GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda...Who will sell you your next car?

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Comments

  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    We buy what is best for us--and if what is best for us is American, then that's great. But not required.

    I believe that you speak for a large segment of the marketplace that will buy domestics if they like them, if the cars serve their needs, and if they feel that they can count on them. If they first improve the cars and then get the word out that they have improved, then I have little doubt that they could mount a comeback.

    I just have my doubts that GM will do this and give Ford mixed odds for accomplishing this. Oddly enough, Chrysler seems to have the best shot at doing this, something I never thought that I would have said even 5-10 years ago.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    My mother in law has never driven anything but "American cars" in the 15 years I've known her.

    Have a 70 year-old neighbor who has been driving since his teens. A few months ago, he test drove many brands of sedans (American and foreign) and bought a Hyundai Azera. He said he thought it was best value/quality for his price range. He said it was his first non-American brand vehicle he purchased in his life.
  • atlvibeatlvibe Member Posts: 109
    My next door neighbors pulled up in a new Avalon the other day. They are both age wise mid to late 70's. They told me that they had never owned an import brand. Furthermore, they told me that they did not shop a domestic brand this time. These are semi-affluent people that have always owned premium domestics brands. However, these brands never hit their radar screen this time. The big never got a shot at them this go round.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    OK how about this image of a CXT?

    image

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Now that's a TRUCK!!!

    What is amazing is I have not seen one on the road here in San Diego...
  • heel2toeheel2toe Member Posts: 149
    The IIHS publishes both collision ratings and loss data. It is very interesting to notice the differences in injury loss data for different vehicle classes, and it definitely reinforces the notion that bigger is better (at least in a collision).
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well then, may I interest you in a model made by General Dynamics, the M1 Abram Tank. Should hold up well in any collision. Can we hear from some Volvo owners? :D

    I was looking up data on death rates in cars, and the Miata seems to be relatively low for cars. Not exactly a massive size there. And no, I would not try it against the Abram Tank.
    -Loren
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Yhe funny thing is that that picture is to scale. International has that as a poster with "Hum This!" across the top.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "I'm considered by many a leftest liberal and have owned many domestic cars. Not all democrats drive foreign cars is all I'm saying."

    But a smart and loveable one, Rocky. Ahem, I submit the following profiles for political cars....

    Volvo - Liberal
    Toyota - Bi-partison
    Lexus - Conservative
    Chevy - Liberal
    Ford - Bi-partison
    Dodge - Liberal
    Mercedes - Bi-Partison
    Jaguar - Conservative
    Honda - Bi-partison
    Nissan - Conservative
    Cadillac - Bi-partison
    Lincoln - Irrelevant
    Hyundai - Conservative
    Kia - Liberal
    SAAB - Ultra Liberal
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "So, if one is buying a new vehicle and most everything is about equal (purchase price, size, power, mpg, features, resale value, ok neutral styling, etc) should one just go ahead and buy a 3 star vehicle rather than a 5 star vehicle?"

    I don't care about crash ratings much, the cars today are all safe enough. But I'd rather have an S-500 over an LS430. I bought the LS430 though, based on quality ratings.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Either car should be safer than a Civic in a crash. And the Civic has great crash test ratings.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    You forgot the bicycle..
    Bicycle - Green Party, Nader

    Seriously, there is nothing liberating about the liberal agenda, and nothing conservative the conservatives these days. Only words - talk and more talk. And if one thinks things through, what they are saying would yield less freedom and liberation by both the left and right - dems and republicans. Liberal party, usually means with your wallet, and conservative usually means intrusion instead of less by the government. Oh yeah, and not particularly conservative with the spending. Kinda all blends into one.

    Now, when you talk cars and image, the VW flower vase,or being stuck behind a slow moving Volvo does come to mind. I am seeing images of what type of driver is in the seat when thinking of Beetles and Volvos. I think I can usually guess that person. But that would be is the prejudice. :blush:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    being stuck behind a slow moving Volvo does come to mind.

