Stories from the Sales Frontlines

fezo

I might be stepping in it here, but if so I learned something and is often how i learned what I know now, but "letters" being plural, supports the "were", no?

My mother (a teacher) used to tell me that English sentence structure has a natural, fluid and comfortable flow to it and often that can tell you if you've screwed up.
(I know I screw up often and don't always practice the rules)

In this case also, besides the plural of letters, 'were' just sounds more right than 'was'. IMO

I with you there. "Letters were."

jimbres

IMO, Keith is correct. "Number" is clearly the subject of the sentence in question. It's singular, so "was" has to be the correct verb form.

tallman1

The phrase in question was "the number of letters that went out were in proportion to..." It was corrected by replacing "were" with "was".

The "were" refers to the word "number", not "letters". Since number is singular, "was" is the correct word. Try leaving out "of letters" and you'll see that your momma was right all along.

"the numbers that went out were in proportion to..."
"the number that went out was in proportion to..."

oldfarmer50

"...Fishtail that thing in a K-Mart parking lot at the first dropping of snow flakes..."

With 400+ HP you wouldn't need snow to do the fishtailing at K-Mart.

Perhaps I'm getting a little timid in my old age but I'm just a little afraid of having a car with that much power. I worry that it would be a toss up as to which would happen first; jail or crash.

I agree that the old V-6 mustang was nothing special. I too rented one and was not impressed with the handling. The power was OK for a 6 but it reved up like an off-balance washing machine. My Eclipse is no match for these new machines but it has pretty good power (263HP) and it will run up to the rev limiter just as smooth as silk. I'd like it to handle better but I'd have to get rid of the OEM Goodyear all-season tires.

The new Mustang V-6 would have better power and torque than my current ride and with the performance package it would handle slightly better than the GT.

And then there's that $5000 price difference.

I'll have to wait and see how Mako does with his before I decide.

oldfarmer50

"...I've never heard anyone say "I wish I'd bought the model with 100 less bhp"..."

That's because all those guys are in jail or dead. :P I'm not sure that I'm mature or skilled enough to handle a really fast car.

fezo

Sorry, lads. I didn't go back far enough to see the original post.

You are correct. The singular noun (number) needs the verb that agrees with it (was). I'll look more carefully next time.

sterlingdog

I do agree with you. You have to live life as fully as you can while moving toward retirement. When we were younger (30's & 40's), we borrowed money to take trips abroad and across the United States. During the school year, we worked to pay back the loans. I never regretted it. Now that we are older and can't physically do some things that we did on those trips, we're very grateful that we did them at a younger age. My point to firefighter was that a person needs to save something. Rainy days do come along---health issues, car repairs, new roof, new water heather, etc. I'm the last one to wish "taking him to the end already".

You are very fortunate to have grandchildren, and to be healthy enough to enjoy them. I feel the same way about my nephew and his two boys.

Richard

crkyolfrt

I think your answer can be found here:

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/124638/article.html

Look for the true snow tire symbol on your sidewalls.

I suspect your tires are not true snow tires. The softer rubber of a true snow tire grips ice and wet ice better for cornering and braking even though 'go' traction isn't usually a problem, especially with so many AWD vehicles out there.
Just don't put them on too early in the fall or leave on too late in the spring. They will disappear. I am totally amazed at the ignorance out there surrounding snow tire knowledge. I see MANY soccer mom's and even $125k BMW drivers with 4 snows on, in the Walmart parking lot, in July when it is a hair under 100 degrees out. The BMW guy just came in off the hwy doing 85 and 90 for the last hour or so. So i usually tell them, most just schluff-off my advice, not even being aware or seemingly concerned that snow tires in the summer are UNSAFE! Aside from the fact they literally disappear from one week to the next if you take a look at them, they operate way too hot and don't have the cornering or braking abilities of an All Season once the roads are dry and hot. "Oh I just plan to buy a new set come fall". But that only addresses the financial loss if you're independently wealthy....what about the safety aspect? And you rarely hear someone rant about it, so ignorance out there continues to prevail.

Tell your friends and family and strangers in the Walmart parking lots so we can get the message out there. And Darwin's Theory will take care of the rest...although they will no doubt take a few of the rest of us with them..

sterlingdog

"But that's all part of the charm..."

Charm? I should have known better. The way that you are about the "feel of the road" would certainly endear you to a small Jeep Cherokee.

Richard

crkyolfrt

Thanks all, got it.

The versatility of this forum never ceases to amaze me

sterlingdog

"Preferred" perhaps, but not incorrect. It all depends on your perspective of "essential" vs. "nonessential".

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...Tell your friends and family and strangers in the Walmart parking lots..."

