Stories from the Sales Frontlines

thenebean

i wanna see what happens when someone hits a pothole with THOSE things! man, i have trouble enough with 17" rims on my car getting dinged up by potholes...i couldn't imagine!

-thene

michaellno

Wait until all those soccer moms have to replace the tires on their XL-sized SUV with the 20" or 22" wheels. They're gonna get a big shock!

Just replaced the tires on my wife's VUE last week - 17". Cost was over $600 after taxes and fees; and that's after I negotiated a discount!

graphicguy

I never begrudge anyone who can afford to buy anything they want, for any reason. But, "jeez-louise"...if you aren't hauling stuff/people, or towing stuff, spending $50K..$60K...$70K...with another $3K-$4K-$5K in wheels/tires (which, no doubt, adversely affects the handling dynamics of the vehicle) just makes no sense to me.

I'll just assume that most of these folks just have their priorities different than mine. Forget a house, kids college tuition, retirement. Get that TRUCK....everything else be damned.

Fact is, down by my dock, most people use these vehicles to tow their boat and associated things that go with it. In the 'burbs, no one is hauling/towing anything in them. Most times, they are driving empty.

While I haven't lived in CA for awhile, I saw the same thing happen when I lived in the Bay Area. People complained about housing prices, but had no qualms, at all, about spending mega-bucks for the major set of wheels they had tied up in their garage (a depreciating asset, no less).

For $50K, you can get an awful lot of nice vehicles....not trucks (thinking BMWs, MBs, Audis....heck...for that kind of money you can get a Lotus...even a 'vette convertible). Those will outperform, handle worlds better, get better MPG than any large sized SUV I care to think about.

My priorities are definitely screwed up.

jlawrence01

Agree with you on those tires. Even the smaller wheels on the RX are pretty expensive tires.

jlawrence01

Graphic,

C'mon, isn't two $600 car payments and scrambling to make your house payment the American dream.

I must admit that one of the reasons I hate to head home for the holidays is listening to all the relatives who live beyond their means compaining about how hard it is to get by these days.

Unfortunately, I remember their parents raising more children in a 4 room house (not bedrooms, ROOMS) with one car and the Queen City Metro and NEVER complaining about how tough life was.

You can get a pretty nice car for $20-30k.

jmonroe

For $50K, you can get an awful lot of nice vehicles....not trucks (thinking BMWs, MBs, Audis....heck...for that kind of money you can get a Lotus...even a 'vette convertible).

Yep..... but they ain't TRUCKS.

My priorities are definitely screwed up.

Mine to and they're being reinforced by the people I hang out with on these forums. I'm thinking about cancelling my subscription here so I can get in step with the REAL WORLD.

jmonroe

graphicguy

j....saw a post from someone a week or so ago stating they wanted to trade in their 1 year old $30K vehicle for a new $60K vehicle. The person had to have a co-signer for either the $30K vehicle or the $60K vehicle (can't recall now) and was looking for some guidance. You already know the outcome of that thread.

This is the part that I don't understand. Some of us "oldsters" remember when, as you point out, the bus was (and still is, for many) a primary mode of transportation. When I worked downtown, I actually preferred the Queen City Metro over fighting traffic every day. Didn't hurt my pride in the least. Matter of fact, I still use their busses to go from the 'burbs to downtown whenever there's a large event I want to get to in the city. It's just so much easier (and cheaper once you consider gas and parking charges).

For $20K-$25-$30K, you can get a mighty fine vehicle, of any configuration.....A Camry, an Accord, a Civic, a Martix/Vibe, an Element, an Escape (both hybrid and gas version), an F-150, a Silverado, a Pilot, a Mustang, a RAV4, any Hyundai (short of an Azera), an Imapala, a Malibu, a Ford 500, a Ford Fusion, a Pontiac G6...I could go on and on, but there's plenty to choose from to fit any person's needs.

They may or may not have leather, fancy stereos or wheels, and a NAV system, but I'd say most, if not all, will have A/C, power windows/locks, automatic, all the current safety equipment, etc. What's not to like?

My son and I have this conversation a lot. He's making plans on what he's going to buy when he graduates from college next year. I told him to get a job, drive his Hyundai into the ground (not knowing that I MIGHT get him a car for graduation), set up his savings account for property and retirement....and then think about a vehicle.

