Stories from the Sales Frontlines

isellhondas

To answer your question, no I wouldn't.

However Dealer B is screwing up the market by giving discounts he doesn't have to.

Makes no sense to screw up a marketplace.

explorerx4

Driver,
How about checking into this? BMW overseas delivery
My next door neighbor has done this a couple of times and is planning to do it again, soon.

oldfarmer50

Hockey fans burning down Vancouver, the Canadian post office has a lockout on it's employees....what next, will Canadians start running around being rude to each other?

You guys are acting like a bunch of Americans! :surprise:

BTW, down here we usually burn down the town when we WIN! :P

oldfarmer50

"...I hear something similar at times..."

Well, actually, I was paraphrasing my wife's comments.

What she says is: "You THINK you know everything and if you don't know it you just make it up!". :sick:

explorerx4

It's going to be an epic parade in Boston on Saturday.
I helped clinch the Cup by wearing my lucky Bruins shirt yesterday.
Forgot to wear it for game 5. :sick:

sterlingdog

Don't horn in on my territory. I'm the "yank" king here. If I pulled an entire computer apart with one yank, those teeth would be a walk in the park.

Richard

sterlingdog

OMG! I yelled when I read that one!

Richard

sterlingdog

"Why these kids can't just wait on this stuff..."

I did wait on my wisdom teeth until I was age 42. Good golly Miss Molly! You don't want to know the agony that I suffered at that age! Mine were also below the gum line and had grown crooked. One morning they decided to push against my other teeth. I couldn't get to an oral surgeon fast enough. My dentist recommended one 60 miles from home. I think that my wife broke the sound barrier getting me there.

Richard

sterlingdog

Fabulous idea about those bun and back warmers! Thanks. I'll remember that.

Richard

sterlingdog

I think that our wives met in another life and planned these remarks. There are times when I try to share something that I read or heard with my wife. Her response will be, "Are you sure that you didn't just make that up?" :sick:

Richard

sterlingdog

Sounds more like the Stanley Bucket, doesn't it? :P On a more serious note, it's pretty sad when people get that upset over a sport. Great role models for children and the idea of sportsmanship. :sick:

Richard

explorerx4

Richard, I love ice hockey and the history of the Stanley Cup. It is the most storied trophy in the history of professional sports.
Pro sports are about winning. If you can do it nice, great, but that doesn't happen often.
My oldest daughter's dream is to work for a pro sports team.
It's not what I would have picked her, but it actually has some chances to work.

driver100

To answer your question, no I wouldn't.
However Dealer B is screwing up the market by giving discounts he doesn't have to.

I think Dealer B wants the volume (probably makes it up on factory rebates) and he is selling cars to people who would not normally buy from him...out of the area.

The sales people are probably on a bonus system that encourages them to move car.

I wouldn't change dealers for $500 difference, maybe even up to $700, but for a few $1000 I don't have to think about it for too long. I am not a masochist.

driver100

How about checking into this? BMW overseas delivery

I looked into it and I would have considered it, very carefully. 2 big drawbacks though;
1) You will lose 6 to 8 weeks from your warranty while the car is being shipped back, and the big problem;
2)In Canada you don't get any extra discounts, so that just aggravates me. American buyers get 6% off the price of the car (covers your flight) plus anything extra the dealer gives you.

I'd have to have "SUCKER" written on my forehead to go along with that deal.

If I lived in the U.S. I would do it for sure. People love driving their new car in Europe.

driver100

You guys are acting like a bunch of Americans!
BTW, down here we usually burn down the town when we WIN!

At least when we burn cars and wreck buildings we are polite about it. May I burn your car sir?

Seriously, there were over 100,000 people in the streets and probably less than 200 troublemakers who were black block and anarchists who just like to make a point.

Vancouver was pretty well back to it's beautiful quiet self today. We are going there on Sunday for a week....absolutely beautiful city. From the waterfront you can see beautiful buildings, water, boats, seaplanes, the skytrain...it has to be one of the most beautiful cities in the world.

driver100

On a more serious note, it's pretty sad when people get that upset over a sport.

Only a small number of trouble makers...mostly criminals and anarchists. Over 12,000 people offered to help clean up the city the next day.

