Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Forester?

ateixeira

NOBODY.

-juice

leo2633

Amen, brothers!

Len

kyfdx

New tires today.... Nokian WR

205/70-15.. H-rated

I guess I'm stuck with this car for another 50K miles..

garyjones

When will the 2008 RAV4 be released?

What's new?

ateixeira

I doubt they'll do much.

It was new for 06, and on their normal 5 year cycle it would only get a refresh for MY2009.

-juice

orbit9090

I have been considering a CR-V and have been comparing to others. I am frustrated that Honda provides fewer standard features then the competition. Honda expects people to splurge on a moonroof in order to get features standard on the competition.

For example: The Toyota RAV4 base model includes 6 speakers and rear-privacy glass - items not even offered on Honda CR-V LX. Again, I don’t want to pay for a useless moonroof on the CR-V EX just so I can have some “should be standard” items.

Besides the added expense, a moonroof is practically useless to us here in the Midwest, and they also cut down on precious headroom.

I am also disappointed that neither the CR-V LX or EX have a center console. I shouldn't be asked to buy leather (EX-L) just to have a nice place to store my stuff. …makes no sense.

varmint

Honda goes with what they find the majority of buyers are looking to purchase. It does not work for everyone. For example, anyone interested in headrests with whiplash protection can get it standard on the Honda, but not on the Toyota. Meanwhile, the Toyota has options which are not available on the Honda.

Honda goes with this strategy because it allows them to shave costs and keep the assembly line simple (which is good for reliability). Price out a loaded CR-V and a RAV4 with similar equipment and you'll probably find the RAV4 is more expensive. Why? Because it costs Honda less to produce their loaded models.

Again, this won't work for every buyer, but it does work for the majority of Honda's buyers.

lzc

Neither Toyota nor Honda will likely soon adopt as an advertising slogan: "Have it your way." Both car makers often the require the purchase of unwanted options to get wanted ones.

As frustrating as this is, limiting option choices improves manufacturing efficiency and product reliability. Things aren't likely to soon change.

BTW, I didn't want the moonroof either. But I took it and have no regrets about the car. Even with moonroof, the CR-V's headroom is comfortable for my 6'2" frame.

joecarnut

But at least you have a choice of what interior color you like in a RAV4.
And for a small fee you can have decent wheels on a base Rav4 but need to upgrade to an EX on the cr-v to get decent wheels.

RAV4 would be a definite winner in the base models if it didn't have the tailgate door.

smittynyc

I normally couldn't care less about wheels -- I'm a former base Forester owner, for pete's sake -- but the steelies on the base CRV would be a deal-breaker for me. It's almost like Honda had an internal competition to see who could come up with a wheel that least complemented the overall look of the car (which I like very much).

bodble2

Have you seen the wheel covers on the base Fit, or the wheels on the base Pilot? :sick: Honda's definitely making a lot of money getting people to ante up for alloys!

jdwheezer

I actually like the looks of the CRV and Forester over the RAV4. I didn't like the road noise from the CRV. The primary reason I picked the RAV4 over the Forester is Electronic Stability Control, which is not available on the Forester and standard on the '07 RAV4. In addition to 4WD, all the airbags, this car has almost everything I wanted. No compass or Automatic headlight switch. The bluetooth phone connection is great and easy to set-up. The MP3 cd player and AUX connection round out a very nice set of options. The V6 is unbelievably fun to drive.

bodble2

"No compass or Automatic headlight switch"

It does have auto-off headlights, plus Hill-Descent Control, both of which are not available on the CR-V. Plus, I prefer the e-brake setup on the Rav4 compared to the foot e-brake on the CR-V. The Rav4 Sport looks sharp.

jdwheezer

It does have daytime running lights, but I would like auto-on feature at dusk or when entering a dark parking garage. Have not used the hill-descent or 4wd traction control -- yet. Even on the never ending ice we had in Oklahoma the standard 4wd worked great. I only have about 1500 miles, so still kind of breaking it in.

brianjandreau

I recently traded a Forester for an 07 CRV EXL, and I miss the feature that turns the lights off when the vehicle is turned off. When I had my Forester, I left the lights on all the time; I didn't worry about it. Also, the Forester came standard with fog lights, which I want on my CRV but don't want to shell out an additional $400.

bodble2

I commented earlier on about how the CR-V should have auto-off headlights, but I got dumped on for that. There are some here who don't think that's a big deal.

ateixeira

Each model has its own unique little features.

My suggestion is to look to the aftermarket for some of the stuff.

Tint film isn't expensive, I paid $140 and it looks great 9 years later, with no fade as some people predicted.

I bet Honda sells that center console seperately and you could install it yourself.

I find it funny that you mention what Toyota includes on the base model as a pro - they do not include a roof rack or fog lights, for instance. Early models were lacking some basic safety features and owners complained a lot in the RAV4 thread (since addressed, I believe).

