Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    You make some good points.

    General question here for anyone. What was last year to be able to buy a BMW with non-runflat rubber? And same question in an AWD?

    I think there is an irony here that surrounds a BMW. It is a drivers car, proven in many ways but specifically a big one in my books in that they still offer a number of manual trannys in them. Yet many/most real drivers and enthusiasts who appreciate the handling strengths that a BMW offers up, like to row their own gears and do their own work. Just how many guys that are at the track on a w/e who don't so their own oil changes and at least tire swaps.

    In NA I think BMW's slot is there (where it is) by default. It has such wide range of owners, but most are affluent spenders. Even the young (wealthy) chics all seem to want to buy a BMW. Or at least they want to be seen in one. ANd they buy autos of course, cuz they never learned how to drive a stick. If you were to ask any given one of those wet behind the ears teeny boppers something specific about a BMW's true talents, they couldn't elaborate on even one single thing is my guess, save maybe for saying they are pretty quick if they press the accelerator...(as long as the tranny is rowing its own gears).

    Crap...what am i trying to say? I think it is this..that for such a driver's car, it seems almost blasphemous that if an owner who is knowledgeable and capable (given the right tools) that that same car has to be returned to the dlr for almost everything. If anyone has ever re and re'd their own engine and tranny at home in the back yard and then starts it and puts it in gear and drives off troublefree with nary so much as an adjustment till the next oil change, then those guys (and girls...albeit few) knows that level of satisfaction with how well your wheels communicates to you when driving, can even be topped by accomplishing that task. It is a great feeling even tho your back and neck and arm muscles all hurt like blazes. If you have never done it, then you don't know..

    So the BMW seems ill-slotted somehow because I know so few would ever entertain an engine swap...at least on any of them in the last 15 to 20 years or so..
    It's like its true capabilities fly over the heads of the majority of the wealthy owners who buy and especially, lease them.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We used to buy a LOT of off lease Hondas at the auction and I really can't remember any that were a problem. Our buyer would pass in the ratty ones and cherry pick the rest.

    During our Used Car Inspection, if it was noted that the oil looked especially dirty the guys would pull the valve cover to see if the engine was sludged up. I can't remember any that they had a problem with.

    But, one night I took in a very nice Civic Coupe. Bought new and not a leased car. I remember it had something like 70,000 miles on it. It looked and ran very well.

    The guy worked for Microsoft and he drove the Civic a half mile to the Park and Ride to catch the bus. After work, a half mile drive home. As I recall, the Civic was about 8 years old at the time.

    The next evening, I was working late and one of the night shift mechanics came to get me. He wanted to show me something on that Civic.

    When I walked into the shop, three or four guys were clustered around the Civic looking under the hood.

    The valve cover had been pulled and they wre all staring at the valve train which was encapsulated in thick goo! It looked like a jello mold!

    You couldn't even see the rockers!

    One of the guys thought that it just might have even had the factory oil filter.

    Surprisingly, the car showed no sign of distress. It still ran very well and had all of it's power.

    The oil got changed several times and the Civic got wholesaled.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,681
    if you don't want runflats, just put on normal tires. Either roll the dice you don't get a flat, get a can of fix a flat, or buy a donut.

    The well for the spare is still there.

    actually, my BIL bought a 550 (2 years ago I think, might be a 2008) that came with summer performance run flats. It was wasn't until he got home and looked in the trunk that he discovered it also came with a spare tire! Needless to say, when time came for new rubber, he saved a bundle getting non-runflats.

    also, BMW does not want you to touch the car. It doesn't even come with a dipstick anymore.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,681
    the big danger with non-serviced leases is that the damage, if any, likely shows up later. Most come back by 3 YO and 30-40K on them, so probably not enough time to really have symptoms of abuse apparent.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's true.

    I don't think many leased cars are subject to zero or sparse maintenance but I do know that they certainly don't get over serviced like cars people plan to keep for ten years.

    And, I used to tell my customers that. " If you're the slightest bit worried, you shouldn't buy it".

    People skimp on non leased cars too.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,151
    Not true in my case

    I was thinking more along the lines of purchasing, not maintenance and repair. Most BMWs are more expensive (similarly equipped) than many other makes to purchase.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,151
    do know that they certainly don't get over serviced like cars people plan to keep for ten years.