Ha ha. I can just see you running around the Walmart lot yelling at people about their tires. Sounds like something my wife would accuse me of doing.

fezo

Charm? I should have known better. The way that you are about the "feel of the road" would certainly endear you to a small Jeep Cherokee.

LOL!! I can't believe I didn't make that connection! My "I gotta have a BMW" meter just fell several points.

I like your stories of younger vacations. I should get more in before I turn 60 which is only two months away. I'll need a loan.....

Kirstie_H

Too many to do individually:

No negotiating on trade-in or on car prices at Carmax. It's both the positive and the negative of dealing with them - you know exactly what you're paying, no games, but you're not likely to get the best price.

Can't put a hitch on the G35 - wouldn't do any good. It's just not a towing vehicle. Plus, the point of towing is to put a waverunner into the water. RWD does not do well when both back wheels are in the water (on slippery concrete).

kyfdx, the Forester was actually the one I was looking at; however, their asking price was just too high - thousands above any dealer retail price I could find using guides, or vehicles offered for sale at dealerships w/in 100 miles.

GG, I like the Juke as well. Kind of a silly name, but I have had teenagers and therefore no longer have any pride. I need to check it out in person.

crkyolfrt

I hear the new six is more than just capable. Apparently fuel mileage is higher than you would think too, although I'm sure that's if you are consciously light-footed.

If I where considering the new Mustang, and since handling is high on your priority list (as it would be on mine too) I think I'd be comparing the weight difference between the six and the eight. Back when cast iron blocks were the norm, the lighter engined car handled the best due to better front/rear weight distribution. But without looking it up, I'll take a stab at a guess here. Both are probably all aluminum right? So my guess is an 80 to 90 pound difference. The other dif would be if the six sits lower also (it might), then lower COG starts to play a part too, even if the weight dif is negligible. (altho on a race track even just 80 to 90 lbs is more than negligible).

sterlingdog

No, I did mean "end" as retirement. I just don't want you to reach retirement with no savings, investments, etc. Still, I want you to enjoy life. As jmonroe says, it's a balance that is important. I've seen too many people who couldn't retire because of poor planning or simply the lack of funds. This has been especially tragic during the last three years. For that reason alone, enjoy your youth. Also, we never know when the Grim Reaper will knock at the door.

Richard

crkyolfrt

haha, actually I start with small chat first and work my way into the more technical aspect. Gotta go that route in order to achieve some credibility first, cuz they don't know me from Adam right?

Now the ones who pull in and only have 12 psi in the left front tire, I don't bother with the small-chat. They get the blunt and fast: "your front tire is super hot to the touch and has only 12 pounds in it".
Then I either get: "oh thanks so much" or....."ya, I keep telling my husband about it months ago" or..."ya, I aired it up about 5 times in the last 2 months".
"A nail or a screw in it will cause those symptoms, love."

but I digress..

Today we have the complexity, expense and PITA-factor when they screw up (which is often) of tire psi monitoring devices, instead of people simply taking responsibility for the most simplistic of basic car ownership duties. I used to tell the GF that when you fuel it and don't have time to pull the gauge out, at least do the "thumb test" and temperature test (with their hand).

driver100

Charm? I should have known better. The way that you are about the "feel of the road" would certainly endear you to a small Jeep Cherokee

Yes, this is the real feel of the road. Forget Handling and control and the other C -HCC. This is like having your bum right on the road.

Oh, what a feeling!

I like that sense of you know what you are driving.

I think we might set a record today...about 60 posts so far.

crkyolfrt

Now we know where, driver, gets his challenge defense arguments from..
j/k

crkyolfrt

nothing like live axles to give you a lively ride..

imidazol97

...The number of letters was in proportion...

The subject of the sentence is "number." The verb is "was," singular.

The number was

"Of letters" is a prepositional phrase with "of" being the preposition and letters being the object of the preposition.

A parallel example to your query might be:

The taste of the apples were bad because of the worms that had drilled through them.

The correct form:
The taste of the apples was bad... taste is subject and was is the verb in this case.

Taste was.

fezo

I thought the apples tasted pretty good. i must have missed the worms.

You example is perfect.

28firefighter

Richard,

Now I understand. I know exactly how quickly life can turn you on your head, for reasons I prefer not to share here. I'll just say, that I have experienced more of the medical procedures you were discussing a short time ago than I'd care to remember.

I've dealt with many battles in my relatively short time, but have survived and learned from them. Picking and choosing what I let my stress out over was one of those things that I learned (after you go through some big things, the small stuff really doesn't seem like such a big deal).

I'd like to think that I've got a good balance going right now between living in the now and planning for the future, without losing sight of what is important (to me).

On a side note: My BMW is back from the shop. I'm so excited I can hardly sit still waiting to go drive it home.

jimbres

It all depends on your perspective of "essential" vs. "nonessential".