This seems to be a trend. If you don't have a life you try to disrupt every one elses life. I don't think it is fair to blame it on the hockey fans, though that would be the 1st impression the news stories would lead you to believe.

sterlingdog

"Pro sports are about winning."

While I can appreciate your enthusiasm for the sport, Vancouver fans have crossed the line. When innocent people protecting their businesses are left bleeding in the streets, the Stanley Cup doesn't appear to be very storied. Fire fighters have had to let buildings and cars burn because they have been placed in too much danger. Public transportation is shut down until further notice. Hospitals have admitted over 200 injured and 150 rioters have been arrested. All of this because a team lost a match? It is truly beyond my scope of understanding and tolerance.

Richard

gogiboy

"Not really. There are still new cars that have some wood trim on the dash. Also, there is wood trim and there is wood trim."

Richard, I want you to spruce up that SRX with some full side panel vinyl wood trim stickers. No one else in your area will have an SRX with the "wood trim package". I think you can probably get one of those enterprising companies that make the vinyl advertising stuff for small business vans to do bang up job for you.

Think about how easy it will be to find your vehicle in mall parking lots and during golf tournaments. Also, valets will park it far from other cars at the back of the lot thus ensuring that the vinyl will remain undamaged for years to come.

Posters talking about brushed aluminum are way behind the times as the new high end car interior materials are now Carrera marble trim (preferably tastefully carved by Michelangelo), velvet seat covers and bamboo headliners.

Gogiboy

stickguy

First of all, a dealers goal is to sell cars and make money. Not keep the marketplace from getting polluted. Can't feed the kids with moral victories!

but also, if you are dealing with out of area people, might as well offer super skinny deals. That is the only way someone is coming that far to buy from you. And frankly, it makes no difference to the local market.

dealer B sells a car to someone they will never see again for service, make a few bucks, and get another unit in the books. Better than not selling a car at all.

stickguy

if you are doing the woodgrain, don't forget to add the vinyl roof.

Hey, it is a retired guy driving a caddy, isn't that some kind of law to have the vinyl roof and always on left turn blinker?

nyccarguy

Pro sports are about winning. If you can do it nice, great, but that doesn't happen often.

Doesn't happen very often? I root for the YANKEES! That doesn't apply to me:)

Driver100 - How far away is dealer B from you (In Miles, not Kilometers:)?

gogiboy

I know that many of you have received one of those letters where the dealer wants your car. I got one from our Hyundai dealership. Of course they wanted my specific year, make and model and said that they needed x number of units for their inventory, No surprises there. What gave me pause, however, was that they listed a concrete trade-in value range (if in good condition, which they believe my car to be). I suppose the catch is that I would have to pay MSRP on their new car.

I'm not in the market for something new, but wondered if this was just another variant on the "get them into the showroom whatever it takes" ploy. I do have one of the supposedly "short supply" small, fuel efficient Japanese cars that dealerships seem to want--or is that just a rumor?

Gogiboy

roadburner

My whole point is why can companies like Hyundai and Honda can sell a car that will go 150K trouble free for $20K why cant BMW do it on a $50K? How much prestige is there in having a monthly appointment with your mechanic? How much fun is it to get repairs so frequently?

My 1995 318ti track rat has nearly 130k miles on it and outside of one set of brakes and several sets of track tires it has only needed a thermostat, a couple of idler pulleys, a brake light switch, and a coolant fitting in the 15 years I've owned it.
My wife's 114k mile 2004 X3 needed a SRS seat sensor under warranty and that's it- aside from one set of pads/rotors and two sets of tires.
And I can only wish that my 82k mile Mazdaspeed3 exhibited equivalent reliability- although it has been relatively trouble-free for the last 12k miles(fingers crossed).

graphicguy

nyccarguy....thanks!

Some people do it one way, some do it another. If you can do a deal, let's get on with it. If not (and the dealer's going to try to squeeze another $500 or more out of me), I'm not interested in doing business with you.

Their car's the same one as they sell up the road. My trade is the same, regardless of the dealer who takes it in. Their car is worth what it's worth. My car is worth what it's worth (or whatever anyone is willing to pay as a trade).

Personally, I think competition's good. There have been some dealers who employ tactics I just can't stand (like talking from a script without listening to my desired car). I try to avoid those. I had one who actually said to me one time...."I'm trying to throw enough !@#$ against the wall to see what sticks with you." As I told him, "you don't have to do that....just listen to what I'm saying and you don't have to dirty your hands to begin with."

