Stories from the Sales Frontlines

1109310941096109810992003

Comments

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    image
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Lol, love it !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    That is cute! - If not so pathetic it would be even funnier!

    I sent you a Myspace invite...to get the pix we missed. I forgot I had to send an invite first. Send asap.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Got it! Thanks for the picture. My buddies in the book biz should like that one!

    Maybe that's what we should call our warehouse location.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Oh, great idea! Business will boom....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    I always liked "the older I get the better I was." Something to do with creative memory.....

    In my case, it takes me all night to do what I used to do all night... :cry:

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Doesn't that just make you want to jump into your car and race right down there? Very generous discount.

    That $75 discount turned her off even more…and remember, “she is a valued customer”. If she weren’t, maybe they would have upped the price. According to her it was like, ‘we sell the best car so what’s your problem lady. Come and get it.’ This is the typical Honda culture you’ll see here in the Burgh area. Their sales are nothing like they used to be and national sales pretty much say the same thing. I wonder why?

    Update…the Altima store almost blew the sale when the sales manager called. It went like this as best as I can remember the way she told it.

    SM: Hi Betty I’m the sales manager at ABC Nissan. I wanted to know when you’d like to come in to pick up that sharp Altima you were talking to Bob about.

    I told her to wait a little bit before she jumped at their last offer because there was a good chance that the Altima store would call to sweeten the deal. So now she’s prepared.

    Betty: Oh, I like the car alright but the other dealers have called and given me a better price than when I talked to Bob (this is true both the Hyundai and Honda stores called), so what is your offer now?

    SM: I know we are lower than the Accord (true statement) and our car is better than the Sonata so you can’t compare us with them (reliability wise she’s not convinced of that but she just likes the Altima more). We feel the price we gave you is the best you’ll find in the Pittsburgh area so we’ll just hold to that price.

    Betty: OK then, I’ll have to consider all my options given the latest prices I’ve received.

    25 minutes later Bob calls.

    Bob: Hi Betty, I’m calling to tell you that our store policy is to not give a better price over the phone but I know we can better the price if you come in. (I got this same comment before I bought my first Hyundai in 2005 after I got an internet price to start things rolling. So I went in to hear what they would offer in person and I told her to be prepared for this type of response).

    Having gotten the great Honda discount, the discussion continues.

    Betty: I don’t want to waste my time coming in to get $75 off from you original price.

    She heard Bob chuckle then:

    Bob: Betty, we’re not going to play games with you. We want to sell you a car. Please come in and we’ll do much better than $75.

    Now why didn’t the sales manager say that? I have to wonder if the salesman talked to the sales manager (maybe a little arm twisting) so he wouldn’t lose the sale altogether.

    I told Betty to wait for another call unless she just had to have the color that she saw at the dealership when she was there. However, it didn’t sound like she wanted to chance losing that car. So, I’m thinking she’s going to go in pretty quickly to get her beauty. If they save here another $150/175 she’ll have her Altima in the garage any hour now.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Seems according to the government, most of those Toyota acceleration problems were caused by drivers. Government can't find a car that accelerates on it's own. Some kind of mob psychology at work...when people hear about the problem, they think it is happening to them.

    The Transportation Department however, "found that throttles were wide open and brakes not engaged on Toyotas involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration," the report said, citing unnamed sources.

    Transportation Dept

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    If they save here another $150/175 she’ll have her Altima in the garage any hour now

    Smart! Unless something goes terribly wrong, she should be able to get at least another $150/$175 off. She could use my trick that worked for me;

    I'll buy the car, but I want $100 off the final price of the new car, and $100 more for my trade in.

    That way it doesn't sound like as much money. When I did it I wanted $1000 more off the X3 which was discounted $3000 and an additional $1000 on my 2000 Jeep that they evaluated at $10,000. The salesman agreed over the phone, so I was skeptical until when I went in the next day. But, they kept their word, no hassle.

