Stories from the Sales Frontlines

nyccarguy

great stories! Keep them coming!

Craig - I like this liberated, retired, & fiesty you!

stickguy

They will arrive in october? the current magazine articles are saying early 2011.

sterlingdog

You mentioned that if you were buying the SUV for yourself, you would be all over the map. That is exactly what has happened to me. We started out with the idea that my wife was going to make the decision. This was to be her car. She loved the Pilot, and I was ready to live with that decision. This was months ago now. When she tried the Pilot, it didn't seem to suit her. She had remembered her old CRV fondly, but didn't like the new ones. Then we thought that perhaps she would like the Grand Cherokee. She didn't. As we looked around, she began to lose interest. Finally, she told me to decide; but she would offer her opinion. That decision has put me in a quandary.

For weeks now, I have researched cars, driven cars, and had many opinions offered---many from this site. I have considered performance, gas mileage, handling, ride, comfort, interior and exterior options, safety features, design, and personal likes and dislikes. We've done the short list three times. The decision has been complicated by the fact that two people must like the choice. I firmly believe that the average person would never spend this much time deciding what car to buy. Still, it's a big decision---expensive and long lasting. I have also discovered that there is no perfect vehicle. There are pros and cons with each.

There is one thing that has recently helped in making our decision. We have both agreed that we don't want a small car. That has taken the list down to four choices at this point.

Though you didn't mention the Flex, what are your thoughts? As fezo says, it's a love or hate relationship. I love it, but my wife isn't sure. Like you, I want a good look at the new Explorer. Life is funny. When I was growing up, there were probably a dozen choices in cars---sedan, station wagon, or convertible---made by 3 to 5 automobile companies. Now there are 179 SUV/Crossovers alone! While it is nice to have choices, it can certainly make the decision a tough one.

Thanks for posting.

Richard

sterlingdog

I called my local Ford dealer about two weeks ago. He said that they would have them in by early October. I'll check again tomorrow. If you're correct, our list may get shortened. We don't want to wait that long.

Richard

fezo

She loved the Pilot, and I was ready to live with that decision. This was months ago now. When she tried the Pilot, it didn't seem to suit her. She had remembered her old CRV fondly, but didn't like the new ones.

And this is the funk that Honda is in right now. Pretty much without exception I prefer the previous generation to the current one. I'll be the previous Pilot would have suited her fine.

bolivar

If you have an Explorer on your list, look at a Honda Ridgeline.

I know, it's a truck. But it's a Honda, so it won't break. It drives like a car. And don't you antique? So you just load them in the back. Put a cover on the back and you can keep the rain off stuff.

They have never sold well. You can get it at or below invoice.

And, it's big.

driver100

"...maybe I'll ask him..."
Good heavens, don't. You'll screw up the question with good intent, and he'll knock your lights out.

LOL.....Yes, I could see that happening......like "I hope you don't mind me asking, but, if insecure guys need a big monster truck to feel good about themselves, how come you feel fine in a Smart Car?"

"Oh, I see Sir, yes, now I understand".

It's like a single friend of mine. When he goes to a bar he tells the ladies he has been taking steroids. That way, if he gets them to go home with him....they won't be disappointed.

driver100

"It is just that in my mind a car should have some metal around it."
Watch out. I think that you are going to make a fine candidate for a Town Car.

There is a limit too, as in having too much of a good thing. The Town Car is probably a good example of that.

driver100

. I like the sporty good looks of both the GLK, ML350 and the Q5. And I like Acadia as well, plus I rented a wrangler in Sedona last week and had loads of fun!! Plus I would like to get a good look at both the new explorer and Jeep Grand Cherokee. Good thing we are not in the market...I would not be able to make up my mind

Way to go murphydog! Here is a guy with an open mind. Looks at a wide variety of cars and can see good in them all. What a refreshing post.

graphicguy

WOW....you guys were busy the last couple of days.

Richard....seems I did miss a few posts. You know how I feel about the Tahoe. It's probably the best vehicle in its class as far as my singular opinion.

