Stories from the Sales Frontlines

graphicguy

fush...I got conflicting news accounts on the Volt. Couple of days ago, I heard it was delayed. Heard the news yesterday that GM was wanting to put the Volt into the hands of the internal GM people and have them drive around in it.

No matter. It doesn't sound like development is finished on it yet. And, that they want to do more testing (at least with internal GM folks).

I have yet to hear a dropdead delivery date on it, though.

grandtotal

The CEO even said "would a billion dollars get the car out this summer" and the design team said no, it wasn't about money.

Now that would be a rare event. The engineering folks overruling the marketing folks.

fezo

Ain't that the truth?

I am still of the I'll believe it when I see it school of thought on the Volt and still can't imagine buying one for the price they have been talking even with the tax credit but GM is on something of a roll here (I never thought I'd say THAT again!). I'd love for them to prove me wrong on the Volt.

isellhondas

Sorry to hear about your dog. It's tough.

We have been there twice with two dogs and just recently with a much loved cat of all things.

She will let you know when it's time.

sterlingdog

I'm so sorry about your dog. As I had mentioned a few months ago, we also lost our 12 year old Lab to cancer in October. They gave Sterling four months, but we had to put him down after two months. He was so sick and I could tell that he was really suffering. It just about killed me to tell the vet to do it. I'm not ashamed to tell you that I cried on and off for a week. I know how hard it is but don't wait too long. I know that you want the best for her.

My wife now wants another dog. I'm just not ready. After five months, the pain is still there. I'll be thinking about you. My prayers are with you.

Richard

houdini1

Well suffice it to say that there is plenty of empathy and understanding for you and your family among the rest of us here. We've all been there.

Remember that your friend is depending on you to do what is best for him, just as you always have.

fezo

Just a note on how long before you have another dog.

When the dog I brought into the marriage died at 14 (spent half her life keeping me company and half with us as a couple including the last maybe two years with a baby) my wife did not want to deal with a dog right away. Right away ended up being close to seven years. I'll not let that happen again.

We now have a second dog which in and of itself probably wasn't the right idea - but only because the second dog is bigger than we'd been planning but earlier mentioned baby came by with him at 17 and the next thing you know..... I hope it won't be as difficult to keep the pet population relatively constant.

Not as big a problem on the cat front. The incumbent cat will not allow another cat in the house.

We have a couple of mice that daughter number 2 keeps. The tough thing with them is by the time you get the personality down and really start liking one it's already declining. They only live like a year and a half.

boomchek

We had those on the Grand Cherokee Diesels last year if you can believe it. Actually it was $12-$13k I think but it was massive!!!!

fezo

Can you even sell those in the US? There isn't much diesel at all in these parts. I'd actually like something like that.

fushigi

From my understanding the Volt hardware is done barring any discoveries made during testing; they may still tweak the control software. For some people it's proving a little disconcerting when the ICE starts up (to maintain battery state of charge) and revs as ICE operation is decoupled from current driving patterns. IOW it might happen at any time and not just when you hit the gas, er, accelerator. That is how the Voltec system works but is just something fundamentally new compared to how consumers expect cars to behave.

Volume manufacturing is still scheduled to begin late September/early October with the first finished vehicles to be ready for consumers in mid-November. That's been the planned ship-date for a long time now and GM has done well to stick by it. That said, like some new cars it is getting a phased rollout and will only be in a handful of markets initially, namely DC (figures!), California, and a few other places. I live in Chicagoland so it may be another year or two before I start seeing them on the road.

boomchek

No, they only had them in Canada for about 18 months. They sold like hotcakes and that's all we ordered - diesels. They acutally had the same diesel out of Mercedes ML. So it was a great value as it was priced about $25k less than a comparable ML.

grandtotal

From my understanding the Volt hardware is done barring any discoveries made during testing; they may still tweak the control software. For some people it's proving a little disconcerting when the ICE starts up (to maintain battery state of charge) and revs as ICE operation is decoupled from current driving patterns. IOW it might happen at any time and not just when you hit the gas, er, accelerator.

They will be tweaking the control software after the first Volts hit the street too.

I realise that the engine starting is a very different proposition from the engine in a Prius, for example, starting. In the Volt it will happen very rarely and it will also start, I imagine, at quite a wide throttle setting.

Just in case you (or anybody else) should construe my posts as negative, I have a suggestion for the folks at GM. I have no idea whether they have already considered and implemented it or not, but for what it's worth, here it is.