    Note to Hosts: I think JM should get a gold star for a story right on topic and that was nicely told.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    : I don’t want to waste my time coming in to get $75 off from you original price.

    I am writing this reply on it's own because I had a separate thought about the car buying dance.

    We bought some warehouse shelves from a guy who was going out of business. His price was high. But, I know how he operates....he prefers to give me a high price and then I have to come back with a lower price. Then we find an agreed upon price somewhere in the middle. I think a lot of salespeople think if they give you their price right up front...then the customer will walk away thinking they paid too much. However, if the price gets discounted then the customer feels they got a better price, and won't have second thoughts about paying too much.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    To put things in perspective, though that $75 enticement from the dealer seems ludicrious, my guess is that the sales rep was forced to do that by management to keep the dialogue going. The newbees are under a lot of pressure. I bet isell would like a dollar for every grinder he dealt with trying to squeeze $75 off a well discounted price. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    After reading this post I realized (again) why I left the business!
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Craig, just the man I need to hear from.
    I'm considering a Honda Ridgeline.
    I decided on the 2011 RTS model that has a TMV of $29,484 (MSRP $32,265).
    If I walk in with the TMV report, can I expect the price to be at TMV?
    I don't need financing, but I may be trading the Avalon with all of 6,000 miles.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    mako--- I love the 2011 avalon --- the seats and cabin are great. Won't test drive oe til next year at buy time. Why the trade ?--- need hauling I guess.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    I just like having a variety of vehicles. The Avalon I may trade is a 2010. We have 4 vehicles, but when wifey and I go anywhere she always suggests we take the van (2002 GMC Safari AWD) as she's still a little shy of the Toyota from the runaway news from 6 months ago. I'm getting tired of looking at the Avalon sitting in the garage and not being used.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, for the life of me, I was never able to figure out how the "TMV" values are arrived at and nobody will give me an answer that makes sense.

    Dealers would never disclose what they sell cars for and, if asked, I doubt the buyers would either. I know I sure wouldn't.

    And, there are trades involved etc which can twist the numbers up.

    In a lot of cases I found the TMV numbers to be doable or even beatable but other times they were impossible to meet.

    That said, I have no idea now what the dealers pay for Ridgelines but I will say they are NOT fast sellers. As a result, I'm sure they would be willing to work a skinny deal for you to move one.

    Your Avalon may pose a much bigger problem.

    Like Ridgelines, Avalons aren't very good sellers. Both as new and used cars, even though they are great cars, they appeal to few people.

    Since it is so new and with so few miles, it will be competing with brand new ones that have low finance rates right now. In order for your Avalon to sell quickly, prospective buyers will expect a huge discount. Make sense?

    Even if you try to sell your Avalon yourself you are going to run into this and depending on the state you live in, you may miss out on what would be a huge sales tax credit.

    I have to assume you don't like your Avalon?

    If this is the case, and you can afford it, you may just want to take the hit and move on.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    as she's still a little shy of the Toyota from the runaway news from 6 months ago

    It seems the runaway Toyota's were a figment of creative imaginations. Once someone thinks it happens others start imagining it. The government has tested them and can't find any with runaway acceleration. It's like flying saucers, once someone spots one, lots of people see them. It happened with Audi's...faulty brakes? It happened with pitted windshields once. People started reporting mysterious cases of pitted windshields. It was just that when a few cases were reported people believed that the regular scratches and marks were caused by a mysterious source.

    Your Avalon is fine...probably one of the safest cars around.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    After reading this post I realized (again) why I left the business!

    Just consider that post as my way of keeping you happy with your retirement decision. :)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Found your comment interesting re the Avalon. You would think 09-10 low mileage used ones would be priced low but they aren't. There are hundreds and hundreds of them listed on web sites --- almost all priced within a few grand of new 2011's. How big will the inventories have to be before they get real. If the market is small but the prices are out of line these cars will be sitting on the lots for years. Some will pay the price but not near enough to significantly reduce inventory. Did they all pay too much for them to start? Doesn't make sense.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Sticker price is a classic "what if" mentality. Most of people say "I like the car, but your price is too high" and they get "Oh, we can work on that one". Plus, they can later say I"I got X grand off".