The Ford Flex I have no experience with so I can't comment. The Explorer....I know quite a few people who own them, of various years and configurations. All love them.

The Mercedes SUV....again, don't know much about them. I've seen them at auto shows. They didn't strike me as....well.....having enough of anything to garner a more careful look by me. So, no comment there either.

Mystery vehicle? We await the "reveal"...... :P

Craig....while I understand that the online resources really cut into profit margins for car dealerships, that was probably something that needed to be done. In the only industry I'm aware of (at least in the U.S.), buying a car had so much fudge factor built in, and so much "huckersterism" to deal with. At least on line resources gave the consumer a basis (reliable information) to do business. Before those resources, next to no information existed. You took what the dealer said you should take for your trade, not knowing if it was a reasonable number or not. And, although you knew there was "play" in the MSRP to negotiate, you had no idea how much. You would walk away from a dealership, perhaps spending an entire day (or more) and have no idea whether you had been fleeced, or not (most times, we were fleeced).

Don't take offense. I'm fairly certain you and I would have been able to do a quick and easy deal. But, when I was young and dumb, I was the victim of a fleecing (probably more than once) by a dealership. So, I had some experience there.

Regarding airlines, they screwed themselves. Not that it matters other than the fact that I've got quite a bit of consumer experience, but I'm a multi-million miler flier with Delta airlines. In essence, that nets me little more than a few trinkets from them, and some watered down drinks in their Crown Rooms.

But, all the airlines are/were the same. They held their respective geographic areas hostage (with their hubs in major cities) and charged exorbitant prices on air fares even when times were good. What was the business flier (guys like me) going to do? We had a meeting in Boise. No one else flew there except the major airline serving our area. We bit the bullet and paid the price.

They were pretty short sighted. Instead of being reasonable in their fare structure, they fleeced the consumer. When things went sideways, and they received no loyal customer support, they blamed everything and everyone but themselves.

These checked bag fees are here now. But, the smaller airlines are chipping away at that non sense. Southwest started it. It's a matter of time before it will go away.

Heck, there's opportunity locally at the expense of Delta's woes. A small beginning, but I've used a service. Before our international airport was built, there was a regional airport that was utilized. Long forgotten, it's now getting busier as a local commercial startup is offering jets from Cincinnati to New York and Chicago. Fares are good....$600 for round trip, but about $400 if you buy more than one tick at a time....last minute fares (and at least 40% less than Delta). Not as many flights (one/day). But, no airport security hassles. You park close to the plane. No "heard of cattle" experience.

Sorry....got off on a tangent. Carry On!

driver100

. They are also off the list now. The Pilot was a little too small, and the interior of the Acadia wasn't to our liking

Well, I have to get serious here, before I make an idiot of myself going for a test drive in a Town Car. That is very difficult for me to do, as isell said, it isn't fair to the salesman. I have a fairly good story, but I am not good at being untruthful, I am sure he will see through it. If there was a luxury rental place that had a LTC, I would take it out for 30 minutes and try it.

The fact of the matter is...I think Richard's wife would really like the Mercedes (or a Q5) because she will recognize the quality craftsmanship. It will be made right, with seats that are as comfortable as can be, the instrument panel and interior are not flashy, but exudes old fashion attention to detail...it will always look good years from now. The steering will be precise and the car will hug the road. The suspension system will be engineered so that it will glide over bumps better than the other SUVs mentioned......the Jeep Cherokee was eliminated because it was more flash than substance. The Acadia had a tacky interior (Richard is too kind to actually say it). The GLK will be all substance, it will be engineered to the highest standards.

However, you eliminated the Pilot because it is too small. Therefore, I think the GLK won't be suitable, it is probably smaller. It is too bad, because part of the charm is that you would have a car that has the ultimate in comfort, handling, and ride, in a compact package that will be easy to manouever, and will hold most of what you will want to carry.