    I thought they always cut you off in traffic. My perception was that Volvo drivers were the most discourteous. Now it is hard to find a courteous driver in any vehicle.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,040
    I don't think that International/Hummer pic really is to scale. Keep in mind that's only an 8-foot pickup bed on the back of it. So either an H3 is about 11 feet long and can actually fit in a standard-sized pickup bed, or that pic isn't really to scale. :P
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL, talk about a stereo-typing people. I guess the few Volvo drivers I see aren't discouteous. I'd love to be one of them driving a 2007' S80 :shades:

    Rocky
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    OK how about this image of a CXT?

    Apparently there is a market for CXT. Kind of reminds me of those monster trucks that have pickup cabs mounted above huge gumball wheels and whose only purpose is to drive over lined-up junkyard cars.

    Main point of CXT is intimidation. Have seen a few of these on the road. A Civic t-boning a CXT will incinerate the CXT occupants. If size matters, get a Peterbuilt tractor with mounted dump bed and put CXT to shame. Or, better yet, get a Peterbuilt wrecker complete with rear winch/hoist.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I don't think that International/Hummer pic really is to scale.

    It is to scale, (according to ITEC) if you look at the picture you will notice a sizable portion of the H3 is sticking out the back and the front tires are resting on the very edge of the tailgate.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    It is to scale, (according to ITEC) if you look at the picture you will notice a sizable portion of the H3 is sticking out the back and the front tires are resting on the very edge of the tailgate.

    Don't believe it. Wonder if that CXT could even hold a 4x8 plywood in its bed.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Apparently there is a market for CXT.

    It is my understanding that the main market for the CXT is farming, ranching, construction and transportation (towing) of mobile homes larger boats and the like.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Don't believe it.

    Then don't.

    Wonder if that CXT could even hold a 4x8 plywood in its bed.

    Most likely could, I will take a look during lunch. I have a brochure on the RXT and it states that it is 8 feet wide and I would expect the CXT to be the same width. That means it should be able to hold that easily.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    a yellow flag down here for "off-topic." I'll move this discussion back 10 yards if we can't get back on. Thanks!!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well you know topics and teflon have one thing in common, nothing sticks to them. ;)

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    But oddly, gum & duct tape stick to everything. Stay tuned for updated Membership Agreement requiring a minimum adhesive content in order to post.
    (puns to follow: Are we required to adhere to it? Isn't that tacky?)

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    I guess I should clarify--I said she has never driven anything but American cars in the 15 years I've known her. Actually, she has never bought anything but American in her life. My wife said that growing up she remembers only Chevys and Buicks. As a matter of fact, she had only bought GM until she changed to Chrysler in 2002.

    Like the stories told by atlvibe and xrunner2, brands like GM and Ford never were in the running on this go around.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,040
    Most likely could, I will take a look during lunch. I have a brochure on the RXT and it states that it is 8 feet wide and I would expect the CXT to be the same width. That means it should be able to hold that easily.

    Yeah, it should be able to hold a 4x8 sheet of plywood easily, because it's just your normal standard-sized 8-foot Ford pickup bed. Keep in mind that, while the truck itself is about 8 feet wide, the bed has those stick-out fenders that they use on dually pickups. The bed itself is still just your stock pickup bed, about 48-49" between the fender wells, and maybe 65-66" between the top rails.

    A lot of a heavy-duty truck's width is made up by the running boards and the front fenders, which stick out wide. The cab itself isn't really any wider than a pickup truck cab. In fact, many tractor trailers have used pickup cabs over the years.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The bed is a good deal wide, I was just surprised that it isn't as deep as I thought it would be.

    The cab itself isn't really any wider than a pickup truck cab. In fact,

    The cab is very wide and spacious, almost to the degree of a semi. Much bigger than a regular pickup truck.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    Did anyone see the Honda ad for Ridgeline using American images. They have the chrome silhouette of a naked lady that's on a lot of semi trucks, mudflaps, e.g., and have her coming to life and moving seductively around the Ridgeline. Then she crawls inside with another American cartoon character who's been on semitrucks a lot. I'm not sure I can recall the name, Yosimite Sam? The two take off the Ridgeline.

    I found the ad a little offensive, partly because of Honda's use of the images and the lack of taste. I.e., Honda wouldn't sell me a Ridgeline by making it seem semitrucklike with the association of the two images.