Truth is, I like both the BMW 3 and the G37. Both are nice cars that perform wonderfully. And, they're closer in real world terms. If you aren't "tracking" these cars, I'd venture to say you may not even notice their performance differences. That said, the BMW has a familiarity to it, because I've owned them in the past. They really don't change much in the styling dept, either in or out. Then again, if it isn't broke, why fix it.

I think they're bringing out a new 3 next year, too.

BMW dealers have plenty of stock. They just don't seem to have the combos I want. Infiniti has been constrained a bit by what's happened in Japan.

BTW.....I had to do some work yesterday at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, about 45 minutes up the road from me. After I finished, I stopped by the local Infiniti dealership. After talking to one of their sales people for a bit, and their manager who had the used car guy look at my car, that $2K that my Cincinnati dealership said he wouldn't do, the dealer 40 miles away from him in Dayton said he would. In addition, he said he'd make a deal on a G for almost $1,000 less than the Cincinnati dealership would. No grinding.

So, it does pay to shop around a bit, if for nothing else, to keep the dealerships honest.

Isell, I hear what you're saying. But again, competition is good. I'm not a difficult (potential) customer. I am what I consider a knowledgeable one.

I would imagine there are some customers who walk into that Cincinnati Infiniti dealership and take the first offer the dealer makes. They seem to pack an awful lot of $$$$ into their deals, relative to a dealership who has more competition. Someone's buying from them, as they still have their doors open. Their sales turnover seems high, though. I don't think I've ever seen one familiar face in their whenever I visit, except for the GM. Don't know what that means, but if their sales people can't make money there, I guess they leave.

The sales person in Dayton had been there 18 years. He said there was another sales person who had been there just as long. They were the least expensive dealer (without grinding). Obviously, he was successful, as was the dealership.

Nothing really to report. I'm sure the phone calls will continue over the weekend from the dealerships.

driver100

dealer B sells a car to someone they will never see again for service, make a few bucks, and get another unit in the books. Better than not selling a car at all.

Exactly...that is the fact of the matter. In fact, Dealer A has a much better service department than B. I don't even think they care, since they make money more on their service department and they can sell fewer cars but make a bigger profit on each.

Dealer B is in a more competitive area, high density city where there are more dealers per square mile. They have to be a volume dealer to survive. No use trying to take the high road just to make a point.

driver100

if you are doing the woodgrain, don't forget to add the vinyl roof.

These will add a special something too:

sterlingdog

I find it humorous that they want your car, but they have no idea what you own. It could be a clunker but they want it. You may have a car that is in "short supply" but they don't know it. You can rest assured that the quoted trade in range has been calculated in their favor. You WILL pay top dollar for your new ride. I get at least one of those letters monthly. Some of my letters even come with a key to the "treasure box" or to a new car that is being given away by the dealership. I once sent a key back with a note that said, "Let me know if my key fits, and I'll be right down for a visit." The joys of idiot marketing!

Richard

driver100

Driver100 - How far away is dealer B from you (In Miles, not Kilometers:)?

Dealer A is about 15 miles and 20 minutes away....easy driving.

Dealer B is about 25 miles away and is about 45 minutes of heavy traffic driving.

My friend bought from Dealer B, took his key to get on the service program at Dealer A. He says once he picks up his car, he doesn't go back. He has sent B a few new customers.

Dealer A has a much better service department and waiting room area, and is close enough for shuttle service to work.

sterlingdog

That's what I need on my hood before I head out West! Perhaps my Cadillac dealer can do an install Monday morning.

Richard

driver100

Of course they wanted my specific year, make and model and said that they needed x number of units for their inventory,

I think that is really good marketing. They have personalized an ad that sounds like it was meant just for you. Many people would feel compelled to look into it..........hmmm, someone actually wants my car, that means they will give me top dollar.

Of course, we Edmunds people are too smart to fall for it, but my guess is lots of people would say, "What a great chance to unload this lemon, somebody really wants it!".

When I went for a test drive with Dealer A the first thing he said to me was, "I have people who are looking for a car just like your trade-in". Yeh, sure....why hasn't he called and offered me top dollar for it - then he would have 2 sales?

driver100

That's what I need on my hood before I head out West!