    I change the oil every 4 - 5000 miles on my leased cars and usually do an air filter and cabin filter once. I also rotate the tires every other oil change so they wear evenly. In the 36K ill have it I think that is enough. I would be willing to bet that is more than some people who own it do.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, I do the same thing.

    Just turned in our leased 2007 Accord. After four years it only had 22,000 miles.

    In that time, it had four oil changes, one tire rotation, one air filter but no cabin filter.

    Whoever gets it will get a great car.

    I just can't stand to abuse anything!
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Now,see? That's the one I should have bought....

    I need to find someone like you turning one of those in!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You maybe still can!

    I took delivery of the new CRV a week ago Monday in the snowstorm.

    Fly out, you can spend the night here and drive it home!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,681
    wait, bailing on me already? It turns 6 in 2 weeks, and probably will still be a few miles below 60K at that point.

    Oh, and I just detailed it this week. Interior looks vastly better without the dog hair, grass clippings, and my daughters assorted paper droppings! Even waxed it up, so it is nice and smooth and shiny for you.

    as to leases, something I have never done, I would probably treat it like my other cars for oil changes, but nothing more. When the service light comes on, it will get a basic oil change.

    tires will only get rotated if I see uneven wear, since most likely they will get replaced before return. And not a chance I am changing something like the air filter or brake fluid!

    so if I bought it, it would get more and sooner preventive maintencance, but that is stuff not called for in the manual.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    What a plan!

    I'll be poking along in the Ody a few more years I suppose but yours was the last generation of Accord I still really liked.

    CRV is nice. My brother has the previous generation of that one. I like the look of the previous version better but almost everything else about the new version.

    I hear they are finally pulling the plug on the Element.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    for the BMW "free" maintenance is to get those who lease the cars (well over half at one time, maybe less now) to change the oil at all

    I don't think that is going to happen and here is the reason why. All your maintenance schedules are recorded in their computer system. They aren't going to take to kindly to you returning a leased car that hasn't been serviced properly....and the information is all in the computer. I wouldn't want to mess around with that.....extra charges for not servicing the car on time and voiding the warranty!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Oh, if you keep it like that I'll be all set. Heck, you I can drive to and still be home the same day....

    Last time I bought a car from a private party I had to go over to the DMV (well, the MVC) for registration and plates before I could drive it home. They handed me WTF plates. I still have them on the car.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I think the gap is pretty big about now. BMW sales were up 20% in Canada for November this year, Toyota is down 24%. That will affect your trade in value.

    As we all know, the biggest cost to own any car is depreciation, and according to Edmund's, the lowest true cost to own champ among convertibles over $35,000. is the Lexus IS 250. I believe it is made by Toyota, not BMW. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    . What was last year to be able to buy a BMW with non-runflat rubber? And same question in an AWD?

    I believe the last year was 2007 for both. After we signed all the papers we were told about the run flats and it was advisable to buy the insurance as they were worth about $1500 at the time...though now they are about $300 each.

    I think AWD could have been offered earlier but our 2008 was the first year you could get AWD and standard I am pretty sure. I believe Audi has had it longer.

    And that is just a best guess but hope it helps.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    the lowest true cost to own champ among convertibles over $35,000. is the Lexus IS 250. I believe it is made by Toyota, not BMW.

    I would not doubt you....just show it to me in print somewhere! (Yogiism)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    the lowest true cost to own champ among convertibles over $35,000. is the Lexus IS 250. I believe it is made by Toyota, not BMW.

    I would not doubt you....just show it to me in print somewhere! (Yogiism)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,438
    I believe that the M cars still have conventional tires- and you can always replace the run-flats with conventional rubber as well- I plan to.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    If you had a Ford or GM, the car can email you everything about itself every month.
    How is that for technology?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    Seems more like you couldn't stand to drive it. (winky emotorcon)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    30 or so years ago, I wrote a program for the Registration Department with all the 3 letter combinations, so they could decide which ones should be issued.
    'WTF' made it through the vetting process here in CT, too.
    I couldn't believe it the first time i saw one of those plates.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    edited December 2010
    I'm pretty much a Ford guy, although I would like to maybe get a Lincoln some day.
    Said it here before, became one back when my Dad came home with a 56 Fairlane he bought from his boss and I saw the T'Bird valve covers on the engine when he opened the hood.
    Best thing is having an Expedition save my family when hit by a wrong way driver on the highway. The worst is having to put a transmission in my Explorer, which was not the end of the world, after 6 years and 90k.
    Funny thing is, this year we have put the second most mileage on the Explorer since we have had it.
    Both my kids are away at school, so it could just sit.
    I just enjoy driving a RWD vehicle with a V8, so my Fusion has been sitting in the garage quite a bit.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,356
    "...taxable value was around $2600..."