Since the control software knows when it is about to start the engine have it cause a light to light or a beeper to beep to warn the driver ahead of time. Something along the lines of a low gas warning light/beeper.

driver100

Can you even sell those in the US? There isn't much diesel at all in these parts.

I read a review of a road trip from Canada to Florida in a Jeep Diesel. Great trip, good mileage, some trouble finding diesel fueling stations. It can be done, but is it worth the trouble?

driver100

I just heard on the radio many of the Toyotas that have been repaired have been acting up. Sales of Toyota fell in the U.S. in February, but they had a nice increase in Canada. If the fixed ones are acting up, it won't look too good.

RE: The Volt. I sure wouldn't want to buy one of the first models. That would be pretty risky. I can see lots of problems there :lemon:

houdini1

I read a review of a road trip from Canada to Florida in a Jeep Diesel. Great trip, good mileage, some trouble finding diesel fueling stations. It can be done, but is it worth the trouble?

You are kidding, right? Where do all those big diesel rigs get their diesel? They also seem to think it is worth the trouble as I don't see many big gasoline rigs.

jayrider

Those big diesels have a ton of torque to get the big rigs rolling and the engines last longer.

fezo

I can't believe it would be difficult to find diesel fule if you were half trying. The problem here isn't finding the fuel - it's finding cars that run on it.

nyccarguy

I feel your dog pain brother! Take it easy!

driver100

Where do all those big diesel rigs get their diesel?

I am not sure, but I think they hold so much fuel (of course they burn it pretty fast too) that they can go extra long distances....and the savings are substantial in a large truck. But, for someone who doesn't make a long trip too frequently, and doesn't know where all the right tdiesel stations are, they could run into a problem. Nor sure, just guessing.
Sounds good though........

roadburner

I appreciate all the kind words and thoughts. Right now she's acting like she feels great so we'll just concentrate on enjoying the good times.

cdn_tch

I read this quite a few years ago so my memory may be fuzzy...

A magazine compared a gas and a diesel pickup as towing vehicles for horse trailers. The part I found interesting was that observed mileage when towing the gas truck was in the 10-12 mpg, the diesel was around 18, but when not towing, both trucks were in the 20 mpg range.

houdini1

I remember several years ago, the vet told us our cat, Junior, had feline leukemia and had to be put down or he would suffer horribly. Junior had been going downhill fast so we agreed this would be the best for him. He was about 8 years old and a wonderful guy.

He spent one last night at the vet clinic and I went by the next day to sign the papers and pay for the procedure. Then I told the vet, a lady, that I wanted to say my good byes to Junior. She was rather cold and said that wasn't really a good idea but I insisted.

I was surprised to see Junior on his feet and looking better, not great, but better. I decided to take him home and see how he did over the next couple of days. The vet tried her best to talk me out of it and even got all huffy and irate with me.

Long story short, Junior recovered completely and lived another 9 years !! I only went back to that vet one other time to let her know that our cat had recovered. She could have cared less, never admitted she was wrong, and just sort of blew me off.

So mistakes and miracles do happen !!

snakeweasel

some trouble finding diesel fueling stations

What no truck stops?

Around here there are quite a few gas stations that sell diesel.

driver100

Around here there are quite a few gas stations that sell diesel.

It's quite a few, but still not as convenient as gas. With half the number of stations available, it could be a problem on a long trip.

. Nearly half (42 percent) of all retail site in the U.S. today offer diesel fuel.
Diesel Fuel

rlsonline

You know, from the tales that I'm hearing around here, Ethanol will be taking both Gasoline and Diesel fuels over. . .Cars will be cleaner, less emmissions everywhere. . .We'll see if it actually happens though. . .

rlsonline

Yes, Mine included! I had my 2009 Toyota Corolla serviced for both recalls and a week later the whole ignition system started shaking. I had to go back . . . again . . . and get it all replaced a 2nd time.

lrguy44

Ethanol is a boondoggle. It takes beaucoup oil to produce it and although it cost less per gallon cars get fewer MPG than on gas. Long term, hydrogen is the solution.

isellhondas

Ah...how can an ignition system "shake"?

Just curious.

grandtotal

Long term, hydrogen is the solution.

Nope, hydrogen is not the solution. Too many problems. How are you going to distribute it, how are you going to make it safe enough (though I admit that is not a major problem) but mostly where are you going to get it from?

jimbres

Ethanol is a boondoggle. It takes beaucoup oil to produce it and although it cost less per gallon cars get fewer MPG than on gas.

