Stories from the Sales Frontlines

driver100

The Buick was favored for 3 things really. We really liked the styling..larger 3 rd row seating; and very little road noise.

I enjoyed reading your comments for your choice of cars and how you rated different models. I saw an ad on TV and it said the new Kia Sorrento has a third seat and it is full size...the only car in that price range with a 3rd seat. Would you have considered a Sorrento if you had known that.

I agree with what you said about used Enclaves, save 30% off new, but the car has had the best 1/3 of it life used by someone else.

For 2X a year would you consider renting a car for trips with grandchildren? People sometimes buy things they only use a few times a year - a boat is a big one - when it is really better just to rent it when you need it.

I am curious about your 2008 Buick Lucerne CXL. That's a car with a lot of content for the price. Many people say they are a great buy, you are getting a lot of car for the money. What do you not like about it? If you were to do it over again what would you buy instead? What do you think you will buy next time?

How did people in their mid 40s become attracted to Buicks? Is it a family tradition? I suppose, if you really like cars from the past, there aren't too many 4 door cars that have that 1970s - 80s feel about them. Cadillacs and Buicks do...is that why?

tjc78

I am curious about your 2008 Buick Lucerne CXL. That's a car with a lot of content for the price.

The Lucerne isn't a bad car, its actually based on the Caddy DeVille. IMO there are better choices in this segment of car, though and the Avalon really outdoes Buick at it's own game. The biggest problem w/ the Lucerne are the engine choices. When it first came out, I drove one prior to getting my 06 Avalon. The car rode great, was roomy and had a decent interior. The problem (for me) was that the V6 was the GM 3800. A great, reliable engine (can't doubt that at all) but coarse, unrefined and down on power compared to other V6s in the market. To get the power of Toyota's V6 you had to step up to the Northstar V8 but the FE suffered greatly. I started quite a debate over Lucerne Vs Avalon in one of the comparison forums here on Edmunds. Long time ago

The newer Lucernes come standard with the 3.9 from the Impala. Again, not a refined engine and not all that powerful for it's displacement. Why (I'll never figure this out) GM never put the 3.6 from the Caddy CTS into that car is beyond me.

snakeweasel

How did people in their mid 40s become attracted to Buicks?

I think it's because as people get older thier income rises and they want to step up from the Chevies and Hondas of the world. Buick offers some luxury at a reasonable price without it standing out like many luxury nameplates do.

I know a lot of people who were big fand of brands like BMW, MB, Caddie and the like in their teens, 20's and 30's that had to settle for the Chevies at that time. Now that they are in their 40's and 50's and can afford nice cars many have turned to Buick.

mako1a

I am 45 and my wife is 44...not your average Buick driver.

Ahh yes, I remember being 45. It was 1995. Clinton was in office.

There were no wars going on. The US economy was reasonably stable.

I hadn't had my 4-way bypass yet. It was even before the cancer screenings.

Mild hypertension and "watch that cholesterol level" my doctor said.

Car choices for a "yuppie" back then were the newly evolved 5.0 Mustang.

Or I could get a "foreign car" (Toyota/Honda). I chose a Cadillac.

Brougham to be exact. Big tank of a car, but road worthy-it was.

Stock market was almost to 6,000 and expected to rise. I dabbled.

It continued to rise. Interest rates were 5 to 7 %. Jobs were good,

buying a new car was exhaustive, but there were choices everywhere.

Dealers hated hearing what customers found on "that internet".

Thanks for that. Lets hope your 45 to 60 trip goes well.

driver100

The newer Lucernes come standard with the 3.9 from the Impala. Again, not a refined engine and not all that powerful for it's displacement.

That reminds me a guy on the radio was talking about how GM is now making a profit, because they realize you can't just put cars together as cheaply as possible to meet a price and make as much profit as possible. In other words people expect some engineering and refinement these days, and they can find it in other cars, like the Avalon.

Looks like Buick is still a little bit of a throw back, offer more content but GM isn't spending the money on technology and refinement. Kind of like buying the sizzle instead of the steak.

driver100

Now that they are in their 40's and 50's and can afford nice cars many have turned to Buick.

Good points, but I tend to think there has to be a nostalgic factor in there somewhere. Young people don't grow up aspiring to own a Buick.