I would try to fulfill my end of the challenge, but since the GLK won't work, even before it is given a try, I think I have to step down from the challenge....there won't be much point in doing it. I suppose the best part would be if I told the salesman to write up the experience and send it to this sight.

dino001

His reaction to your response was easy to predict. In situations like this it is best to leave personal feelings to yourself, no matter how much you think unjustified his criticism was. You should have left strong wording in check and replace it with something more neutral, yet equally meaning, e.g. Childish -> unreasonable. This way there would be fewer openings for him to pick apart your response and less amunition for his complaints. That it is at least for first several exchanges. After that gloves could come off, as then evidence of his agenda would reveal itself.

Other than that, I feel for you man.

isellhondas

Oh, I've always been fiesty! Just ask the hosts!

driver100

. You should have left strong wording in check and replace it with something more neutral, yet equally meaning, e.g. Childish -> unreasonable.

Very nicely said dino. You can't possibly win this argument, even though you are basically right. No use escalating the argument, as it will just go back and forth and get worse each time. In fact, he might back off, if you show you tried, but you are sorry if he feels slighted or ignored...that wasn't your intention.

murphydog

Richard-

The Flex does not do much for me - at the end of the day the utility does not overcome the styling, from my point of view.

The Ridgeline and Avalanche are kind of interesting, I like the looks of the Avalanche. Not sure if I have enough of a "truck" need to justify either of them.

fezo

mico has found himself in that terrible predicament - never argue with an idiot. Some people might not be able to tell who's who....

michaellno

Richard - you may want to check out the Edmunds Long Term tests - they can be found here.

They currently have a Ford Flex in the fleet with over 65K on the clock. Generally, the feedback is quite positive, especially as a road trip vehicle.

They also have a Chevrolet Traverse, which is a clone of the GMC Acadia.

I, too, am looking forward to the reveal of the "mystery" vehicle.

isellhondas

It's just unfortunate that a person can go to a variety of websites and trash a business or a person who works there.

It's hard and usually unprofessional to try and fight back even when the website allows a rebuttal.

One day one of our salespeople proudly pointed out to a customer that, unlike every other Honda store in the area, we didn't have even one BBB complaint.

Well, guess what? When the nasty customer couldn't get the price he wanted and when we discovered his trade in car had a bad transmission and non working air conditioning, he threw a fit and left only to file a complaint with the BBB.

Lucky for us, they realized what they were dealing with and they rejected his complaint.

And some customers wonder why the sales people scatter when they walk in?

fezo

At least the BBB people have a filter - they decide if they are dealing with a crank.

One of the great downsides of the internet is this ability to post virtually anything anonymously. It brings out all sorts that wouldn't do a thing in the real world. It's just a way for them to feel powerful for a second.

isellhondas

It's no different when people review a restaurant.

I suspect shills and the competition in the area have a lot to do with certain ratings.

sterlingdog

You are exactly right. She liked the older ones best. That is why we ruled out Honda as an option. Had it not been for that, my job would have been over months ago.

Richard

sterlingdog

My thinking was the same as yours---a truck/car combo would fit the ticket for comfort, hauling antiques, size, etc. I showed her the Ridgeline and my favorite, the Avalanche. She was dead set against them because they had too much of a truck look. I reminded her that a friend of hers had the Avalanche and loved it. Still, no deal.

Richard

murphydog

Mirrors my experience exactly! I really like the Avalanche - LTZ with the 5 spoke wheels, it looks sharp, has room and has the bed for the times you need to pick up something dirty and large.

Wife was like..."really?" as in over my dead body...

isellhondas

Personally, I think both the Avalance and Ridgelines are about worthless is trucks.

They have their plusses but if a person wants a TRUCK they should buy a truck with a full size bed.

No other Honda drives as well as a Ridgeline and they are unbeatable in the snow.

imidazol97

>. I reminded her that a friend of hers had the Avalanche and loved it. Still, no deal.