    Well, that milage is a little high and all those "dings" bring the value down a bit....

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,356
    ",,.I'll arm wrestle oldfarmer for it..."

    No rough stuff necessary. I assume that's some sort of SUV so I wouldn't want it.

    To me a SUV has the worst parts of a car and a truck. Not my thing.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,356
    "...the 370Z, Lancer Evo and WRX STi..."

    Ha ha, talk about different lifestyles. You're looking at those cars and I'm drooling over a 1992 Achieva! I supose I'll have to live through you for the time being.

    Speaking of the Lancer Evo, did you see this week's Top Gear show? They race the Evo against a couple of skiers down a mountain in 8 feet of snow. The driver could barely stop giggling long enough to say "I'm in love!"

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,356
    "...brain dead masses...ignore all scheduled maintainance..."

    Exactly! And BMWs would tend to be leased by the posers who want the flash but don't want to spend the cash to service "somebody else's" car.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    has anyone else noticed that the 'smart shoppers' link to this discussion has gone away?
    I got here by checking my 'recent posts'.
    stock up on bottled water and pop tarts(no expiration date).
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,356
    "...the 'smart shoppers' link to this discussion has gone away..."

    I just came back in through that link and it was there for me. I also was able to use the 'search forums' feature to get here.

    Or maybe you're talking about something that's over my head.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Sorry, you will have to do your own research....or just take it on faith !!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    I believe that the M cars still have conventional tires- and you can always replace the run-flats with conventional rubber as well- I plan to.

    I don't think there is a well in the trunk for a spare. My roof sure wouldn't fit in the trunk if there was a spare in there and if the roof was up, I would have about 4 cubic feet of space if there was a spare in there.

    Besides, although there are disadvantages, I think the advantages are on the side of run flats. And, they do probably give a little harsher ride, but that isn't too noticable for most people. Still better than trying to change a flat on the highway side of a 70 mph highway.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    If you had a Ford or GM, the car can email you everything about itself every month.
    How is that for technology?


    I get enough emails without my car sending me more....unless they are jokes!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    edited December 2010
    Just turned in our leased 2007 Accord. After four years it only had 22,000 miles.

    In that time, it had four oil changes,


    Most people would tell you to change the oil at least once every 6 months, even with low mileage. Short trips with low mileage can lead to that sludge problem you were talking about. Once a year seems to be stretching it a bit. Would you have changed it more often if you owned it?
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • 604doc604doc Member Posts: 182
    Aren't the run flat tires mounted on special rims? I heard somewhere that if you wanted to get rid of the run flats, you had to buy new wheels as well as tires.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yeah, there was indeed no link for the shopping forum. Iused the search link to get in here.

    Where the heck is Richard? I ahven't been in here at the same time as him since before Thanksgiving.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    maybe i should log out and log back in again.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    if BMW could do that, it would be greatest thing ever.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    he posted yesterday. If anyone has his email, they can let him know about the back door of the back door.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    I heard somewhere that if you wanted to get rid of the run flats, you had to buy new wheels as well as tires.

    I wouldn't bet on it but I believe the rims are exactly the same for RFTs as for regular tires.

    What you may have heard was that you shouldn't remove RFTs from the rims because you will ruin the sidewalls...so they should be left mounted on rims.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Meant to mention this earlier.

    In the loaner Accord, next to the power outlet formerly known as a cigarette lighter is a little covered box that when you open it looks all the world like an ashtray except for the fact that on the lip nearest you are the words "not an ashtray." It turns out to be rubber lined so I guess a hot ash wouldn't be such a good idea.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    back in the 80's through the 90's I new a few people that were as brand loyal to BMW as driver is.They pretty much said the same things he does now. They currently drive Buicks. So lets wait 15 years or so and lets see if Driver starts talking about his Buick. ;)

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    If they could have afforded the car in the first place, they wouldn't have leased it, so they certainly aren't going to maintain it properly.