Doesn't work that way from what I'm hearing, though. I blame myself. I have not set the best example. In recent years, I've been in and out of cars more often than I've put up Christmas lights. He thinks I'm normal and that what I do just sort of "happens" with no planning involved.

Rant over (for now)!

jmonroe

He thinks I'm normal...

Hmmmm...... Try this:

Change schools and send him back for another year. He'll figure it out.

Sorry, 'graph', but I couldn't pass this up even if it was a little out of context.

jmonroe

boomchek

All the best to you and your mother. I hope everything works out for the best. My dad was diagnosed with leukemia a year ago (at age 50). He went through treatments and mild chemo, and even though it was really hard on his body :sick: , he made it through and is now as healthy as if he never had any cancer. :shades:

So don't give up as miracles happen.

jlawrence01

saw a post from someone a week or so ago stating they wanted to trade in their 1 year old $30K vehicle for a new $60K vehicle.

I started to reply to it ... and then deleted. Thought that it might not be a "sincere" post.

I have come close twice to buying a new car ... but then I would have to retract all the lectures to the nephews and nieces over the years about buying used. Besides MY car is a favorite as it is the only car in the family where the kids can sit up front as I don't have passenger side airbags.

I drive a lot of new cars and it really doesn't excite me that much anymore.

lilengineerboy

Our goal is to be as close to debt free as I can be. The car note we currently have is at such a low interest rate its not in my best interest to pay off early. I also in hindsight put too much down, but I wanted a low payment and to never have to worry about being upside-down on the loan.
For just a lil north of 20k, we found an AWD wagon with power this that and the next thing, alloys, ABS, 50 million air bags, a decent stereo and ~30 mpg highway with its 5spd manual transmission (what she wanted). The only thing I miss is a sunroof (which is a lux item anyway blah blah, still have to have some fun).
I am trying to pay cash for the next ride, unless financing is very attractive.

lilengineerboy

I have come close twice to buying a new car ... but then I would have to retract all the lectures to the nephews and nieces over the years about buying used.

I have had very good luck with used cars. Buying the last one new made me very nervous. I'm pretty sure the next one will be used at this point. Prior to that, we have been taking everyone's 10-15 year old hand-me-downs.

phinneas519

Out of curiousity, what was the wagon in question (my guess is a Passat, maybe)?

jmonroe

Who says we have to drive a new vehicle every two years??

Most of the people you see at the grocery store and the mall.

I learned long ago that there is such a thing as 'life after car payments'.

It's tough but it can be done.

jmonroe

graphicguy

I learned long ago that there is such a thing as 'life after car payments'.

It's tough but it can be done.

This gets back to the whole idea of folks who believe that just because someone will loan a person money to buy a car, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Another quick story, I had a former business colleague who just had to have a Benz about 10 years ago. Not just any Benz, either. It had to be an S-Class. Boy, was he proud of that car. Just so happens this person was in sales. Signed a big deal and got one big commission check. While he put a big down payment on the car, he still financed quite a bit. His car payment exceeded his house payment.

As these things go, there were no more "big deals" coming down the pike. His income leveled off. After about 1 year of payments, he decided he couldn't afford the Benz anymore. Tried to trade it, but even with the big down payment, was still considerably upside down. No dealer would even touch a deal with him to trade down....and he tried mightily. Cash got real tight. He was maxing out credit cards to make payments on another. Maxed out his borrowing capacity on the equity in his house. It got to the point where he had to make a decision on whether it was more important to keep his house or his car. That's a no brainer. Finally, after a time, he found a dealer to roll over some massive negative equity from the Benz into an Accord. The circle started again. He couldn't get out of the Accord, but eventually couldn't afford the payments on it, either (with the negative equity rolled over). It ended up being repossessed....and all the associated fees that are heaped on a repo on top of the debt.

Long and short of it, this guy went spriralling downwards. His wages were being garnished. He ended up being fired (unfortunately, I was the person who had to fire him) because he spent so much time beating back the creditors, he started to neglect his job.

Moral of the story, this whole debacle started with that Benz, which he could afford for a few months, but not the subsequent months.