Perhaps, but if you want to insist on using "which" instead of "that" (my preference), then you must set off the dependent clause with a comma - for example, "my shirt, which...".

If you don't like the comma, then you must use "that". You can't use "which" without the comma.

For an excellent discussion of this, see page 59 of the writer's Bible: The Elements of Style, by Strunk & White. (I have the 1979 printing.)

driver100

My BMW is back from the shop. I'm so excited I can hardly sit still waiting to go drive it home.

Could you explain to Richard and others who may not understand, why you miss your "BMW" so much? I think you understand, it is more than a car...it is like part of you, oryou are part of it. There are cars, and then there are BMWs.

jwilliams2

We should ask our host's to start a new forum discussion topic. They could name it "Common Sentence Structure, Punctuation and Spelling Errors". Of course, that would probably reduce the message count on this one by half. :P

fezo

I should have known you would have The Elements of Style sitting on your bookshelf!

Anyone here who hasn't read Eats, Shoots and Leaves really needs to.

28firefighter

It really is too hard for me to explain. First I'll tell you what I have for those that don't know, as well as my previous cars.

I have a 2004 BMW 330xi with 82,000 miles on it. I've owned it for approximately 3 months. Prior to this I had a lease on a 2009 Subaru Legacy that expired a couple months back, and before that I had a 2001 Ford Taurus SEL.

There are a few things I enjoy about it:
1) It feels like I'm sealing myself in a vault every time I get in the car. There is nothing more satisfying than getting into a car, and feeling like you are truly safe in it. My Subaru door would rattle every time I pulled it closed.

2) The suspension and steering. The only way I can describe this is that when I drive it, I feel as though I am moving with the car, rather than controlling it as a disinterested party. The steering is very stiff (which I recognize is a negative for some), and the suspension is tight. For the first time, instead of constantly braking around corners, I am more than comfortable accelerating into them.

3) The engine and transmission. It has an elegant, yet mean sounding engine that is coupled with a transmission that is smooth as silk through the gears. The M54 has such an impressive power band coupled with its transmission (I have an automatic), that I never feel like I'm without power. The Taurus was slow off the line and would top out very quickly. The Subaru was too heavy for its own good and with only a 4spd transmission, it would hesitate waiting to downshift if I had to pass - very dangerous and scary feeling. Even after it downshifted, it wouldn't do much over 70 miles an hour in terms of emergency speed increases. It needed to mosey its way up.

Some of you will think I'm crazy, and that very well may be the case. But, it puts a smile on my face every time I turn it on and start driving.

Driver - is that what you had in mind?

tjc78

In a nutshell what Driver and 28 are trying to say is you either love BMWs, or you just don't get it. I am in the latter category as I have driven the most floaty vehicles out there (Town Cars, Grand Marquis, Avalons) and never felt disconnected from the road or unsafe at any speed.

Kirstie_H

Why, I already created a suitable discussion some time ago:

Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It

driver100

it puts a smile on my face every time I turn it on and start driving.
Driver - is that what you had in mind?

That is exactly what I had in mind. I didn't want everyone to think it is just me imagining this feeling. There are several cars that probably come close, but none can match the feel of the road, er the same level of handling, contro and cornering.

I think you are saying that you feel you are part of the car...all at one with your car. It fits like a glove. That firm steering is different than the old, the "easier the wheel moves the better the steering is, because we are making it easier to turn - no effort!". No effort = no feel for the steering.

I hope others can understand this to some degree, but I think you can only truly understand when you drive one.

driver100

you either love BMWs, or you just don't get it. I am in the latter category as I have driven the most floaty vehicles out there

I agree, but I think people are happy with floaty soft riding cars with easy steering because that is what they have been told is the goal of making good cars.

What those people don't realize is they are missing the real enjoyment of driving.

If you have tried both, and still like that soft spongy ride, and loose steering, then go with it....you are happy with what you got and stay with it.

If you haven't experienced a bmw, then you should be open to it.....there is a difference, ust not right for everyone.

driver100

Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It

I checked it out.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
450 Posts since April 2007, we do more than that in a week!

Last post was in March, and there were 2 Posts that month.

People could be dying over there.

fezo

So I put a post there - but a repeat of a joke I already posted here...

Kirstie_H

Only by posting off-topic comments.

If I chose to move all of the grammar posts over to that topic, it would give this one a run for its money.

houdini1

Towing that waverunner reminds me of a picture I saw once. This lady had called her husband and told him she could not get their boat trailer deep enough into the water to float the boat. He told her to just go until the boat floated.

Now here comes the picture...the poor woman had driven down the boat ramp head first instead of backing down. In the picture the Tahoe was practically under water and the boat trailer was still high and dry.

