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Comments
Agreed. I'm astonished by the progress that Hyundai has made over the past few years. I've sat in (but haven't test driven) a Genesis & was impressed by the high quality of the materials & how tightly screwed together everything was.
When (not if) Hyundai sorts out the ride issues & offers AWD in the Gen, it will be a killer in this market segment.
I agree with you on Audi. Great cars. Beats BMW hands down. In my area though, the Audi dealers are simply the worst I have ever seen. Poor facilities, poor salesmen, and just about poor anything else. The Hyundai dealer makes them look very bad by comparison.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Don't confuse sucking up with people who have good taste.
Richard
As for increased BMW sales, some people buy a status symbol no matter how ugly the car may be. Many years ago, I did some modeling for some men's stores and department stores. I once had to wear a Hickey Freeman jacket in a fashion show---brown with tan and black raised wool dots. It was the ugliest garment ever worn by man or woman. Just because I wore it in the show, the store took six orders for that jacket before the evening was over. I've always maintained that some people will buy any thing if they think that it is the latest fad or what the neighbors may buy. That's one reason our country is in trouble now---people living beyond their means and buying things that they can't afford just to make themselves look good to others. Too bad the "others" aren't the ones paying the bills.
The fins, chrome, wire wheels, white wall tires etc. of the '50's and '60's were a wonderful experience in the American automobile industry. (You should see Houdini's collection of car pictures from the '50's and '60's---just fabulous.) Regardless of staying power, those magnificent beasts were some of the most beautiful illustrations of auto creativity and ingenuity in the world. While European cars may be excellent in engineering and performance, nothing can ever replace the artistic designs provided by our domestic manufacturers.
Richard
LOL! That was wonderful. It reminds me of the will of a friend of mine. It says, "I hereby bequeath all of my debts to the following relatives:" It cracks me up every time he mentions it.
Richard
I think driver takes this too seriously....
Check out the review by our own fine friends at Edmunds. Some hi-lites:
*, the GLK will still appeal to brand snobs in search of a small luxury sport-utility, but it at least does it while being a meticulously engineered piece of 100 percent Mercedes-Benz excellence
* The GLK may be the second-cheapest Benz you can buy in the United States, but it certainly doesn't seem that way. Closing the doors is like sealing yourself in Terry Benedict's Bellagio vault — impenetrable to everything but George Clooney and 10 pals. Railroad tracks and deep potholes are casually brushed off without a millimeter of body flex. It feels as if you could roll over a grenade and suffer nothing but a muted thump. On second thought, forget Gretel; try Panzer.
*While the result may not be the sportiest compact SUV around, like the C350, the GLK350 represents an ideal balance between ride and handling that should please most luxury buyers.
*We were prepared to dislike the 2010 Mercedes-Benz GLK350, but we handed over its keys duly impressed. While others provide more space and/or more equipment for the same amount of money (or less), none offer those unmatchable Mercedes traits of painstaking over-engineering and top-notch interior craftsmanship that is certainly worth some, if not all, the price premium. Not all Benzes have upheld these traditions, but the GLK has most certainly earned its three-pointed star.
I printed a lot because whatever C&D is looking for sure was different than what Edmunds says. Check it out at Edmunds GLK
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Some may get more utility from spending less on a car and more on something else.
IMHO there are a lot of nice good cars for reasonable prices, if you want to spend your hard earned cash on a name thats your business. I will buy the Sonata (its a real nice car) and spend the extra money on other fun things.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It's not the name I am buying, it is a much better vehicle, worth every penny of that $15000 extra.....to me.
You like to have a nice bike that might be worth $2000 (I am guessing since I think you are an enthusiast). I like going for a ride on a bile too, but I can get one i would be satisfied with for $200. We have people come to our open to the public once a month book sale and they will buy $150 worth of books....some people would say they can read books for free at the library. Some people have DVD collections worth $1000s of dollars........I almost never buy DVDs and I can't understand why any one would want to see a movie more than once, unless it is Singing in the Rain. That's what makes the world an interesting place.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A neighbor owns one, & I can't say that I'm turned on by the styling. IMO, the Infiniti EX35, which competes in this category, is a more attractive car. By comparison, the GLK comes off looking overly boxy. Perhaps this is one of those cars where color choice really matters. The neighbor's car is black, which seems to emphasize the boxiness.