About a year ago, I ran into him. What was once a young promising professional, I found a pretty beaten man in his place. He was working a couple of lower paying jobs, still trying to keep it together. He begged me for his old job back. I just didn't have anything for him. Besides, we do credit checks (along with drug and psych tests) for all prospective employees. We wouldn't have hired him based on his credit history (the thinking here goes along the lines that if an employee can't keep his finances straight, he/she can't be responsible enough to work for us).

As someone else pointed out, he was a $30,000/year millionaire.

It could be a Benz....or a $50K Tahoe....or even a $40K Lexus. For many, the same thing could happen on a $25K or $30K car. The results would be the same, if you aren't cognizant of the repurcussions of getting that "got to have" vehicle.

graphicguy

For those of you who have gone through this, GM states in their warranty booklets that you have to file a claim with the BBB for any unresolved issues with GM vehicles under warranty. I've done that (along with talking to Cadillac Customer Service and sending a letter to Cadillac outlining the issues with the STS).

BBB states that they will resolve the issues within 40 days. What they don't state is what sort of resolutions they offer. Do they arrange for the car to be bought back? Do they mediate some sort of "partial" payment for "non-compliance" for the vehicle in question? Or do they just act as a sounding board for customer complaints, with no real power to help?

Since GM chooses to go through BBB, are their decisions binding?

My hope is that I don't have to hire a lawyer to muddle through this.

qbrozen

wow. harsh story about your coworker, graphic. sure makes one think about what they are getting into.

lilengineerboy, I envy you. I have no idea how to be debt-free. Given the cost of homes where I live, I don't know how its possible. Hopefully, someday, but not anytime soon, that's for sure. Then there is the dilemma of commuting. No viable public transportation system plus the fact that, just to keep the home cost as low as possible, I have to commute about 20-25k miles per year means I need a reliable and comfortable vehicle.

At least I have the sense not to splurge on an S-class.

skierx420

I sell many different kinds of cars. Yet i grapple with the thought of spending more than $3K for a well used SUV (I have a thing for old RamChargers and Jeep Cherokees) My current RamCharger is an 89 and I have lovingly maintained it 140K mi from 100k when I bought it. I think I am missing a few sales because I cannot connect with the guy that wants to have a $400 to $500 lease payment. I can connect to the guy that makes the same money as me and then buries themselves in a car payment. I think sometimes that I miss a few sales because we rarely stock "well equiped vehicles" and instead stock "nicely equiped vehicles." I am I wrong? Would I have a better chance at selling the "well equipped" stuff if I took the plunge myself and buried myslef in a new one like that? By the way I have the most fun selling a $500 back row beauty for a mini than getting beat over the head for a brand new $40K SUV.

lilengineerboy

I totally understand. I worry a lot about money so debt gives me a stomach ache which makes me pretty conservative with spending. Being in debt for the house doesn't bother me as much for some reason, partially because the house payment isn't that much more than the rent used to be (if I had realized this earlier, I probably would've bought a house sooner).
I know what you mean about areas being expensive. We want to move back to where our parents live, but unfortunately that is in the top 10 most expensive place to buy a house in the US. Even getting close will be 2x the cost of our house now, and then I will be in a similar commuting situation.

madmanmoo

Skier, you're a salesman. Your job is to find out what your customer wants and put them in it. It isn't about what you want. Sell! Don't overthink the process and throw away sales.

-Moo

madmanmoo

GG, I think you're supposed to hire a lawyer. Lemon law proceedings are complicated and extremely irritating.

Did you say you were in Colorado? If so, I'll look up the specific lemon laws in your state and report back.

-Moo

graphicguy

q....we hear it in here, time and time, again. One's life circumstances have changed, the need for another vehicle compels someone to look at something that may not make any sense, financially.

The guy I was referring to justified his purchase of the Benz by stating his customers expected him to be successful....that he needed a "nice" vehicle to haul clients around....and multitudes of other reasons. I even remember telling him that if he was hell bent on "making a statement", that he could buy a Lincoln for half the cost of the Benz, and achieve the same goal. He "poo-pooed" that idea, immediately.