Kirstie_H

Just in case this fits anyone here....

A reporter is interested in talking with someone who thinks perhaps the competition has caught up to Toyota and Honda; someone who may be considering new brands for the first time in awhile.

If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to pr@edmunds.com no later than 5pm, Thursday, November 11, 2010, and include your city and state of residence, your email address and your telephone number.

explorerx4

To avoid the electronic nannies, go for one of these: Boss 302 :shades:

imidazol97

I have been checking out the new cars occasionally. I looked at the Regal after they'd been out a few weeks. The salesman wanted me to drive one even though I wasn't interested currently at all; I am just browsing. He insisted I come back another day when I wished to and drive one.

More recently I found two new Cruzes had shown up at a local Chevrolet dealer. I stopped and peeked into the windows and looked at the stickers on the windows. After a while a salesman came out and pleasantly accepted my saying, "I'm just browsing."

More recently I've noticed the store has a short line of Cruzes sitting including some _red_ ones. So I thought I'd cruise through the lot. I did that in my oldest car, a 1998. One of the crews of salespeople they have there actually walked out onto the lot as I sat inside my car just looking at the variations of the wheel sizes, tire sizes, brake types (disc or drum), and color -- all from the security of my car interior.

He walked up to the car and motioned for me to down the window as I backed up to turn and head for the lot exit ramp. He walked backwards and then he paced me for a while as I slowly left. I was waving him away the whole time. I was not interested in talking to anyone. That's one reason I didn't get out of the car.

Let's see who notes what's interesting in this post, other than the Cruze is pretty nice rendition of a slightly larger than Cobalt-sized vehicle, especially for my interests. Richard?

For the curious, I sneaked back onto the lot after closing on Saturday evening at dusk to inspect the 7 cars more closely.

explorerx4

Wrangler?

explorerx4

If you get a chance, drive an M version, or better yet, a Porsche.
You will realize although the 3 is the best you have driven, they are the Mustang v6 of the breed. Sorry, but it the truth.

tidester

We should ask our host's to start a new forum discussion topic. They could name it "Common Sentence Structure, Punctuation and Spelling Errors".

That would be futile in these days of texting and tweeting.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

verdugo

I know we have a few vets around here. Have a great day and thanks for all that you've done!

This!

I landed back in Sacramento last night and there were about 60 veterans with flags waiting for somebody. It was pretty cool to see. Unfortunately I waited about 10 mins and the person they were waiting for hadn't come out.

crkyolfrt

yes, good example thanks :thumb up:

28firefighter

Oh believe me, I know. There is a reason I won't drive one right now. I'm well aware that I am in the starter version.

The M and the Porsche come later.

imidazol97

> there were about 60 veterans with flags waiting for somebody.

I wonder if it was an Honor Flight returning? I have seen the advertisement clips on the public TV stations and on TV news shows about flights taking WWII vets to DC free to visit the memorial and their caretakers as well. Those I saw had a contingent of Vets in WWII uniform hats or more of the uniform meeting the returning flight. The clips were asking for fund donations and reviewed how many different flights had been paid from various parts of Ohio.

It's a wonderful thing to see many of them in declining health getting the opportunity before they pass from this life.

sterlingdog

"You can't use 'which' without a comma."

Yes, you can. I refer you to The Practical English Handbook by Watkins and Martin. See page 119 under the section on commas:

"Some modifiers can be read either as essential or as nonessential, and the punctuation indicates which meaning is intended. Examples:

The coins which gleamed in the sunlight...(more than one coin)

The coin, which gleamed in the sunlight, ...(only one coin)"

In my sentence, I used the plural "shirts which hint..." (more than one shirt)

Richard

sterlingdog

"Richard?"

I did find one thing very interesting. You did not cave in and roll down your window. I also noticed that you kept backing out of the lot with the salesman pacing you. It all tells me one thing: You are comfortable in your own skin, and you live life your way.

Four other things gave me pause. One, how can you identify brake types from the interior of your car? Two, what does "_red_ones" mean? Third, I didn't realize that they still produced Regals. Four, how can you look through a dealer's show room window and read the stickers on the car windows? You must have wonderful vision.

Richard

sterlingdog

I learned at the feet of masters. (Grin) BTW, that would be "Now we know where Driver gets his challenge defense arguments." (Wink)

Richard

stickguy

just to help out here, some answers.

- If the car has alloy wheels, you can see through the spokes and tell if the rear brakes are disk or drum
- Yes, the regal was just reintroduced a few months ago. It is now a rebadged Opel, originally intended to be a Saturn.
- "Red" is a color. this should be self explanatory!
- Not sure about his vision, but I believe the cars were parked out front.