Something else that colors my thinking is my perception that overall, Mercedes trails the pack in most categories among the German Big 3 (BMW, Audi & Mercedes). For example, I'd much rather own a BMW 3 or 5 than the counterpart MB C or E. And if I could afford a premium-priced sedan, I'd pick the upcoming Audi A8 over the S-class MB. It seems to me that Mercedes has been playing catch-up to the other 2 companies for most of the last 10 years.
Both Mercedes & BMW really should worry about Audi, which is white hot right now.
Here's my situation: I have a BMW 330i & a Honda CR-V that I'd like to replace with a single vehicle. (The Honda was my railroad station car, but I'm retired now.) I'm playing with the idea of buying a luxury SUV, which would give me the the Honda's 4WD & carrying capacity & the BMW's luxury, if not its sportiness.
I won't make up my mind until next year. For one thing, I want to see the new X3, which will hit the States in January. While the current X3 has been criticized for its harsh ride & an interior that isn't up to BMW's usual standards, the new X3 supposedly fixes those shortcomings. In addition, the X3 has a big advantage over the competition: you can buy it with a stick. Most of my 44+ years of driving experience has been with manuals, & I'm not sure that I'm ready to step down to an automatic.
We'll see what happens. I'm still in the thinking/looking stage. Now that I'm retired, I can visit showrooms on weekdays when the traffic is light.
I think you have been drinking too much "Tea". I went to the Cruise night 2 weeks ago and I love seeing the cars there, but I particularly like the cars from the 50s, 60s and 70s...those are the cars I grew up with. I had two favourites; a 61 T-Bird with a tonneau cover over the back seats. He had an aftermarket 45 speed record player mounted under the dash, and an 8 track built into the console. My favourite though was a Sunbeam Tiger sports car. That is a Sunbeam Alpine but it has a Ford V8 under the hood. Those two cars stand up as examples of good design that still look good today, but there are a lot of really poorly designed cars over the years too.
See our beloved Edmund's review of the GLK and you might understand why it is a superior engineered vehicle and why it is a unique experience to drive and own such a car.
This to me is an example of over the top bad design, I realize there are many who will love this chrome laden, big finned, overly gaudy barge but I am on a roll here with upsetting a few people any way.;
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The article mentions lots of good things about the GLK and I can't see how someone could read that and then say, well a Kia Sorento will get me from A to B and will cost a lot less. Read about the rock solid doors, the engine, the handling and you will see this car is a step above the others. They don't say those things when they are reviewing most SUVs. This is a real case iof you get more than you pay for, a Navigator would cost a lot more than the GLK, and I haven't seen the reviews but I will assume it won't be as complimentary.
Some brief comments:
Some people prefer the rounded bubbly look of cars like the Infinity EX35. I prefer cars that are squared off.....and I like to see a hood in front of me.
So, I like the GLK styling, and I like them in black and in white with the black roof.
It seems to me that Mercedes has been playing catch-up to the other 2 companies for most of the last 10 years
I think that was true but i hear nothing but good things about the latest MB cars. If you are looking for a standard though, they are hard to find in the MB line. You have to think of MB as luxury first, handling and performance, second, whereas BMW is higher in performance, and luxury is down the list. Audi is in the middle, but leans a bit more toward performance lately.
current X3 has been criticized for its harsh ride & an interior that isn't up to BMW's usual standards, the new X3 supposedly fixes those shortcomings
Good idea to wait. I enjoyed my X3 though I see it because our daughter has it and loves it. The interior is pretty plain and the dash is not the nicest design. But, it is really a 3 Series in disguise, so handles beautifully....and that makes up for a lot. The new one should solve the interior problem.
. In addition, the X3 has a big advantage over the competition: you can buy it with a stick
My X3 was an automatic, but to really enjoy a BMW to the max you need a 6 speed shifter.
You will have some interesting decisions to make.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
How about if you buy one, then still recommend it?
C&D is based in Michigan, so their perspective maybe different than Edmunds.
Nope the G class is, IMHO its base price is 105K to much.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Richard
Richard
Richard
driver--
I take your point, but I would argue that even a novice bike rider would notice a huge difference in a $200 Walmart "bike" (which is all $200 will get you these days) and even a $450 entry level from a respected manufacturer, if only in ease of shifting and much better braking. Those differences would be more negligible to a novice between an $800-$900 bike and a $2000 bike.
