Stories from the Sales Frontlines

graphicguy

j....Thomson is the dealeship on Gilbert. That's where my Mother bought the car. Nice people....they seem willing to help, but as jmonroe said, you have to be willing to fix the issue before you can actually fix it. I don't know what the service manual states, but I would imagine it's something along the lines of "car won't turnover, check alternator....replace battery". Probably, that's all GM will pay them to do.

Kind of wearing blinders when the obvious issue isn't really being addressed.

There are some other issues with the features of the car that I'm sure my Mother never used, but I do.....like bluetooth not working, voice recognition being worthless, NAV system locking up and constantly having to reboot, and some other things.

Their GM is the guy who contacted me about the "trade assist" Cadillac is wanting to do. Seems to be a very nice fellow and genuinely concerned that we're happy (so far, we're not).

Looked at an SRX this weekend. Nice vehicles. The folks at Edmunds seem to like it, too. I'll see what places like C&D think of them. Also looked at '07 STS's....really no differences compared to my Mother's STS except for very minor trim variations.

graphicguy

lil....I'm certain it's just a matter of popping a few clips and getting a few screws out. That said, I've seen cars with all the electrical wiring "hanging out" with the dash removed. It's not something I'd like to see done to my cars (or my families' cars).

My faith that everything get put back together the way it's supposed to be isn't high. I know IT CAN be done, though.

corvette

Does "trade assist" mean they'll give you any Cadillac without any money out of your pocket? Or one only up to the original MSRP of the STS? Because if they'd give you any Cadillac, I'd tell them your mother would like an XLR-V (should be easy to resell)...

british_rover

The vehicles have to be equal or nearly equal in MSRP other wise they will want more money.

We did a trade assist not long ago where they guy had a standard Range Rover and the vehicle he got in the trade assist was a Supercharged Range Rover. That is about a 15,000 dollar increase in MSRP and he had to give us the differance in MSRP.

imidazol97

I just can't believe the service manager has no way of troubleshooting or diagnosing the problem. I know with my long-standing service manager at a small town Buick (GMC, Chev, Pontiac) deal he calls many other up-to-date managers to ask and to share what they've found on other cars. I also believe there's a forum for them also within GM's service area--not sure where I read that. I can't believe that's not happened with any other STS.

graphicguy

corvette....it's my understanding that the "trade assist" is for similarly priced vehicles. If I thought for a second, I could turn that regular STS into an STS-V, I'd be all over it.

That ain't going to happen without $$$$ out of my pocket, though.

imi....that's the most frustrating part of this. All I've recieved from 3 different dealer service depts is either "denial" that any issues exist, or that they've instituted the "fixes" per Cadillac's service policies.

Guess they'd rather take a "hit" in taking back a car than actually fixing what's already on the road.

british_rover

How about a CTS-V? Aren't they about the same price?

tcp2

When a problem crops up on a warranty vehicle, there is a troubleshooting guide to follow. The dealership and the "technician" will only get paid what the rate is for that problem, "in the book"(maybe 1/2 hour or such). The book says to replace the battery and the dealer/tech will get paid for their 1/2 hour only. Why do more unless you can get someone to pay for the time. Who should eat the cost of the time? Dealer? Cadillac? Owner? It only gets done when the issue blows up for them, maybe like now or before it gets resold again, or maybe it'll get sold as-is and the new owner will drive it more often?

dino001

Then there is some major problem with the manual. My thought is that the protocol would be: if... do ... . If that doesn't help, proceed to..., then to ..., and then to... . It looks they just got stuck on the first line, or perhaps there are no more lines in the protocol.

imidazol97

But if it doesn't work, they just kept doing what doesn't work. They have a second step for troubleshooting.

Sounds like politicians, doesn't it.

jmonroe

Who should eat the cost of the time? Dealer? Cadillac? Owner?

That's a very easy question to answer; Cadillac !!!

They built it, why should anybody else be responsible for the cost of correcting the problem? Either by design or fabrication.

Next question.

jmonroe

dino001

Especially that in the purchase contract they guaranteed it will work properly for at least three years or 36K miles. It is called "warranty" :lemon: .

skierx420

We have a similar problem with a used lot car now and again. We recently had a Pacifica that had a birthday. (High end car in a low end town) It seemed to have all of the same symptoms that you have described. We finally responded by removing the IOD fuse after we determined that there was a loose ground wire. We left the IOD fuse out to insure that we had starting power after this car has sat way to long between washings. Wish I could help with your caddy. The XLR is a great car, if i bought cadilacs I'd get that one.

graphicguy

I think they try to move warranty work in and out of the shop as quickly as possible. I also think they go the path of least resistance when it comes to fixing something.

