, 3 Pontiacs, 1 Saturn, 1 BMW, 1 Mercedes, 1 SAAB, 1 Plymouth, 2 Dodges, 2 Nissans, 5 Toyotas, and 1 Chrysler. This year, I purchased a 2006 Toyota Highlander in March and the 2007 Pontiac G6 this month.

    I hope to take 2007 off for car buying and look forward to the 2008/2009 models.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    you can have issues with hand crank windows too.

    In Prudhoe Bay Alaska we kept spare window cranks for our Ford and Chevy trucks and vans. They broke on a regular basis. Frozen windows are common. The electric ones would not go down sometimes when they froze. I have only had one window failure in my personal vehicles. It was a back window in my Suburban. It may have been bad from the factory. I did not realize it until it was a couple years old. Covered by warranty so no big deal. I like power windows and doors.
  • turboshadowturboshadow Member Posts: 338
    Can you get the G6 with an Ecotec and a stick? I'd prefer the V-6 and stick, but I don't think they'll build them that way.

    The power windows in the Turbo Shadow were both shot, which was a pain because neither the AC nor the heater worked. My 69 Charger had power windows, which were nice 'cause it was a big car. Both manual windows in the back of my 73 CJ Torino broke, so no, they aren't perfect ether...

    As for the ubcompacts, has anyone lived with the SX4 for a little while? I'd consider one when the rebates start.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    Anyway - congratulations to you - you got fantastic price and it is all that should count for you

    It is and thank you!
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    I beleive that you can only get a stick with the 3.5L or the 3.9L V-6. I know you can't get it with the Ecotech 4 or the 3.6 V-6 which comes with 6-speed auto.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    To be honest if I were in Prudhoe bay in winter behind a wheel of a truck I would take it down the Haul road through Fairbanks onto the Alaska Highway into Dawsons creek then south across the US Canadian boarder and get on a south bound interstate and not stop until I saw the Gulf of Mexico.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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