Have you considered just having your lovely bride take a checkbook and go out and buy a vehicle on her own?

sterlingdog

I certainly understand your situation about test driving a Town Car. Perhaps an opportunity will avail itself at some point down the road. If I get a chance, I will try out the GLK when I'm in Raleigh. We're only an hour away, and we do go up about once a month to shop and eat dinner at the Cheese Factory.

Richard

driver100

I certainly understand your situation about test driving a Town Car.

Thanks. I will try it if I get a chance to at all. I think I could justify taking one out for a test drive if I was honestly in the market for a new car. I don't think I would be taking advantage of a poor salesman, because, if I was impressed the salesman would make a sale...it's a long shot, but I know I could be a potential buyer (just like the people with the Suburu)..

If you get the chance it just would be an interesting exercise, to try a car that really will be different. You may be unimpressed. But, as I have said before, I loved my Jeep, and I was skeptical the X3 could be that big of a deal.....but, one test drive and all my previous thoughts about cars being about the same went out the window.

Maybe I should check Craigslist and see if I could start bidding for a chance to buy a test drive in a Town Car.

Kirstie_H

Have you considered just having your lovely bride take a checkbook and go out and buy a vehicle on her own?

Don't be silly. Women can't buy cars. We're too busy concentrating on things like kittens & knitting. :P

fezo

Oh, thank goodness you were the one who said it....

sterlingdog

Michael, thanks very much for introducing me to Edmunds Long Term Test segment. The articles were very interesting. I even read the farewell article on the Grand Marquis. Naturally, they trashed it with great humor and hoop-la. Many posters defended it though. All in all, it is sad to see it go. It served many customers very well---not all seniors or taxi drivers. Though I promised my wife and my nephew that I wouldn't buy a Town Car, the big tanks will always have a special place in my heart. They symbolize an era that has passed. They no longer fit our new age. I realize that we have to move forward. Still, I shall never forget those wonderful Sunday evenings when Ed Sullivan would advertise those beautiful Mercurys on black and white television. I guess that I am just too much of a sentimentalist.

As you say, the Flex did receive many positive comments. It remains on our short list. Thanks again.

Richard

jmonroe

We're too busy concentrating on things like kittens & knitting.

So, how many socks have you knitted for your kittens while waiting for a busy sales person to help you? :shades:

jmonroe

jmonroe

They no longer fit our new age.

Why does it have to “fit our new age”? As long as it fits you and of course Mrs. Richard, that’s all that matters. I think you can schmooze her into seeing your side of it. When I was done with Mrs. jmonroe, I had her thinking it was her idea to buy the Genny and in her favorite color too.

Personally, I think you gave up too soon.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

If you knew my wife, you would NEVER give her the checkbook to go out and purchase anything! :P I don't mean that as a sexist remark. She is a wonderful person with many talents, but finance has never been her bag. I blame her father. Growing up, she was told to just charge what she wanted to Dad. The first month that we were married, she thought that this would also apply to her husband. We had to have a serous talk. Since then, she has always consulted with me regarding large purchases. She never reads a price tag or cares about a sale. If she likes it, she just assumes that we can purchase it. During her teaching career, I think that she spent more on her children than she made. She has never minded that I took care of the finances. Also, she has never asked for very much. That's why I'm working to get her a car that she really likes.

Richard

jmonroe

What gives with the Emotorcons anyway? If they’re going to work only when they feel like it. We’re going to pay our dues the same way. :mad:

jmonroe

sterlingdog

"Personally, I think you gave up too soon."

I could probably have talked her into it, but I want her to enjoy the purchase. To tell you the truth, I was surprised that she didn't want one. She loved the old '89 as much as I did. Go figure.

Richard

sterlingdog

LOL!!! I love that one!

Richard

sterlingdog

Amen! Tidester told me ages ago that the technicians were repairing the problem. If ths is a union strike thing, I'm ready to cross the lines. :shades:

Richard

jayrider

You never miss the water until the well runs dry. I miss Tonguer, Cherry Cheeks and Winky. ["sob-sob"]

murphydog

I hear you, but as an in city home owner I do see a few of the virtues of these hybrid trucks.