If the manual states the fix should take 30 minutes, the dealership isn't going to want to pay a tech for 8 hours to fix the problem....since Cadillac is only going to reimburse them for 30 minutes of work.

ON the replacement side, I don't know what a CTS-V costs (that's the one with the 'vette engine in it, right?). These "hot" V versions are limited production, right? Don't know what demand for those would be. I certianly don't see many of them around.....hardly any, as a matter of fact. I thought I read somewhere that the XLR is a $70K car? That's out of the ballpark.

Besides, I'm viewing this as a temporary situation. I want to be in and out of the replacement as quickly as possible. I'm looking to replace the STS with something that has demand so I can move it. The quickest turn over would probably be with an SRX. I see more of those on the road than I do any other Cadillac.

I may also getting ahead of myself....Cadillac may come back and say "go pound salt....we aren't going to do anything for you".

They're supposed to get back with me with a decision by the end of the week.

cccompson

Repeatedly taking the same steps and expecting a different result has another name: insanity.

snapcracklepop

What do you think of the 2007 Range Rover's? I would love to test drive one, they look great and I have read some great info. on them. I haven't seen them on the road yet or been inside, so I would love your feedback!

snakeweasel

ON the replacement side, I don't know what a CTS-V costs (that's the one with the 'vette engine in it, right?).

The MSRP is in the low 50's (51-52 IIRC). Also you can only get them with a manual tranny.

robr2

If the manual states the fix should take 30 minutes, the dealership isn't going to want to pay a tech for 8 hours to fix the problem....since Cadillac is only going to reimburse them for 30 minutes of work.

In reality, the tech will only get paid for 30 minutes as well. The book is the book. Better techs with more experience book more than 8 hours a day.

tsgeisel

So, does the salesman lose his up when this happens?

"I had a live one. Too bad he was a drugged out fugitive."

corvette

This whole fiasco brings to mind the title of John DeLorean's book: On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors.

jmonroe

It is called "warranty"

dino,

Isn't it interesting that more time has been spent discussing this problem, here on this forum, than what Cadillac has spent trouble shooting the real cause of the problem?

So much for a warranty. This is proof that the best warranty is the one you don't have to use.

jmonroe

fenwah

I'm working on making a deal on a 2006 Cadillac that has been on a dealers lot for several months now. It's exactly what I want. I did find out that it is a demo car...has about 3000 miles on it...but I will get the full bumper to bumper warranty on it. The dealership seems extremely willing to negotiate on it as we have already gone down about $1000 from where we started.

I don't want to let them know that I have a GM Credit card just yet. It's the original plan where you can use up to $3500 (earn up to $500 a year for seven years). I have about $3200 earned on it. I can't find any information on the GM Credit Card where it says that you CAN'T use it on a demo car. Can anyone confirm this? Have you had any luck using your GM Credit Card earnings on a demo car in the past?

I would call the credit card company, but I'm so freakin' paranoid that somehow they will look me up in the system and contact the dealership...I just don't want to give anybody that info just yet.

jmonroe

The dealership seems extremely willing to negotiate on it as we have already gone down about $1000 from where we started.

This sounds like a recipe for disaster. You must do your research to find out what the car should be selling for. Just having the price move down from where it started is not the way to go about negotiating.

I can't help with the use of the GM Credit Card but if you don't go about this correctly, everything that you will be saving, by use of the card, goes out the window if you don't know what you should be paying via doing your research.

Slow down and do it right.

jmonroe

graphicguy

Fen...first, find out what invoice is and find out what incentives are available. This car should be selling for well below invoice (if you tell us the model and options, we might be able to help more).

If the car was never titled, then it's still considered a new car.

Why so paranoid about the $$$$ available on your GM credit card? The dealer won't care. That money is from GM and has no affect on what the dealership will make on the car. That's money that goes from GM to you. Call the credit card company and ask them what the rules are. Otherwise, you're shooting in the dark.

I hope I haven't diswayed anyone from Cadillac with my story. Best I can tell, these are good cars. I think my situation is unique (unfortunately, for me).

british_rover

Just another case of the, "Oh God I can't give the dealership any extra info because they will use it against me" syndrome...