You're absolutely right about this. Take away the subsidy, & ethanol would disappear.

boomchek

Wow great story, bad vet!

lrguy44

My guess is technology will advance to small effecient hydrogen generators that will be in the cars.

imidazol97

>small effecient hydrogen generators that will be in the cars

I suspect we'll have flying cars and individual jetpacks, which I heard mentioned as available now from a company, before we see hydrogen in general use.

A flying car company has been fishing around the depressed area here for financial help (free money) to help get their startup going.

lrguy44

Much of course will be dependent on the oil lobby blocking research, but the technology has been in progress for years. From what I have read it is 10-20 years away. Jet packs date back to my youth in the 60's. Jet packs are used on space walks all the time.

oregonboy

Jet packs work sooo much better when you don't have that pesky gravity to deal with. Earth-bound jet packs have severely limited range due to fuel load constraints.

houdini1

60's? Anyone still remember "Rocket Man" from the Saturday movie serials back in the 50's?

mac24

Ethanol will be taking both Gasoline and Diesel fuels over. . .Cars will be cleaner, less emmissions everywhere.

Ethanol is a gasoline additive, and a poor one at that, not an alternative fuel.
The only ones that benefit from it are the ethanol manufacturers and the farmers that sell to them.

mac24

Nearly half (42 percent) of all retail site in the U.S. today offer diesel fuel.

I suspect it's higher than that by now. A few years ago it was rare to find diesel in a regular gas station.
However, it seems that everytime they get get refurbished, diesel gets added to the choice at the pump.
Over the last few years here in Out in the Sticks, FL., availability has gone from maybe 5% to 100% of even the small independant stations.

dino001

Ethanol is a terrible fuel. It is corrosive so it requires special tanks and lines. It definitely is not cleaner in terms of overall environmental impact (you need more energy to create ethanol fuel than to extract fuel from fossil sources). Even if we used 100% of our crop area for fuel rather than food supply, we would probably be able to replace less than 20% of our fuel needs.

Ethanol mandates increased global famine, as fuel needs competed with food supply and those most vulnerable paid highest price. The idiocy and ultimate immorality of ethanol push (especially US-variety, i.e. corn-based) gets me really worked up. Thanks to those good people in Iowa primaries, several milions of people in the world did not to get their meal today, my car's throttle system is subjected to unnecessary corrosive agent, some trully revolutionary new energy source in the making is being thwarted as we speak (write, read).

tifighter

Did someone mention jet packs today?

snakeweasel

I really don't see it as much of a problem since there are so many gas stations. If half the gas stations suddenly disaapeard there would still be plenty of places to buy gas. On my 11.5 mile commute to work I pass at least a hal dozen stations and go close by about a half dozen more.

On long trips diesel should be easy to get as trucks make those long trips all the time.

snakeweasel

You know, from the tales that I'm hearing around here, Ethanol will be taking both Gasoline and Diesel fuels over.

The question then becomes where do we get the stuff to make ethanol? We need a new source of ethonal or really really efficient cars.

snakeweasel

The problem is where are you going to get the hydrogen?

tidester

Hydrogen is very abundant. The oceans are full of it. All you have to do is pluck the two hydrogen atoms off a water molecule. The problem is that it takes more energy to do that than you can possibly recover by subsequently burning the hydrogen in your car's engine.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

boomchek

Great post Dino, long time no see.

Some people who want electric vehicles also fail to realize that electricity has to be produced somewhere too. Mostly in coal burning factories that create a ton of pollution.

As for E85 I have yet to see one gas station here in Vancouver that sold the fuel. There are some that have ethanol added in to normal fuel but none that sell the actual E85.

snakeweasel

Yeah I know its abundant but not in a usable form. Until there is a way to break the bond between hydrogen and oxygen cheaply and efficiently hydrogen will be just a novelty.

lrguy44

That is what they call research which is going on as we write.

snakeweasel

The problem is that you cannot repeal the laws of physics. No matter how far we advance in technology there will always be a net energy loss with hydrogen. Than means it will always take more energy to break apart that bond than we can get from the hydrogen. Don't expect hydrogen cars in mass for a long time.

fushigi

My guess is technology will advance to small effecient hydrogen generators that will be in the cars.

Since the hydrogen generator will need a power source of it's own, it would still be more efficient to bypass the hydrogen part and simply use the power source to propel the vehicle.

lrguy44

I do not expect them in mass for a long time but Honda, BMW, Hyundai, MB and others see the potential and have built cars.
lHydrogen Automobiles