I would venture to guess that most novice cyclists wouldn't dream of sticking their toe in the $2000 pond, but plenty of novice drivers want to drive a luxury brand simply because of the name. Wasn't jmonroe talking about the gaggle of young women engineers he knew who just had to buy a shiny new BMW once they got their first paycheck? I doubt they cared a lick about the driving dynamics, and had they been blindfolded, wouldn't have been able to tell the BMW from any other nameplate.
There is no doubt a recognizable and appreciable difference for aficionados. You happen to be a germacaraholic while snakeweasel sips some different kool-aid.
Gogiboy
Richard
I would say that you are batting a 100 at this point.
"I think that you have been drinking too much Tea."
Better too much Tea than too much Kool-Aid.
Richard
At the opposite end of the automotive food chain I saw something called a "Trabant" while visiting Croatia back in mid-June. I was told that the body was made out of plastic by the East Germans and it is the most mass-produced car ever made. I asked about the Yugo and even the Croatians laughed about how poorly the car was made and how it is the automotive reflection of all that was wrong with communism. They disavowed any connection to the car and reminded me that it was made by the Slovenes. The Trabant, however, despite its east German pedigree, is considered something of a collectible.
Gogiboy
I seriously doubt that most novice cyclists would recognize a name brand in the $2K pond.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
No, I didn't just know this information. I researched it.
Richard
I am sure it wasn't the jacket that sold it. Women saw the model and realized they had to buy one for their husband!.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What you did say was;
", if you want to spend your hard earned cash on a name thats your business".
I don't think that many people spend an extra $10,000 to buy the badge. Until you actually "drive" a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes I don't think you will understand why people will pay a premium to own the car. Some people buy it for the "badge", but not very many, and it may surprise many, but many women know the difference in how cars handle.......and they want the best they can afford.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The G Class has been discontinued. It is updated from a military vehicle and is actually quite impressive if you see them in real life. I think the Aztec would take 1st place over the G Class as worst looking vehicle any day.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's at almost double the price and I think even the most novice "woman driver" would notice the difference after turning one corner from a $35k BMW compared to a $15k Focus.
women engineers he knew who just had to buy a shiny new BMW once they got their first paycheck? I doubt they cared a lick about the driving dynamics, and had they been blindfolded, wouldn't have been able to tell the BMW from any other nameplate.
Hope your wife doesn't read that. I know 3 women who own BMWs, including my wife, and they wanted the car because of the way it drives and handles, and the safety features. I imagine there might be a vane person somewhere who would spend $10 or $15 extra for the badge, but not too many. Also, we are talking about pretty sharp women who might even be engineers and be university educated, so we shouldn't assume they are buying the cars because of the badge.
Those differences would be more negligible to a novice between an $800-$900 bike and a $2000 bike
Maybe so, but all these comments sound like sour grapes to me, unless you experience the difference. There is a difference, and almost all those people driving a BMW, including women, are driving it because of the unique driving characteristics and it is a fine piece of engineering....the ultimate engineering at a descent cost.
You happen to be a germacaraholic
What the heck does that mean?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I know way to many BMW and MB owners who love to mention what they drive to know that you can place a BMW badge on a yugo and there will be people buying it.
Until you actually "drive" a BMW, Audi, or Mercedes I don't think you will understand why people will pay a premium to own the car
I have driven BMW's, Audis, Porches and Benz's, and while I appreciate the difference I can think of was I would rather spend the $15K more the car would cost me. Not that I wouldn't pay extra for the handling of say a BMW but for the very limited time I would actually use it (or even have the ability to use it) I cannot justify to myself that much extra. Is it worth to me a couple of grand? Yes. Is it worth to me 15 grand? No.
If it is to you fine its uour money, but I would get better enjoyment to get a slightly lesser car and use the $15K for other things.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Agreed but then a lot of those boxy cars like scion and Kia has would give them a run for their money.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Flattery will get you every where.
Richard
Driver: "What the heck does that mean?"
Germa---as in Germany. You are obsessed with German made automobiles, especially the BMW.
Richard
driver....I understand your love of German iron.....especially BMW. Generally speaking, they are not chock full of value, however. Mentioned before, over the years I had previously owned 2 BMWs (3s). My sister did a dance with an Audi A6 a few years ago (only to trade it on a Jaguar...more about that in a moment). I've test driven recent Benz, BMW, Infiniti models.