I still remember the conversations we had when he brought the new Benz to the office to show everyone. I was happy for him that he was flush with cash from a big commission check. I was in my 30s at the time. He was in his late 20s. I remember telling him, half kidding, half seriously, he had better hope that those big checks keep rolling in....and that he had to work twice as hard to stay at the income level it was going to take to keep him behind the wheel of that Benz.

He kind of laughed those conversations off. I remember him telling me that the Benz was his statement that "he had arrived".

I was privy to what his income level was before the "big sale". Knowing how those "flush" with money times usually are washed away with those "down" times. I urged him to put, at least some of that money, into a "rainy day" fund. I was part Father and part Big Brother (as well as his boss). He was certain that the good times would keep rolling.

For a guy in his 20s, he was out earning most everyone he knew. He was bound and determined to show how he was out earning his peers....with the Benz.

Before that time, he was a hard, smart worker. Between his salary and commissions, he was making good money, even without the huge commission checks. I liked him both personally and professionally. He had everything going for him.

Then, the "gotta have vehicle" ended up being his undoing. He became an untrusting, dark person....sometimes combative, when things began to unravel. We spent many an hour in my office after the work day, trying to figure out how to undo the mistake with the least amount of damage.

I took it personally that I couldn't help. I felt like I let him down. When we had the "it's time to part ways" conversation, I told him as much.

While this is an extreme example, we've all seen the same scenario played out again and again, only to different levels of futility.

lemko

A few people who messed-up their credit ended up being let go at my place. I work with the Department of Defense and people with spotty credit are considered security risks. Who knows who will get desperate and sell information to the Chinese or Al Qaeda?

graphicguy

Moo....I'm in OH. I'm going strictly by the directions in the Cadillac warranty booklet as to how to lodge complaints.

Paraphrasing here, but the steps are...

1) Talk to dealer management about my concerns....I've spoken (and written) not only to dealership management, but also to the dealership owner. I've done the same with two other Cadillac dealership service depts, with no resolution.
2) contact Cadillac Customer Service....I've done that. They did little more than to refer me back to the dealership.
3) Contact the BBB Autoline Program....which I've done. It's stated that they are an "out of court" resource to settle automotive disputes. They also stated that it's free of charge and the my case will be heard within 40 days. If I don't agree with their the decision they hand down, I can reject it and proceed with "other" avenues available to me.

I just finished filing with the BBB. Guess I'm waiting the 40 days to see what they say before I explore "other" avenues. That's going to be the frustrating part.

My guess is Cadillac is going to ask me to take it to the dealer one more time. I don't know what 3 different dealers, on several separate occasions are going to do differently.

I guess I just park the car at the dealership for 30-days (after the 40 days BBB will take) and make it a legal issue, to be resolved sometime in February or March (don't know how long it takes to get it on the court docket, after that).

lemko

If I were a client, that Benz would've turned me off. I'd have referred to the young sales professional in term that can't be used in polite company. If he had to have a nice car for clients, a Buick would've been sufficient in my book. The only way I'd have bought the S-Class is if the commission check was so massive I could've paid for it all at once. Shoot, I bet he could've bought a new Park Avenue outright with the check he did receive.

[Deleted User]

While you're probably right lemko, I doubt there are many 20 or 30 year olds out there who would have Buick as their first, second or third choice of make for a new car. :P

plekto

Yet we could have avoided this by buying a classic Benz for $10-$15K. This says class and also good level-headed thinking. Ie - I want the best, I could drive anything, but I love classics and drive this. Zero bling, zero being pretentious. Exactly what you want as a salesman.(and also to impress an awful lot of women it turns out)

I've been there and seen others who've gone for bling and payments and htose who went for the classic - be it a Benz or an old mint Mustang or whatever. The classics lose less value(or gain in most cases), are more fun to drive, and impress clients more.

Today that would be something like a mid to early-90s S class without the V8 engine.(420SEL or simmilar - old enough to look "older") Superb cars and super-easy to sell if you get on on your lot, reguardless of age. Also great to take a client in. They'll remember riding in a cool car about the same as the gold rims and aftershave(just in different ways - lol)

P.S. Count me in that small group - a 2005 Lucerne CXS next fall is in my top 5 list. Black, of course.

graphicguy

lemko....I remember the commission being relatively big (10 years ago)....about $16K-$17K, before taxes. Can't remember what the "after taxes" check was for, but let's assume 30% off the top for taxes. That puts the final check somewhere in the $11K-$12K range, which he used for a down payment.