The GM Card money is just like cash to the dealer it doesn't change their profit/loss side of the deal.

dino001

I guess the reasoning is "If I told them they may try to take it and still charge me as there was no money". And they might, but anybody who can read a contract and can use a calculator is able to catch it, so I agree - there is nothing to hide here as long as one really knows how much the product is really worth.

yurakm

Yes, the GM card rebates apply to demo cars. I bought a demo with 6,800 miles two years ago, and applied the $3000 rebates toward a downpayment.

The car is a 2004 Buick Regal - not Cadillac, but still a GM car.

hyundai_slsmn

dude you are seriously over analyzing this. why would your negotiating power be less if they know you have the GM card. they will eventually have to run the card to use the money anyway. relax and if you like the deal buy the car. ask to see the invoice and find out what the rebates are. find out what the per mile deduction is on a lease and use the same formula to deduct for mileage on the demo.

driveright

I think my situation is unique (unfortunately, for me).

Consumer Reports gives the 2005 Cadillac STS a solid black circle (poor) for the electric system. You are not alone.

graphicguy

driveright....not very reassuring. We'll see how this plays out. I'm supposed to hear back from Cadillac corporate customer relations by this Friday.

phinneas519

If he's really worried about it, he simply should refrain from mentioning his GM card until the deal is done but before the papers are drawn up (that'd be pretty inconsiderate, otherwise).

-So, we agree on $xx,xxx?
-Yep, sounds good.
-Great! *hand shake*
-Oh, by the way, I have a GM Card. Could we apply that to
our agreed numbers before the papers are written up?
-What, you don't trust us? Hahah, just kidding.
Seriously, though, not a problem.

carhag2000

I'm done. I can't see a scenario where I could possibly ever sell a car again. All of my working deals have dried up, all of my deliveries have been made, there is absolutely no fresh traffic. I can not possibly envision myself ever selling a car again.

british_rover

I had three seperate deals all fall apart over the past two days because of finance problems. That never happens because people buy all of these cars with cash WTH are people borrowing money to buy Land Rovers with.

GRRRRRRRR

Now I have two other cars that I could sell if I could get but I can't get them because we don't have any inventory to trade with and even if we did have any inventory there are so few cars around I would have to truck one in from the midwest.

I have contacted every Land Rover dealer from ME to VA trying to find these two cars and no one has them or if they do have them they won't give them up.

Kirstie_H

Well, in the (fictional) spirit of Mr. Costanza, at least you now have time to celebrate Festivus. Have a pint and relax.

bigdveedubgirl

Please do not even get me started. I have nothing but people who really are sociopaths that make beleive that they are buying a car but really are not but want me to do all the steps as though they are buying a car. Its sick I tell you. So to all the people out there who are JUST LOOKING or 3 months out, tread on eggshells with your friendly car salesperson or come see us January......

jipster

Ben & Jerry were wise in not puting out any Kosmo Kramer Bagel flavored ice-cream. :sick:

smittynyc

rover, would you ever consider relocating to one of the Rover dealerships closer to NYC?

Wall Street hands out its bonuses the next couple of weeks, and hordes are going to be descending upon Rover and BMW and Mercedes dealerships buying everything in sight and placing lots of orders.

I think you'd clean up in this sort of market -- you forge relationships and you'll get clients coming back at bonus time every single year.

Or is it better up where you are due to the fact that you're the only Rover dealer in town?

british_rover

I have thought about it but the only one I would even consider is Darien.

The other dealerships close to NYC are too far away from me and I don't feel like moving. Even Darien is about an hour and a half one way commute which I would not like either... :sick:

I wouldn't want to work for the other two Rover dealers in CT for reasons I won't get into.

carhag2000

want me to do all the steps as though they are buying a car. Its sick I tell you.

These folks must be sitting home bored and lonely and decide that they need some " attention". Then, heaven forbid if you dont do a full 25 minute walkaround, show them 12 different financing options and locate three different colors on 4 different states.
I once had a couple put me through all of these motions then looked up and said " Ok, thanks for your time" and got up to leave. this was after I had spent three hours with them and I got MAD. Stop! I yelled, what are you doing? I have showed you every option to buy this car along with every way to finance known to man. Why have you spent three hours here if youre not going to buy a car?
Timidly the lady looked up at me and said," Oh were not going to buy a car today, we probably wont be in the market until next June, but it was a nice saturday and we thought we would come out."