LOL, forgot about that. You would fit right in, .......howdy partner.

sterlingdog

"...and alwys on left turn blinker?"

The SRX takes care of that problem. If you leave a blinker on too long, a bell goes off telling you to stop it. I guess they figured old retired people driving a Caddy needed that option. :sick: :shades:

Richard

mako1a

However Dealer B is screwing up the market by giving discounts he doesn't have to.
Makes no sense to screw up a marketplace.

Yellow Mustang



This is the Mustang I tried to get my local Ford dealer to order (at this price).

He wouldn't do it. Says not enough profit. Never got exact price from him, but it was around $2k more from him.

Dealer in Katy, TX is making a profit...why does my local (dealer A) feel entitled to 2 grand more profit for the exact car. Perhaps you would like to spend money for nothing. I think it's absurd.

See, Isell...not grinding over a lousy $100. Dismissing a greedy dealer for attempted extortion of two thousand dollars.

sterlingdog

When I bought the SRX, I used the GG method---went in and told the guy my one time figure. I never budged from it. I had done my homework and left him enough room to save face. I also had a figure for my '03 Explorer trade in. Before I could tell him that it was $4K, he offered me $7K. Best deal that I ever made on a car. The GM did pop in to see if I would budge on the SRX. After two minutes, he realized that I wouldn't do it. He told the salesman to write up the deal. There was no pressure or grinding on either side. It was a pleasant experience. The service department has been very nice as well.

Richard

driver100

Dealer in Katy, TX is making a profit...why does my local (dealer A) feel entitled to 2 grand more profit for the exact car.

I think it is just 2 different ways of marketing. One dealer relies on people supporting their local guy and he will make a bigger profit on selling fewer cars. The other dealer wants to make money by selling volume.

We haven't talked about this much but I understand dealers get rebates for cars sold too. In fact, when you are buying a car for dealer cost, the dealer is still probably making a few dollars on rebates from the manufacturer...they don't like to tell you that.

Also carrying costs on cars are probably a big expense. Moving cars and changing metal into cash probably means a lot to the bottom line as well.

You can't be upset with your local dealer, it's just his method for staying in business. If you can buy that Mustang for less from an out of town dealer go with it. You could actually get that Mustang for $18K!!!!!! :confuse:

driver100

. I also had a figure for my '03 Explorer trade in.

Dealer B is supposed to get back to me soon....he said the end of the week.

I will see what kind of discount he gives me on the 2012...I know the MSRP, and I looked up my trade in as you suggested. I won't tell him that I know that, I might be pleasantly surprised just like you were, or he might be making up the lower price of the new car by going low on the trade in.

This is one time I don't care a lot. I would like to get the new car if the discount on the new one is as large as he indicates, and if the trade in is fair. But, I could happily continue driving my car.

It's nice not to have to unload a lemon...I have been there and done that.

mako1a

You could actually get that Mustang for $18K!!!!!!



As soon as the ad hit I put the $18k bid on it. I may raise, but transport is involved.

Katy, TX is just outside Houston and a HUGE market with the latest goodies.

My local dealer will probably never sell me a car. No market, high markup.

They depend on the locals with no computer skills to keep them in business.

Just how much markup should there be to 1. have a car delivered, 2. remove plastic, 3. wait for a buyer?

oldfarmer50

Yellow Mustang

Is that a V-6 or GT for $23K? A stripper GT would be a bargain at even $25K. A stripper V-6 goes for about $23K. What options did your Ebay car have? Do you know what the reserve price is?

I like that color even though I not a fan of yellow.

mako1a

The Yellow one is, of course, a V6 for $23.7k. But it is a 2012.

Here's the best price you'll find on a NEW (2011) V-8 Mustang. (also Katy, TX).

2011 V-8 Mustang NEW

Auto Nation is Huge and is big in the Seattle area. I wonder if Isells store was a participant.

isellhondas

Except people will buy from Dealer B after driving 200 miles but will (of course) return to Dealer A for their warranty work.

And, I've heard people here talk like giving a store warranty work is a favor. In most cases, warranty work is not a very profitable thing especially when a customer brings in a "laundry list" of insignificant problems to fix that are time consuming.

graphicguy

isell....wait a minute, now. You're a reasonable fellow. If I could politely ask, take a step backwards just for a moment.