Must be a family tradition, or as you say, growing up wanting to move up to a Buick one day. It isn't based on latest technology or "WOW" factor.

jmonroe

My wife and I have just placed an order for a new Buick Enclave CXL. Should arrive in 4 to 6 weeks.

Man…that takes a lot of you know what to come around here talking car sales. I hope you know your dues are going up because of this. We’re doing property taxes now. Please stay on topic.

Congrats and let us know how you like it after it arrives and you go around the block a couple times.

FWIW, the most reliable car I ever had was an 80' Park Ave that I bought used in '83 with almost 17K miles. I had that car until '97 and would have had a tranny installed (it was starting to slip just a wee bit) but Mrs. j said something like, "isn't it about time to just let that car go already? Do you want to be buried in it"? :surprise: I know it was pretty old but the body was more perfect than mine and it only had 112K on it. The used car guy that came to get it said he was going to put a rebuilt tranny in it and put it on his lot for $2100 and he wasn't going to take a penny less than that. I'm pretty sure I sold it to him for $800 and he was glad to get it.

Now do you see what you've done? You got me onto car talk too and my dues are high enough as it is.

jmonroe

lemko

Holy smoke! I'm also 45 and my wife is 44 and she has a 2005 Buick LaCrosse! I once owned a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe, 1979 Buick Park Avenue, and a 1988 Buick Park Avenue! My wife's LaCrosse was recently in an accident and she had her eye on a new Buick LaCrosse CXL in White Diamond. Fortunately, her car was able to be repaired and it buys me some time before thinking of getting her a new ride. My current cars are a 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance, 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, and a 1989 Cadillac Brougham.

fezo

I knew you'd show up once talk of aspiring to a Buick was mentioned!

I'm one of those folks with good memories of Buicks. For almost all the time we were around at the same time he drove a 49 Buick. I loved that car.

When my dad went through his series of $150 cars the car that broke the streak was a $600 56 Buick which was a real favorite.

I had a 56 Buick Special as a play around car in the early-mid 70s.

sterlingdog

Yes, North Carolina has property taxes on cars. Both of my cars run under $200 each per year.

Richard

sterlingdog

You forgot to get his shirt size and his Social Security number. :P

Richard

sterlingdog

My father was a Buick man. I grew up with Roadmasters, Electras, Buick Specials, and Skylarks. He once bought a '56 red and white Ford Crown Victoria coupe with the police interceptor engine. Man! That car would fly like a bat out of hell. My mother quickly put a stop to that and he returned to his Buicks. When he died, it was time for Mother to get a new car. I asked her what kind she would like to see. She said that a Buick was the only car that she would consider. She purchased a new Buick Regal. She kept it until she died ten years later. I had no problem selling it for a premium price. She kept it serviced regularly, had it washed once a week, and waxed three times a year. Each morning before she went out shopping or visiting, she took a cloth and wiped down the seats, dash, steering wheel, and door handles. It was a show room vehicle at age ten. Like Dad, she believed in taking good care of the cars.

Richard

Sandman6472

My boy turned out to be pretty smart and was on track to be the #1 of his class here in Florida, but in 10th grade wanted more...told us his dream was to go to a New England prep school. After "much" discussion, we said "apply"...got into Choate & Phillips Exeter...went to PE with a nice scholarship, mailman here guys...blue collar worker. Great school for him but a bit hard on our pocketbook but all worked out o k.

Funny thing is that in Coral Springs where we live, has one of the best school systems in the country but we let him live "his dream" and off he went...he's the most independent of our kids & showed this from a very early age.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:

sterlingdog

I'm really excited about your new purchase of the Explorer. You may remember that I had planned to wait and buy a new one. If the SRX hadn't come along, I would be doing exactly what you are doing. I love the new styling of the Explorer. I hope your wife likes the test drive and that you get a really good deal on it. Can't wait to read chapter 4 tomorrow or Friday. Good luck!

Richard

sterlingdog

"Great school for him but a bit hard on our pocketbook..."

You'll never regret it. What a wonderful father to help his son realize his "dream". He'll always remember you for that sacrifice.

Richard

isellhondas

As Hondas got more and more complicated it became more and more of a pain to do a delivery. On the cars with NAVI and DVD's, I would usually show people the basics and advise them to learn everything slowly with their manual in their laps sitting in their driveways.

That usually was enough.