I'm shopping for Siennas and Toyota drive me crazy - I can't find VSC for less than around $27k, it's ridiculous. The CE model with pkg 2 simply isn't built, and the LE pkg 3 is priced like diamonds. :mad:

-juice

blueiedgod

I commented earlier on about how the CR-V should have auto-off headlights, but I got dumped on for that. There are some here who don't think that's a big deal.

It is not a big deal to twist the switch on to turn on the lights and twist the switch off to turn off the lights.

Besides, if someone really wanted them, there are plenty aftermarket options for auto "lights off".

Just like someone complained that he didn't want the sunroof to get the 6 speaker stereo and tinted rear windows, I don't want to pay for the silly auto lights off. I can turn them on and off myself, thank you.

6 speakers can be added to the LX if one wanted to. The parts counter guy would gladly sell the tweeter package. One can even install Honda subwoofer to make it a 7 speaker package.

Rear windows can be tinted at home for less than $20, or have someone do it for $200.

phelps2

I couldn't agree more about Toyota's approach to packages. When we bought a Sienna a couple of years ago (we needed it then and it was before the new Odyssey's came out) the only region that seemed to stock a CE with the stability control and airbags package was the Southeast - not the snow belt where you would think it was more critical. I would rather work with a decent Honda dealer any day - the models are clear, there's no fussing with obscure and unavailable packages, no undesired add-ons. As someone who buys at the low end of the model line, I'll avoid Toyota to the extent I can.

Okay, rant over.

Phelps

varmint

"Early models were lacking some basic safety features and owners complained a lot in the RAV4 thread (since addressed, I believe)."

I think it was side air bags. You could only get them for the rear if you opted for a V6 mdoel, or something like that.

What bugs me are the mystery trims. The web sites and brochures say you can get model X with features Y and Z, but good luck finding them on a dealer's lot. Some dealers won't even order them.

No free lunch anywhere.

ateixeira

Yep, and to be fair, I'll complain that Honda links a cool idea like VCM to higher priced trims (EX-L and higher only).

Odd, because the cheapest Pilot (LX 2WD) has it.

Bottom line? Both are basically trying to get you to spend more.

-juice

PS Subaru is no different - they do offer stability control on the Forester (someone above said they didn't) but you gotta get the Sports model

bodble2

"It is not a big deal to twist the switch on to turn on the lights and twist the switch off to turn off the lights."

It is more than just turning your lights off for you -- although to me that's pretty darn handy too. It also helps light your path after you exit the car, or light your way back to the car, if you're parked in a dark area (ie. alley, underground parkade, etc). I can also crank my windows up and down by myself, but I don't hear too many people who think power windows are useless.

stevedebi

"Yep, and to be fair, I'll complain that Honda links a cool idea like VCM to higher priced trims (EX-L and higher only). "

Juice, if you are talking about VSA (vehicle stability assist), it is standard equipment on all CR-V trim levels.

Safety Specs for 2007 CR-V

ateixeira

Variable Cylinder Mangement, basically their name for cylinder deactivation.

The way Honda sells it on the Odyssey only rich people that can afford the extra gas can get the feature they sort of don't really need in the first place.

Basically you have to get leather (EX-L and above) to get the model rated 20/28 mpg.

Poor? Tough. 19/25 mpg. :P

-juice

stevedebi

Juice-
Oh, you are talking about other Honda models. I thought you were talking about the CR-V. I got fooled by the title ("safety").

Hmmm, deactivate 1/2 of the cylinders of a CR-V and get maybe 35 MPG and 25 seconds from zero to sixty? :P

ateixeira

Yeah, I'm just frustrated by the way manufacturers tend to package things nowadays.

-juice

p0926

I agree. While I like the fact that the Forester's headlights turn off automatically when the key is removed, full auto on/off is certainly better. They turn themselves on when it gets dark and off when it's light plus they stay on after you exit the car in the dark.

Another handy feature that I've only seen on GM cars (GASP) is the radio staying on after you turn the engine off until you open the driver's door. Sure it's only a minor feature but it shouldn't cost more than a few cents to include and is a nice touch.

-Frank

bodble2

"..the radio staying on..."

Yeah, that's a handy feature. Strangely enough, quite of few of the econo-grade American cars have features like this one, and auto headlights. :confuse:

snoopy21

i typically don't like auto features and the power locks on the '07 CR-V are no different. the CR-V locks all the doors automatically once you get to 5mph or so and it unlocks the driver's door once you turn off the engine. unfortunately, this leads the driver to think that all the other doors are unlocked too. two months with my new CR-V and i'm still forgetting to unlock the doors for everyone else to get out. i know honda doesn't do this with their accords so i'm guessing this is one of those SUV conventions since they're more prone to rollovers.

i also don't like how the doors will automatically lock themselves again after awhile if you don't open a door...grrr :mad:

ateixeira

Generally, I don't like it when they try to "think" for you.

I dislike automatic locks because I already have the rear doors child-protected, so they can't open the door regardless.

-juice

brianjandreau

I agree about the door locks, but this feature can be turned off. Look in your owner's manual.