    Have others seen the ad?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I wouldn't go as far as saying I was offended. It's just unlikely you'll see either Yosemite Sam or the chrome naked lady on a yuppie pseudo-truck like the Ridgeline.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I have seen the ad, I don't see any problem with it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I'm with you. Honda and all manufacturers should have more taste than that in their advertising.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Honda ad:
    More taste - less filling. :blush:

    I should write their ads....
    ........... or maybe not :shades:

    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Hey, look my paint is fading :sick:
    I was born an icon with a shiny dark
    blue coat, and now look at me. Not
    more than a faded memory of my old
    self. :cry:

    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Speaking of Honda, I just took a survey on their website (Acura) I told them I wanted future vehicle stuff posted on the website. i.e. 2007' Acura TL Type-S :blush:

    Rocky
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    glad to see somebody else noticed the dark blue cartoon Edmund's cars have changed to light blue. Is there a rhyme or reason to this madness?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    The answer is here:
    Sylvia, "Forums Software! Your Questions Answered..." #2749, 8 Jul 2006 6:42 am
    Rather than cross-posting I'll just link to the explanation.

    BTW did you notice the orange, rectangular boxes for buttons.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • atlvibeatlvibe Member Posts: 109
    I trade.... 3/4 times a year. Each time, I take a depreciation hit. However,I enjoy trading and seeing what's out there. I run the gambit from asian, domestic, to once in a while european. Most of the time I stay w/mainstream products. However, this is my knowledge thus far. Trucks... Go Full size domestic Super duty/HD w/diesel... must be 4x4 and crew to bring back the bucks. Ford and GM both have compromises. Ford has the looks, GM has the quite engine. It's your choice. otherwise, leave the domestics alone, they cost too much to turn around so quickly. The depreciation factor and huge amount of product they put in rental fleets drops any status factor. Asian products like Toyota Camry and Honda Accord will serve you better..... Value wise and resale wise. I currently own 2 domestics...... will keep the Diesel H.D. but the other domestic will be replaced w/ an Asian. So here's the summary. Large trucks...... go Ford, GM. They make the best. When it comes to Cars...... think Asian products. They stand head and shoulders above the rest.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    a guy who actually reads the title of the topic and responds directly to it, all straightforward and all.

    Must be a newbie! :)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Looks like BMW is going to offer a sedan on the 335i model. I could be interested in something like that. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Suzuki anyone? Solo Suzuki, Champ of Grand Prix! Recall the ad? If you do, your old too! :surprise:

    Seems like they had a hard time coming even half the way close to Honda and Yamaha in American motorcycle sales. Why then the cars? Do people buy them? Is the resale still the worse of any car? How do they hold on?

    Anyone out there buying a Suzuki or Mitsubishi?

    Will those two be around by the end this decades end in the States?

    No matter how good the car, if the dealerships are few and far between, and the resale is not there, the rest becomes meaningless. Will these cars become as rare a sighting as a Packard, Studebaker, Alfa Romeo, Yugo, Renault...... or?
    -Loren
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    a pretty decent "First Look" here at Edmunds on the new Grand Vitara. Sounds like a pretty competent SUV.

    And as far as Mitsu goes, I would have no problem checking out one of their vehicles if I were shopping in their respective classes. They have a much better chance of selling me a vehicle than say Kia or GM...
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    It is more the network of dealerships and lack of resale values that would worry me, though I must admit not looking at reliability of the cars themselves. I think many others are not even getting to the stage of looking those cars over due to lack of momentum of the companies selling them. Hyundai seems to have some forward momentum and lots of action going on. I think some of these other smaller players are all but forgotten.

    Yes, I know someone that had a Grand Vitara and liked it. Actually both of the two mentioned companies may have the product, but it has to sell more and be in more dealerships to keep the forward progress going on. I wonder if Kia may actually be selling more these days. Lots of push. I never even look at them, but would rather consider the Hyundai. Selling network is stronger. -Loren
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    same problem, two different companies: no product to make themselves stand out, a failing, shrinking dealer network, and very little brand awareness on the part of the public.

    The new Grand Vitara and later this year XL7: two decent crossover SUVS in a SEA of very decent crossovers all made by manufacturers with bigger ad budgets, more brand awareness, and a million dealers.