    I have known people who bought new cars every year or so skimp on the maintence. So I don't think it is as much not an issue of cost but one of not being around when the lack of maintence causes problems.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,625
    edited December 2010
    . . .I don't think it is as much not an issue of cost but one of not being around when the lack of maintence causes problems.

    Well, I think it's three things:

    1) The discipline to do appropriate maintenance on a vehicle (or to do many other things) doesn't appear to me to be present, in any significant measure, in today's society, which is where my comment regarding turn signals came from. If you can't be bothered to use turn signals, to be considerate of those driving (or riding a bicycle or walking) around you, how likely are you to maintain a vehicle you're going to pass on to someone you don't even know? This is to your point that people who cause the issues won't be around when the effects are felt, likely years and tens of thousands of miles later.

    2) Sheer ignorance -- many people driving today appear to be hard-pressed to understand how a car works, in even the most basic way. Changing oil may as well be reading Sanskrit, especially if all you care about is filling the thing with fuel, making the monthly payment, and driving it until the lease expires.

    3) BMW's own dumbing-down of maintenance. Before the "free" maintenance was included in the price of the car, many fluids were scheduled to be changed on a regular basis (brake, coolant, diff, trans). Not so much anymore, and here we are.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    well waxed

    You can say that again :P
  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    I am not really that loyal or believe BMWs are the be all and end all.

    Really dude? Now you're just embarrassing yourself. :sick:
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Having to do some catch up reading, to the tune of about 180 messages, I got to see several of driver100 comments all in one sitting.

    And I have to make some comments.

    -'BMW maintenance is in their computers. And a lease car turned in without entries in the computer would incur extra charges.....' I know there isn't a dipstick, but I bet there is a drain plug and a filler hole for the oil. How is BMW going to know about oil/filter changes done in a driveway, an independent mechanics, or at the local quick-lube? My Corvette's tranny is in the rear of the car and doesn't have a dipstick. But it has a drain plug and a fill plug. And in the back of my owners manual, under specifications, it tells how many quarts of tranny fluid it takes when drained. Places other than a BMW dealership can service the car.

    -'In 2007 a run flat cost $1,500. Now cost about $300....' I can just hear the finance man telling you this when you bought the car, just before he offered the road hazard warranty to you. And you appear to have believed him. When I got my new 2007 Corvette, with runflats, I checked on the price of new ones. The rear, the larger ones, went for about $425 each for OEM Goodyear replacements. The price now is about the same, they sure haven't come down any, probably now cost more. And I know you are talking Canadian and I am talking US dollars, but the difference doesn't cover these amounts.

    -'Leave runflats on the rim, you will ruin them if they are not mounted.....' This would make it pretty tough to stock new ones in the warehouse, wouldn't it? I think if you buy a new one, it's not going to come on a wheel. Stocking all combinations of wheels and sizes would really, really be tough.

    More and more, when reading your comments, I say 'Huh?' to myself.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    "not an ashtray." It turns out to be rubber lined

    We have to ask isell what the heck it is. From the sounds of it maybe it is a spitoon!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    80's through the 90's I new a few people that were as brand loyal to BMW as driver is.They pretty much said the same things he does now. They currently drive Buicks

    I can't think of one case where I have heard of that happening. If I do trade in a BMW for a Buick I might as well just tell them to put a set of wheels on my casket, it would give me the same amount of driving pleasure.

    (and I have rented a Buick a few years ago)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,598
    edited December 2010
    I am not really that loyal or believe BMWs are the be all and end all.
    Really dude? Now you're just embarrassing yourself
    .

    So, what do you drive verdugo?

    I do like my BMW but I like lots of other cars too. Most people like the car they drive otherwise they would have bought something else.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I can't think of one case where I have heard of that happening.

    One of the ones i know of (maybe you can count this as two) is my sister and her husband who were very much the BMW fanatics up to this century are now driving Buicks. I know a few others that while not be driving Buicks but they are no longer driving BMW's. Almost to a person they all stated that while nice the BMW is not worth the extra price.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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