Does anyone know how to turn the seatbelt alarm off? I have a dog who sits in the front passangers seat and won't tolerate a seatbelt around him. The sensor keeps beeping if I don't attach the seatbelt from behind the seat.

bodble2

You may also be able to program it to unlock all the doors when you turn off the engine.

brianjandreau

One can. It's in the manual!

snoopy21

cool! thanks for the heads up! i was planning on curling up with the manual this weekend :surprise: but now i definitely will.

stevedebi

"Another handy feature that I've only seen on GM cars (GASP) is the radio staying on after you turn the engine off until you open the driver's door. Sure it's only a minor feature but it shouldn't cost more than a few cents to include and is a nice touch. "

FWIW, my Ford Freestyle has this feature; the electrical equipment is active for 10 minutes after the engine is turned off.

drive62

Honda still sells it's vehicles like all import brands used to, you want X (e.g. moonroof, alloy wheels, CD changer) you move up in trim line. No options (although dealers have always been free to add certain things) available. It's a vestige from when they shipped 'em over. Toyota (like -juice found) has adopted the domestic way of equipping vehicles, options and more options.

I like the way Honda does it. Yes I may have to move up in trim to get a desired feature, but that is to be expected.

ateixeira

You can turn the seat belt alarm off on some Subarus with a long, bizarre procedure of clicking and unclicking the seat belts.

That's what these forums are for, little tips like that.

-juice

snoopy21

That's what these forums are for, little tips like that.

amen to that! well, i changed the settings for my power locks last night...works like a charm. thanks to everyone here for the "little tip". the fords i used to drive used to have the auto locks and i know those weren't configurable so i just kind of figured the CR-V's weren't either. *phew!*

ateixeira

Here's a Subaru secret hand-shake:

The hood release for every model is located directly beneath the right-most stare in the Plieades logo.

Works for every Subaru I've ever touched.

-juice

p0926

Ooh yeah, I hate auto locking doors!!!! :mad: In fact, I think that would be a deal killer when considering a new vehicle. But if they're programable and you could disable that feature then I guess it would be okay.

-Frank

bodble2

As long as you can program them to unlock when you park, or turn off engine, I don't see the problem with auto-locking doors. They are there for safety reasons. I can't think of a reason why someone would need the doors to be unlocked when the car is moving anyway.

p0926

I can't think of a reason why someone would need the doors to be unlocked when the car is moving anyway.

Okay, I head down the road only to discover that the driver's door isn't fully shut. At the next light I quickly open and close the door. With auto locks I would first have to unlock the door (or shift into park).

However in general, I suppose I'm okay with the doors being locked when moving and with an auto trans you should be able to program them to unlock when the car is put into to park. BUT... for those of us who prefer manual transmissions, the only option would be for them to unlock when the engine is turned off; which is totally unacceptable in my book.

-Frank

kyfdx

If you had a BMW, you'd just pull on the door handle twice... the first pull unlocks, and the second pull opens the door...

p0926

Actually some models (non-BMW) will automatically unlock the door on the first pull of the handle :P However, many times the passengers in the back seat are trapped by the locks. But my biggest peeve... I exit normally via the driver's door and go to get whatever from the seat on the passenger side and the door is LOCKED!!! You'd think I'd learn but my primary ride is the Forester which is blissfully absent auto door locks.

-Frank

stevedebi

"If you had a BMW, you'd just pull on the door handle twice... the first pull unlocks, and the second pull opens the door... "

Or if you had a Ford Freestyle, you could just pull the handle (on the front doors), and the door would open, bypassing the locks.

BTW, the FS can also modify the auto door locks via a complicated sequence of steps listed in the manual.

ateixeira

My '81 Mustang was like that, too. So basically the locks only work from the outside.

-juice

snoopy21

if i recall correctly, mercedes--starting with the M-class SUV--installed a system where it would automatically lock the doors and roll up the windows if it senses an impending rollover.

anyway, the auto locks in the CR-V are pretty flexible as you can configure the locking and unlocking behavior separately and each one can be either turned off entirely, drivers door only or all doors at once, and tied to the transmission being put into or out of 'park' OR to the ignition key position.

now, speaking of fords (and mazdas and a few other cars), what is the purpose of the little button near the ignition key? to turn off the ignition, you need to turn the key a little bit, then press the little button before you can finish turning it all the way off in order to remove the key. i HATE that :P

jdwheezer

"PS Subaru is no different - they do offer stability control on the Forester (someone above said they didn't) but you gotta get the Sports model"

I cant find the electronic stability control feature anywhere for the Forester, even Sports model. They have Electronic brake-force distribution" but that, I believe, is very different.

smittynyc

It's available on the Forester 2.5 XT Limited and Sports XT. Subaru's proprietary name for stability control is VDC (Vehicle Dynamics Control).

ateixeira

Oddly enough, Nissan also uses the "VDC" name (G35x). In fact I wonder if they share suppliers for some of the powertrain hardware.

-juice