    Actually, the GV has been redesigned to be more crossover-like yet still a bit more rugged than the typical crossovers, for better offroad ability, which flies in the face of every trend in that segment, and drags down its fuel economy at a time when oil prices have never been higher and gas just will not come down. Plus, the engine is less than inspiring.

    Rumors have floated around about Suzuki making murmurs that it might "temporarily" withdraw from the North Amrican market. I think that's likely in the next few years. The new GV and XL7 are their last shot I think. If they don't increase sales like crazy, it's adios Suzuki by 2010.

    Mitsu is bigger, but can't continue to suffer like this (sales finally holding steady or improving year over year, but still 30 and 40% below their levels 5 years ago, and dealers falling like flies all around) for too much longer before they rethink the NA market as well.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    For comparison, I saw a new Sante Fe at a dealer in NH. Gotta say, what an impressive looking vehicle. Interior looks well laid out and good quality materials (DOors were locked so it was merely an observation)Only questionable attribute would be the gas mileage in this bracket. The same holdback I have towards the Grand Vitara when compared to the latest RAV4 for instance (269hp V6 19/26 mpg, RAV4world members achieving 28 - 29 mpg)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Seems like they had a hard time coming even half the way close to Honda and Yamaha in American motorcycle sales. Why then the cars? Do people buy them? Is the resale still the worse of any car? How do they hold on?"

    Who cares, Loren? They're "incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial"....to quote Hamilton Burger....
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,040
    I actually kinda like the new Suzuki Vitara. There are much better vehicles out there, but I like its styling. Proportion-wise, I think they got the headlight size right in relation to the grille. Too many cars overdo it on the headlights, IMO. And I like its squared-up, angular lines.

    But it's not enough to make me run out and buy one. I did kinda like the goofy little Aerio, too. But again, I'm not willing to back up that sentiment with any cold, hard cash.

    Does Suzuki really build anything of its own in the Japanese market? I know the Reno/Forenza/Verona are just rebadged Daewoos. And the Aerios' been discontinued I think. Then there's the Assender, which I'm sure they're not going to sell in Japan.

    So is the Vitara the only thing they actually build themselves these days?
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Does Suzuki really build anything of its own in the Japanese market?

    Suzuki is the major player in Japan's micro-car market. Suzuki itself is a sales leader and it makes micro-cars for Nissan as well.

    None of these cars are exported to the US. I am not sure whether Suzuki exports any of them elsewhere.

    The Vitara, a handsome little truck, by the way, is the only vehicle Suzuki makes for sale in the US, anyway.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Hehehe. The Ascender is an Isuzu! (well, not really, REALLY it's a rebadged Trailblazer, but you get my point)

    They still sell the Aerio, which is all Suzuki Japan. The Reno/Verona/Forenza (Verona discontinued, right?) are all Daewoos, you are correct.

    Plus, hello everyone, there is also the XL7, which is also all Suzuki Japan.

    And yes, Suzuki is the king of microcars in its home market. it's a shame, Suzuki does so well in Japan, but they could never really gain a foothold here. It will be a bit of a relief for everyone when they are gone, I think.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    the Suzuki Forenza so I'm looking for them out on the road or people of this region(Idaho, Utah and Arizona)are snapping them up like hotcakes but I saw dozens of them on the freeways of Utah and Arizona on a recent vacation to Arizona with my wife. I'm not kidding.

    Driver's of the Forenza's liked to "mix it up" on the freeways, too. Aggressive driving-the cars must be fairly comfortable for them to drive zip-quicky.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,040
    any of them because fuel economy ain't so hot, but I think the Forenza and the Verona are actually good looking little cars! And they do seem to offer a lot of content for the price, but you seem to pay for it with so-so fuel economy and a support network that might not be there for the long haul.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    When I hear the name Forenza, the Firenza comes to mind. The rebirth of Oldsmobile? Nahhh, just a Suzuki. Solo Suzuki, champ of Grand Prix! Is the clutch and throttle on the steering wheel ? :blush:

    Really, Suzuki is making some better looking cars these days. It is simply lost amongst the rest however. Too much capacity in the World for car building.

    -Loren
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