But, the S Class cost somewhere north of $60K 10 years ago, IIRC (maybe more than that as it was the S500, I believe). Add taxes to that and the amount financed would ave been somewhere in the neighborhood of $50K-$55K, probably.

I do remember that he went from having a car that was paid off, no payment (a nice Toyota Avalon) to a car that cost $100 more/mo. than his house payment.

skierx420

What does having an old rusting RamCharger say about me? Now having said that consider this, most of my best customers come in and buy a new vehicle on a regular basis. BUT they always come in their run around car or beater pick-up. Out here most of my customers have an older Le Sabre with 150K mi and a dent, or an older pickup truck with rust more engine changes and body work than allowable by damage disclosure laws on title transfers. AND then come in to the store wearing dirty jeans and stained work shirts and write a check for a $42,000 or more diesel truck. I hope it says I'm just like you. You should buy from me because we are out to help each other. Etc. Etc. The reason I bring this up is because I recently had a large dealership sales manager tell me that whay you drive as you personal vehicle will help you sell the other vehicles. If you don't beleive in the product enought to buy it yourself you can't be efective in selling it.

jasmith52

What does having an old rusting RamCharger say about me?

It says that you are practical and feel no need to waste $42k on a new car that will be worth $15k in three years.

Ignore the manager, and drive what you feel like.

corvette

I think "its_brentwood" was talking about an auto finance company that did 10-year notes for exotics... For people who have "earned" a Ferarri, just not the money to pay for it...

I still remember looking at a used Passat at a Saturn dealer. The salesman asked me, "what kind of payment are you looking for?" I replied that I would probably pay cash. After a few more sentences of conversation, he asked me again, "So, what kind of payment are you looking for?" Arrrrrgh!

tazereli

I would have told him "how about 1 payment for xx,xxx?" the price you would offer for the car.

jlawrence01

I would have told him "how about 1 payment for xx,xxx?"

Good response. I will have to remember that one.

The only thing more depressing than that to a salesman is when I tell them that a vehicle is a fleet purchase.

qbrozen

OH, you just reminded me. i wish I had this on hand for just this conversation! Anyway, I like to pick up the free car shopping magazines from the grocery store or wherever. Makes for good bathroom reading. My wife knows this, so she brought me home this one particular one that is higher end stuff.

There was an ad from a dealership that shows just monthly payments. The fine print at the bottom was just astonishing to me. Things like "based on 8.9% for 144 months!" And I believe a few even longer than that. I will have to post the details when I have it in front of me.

thenebean

my dad is a contractor and builds houses for a living. while many people want to have nice big trucks that look professional, my dad usually buys a small cheap pickup. his logic? how can i convince people to pay more money for a house if im driving a really nice, expensive truck? It will look like i make TOO much off of people! if i drive a cheap truck, they'll think its a bargain, because if he was making more, he'd SURELY have a nicer truck, right?

my dad is a smart guy i think

-thene

jasmith52

I think "its_brentwood" was talking about an auto finance company that did 10-year notes for exotics... For people who have "earned" a Ferarri, just not the money to pay for it...

Woodside credit does loans for cars with 12 year notes

here's a link

link title

So if you can get that Neon for $5k out the door the monthly payment would only be around $52 a month with nothing down. Or you could get that $100k Fararri for just over $1k a month with nothing down.

- Your choice

You have earned it !

Kirstie_H

Well, I've certainly earned a $52/month Neon. That's just how hard I've toiled, and I am worth every penny

qbrozen

believe it or not, I see a use there.

Since they finance classic cars, I could see someone using it to make money. Buy that classic car on payments and sell it for a big profit to the overbidders at BJ in a year or 2.