    However, what if a whale (or baby seal) walks in? If you put too low sticker price, you will never be able to get your next Hawaii vacation from one deal. It is classic "jackpot" mentality. They only can count what they see, i.e. possible killer profit. They can't see how many people walked away not even bothering to ask about that Avalon, just because the price was too funny, too insulting, or simply they didn't know how "unreal" it really was.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    No matter how low you price the car, 95% of the shoppers will tell you it's too high.

    Even when we made a couple of serious pricig errors, people still offered less.
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Thank you, for the direct answer, Craig. Sounds like TMV is more of a direct buy price when no trade is involved.

    I like the Avalon. It's still "like new" and has given me zero problems. Actually the last time I drove it was a 92 degree day. I tried out the A/C seats. Excellent option. Great car if you like driving alone. Even my best friend volunteers to drive rather than ride in it. The mainstream news ruined a really good car.

    As far as selling myself goes, not my thing. Besides, I just hit the big 6-0 and have about as much patience with young buyers as our award winning retired salesman.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    So what you are saying is that 5-6 overpriced cars on the lot is a calculated strategy to yield one jackpot.I can see that. Does that mean a serious qualified buyer has a chance for a "realistic price" whatever that may be? I'm being specific toward Avalons based on isells comment re limited interest -- new or used but especially used. I'm not buying used unless it is at least 20% less than the new buy price not new msrp. Probably get chased out of the showroom with an offer like that even if I was ready to buy on New Years Eve. ;)
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    You would think 09-10 low mileage used ones would be priced low but they aren't.

    What is low? Mine is a 2010 Avalon Limited with 6,000 miles that cost $35k. I have no idea what I will get for it. I'm thinking around 28k Anything less and I'll just keep it and trade something else in. Maybe replace the van and the Camaro with the Ridgeline and be down to 3 vehicles. How do you trade in 2 for 1? I have no idea.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    The 28k you want isn't wholesale but fair retail on a dealers lot. If I was in the market I'd be on my way to take it off your hands- will deal at $27999 because I know where the car has been. You might get 24-25k from a dealer [maybe not even that] and see it on the lot for $33999. Just a guess.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    The 28k you want isn't wholesale but fair retail on a dealers lot. If I was in the market I'd be on my way to take it off your hands- will deal at $27999

    Nobody wants to pay full retail asking price. Mako wants a very reasonable $28k and you offer him a buck less. No wonder isell is tired of selling cars!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Right. He should have offered him $75 less. ;)
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    How do you trade in 2 for 1? I have no idea.

    I have never done it either but I can’t imagine why a dealer wouldn’t do that to make a sale. As for the buyer why is there any difference between one, two or a dozen. You don’t sell until you get what the market dictates. The dealer does that with the car he’s selling and the buyer has to look at it the same way.

    Some people might think there is too much to be buried in the deal when you trade but keep it simple. It’s the delta dollars that you’re after given that you get what your trade is worth (obviously you can't trade in 4 cars just to bring the out of pocket dollars in line with your budget).

    I’ve said it before, when I bought the Genny I gave the dealer his price because it was a good price but I got $600 more for my trade because that is what it was worth.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited July 2010
    I had figured that your wife had gotten over the fear factor. Guess not.

    It's a great car but it may be time to take your lumps and move on.

    One thing you might want to do is take it to a couple of Toyota Dealers. Tell them you want a "buy bid" and have them write that number on a business card.

    You can show that to the Honda store and they might just let the Toyota store have the car. That way, you'll still get your sales tax credit.