Most people that have a Honda Navi system probably utilize 10% of it's capabilities. I can't understand why anyone would even want one much less a rear DVD system.

fezo

$200 for car property tax? Given the property tax for your house that's downright reasonable.

My friend up in New Hampshire knows a used car place he likes a lot. Gets cars for $3 of $4K and drives them forever. Since the tax is based on value he pays next to nothing and is perfectly happy with his old Volvo 850.

sterlingdog

"How did people in their mid 40s become attracted to Buicks?"

I don't think that it is necessarily connected to the past or a family tradition. There are many young adults who like the size and styling of the larger vehicles. They may also like the power and driving ability of such cars. To them, the "feel of the road" may have a different meaning.

Richard

sterlingdog

You are correct about the reasonable taxes here. I have no complaints when I write the checks for taxes---with the exception of the federal government. I find it rather disgusting that I have to allow them to hold extra tax money from my Social Security check when I paid for that years ago. There are very few rewards for being an old person---and less rewards for wanting to save your money.

Richard

Sandman6472

We both let him live it, though it took me a little bit to get on board. Remember it like it was yesterday...outside his room at about 11:45 one night I asked him "why" he wanted to go. He listed his reasons, which I countered them all, but then he said, "it's my dream dad" & I was on board then & there! And it's funny, the last few years we've gotten so close that now "he respects me" when we talk & values any opinion I give him when asked...it was such a great moment when he said that...and now we have a wonderful relationship!

One thing I've learned with having three kids is that you've got to "trust them", pure & simple...you can't expect trustworthy kids if you do not respect "them". I do this with all three and have much better relationship with them than my wife does, who doesn't seem to trust any of us. It gets to be very tense when we're all home since her lack of trust makes them uncomfortable. I keep telling her you need to respect them & their life choices...which she won't always do & questions them to death over trivial details which leads to blowouts since they're not hiding anything but she interrogates them like they are. Thus the problem.

G-d has blessed me with three loving & trustful kids who I respect a lot & treat them accordingly! I just love 'em to death!!!

Know, back on target here. Showed the wife another Elantra the other day and she said she likes it except for the rear sloping roof...told her we need to test drive one before we look for problems...just go in with an open mind. Am starting to think that the new Verano from Buick might just be the next auto on her side of the garage sometime in 2012!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:

robr2

...got into Choate & Phillips Exeter...went to PE with a nice scholarship...

My son plays lacrosse with a couple of boys going to the Exeter in the fall. PE has some great scholarship offers - basically if your family income is under $200K, they've got money for you.

My son went back and forth about private high school and decided to go to our town's high school. It's ranked in the top 20 in the state, has produced Nobel Prize winners, Saturday Night Live cast members, Olympic and professional athletes as well as plenty of engineers, accountants and letter carriers. If he really wanted the prep/private school route, we would've gound a way to make it happen.

Our high school is going 1:1 in terms of technology this fall - every student is being assigned an iPad for use in school and at home.

sterlingdog

I totally agree. Our SRX has the Nav and the rear DVD. They just happened to come with the car that my wife liked. The DVD still has the plastic over the screen and the earphones in the box. Doubt that it will ever be used. I haven't even attempted to use the Nav. When I drove to the beach last Friday to have lunch with some old friends, one of my buddies insisted on showing me a few steps on how it works. Though his intentions were good, it just doesn't interest me. That may change. My wife and I are planning a cross country trip for July---will also take an Alaskan cruise out of Seattle. I may want to learn the mechanics of the Nav for that trip. Still, I like road maps and a good atlas myself.

Richard

Sandman6472

Sounds like a great public high school...where is it? And iPads for all students? What a great thing to do so every student is on the same level playing field. Way cool way to go!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:

sterlingdog

I will say that Boston has an excellent pool of talented and creative teachers from which to choose. That helps in making a school of excellence---along with parental support such as yours. Your son is very fortunate to attend such a fine public school.

Richard

fezo

Funny thing with back seat DVD players. My younger daughters loved them for a while and would probably still like them on a long trip (our Ody just happened to have it - I wasn't looking for that). They'd watch Looney Tunes and other dad approved things.

Now when we go some place we are usually taking the Camry and they seem to like that better than the van even with the DVD in the van.

stickguy

we never had a built in DVD, but some years back got each child (2) a cheap portable one. worked just fine, could use in both cars, and best of all, no fighting about what to watch.

lately, they don't even bother to bring them. They both have laptops they never leave behind, and just use those instead.

robr2

The iPads have the parents worried - mostly about loss or damage. The school will be offering an insurance plan to cover them.