Obviously a tricky business and nothing I would advocate ... just pointing out the possibility.

boomchek

Would auctions like BJ allow cars that are not paid in full, or have liens on them? I heard they do very thorough checks on everything that rolls through. :confuse:

corvette

And, they do refinancing, too, so if you've built up some equity and decide to add some bling to your ride, you can just take out a car-improvement loan...

lilengineerboy

I didn't mean to sound holier than thou with the anti-debt thing at all, and like I said, I'm not debt free either. I think a lot of people are put in positions where they can't avoid debt and/or they are doing the best they can to manage it. Some people are totally cool with debt and its part of the way they manage money and lifestyle.
I don't think my approach is the best or anything, it just has the least damaging effect on my digestive system and is one less thing I can stress myself out over.

gogiboy

"my dad is a smart guy i think"

Thene--

I agree. My dad is much like yours although he isn't a builder. He does park in a covered lot where the majority of vehicles are new or nearly new Mercedes. BMW, Lexus, Infinity, even the occasional exotic. Up until he bought his Corolla 3-4 years ago he was driving a 12 year old Dodge Shadow.

Recently my wife and I bought a new house. Our builder had a new or nearly-new fully equipped Dodge Ram. Another builder (partner?) in our neighborhood, who happens to live next door, drives a mid-late 90s Ford Ranger. Guess who puts the extra love and attention into his houses? In hindsight I wish he would have built our house.

Our realtor was driving a recent vintage Jaguar. She is a successful independent businesswoman and is married to a local attorney. At the closing for our previous house she showed up in a nearly new Mercedes. I inquired whether she had traded "up". Nope, the Jaguar was in the shop again and the Merc. was her loaner. I'd have been just as impressed if she drove an Accord or Camry, but others, perhaps, feel differently. I'm always baffled at what passes for necessary business practice.

Incidentally, I recently saw her driving in my neighborhood and she still has the Jag...for now.

Gogiboy

cdnpinhead

you "DESERVE" it. Ever notice how often that phrase shows up in ads?

You probably don't need it, possibly can't afford it, may well not have seen any merit to having it, but. . .you "DESERVE" it, so go ahead.

BE a consumer!

As opposed to a spoilsport like myself, who prefers buying vehicles & keeping them well beyond 100K miles. I may not be supporting the economy, but I continue to enjoy good vehicles at a relatively low cost per mile/day.

YMMV.

thenebean

there is too much emphasis on image these days. i don't know how many people i've seen driving a big fancy expensive car, pull into their driveway of their house, and see they live in a hole. its unbelieveable sometimes to fathom!

now don't get me wrong, i love cars! if i could afford to have a new car every year, i'd love it. but i know its a poor investment, and that i'll just have to settle for looking at the pretty shiny cars in magazines and at car shows instead. someday, i will get a nice fancy car that i've always wanted, but i will never put my financial situation at risk to do so.

one of the things my smart dad taught me! keeping track of your money is extremely extremely important!

-thene

robr2

how can i convince people to pay more money for a house if im driving a really nice, expensive truck? It will look like i make TOO much off of people! if i drive a cheap truck, they'll think its a bargain, because if he was making more, he'd SURELY have a nicer truck, right?

MB's market research showed them the exact same thing regarding the Sprinter work van. Plumbers, locksmiths, HVAC, florists didn't like the 3 pointed star on it fearing it would scare customers. Hence, it's being sold as a Dodge or Freightliner.

I had a GC pull up to my house in an H2 a couple of years ago. I liked the guy but saw in his quote why he drove an H2.

thenebean

its amazing what people think will impress others, when in reality, its really a turnoff...

mac24

That's certainly true when applied to the mode of dress of the salesmen in some of the dealerships around here. It must be a peer group thing, white shirt and black pants, slicked hair, heavy application of aftershave/cologne, lots of gold, and of course a 'Rolex' worn with a very loose strap.

Is there a school of car salesmanship that teaches you can sell more cars by dressing this way?

badgerpaul

When I was a kid my dad, who had done well for himself and could easily afford it, always wanted a Cadillac. But since he was a small businessman he would never get one fearing that his customers would perceive him as too successful and take their business elsewhere.

boomchek

There's car sales schools around, but that wasn't in my curriculum. :shades:

gasman1

Managers should also be aware that many employees notice what they drive. Drive a car that cost more than they make in a year (or two) and some may feel grief towards you (or what they make). I agree with your and Bean. Both of your Dads' were smart cookies.