Bottom line, as isellhonda would say, someone is paying for that "free" maintenance that Benz and BMW offers. And, it's not the manufacturer. Is a BMW worth $10K+ more than an Infiniti G, Acura TL, a Cadillac CTS? As much as I dislike Cadillac, I wouldn't pin a $10K delta as something that would make me pick a BMW again. Note, I'm pricing like for like.....similar options and performance. What you're paying for with the European marks is the before mentioned "free" maintenance. You're paying for all the holiday/vacation pay the German worker enjoys. You're paying for higher corporate taxes the German manufacturers have to pay vs their U.S. based counter parts. I'm of the mind that what you're not paying for is a safer car, a better engineered car, a better built car, etc.
That doesn't make a BMW, a Mercedes, an Audi a bad car. It just makes them more expensive cars that are successfully marketed as "luxury" cars here in the states.
Back to my sister's Audi A6, IIRC it was a 2002. She was coming from a late '90s Cadillac (which, at the time wasn't what I'd consider a "well built" car by GM, but served my sister very well). And, she still hated the Audi for no other reason than she said it was at the dealership at least once/mo for this or that which had gone wrong. Understand, my sister isn't a complainer. And, something must have been seriously wrong with a car before she'll put herself out of commission for a day, a 1/2 day, an hour, even 30 minutes to get her cars fixed.
Finally, after about 2-3 years, she took a bath and decided to trade the Audi (another lesson learned, they don't hold their value very well). I protested vehemently when she asked me if it was a good idea to trade for a.........JAGUAR X-TYPE.
"Are you crazy?"
She did it anyway. Wouldn't you know, the Jag has been a perfect vehicle. No problems over the 100K miles she's owned it....even after the warranty period expired. Since the resale on a Jag is even worse than it is for an Audi, she's looking to drive it until the beginning of next year and trade it for another Jag....XF.
I looked at a one year old XF before buying my TL. Gotta admit, they are some of the most beautiful cars I had ever seen....true luxury. Still, I wanted more sport than luxury. Hoping that Jag has really turned it around with reliability. I never would plunk down the kind of cash a new one costs. However, given their dismal resale, a nice one year old used one still tempts me (and my sister).
Thank you for the definition,. I was going to look it up in the dictionary, but I am glad I didn't, because I am sure it wouldn't be there.
Guess it makes you an Americaholic or is it usaholic?
Gogi is a bikaholic.
By the way did you read the Edmunds review of the GLK at post #56273? The Explorer and Jeep get good reviews based on the improvements made, but they won't get such positive glowing reviews as that one.....you can tell from the review that that car is "SPECIAL".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GG, how about the American union workers who sit around and watch TV and play cards all day...at full pay? Who is paying for that? What about sick day off hang over Mondays and 3 day weekend Fridays? Who pays for that?
Generalizations and anecdotal stories do not really build a case. My neighbor has an 11 year old Jetta Deisel that has gone 300000k miles and it costs him $150 to drive to California from Toronto. Very few repairs and his car looks like new.
You are right though, if you don't know or appreciate the difference in the engineering, then you shouldn't spend the extra money. But, you might save $10000 on the initial cost of the Cadillac, but let's see what happens when you go to trade it in, find out how much it is worth then, especially when you find out the only car you will be able to buy will be another Cadillac.
I could have saved a lot of money by buying a Mustang. It's a good car and I would be fine with it, I certainly wouldn't be embarassed by driving it. I didn't buy the bimmer because of an image thing....I bought it because I like it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Turns out he is now the GSM at a Porsche dealership in Southern California.
Never would have guessed that ...
I couldn't help noticing that the 2010 BMW X3, equipped to my liking, costs as much as an Acura MDX, a considerably more spacious vehicle with a vastly more appealing interior. I've read that the 2011 X3 will feature a badly-needed interior upgrade, & that X3 production will be moved from Austria to South Carolina, which might provide some pricing relief. Still, if I had to make a decision today based on what I've seen, I'd have to go with the MDX.
I expect the Germans to move more of their production to non-union North American plants to stay competitive. We may see the day when only the premium offerings, like the BMW 7-series, are actually built in Germany.
That applies only to UAW plants. Acuras are built in non-union plants where featherbedding has never been a problem. And the Infiniti G37, which is the Japanese car most often compared to the BMW 3, is built in a super-efficient Japanese plant.
Of the cars that are generally considered to be competitive with high-end German cars, only the Cadillac CTS is built in a UAW plant.
Did you hear about Toyota this morning? They have another recall on 410,000 cars in the U.S.---steering problems this time.