A couple times I have been to Costco and I can't fit the plant/desk/TV into the back of the SUV, and had to borrow a truck

or

spring/fall at the lawn and garden shop, getting bark/mulch etc, a small bed is nice

or

taking the lawn mower in for some work

All of these are edge cases at best I know, and really none of them warrant a real truck...and I did try to use them to "justify" the Avalanche...

driver100

Re: explorer [murphydog] by murphydog

It's always fun when people start talking to themselves!

explorerx4

Richard, Regarding the new design Explorer, I am taking a wait and see attitude.
My first choice for just about any vehicle would be RWD based.
So, my Explorer is basically RWD with the 4WD added up front.
I also prefer a V8 engine.
Other than the traditional Tahoe, Expedition, up to 2010 Explorer, Armada, Sequoia, and a few others, the newer ones are all FWD based with AWD added out back.
You may not even be looking at a 4WD/AWD vehicle. I think a lot of posters are making the assumption that you are looking at 4WD/AWD.
I like it because many of our roads were originally designed by the Pilgrim's cows, so the are not best design. Also I have to drive uphill to leave work, and the city is not too prompt about plowing when it snows.
A couple of other things:
Is step in height a big consideration? My FIL won't even attempt to get in my Explorer anymore. He says he can still manage my wife's Escape, but prefers the Fusion because the seat is lower, although it has a very wide door sill.
Is load height in the back of the vehicle an issue for you? Could make a difference unloading your antiques or some luggage.

murphydog

LOL

thought I was replying to Isell. That is what I get for posting at work...

:shades:

tidester

What gives with the Emotorcons anyway?

There seems to be a problem with server coordination. Usually doing a page refresh brings the emotorcons back.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

snakeweasel

when we discovered his trade in car had a bad transmission and non working air conditioning

I once tried to trade in a car and the dealership said that they couldn't give us much for our car as the transmission was about to go. I decided not to buy a car at that time and drove that car about another 100K miles with no transmission issues.

As soon as they said the tranny was about to go they lost the sale. All they did was drive the car around the lot and that tranny was acting perfectly since the day I bought that car to the day I traded it in.

driver100

Usually doing a page refresh brings the emotorcons back.

Nope, that doesn't seem to help.
It really cramps my writing style not to have the emotorcons.
I should get a pro-rated refund. :sick:

driver100

the dealership said that they couldn't give us much for our car as the transmission was about to go.

I guess those guys have esp! I think if they can tell you that you need a new transmission just from a test drive then you know it is time to look for another dealership.

That dealership deserved a nasty posting at Yelp!

isellhondas

Big difference here. This transmission slipped like no tomorrow between gears. It was shot and the seller knew it. The A/C blew hot air.

But, of course, it "onlyu needs a charge"

verdugo

You may not even be looking at a 4WD/AWD vehicle. I think a lot of posters are making the assumption that you are looking at 4WD/AWD.

He's mentioned before that he doesn't care about 4X4/AWD.

explorerx4

I think some of the proposed choices are available only as 4WD/AWD.

mako1a

I did an analysis of what vehicles I had and what I really wanted to have.
After trying unsuccessfully to trade in (for a fair dollar value) my Z-28 Pro Street I listed it on ebay. 166 hits and not one phone call the first 4 days. Then a call.
Guy was 60 miles away and wanted to see it that day. All it takes is 1.
He offered 500 less to which I said No.
As if it was meant to be he said OK, your price is fine and it really is nice.

I guess it was a good deal for both of us because as I was driving to meet him halfway for delivery I had the stereo cranked and sort of was thinking if he was a no show I wouldn't be all that disappointed. The $500 deposit was nothing to me, and I would have returned it no questions asked if he wanted to back out. He was there waiting for me with the rest of the cash (and I'm always early). I went over stereo controls, convertible top function, etc. He drove off happy as could be with the top down (as expected).Tomorrow I turn off insurance and return plates to DMV. Empty place in garage looks sad, but my key fob is smaller.
To be continued...