    And, I could be wrong? It may be a car they really need!
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    ok, driver, you called me out. IF I was in the market, I'd go full asking price of 28k. Game-set-match.
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Don't know if it matters to you or not, but I read that 2011 is the last year for the Ridgeline. Some people don't care; others do.

    Richard
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Years ago, I did a 2 for 1 trade. I traded a '79 Skylark and an '81 Aries for a new 1986 Blazer. We had no internet then. I got wholesale and dealer prices on the trades from my bank. Back then, they didn't have incentives and such on the new Blazers. In fact, the Blazer was a very popular SUV. Mine was white with a red pin stripe and red interior. At any rate, the dealer gave me $500 off sticker (IIRC) and we hit some where between wholesale and dealer price on the two trades. The deal was actually one of the easiest that I ever did. They knew that I was coming in with both trades, and I had test driven the Blazer one day after school. It was a very small dealership in a small town close to where we lived---family owned with nice folks. We took the trades in on a Saturday morning around 9 AM. I was gone with my new Blazer by 11 AM.

    A local farmer bought the Aries; a church secretary bought the Skylark. The Aries was in fine shape. The Skylark had lots of problems---mechanical in nature. We never liked the car. I loved my new Blazer, but other people didn't. They kept running into it. Once, a lady ran a stop sign and just about killed me. Thank heavens for the seatbelt. Second time, a man crashed into it on the third deck of a parking garage at the airport. We were not in it. Third time, one of my students rear ended me leaving the school parking lot. He was kissing his girl friend. I was watching them in the rear view mirror. I finally gave up. That was when I bought the 1989 Town Car---the love of my life.

    Richard
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Right. He should have offered him $75 less.

    LOL, that made my day!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    edited July 2010
    IF I was in the market, I'd go full asking price of 28k

    That's better. Don't mess around for a whimpy $1 off MSRP.

    If you offer $27,999 he'll come back at $27,999.75! At least it will make for an exciting sales story and the hosts will be happy.

    Then you'll have to come back again, so just pay the $28,000 and save your time and energy. Maybe he'll even buy you a coffee for being such a nice customer.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,696
    >Right. He should have offered him $75 less.

    A local irritating commercial Honda (Ford, Hyundai, Yugo) dealer guy makes advertisements where he says we always beat the other guy by "3 to 500 dollars."

    I always wonder if people fall for that "3" and think he means $300!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    I'll give you the numbers on my Ridgeline.

    Dec 2005, 2006 model, new RTL (top of line model, but no Nav or Sunroof).

    MSRP - $32,005
    Price Paid - $27,659. (Oklahoma - this is without taxes, tag, etc. Owner pays for these himself when he registers the vehicle.)

    I think this was about $1,200 UNDER invoice.of $28,883.

    Go low. I think Honda subsidizes the Ridgeline most of the time.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    News to me b ut I wouldn't be surprised.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    That is probably very true. I'm not surprised you'll have people offering less for underpriced cars. If all people know is "stickers are too high", they'll stick to $X off strategy no matter what - especially if they're not Edmunds readers and have no idea what the approximate costs and "reasonable" markups are.

    It is a chicken and egg problem. Do sticker prices are too high because people expect large discounts, or do people expect discounts because asking prices are too high. I believe it is the latter for reasons already stated. But I'm sure there will always be people who think everything should be free and they got screwed no matter how low the price is.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    Do sticker prices are too high because people expect large discounts,

    If you go in to buy a car, let us say a new Ridgeline, and you would be happy to pay $28000 for a $32,000 vehicle, and you said to the salesman, I would be willing to pay $27000 for this Ridgeline. And the salesman said, we like to treat every one as faily as possible, there is a special on the Ridgeline and we can sell it to you for $26,000.

    You would think, 1) there must be something wrong with those trucks, 2) I must have offered way too much, I probably could have got it for $25,000.