Richard
Funny thing - when they did a few de-uglying procedures - like losing the plastic cladding - it wasn't nearly so hideous but by then it was doomed.
graphicguy - I agree with you about the tremendous value of Acura/Infiniti vs. their German competition. I LOVE BMWs. Even my Mom's '08 328xiA (Automatic/no sport suspension/AWD) is an absolute blast to drive. I'm a BMWCCA member & am going to be sad to see my wife's '07 X3 go. I know that the customer pays for "free maintenance," but it is an added value when you compare it to Mercedes-Benz & Audi who do not offer it. German cars are also more expensive because the Euro has been worth so much more than the dollar for the past X number of years. Maybe now that the tables are turning back in our favor (or at least starting to equal), maybe the next X3 & 3 series will be priced below their current models (wishful thinking).
The G37 is a fantastic competitor to the current E90 3 series. Not only is it priced closer to a mildly optioned 328i, but performs damn close to a 335i. Right now is a fantastic time to buy either an Infiniti G37S or Acura TL SH-AWD. With fantastic incentives and low financing rates, either car can be bought for Mid to high $30K + tax. The only way you can get a nicely equipped 335i for that price is to buy it as a 2 year old CPO.
Sales story brewing. My Mom's lease on her '08 328xi is up in December, but she is over her mileage already and BMW is willing to take the car back if she gets into another BMW. She's test driven an '11 5 series & '11 X5. Says she likes the way the 5 drives better, but wants the X5 for the interior space. The salesman has been extremely patient and no pressure. She's driven both cars twice and even went back with 3 car seats to see if they will all fit.
Both cars are about the same price, but the AWD 5 series doesn't come out until November & will no doubt be a "hot car" as something like 85% of BMWs sold in the Northeast are AWD. The X5 will have better financing rates & be available for a very attractive price.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
And the vehicle doesn't deserve the acolades it gets. The earliest models were two-toned often and that accented the features that some want to ridicule. The utilitarian point of the design was good; the disconnect of some portions of the styling isn't good.
In a solid color the car looks nice. A single lady in a home down the road has one. Dark burnt red-brown color.
I can think of many cars that I see occasionally on the road that are as poorly done in appearance as the Aztek. And color choice is sometimes the factor.
The constant ridicule reminds me of politics where some attempt to politicize a long gone president who's out of office. But I wonder if the Aztek were to have been built by toyota or Honda if it would be ridiculed long term as it has.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Great comments nyc. Finally, someone who gets it!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I didn't, but I looked it up and Mako better not read it...he'll want to get rid of his Avalon again.
Toyota, the Japanese automaker, said Thursday that it was recalling almost 373,000 of its Avalon sedans made from 2000 to 2004 because of a steering problem that could cause a crash.
RE GLKIt got a great review. Then again, a review is a review is a review.
I agree, but when you can pick out certain facts, it becomes more than just someone's opinion.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Come on, you don't think Orange and black are the perfect colors for an Aztec?
I think it is perfect!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Not until next spring at the earliest. By then, it will be closing in on its 10th birthday. Rather than sell it, I'd prefer to give it to my son-in-law, who can care for it until my grandson reaches driving age in 2017. I'd like to keep it in the family.
That could be why she's single. :P
(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
Errrrr, I think there's another reason, preference, but that's just my uneducated take on the matter.
The Aztek she has is actually good looking is my point.
As for the orange and black, I put that in the category with the Element colors and cladding. And I recall lots of odd colors, in my opinion, on Civics for a time. There's a strange gold color that someone must have bought dirt cheap example running around this area. I don't care for that color, but it's unusually showy, just like the orange/black Aztek.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Errrrr, I think there's another reason, but that's just my uneducated take on the matter.
The Aztek she has is actually good looking is my point.
As for the orange and black, I put that in the category with the Element colors and cladding. And I recall lots of odd colors, in my opinion, on Civics for a time. There's a strange gold color that someone must have bought dirt cheap example running around this area. I don't care for that color, but it's unusually showy, just like the orange/black Aztek.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That could be why she's single.
I know the Aztek takes a lot of grief and a fair bit of it is deserved - indeed a big piece of it is that the way the various parts clash - but let's face it on mere ugliness it has competition. Now I think it wins the ugliness competition but it's far from the only contender.
The Element is right up there. Like the Aztek it loses some of its eye assault quality if it doesn't have the plastic cladding. I am still amazed that they still make them.