There has been some criticism about the iPads thinking students will be wasting time in class surfing or e-mailing. As the principal put it - we want to teach them how to use the technology they will have to use once they leave there and how to use it properly. Will there be wasting time? Of course but the best teachers will be able to engage them and use this new technology to help them learn. They already use their cellphones in the classroom.

Here is a link to a news story:

iPads in the Classroom">

They chose iPads over laptops because they are easy to use, fairly safe from malware, quiet to use (imagine 20 laptops clicking at once in a classroom) and have a 10 hour battery life.

fezo

I'm not doing laptops for 9 year olds but I get what you're saying.

of course the older girls hardly ever set foot in a vehicle we're driving. They are off with their friends.

tallman1

Most people that have a Honda Navi system probably utilize 10% of it's capabilities.

I'm not one of those. I've got the factory navi in my 06 Accord and absolutely love it. Worth every penny for me. My version has the touch screen and integrated audio, heat/AC controls. I don't use the voice commands all that much but they are handy when I do.

I regularly use the calculator, trip computer, and I'm surprised how often I use the calendar feature.

I use the navi system itself all the time, even when going to places I know... I like seeing the distance and time.

We have a Garmin for our other vehicle and it works well but doesn't compare to the Honda factory navi. It's not everyone's cup of tea and it is expensive but I have no regrets after 90k miles and exactly 5 years of ownership.

tallman1

My wife and I are planning a cross country trip for July---will also take an Alaskan cruise out of Seattle.

July is a great month to be in Seattle. Not much chance of rain, as long as you wait until after the 4th.

Maybe isell and I can wave to you as you sail away. Of course, he's the cruise expert, maybe he'll be aboard. Come to think of it, my in-laws are taking an Alaskan cruise in July. You'd like them.... they are very nice and are former teachers.

sterlingdog

Steve, I don't know why I never remember that you live near Seattle. I'm glad to hear that Seattle won't have much rain when we're out that way. We've been across country once---the Southern route. We're looking forward to the Northern route and the cruise to Alaska. It's long overdue. We've been retired five years now, and everytime we planned the trip something came up to prevent us from leaving. We're leaving two weeks before the cruise so that we can make some stops on the way. My sister and her husband will fly into Seattle to meet us for the week's cruise. We're looking forward to it.

Richard

nyccarguy

My wife's 2010 TSX has the Technology Package which includes Navigation & a Rear View Camera among other things. The Navigation System is worth its weight in gold. My wife uses it for work, she's a Physical Therapist who sees patients who are homebound. She gets new patients, discharges patients all the time & uses the NAV in her car to make adjustments accordingly. It is amaxing technology.

fezo

Two weeks to get to Seattle. Now you are talking. That's a nice trip.

Let's see. If you are doing the northern tier do not miss Mount Rushmore. Going east to west it involves driving through maybe 300 miles of absolutely nothing other than Wall Drug signs on the prairie but it's worth it. The Black Hills are really nice.

tjc78

The problem with in dash NAV is the prices are high, you usually have to order every other conceivable option to get it and a $119.00 portable usually works better.

MY GFs mother has factory NAV in her Altima. It sucks, and doesn't say the street names. I'll take my Google maps GPS in my Android cell phone any day.

imidazol97

>Funny thing is that in Coral Springs where we live, has one of the best school systems in the country

Is that a public school?

imidazol97

>our town's high school. It's ranked in the top 20 in the state, has produced Nobel Prize winners, Saturday Night Live cast members, Olympic and professional athletes as well as plenty of engineers, accountants and letter carriers.

Is that a public school?

My point with the public schools is that many people believe the radio talk folks that every "government" school is trash. While when most people are polled correctly, their local school system, which they know much better than schools 1000 miles away, are much better than radio talk guys want us to believe.

Our local school system is the same way. Top ranking on state accountability system: Excellent with distinction.

sterlingdog

It's definitely on our list of things to see---along with many others.

Richard

sterlingdog

"Top ranking on state accountability system: Excellent with distinction".