    I think the dealer makes you work for every penny you get off, just so that won't happen. In other words, maybe a dealer just can't give you the best price right off the mark, it just doesn't work in the real world.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Driver, consider the data they're using is coming from the car's data collectors. Those are fed by the various control systems in the car. That's especially true for drive-by-wire vehicles where there are fewer or no direct mechanical interfaces between driver & the vehicle controls.

    It's been my contention since day one that this is a software bug. Some odd rare circumstance glitches the system into thinking that WOT has been requested and that there's no brake signal. If the software glitch occurs, WOT is performed by the ECU without user/driver intervention. That the glitch fails to properly recognize the brake signal means that the trans doesn't disengage like it should when brake & gas are hit simultaneously. The data recorders see the output post-glitch & record the (false) WOT condition as well as the (possibly false) no braking condition.

    Garbage in, garbage out.

    There's precedent for this. As I've said before, I had a late '80s Mercury Topaz that had sudden unintended acceleration problems. F/L/M came out with a fix. It wasn't related to the floor mats. Shortening of the gas pedal wasn't mentioned either. A replacement ECU was the cure.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    is coming from the car's data collectors. Those are fed by the various control systems in the car

    I have heard that from experts too. Could be communications towers sending out signals and the Toyota is just at a certain point and a message from a tower mixes up the computer in the car.

    I still think that is possible. Although, mass hysteria is possible too! People start imagining it is happening to them.

    My father go out of his about a 1978 Cougar and it went in reverse and almost hit a gas tank. We thought he left it in reverse when he got out and was making the story up...that the car went into reverse. Eventually Ford admitted it could happen, I believe slamming the door made the gear shift leaver jump into reverse.

    Who knows for sure?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Could be communications towers sending out signals and the Toyota is just at a certain point and a message from a tower mixes up the computer in the car.

    I still think that is possible.


    NO !! that ain’t possible and you gotta go see somebody if you really believe that. :confuse:

    Although, mass hysteria is possible too! People start imagining it is happening to them.

    Now that is much more likely. However, I tend to agree with 'fushigi' that there is a "glitch in the ECU".

    Since this will take gobs of bucks to replace all ECU units if Toyota can't pin it down to a certain run that were built, they will just wait this out for a while.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    edited July 2010
    Although, mass hysteria is possible too! People start imagining it is happening to them.

    Supposedly there are 98 people dead from unintended acceleration. My MPV had 2 cases of accelerating of it's own free will. This was 6 years ago before the mass hysteria. Once it happened when I had the car, and once when my wife had it. It was only about a month after we had bought the car. I took it into the dealership, they said nothing wrong with it. The transmission is one that is suppose to "learn". So, I figured that it learned it was hazardous to it's shiny metal and new components to accelerate without my input or approval... as it hasn't happened since.

    Also, I think I've been cursed enough. How about somebody starting another thread? Perhaps something titled, "Bless You Jipster". :blush:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    Bless you, Jipster! That was one big sneeze. Now clean off your computer screen and count your blessings. ;)
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Thanks tallman. My kids found, and have befriended and fed, a solid black kitten the other day. Just lucky that It's still hanging around the house. That's one more blessing to count... right? :cry:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,389
    My kids found, and have befriended and fed, a solid black kitten the other day. Just lucky that It's still hanging around the house. That's one more blessing to count... right?

    We adopted a black kitten several years ago. I'll just say that I now understand why people often believe that black cats are disguised demonic entities...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited July 2010
    Last night our 20 pound monster cat was sleeping at the foot of our bed and I must have done "something" to annoy it while I was sound asleep.

    A bite to my big toe was an immediate attention getter!

    This was a first time occurance and it better not happen again!
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Last night our 20 pound monster cat was sleeping at the foot of our bed and I must have done "something" to annoy it while I was sound asleep.

    Nah...it probably had a bad dream; like its master decided to come out of retirement. :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I hope for it's sake and mine that it doesn't have the same dream again.

    My toe still aches!
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    a solid black kitten

    For heaven's sake, man... stay away from mirrors and ladders for awhile! :surprise:
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