ARRRGGGHHHHHHH!

michaellno

This past weekend my wife, sister-in-law and I went away for the weekend, about 200 miles from home. The ladies had some time set aside for a trip to the spa, and a Volvo dealer was just down the street, so....

Yes, this was a Saturday afternoon (around 3PM), but the dealership is pretty small and there was no traffic. Was out front looking at what was available when I was approached by the saleslady. I told her I was just killing time and was not in the market at all for a new (or used) car.

She practically begged me to take a test drive of anything, just to get her out of the dealership for a while. I finally caved in and took a short test drive of a new '07 V50 T5 AWD. Sweet car, but with an MSRP of $36K, way out of my budget.

She then tried to steer me towards the two '06 S40 T5 AWD that they had - one was white, the other silver. She told me that she could get the prices of these "into the 20's". I again declined.

graphicguy

BR....maybe it's time to send out a "mailer" to the Wall Street people to come visit....you'd make it worth their while. Get you some of that "bonus" they've got coming.

smittynyc

Unfortunately, these guys can't spend the bonus soon enough. A car ride / helicopter trip up to the Hartford area's probably out of the question for a lot of them.

In fact, the big Manhattan BMW dealership, which is located on the far west side near 57th Street, has opened a satellite showroom on Wall Street, which is so ridiculous a proposition that I can't adequately describe it (the concept of a car dealership on Wall Street).

hyundai_slsmn

are the people "Oh we're looking to buy around summer time" when theres still snow on the ground. "Great come back in the summer" hand a card and leave

corvette

I see both sides of the argument here... I have no desire to waste a salesperson's time, but I also am a car nut and want to see (and sometimes drive) things that interest me. I don't ask for a test drive if the dealership is busy. I do keep the salesperson's card if they are civil to me. I may or may not end up cross shopping cars in completely different classes, and I may or may not buy anything at all (see thread, Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous), but if I return to the dealership, I'll ask for that salesperson, if they're still working there.

I'd be the first person to go to one of those "auto buffet" test-drive extravaganzas that manufacturers sometimes host, if any were offered in my area.

kyfdx

The BMW Store in Cincinnati has an excellent caterer!!

marsha7

opinions on this...no salesperson wants to waste their time on someone who is just looking to kill some time, when they may have made a sale on someone who is ready to buy...

OTOH, I may look at a vehicle today that I may buy in 4-6 months, like an SUV...am I wasting the SP's time if I go thru a test drive???...they might sell me the car, altho not today, and I may also determine if the car should be scratched off my list...does THAT waste the SP's time, for me to find out that I do not like the car???

I give free consults for bankruptcy and auto accident injuries...sometimes I spend an hour and they sign up with the guy down the street...that is just the way it is...if I go looking at a car and decide I do not want it, that is no different than offering a free car consultation without obligation...just because an SP spends time showing the car does not morally obligate you to buy a car, from that SP or even from that dealer...

div2

The following are actual comments I've heard over the past few days- while cross-shopping several sport/musclecar sedans:

"FWD car get better fuel economy than RWD cars."- Mazda salesperson(I was looking at a Mazdaspeed 6; I'll pass, thanks.)

"All Charger Daytonas come with the Nav system and a moonroof."- Dodge salesperson. Hmmmm... Then how come they are called options? This guy was so low pressure I felt like he didn't care if I bought anything. He probably should be working at a MINI dealership.

"This used 2006 Charger SRT-8 with 2K miles is a great deal at $39K. A new one costs $51K."- a different Dodge salesperson(and dealer). Nice. A new one actually costs $36K.

Stay tuned as I continue to broaden my automotive horizons. :P

dino001

Isn't MS6 AWD? Feels like that story told by, what's his name, about Subaru salesman looking for "missing" 2 cylinders on Legacy.

Well, I've been impressed by a few sales guys, but most of the time I know about the car more than they do, even when I'm not really interested.

tidester

Isn't MS6 AWD?

Yes, it is.

tidester, host

graphicguy

I think some of these "tire kickers" are conditioned by the manufacturers. I can't tell you how many times I've received an offer from the manufacturers for any of the following, if I agree to a "no obligation" test drive....

1) $50 in cash (or debit card)
2) a very nice Coleman cooler
3) Dinner for 2 at places like TGI Fridays
4) a free 2 night stay at a nice hotel
5) a sleeve of golf balls

I'm sure there are some "giveaways" that I'm forgetting. And, I usually tell the dealership that I'm just looking. But, the naufacturers are trying to get me to come in a drive their cars. They don't care if I'm in the market or not.