While I am delighted that you have a good school system, some things have to be considered that are often only known by the insiders:

1. Content of the test---challenging or dumbing down?
2. Scoring techniques---rubrics, averaging, or percentages for missed questions?
3. Test security---who gives it, who monitors it, and what technology is allowed?
4. Test design---Does it cover what students really need to know?
5. Playing with numbers---Can I make it say what I want it to say?
6. Assigning titles---"Excellent" in whose eyes?
7. Test graders---quality of graders and the knowledge to know what they're looking for in answers?
8. Sacrificing other subjects---less emphasis on history, geography, and the arts---all for the sake of testing in math and science.
9. Writing tests---Were students required to formulate a paragraph and use correct sentence construction?
10. Higher order thinking skills---Were students required to analyze, critique, and depict concepts?
11. Who got tested? Were low performers, chronic absentees, and those on criminal probation sorted out and tested in different semesters to keep the positive numbers higher? Some of those may have been tested in summer school when the reports don't make the headline news.

There are so many variables. I worked in a large school system of 50 schools. Many of them were low performing schools. I saw a lot of manipulation of scores at both the local and state levels---in order to please the public. I saw titles like "low performing" changed to "maintaining status" which sounded better. Also, "average" became "satisfactory" and "above average" became "Excellent". "Excellent" became a "school of distinction". Lots of games are played, and a good testing coordinator knows how to do it.

I'm sure that your situation didn't fall into these categories. I'm just saying that these things do happen in some areas of the country. As I used to tell my teachers: Saying it's better doesn't make it better. You have to make it happen.

Richard

robr2

Yes - it's a public school and the ranking is only against other public schools.

driver100

You forgot to get his shirt size and his Social Security number.

Yes, thanks for reminding me. Do you happen to have that information.

isellhondas

We have taken the Alaska cruise out of Seattle three times now and we would go again. By far, the BEST value for the money!

Maybe we can all meet at Issaquah's favorite watering hole!

snakeweasel

It isn't based on latest technology or "WOW" factor.

I would say it is based on the latest technology and/or "WOW" factor, or more precisely the lack of it. Not everyone wants the latest technology (it does come at a cost) or the "WOW" factor.

Please don't take offense at this but I do know a Buick driver or two that will not touch a MB or a BMW simply because people use them as status symbols. There are a lot of people that scrimp and save and work two jobs and live in cheap apartments so that they can be seen in a MB or a BMW.

I am not saying that that is the typical driver of those brands but people seeking a status symbol with seats usually get a MB or BMW.

Buick is a nice car without being pretentious.

sterlingdog

Did you by chance use Holland America? Their cruises to the Inside Passage look really nice. We haven't decided on a cruise line yet.

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...2007 Buick Rendevous CXL 68,500 miles for $11,700..."

Boy are they going to make money on that trade. Autotrader has a 2007 just like that with the same milage listed for $18K.

Salesman: "Yes mame, I can let the Buick go for $17,000 but I won't be making a penny on the deal."

I'm in the wrong business.

oldfarmer50

"...There are very few rewards for being an old person..."

The reward is in not having died young.

oldfarmer50

"...I like road maps and a good atlas..."

Ahhhh, a man after my own heart. Plus if you lose your map you just pay a buck and replace it. Imagine if your portable NAV system fell out the window or got Coke spilled on it.

I had a rental once with a Nav system. I had to let my son work with it.

I would have never left the driveway or worse, gone into the swamp trying to figure it out.

oldfarmer50

"...The iPads have parents worried..."

And with good reason. A while ago a Jr. high school was caught spying on their kids through the lap tops the school had given them. Teachers could activate the camera and watch the kids sleeping, playing, showering, anything within sight of the computer.

The school said no one was watching the kids for any perverted purpose but it was later found out that school staff had downloaded thousands of pictures.

Scarey.

houdini1

The original ipads do not have cameras...but the new ipad 2 does.

They should have put those teachers in jail !!

stickguy

that was down by me (lower merrion, outside philly, a very wealthy district).

It wasn't the teachers, it was someone in the administration office that could do it. Was only supposed to be used to track lost or stolen laptops, but someone went beyond that.

driver100

I am not saying that that is the typical driver of those brands but people seeking a status symbol with seats usually get a MB or BMW.

I didn't think that was the case before, but now I think there is some truth to that statement. I like my bmw because of the way it handles and the workmanship, but I liked the Fusion for about half the price a lot too. I really don't care about status, but I do think there are people who need a luxury car for their own self esteem. But, that's their problem.