Whether warranty work is profitable or not isn't part of the discussion. The issue is, the warranty exists. Any thing that is wrong, the warranty is supposed to fix, regardless of whether it's monumental, significant, or insignificant. Speaking of significance, who gets to decide what is or isn't significant? I would think that would be up to the person who pulled several thousands (most times many, many several thousands) of dollars out of their pockets to buy the car in the first place.

It's not a favor to do warranty work by the dealership. IT'S A REQUIREMENT!

If any dealer is only going to do warranty work for the customer who bought from them, make that statement up front, so the customer doesn't "bother" that particular dealership for service work any more.

driver100

Except people will buy from Dealer B after driving 200 miles but will (of course) return to Dealer A for their warranty work.

I took this business course and one of the speakers we had started up a very successful chain of coffee stores, called the Second Cup.

They wanted to distinguish themselves as the better brand so they charged more. The coffee was basically the same as the other large chains, but they wanted to create this feeling their brand was superior.

The dealer has to do the warranty work and he has to do it well or he will have problems with head office. Maybe Dealer A is just too money hungry or doesn't operate efficently as Dealer B.

Usually I am a pretty loyal customer, I actually have to have a bad experience before I will switch suppliers or products, and if I can save $5000+ by shopping at Dealer B, I am gone in a flash.

driver100

It's not a favor to do warranty work by the dealership. IT'S A REQUIREMENT!

Exactly GG. As I said, my friend saved $25k on his 7 Series, $10k extra because Dealer B's price was that much lower than A's.

When he picks up his car at B, he drives home, stops at A, gives them the key to the car, so he is now on their system for warranty work.

No problem!

He figures A is glad to get the business because warranty work is profitable!

isellhondas

I agree with you 100%. It is certainly a REQUIREMENT but that doesn't mean that a store likes doing warranty work especially when their local customer bought elsewhere to save a few bucks.

Now, unless it's a very small store, the shop probably doesn't know (or care) where the car was purchased.

Still, if the shop is busy and a demanding warranty customer who bought elsewhere isn't going to be the favorite people to deal with.

When I'm talking about minor things, I'm talking about stuff like a rattle that comes and go's. The customer hears it (sometimes) but the guy in the shop can't. So the Service Manager takes time out his day to go on a 20 mile ride with an unhappy customerto try to hear an elusive rattle.

Now, as a reasonalble person yourself, would you be happier trying to please a loyal local customer who bought the car from your store or from another customer who shopped elsewhere to save a few bucks?

The car IS going to get fixed under warranty one way or another.

isellhondas

" He figures A is glad to get the business because warranty work is profitable"

I'm sure in his mind he does "figure" that and in some cases, he's right.

Ask any Dealership Technician if they would ratehr do warranty work or "customer pay" work and see what the answer is.

Still, in a dead shop, warranty work is better than no work.

tjc78

I think I've told this story before so I'll keep it short. I bought a 98 Olds 88 brand new off the showroom floor. It leaked water inside the car from day one. Over the course of about a 6-8 months my selling dealer couldn't completely fix it. The selling dealer closed. I then called another Olds dealer, explained my frustration and I needed the car looked at. They proceeded to tell me they couldn't get to it for a long time (I can't remember exactly, but 3/4 weeks).

This pretty much explained to me that they didn't want to deal with it. I ended up cancelling the appointment anyway because I traded the darn thing in (with a wet floor :lemon: )

isellhondas

Before anyone jumps on me....THEY SHOULD HAVE FIXED YOUR LEAK!

They should have greeted you with a smile and cheerfully offered to fix your leak under warranty. Instead, they blew you off which was WRONG!

Having said this, the WORST job that can get assigned to a dealer tech is a rattle or a water leak. They can be worse than miserable to track down and the factlory pays very little time to do these.

Yes, it shouldn't matter! Yes, the techs should be reminded that " You have to taste the bad to appreciate the good"...ad nauseum.

A lot of independant shops will turn down work like this and for good reason.

They have tied up racks and tech for days while turning down "good" jobs to track down and fix a pesky water leak or rattle.

You see, in addition to my life selling cars, I once ran a busy shop and I've spent thousands of hours in thousands of shops during my stint in the tool business so I do know what these guys go through.

driver100

When I'm talking about minor things, I'm talking about stuff like a rattle that comes and go's.

If it's a rattle or a water leak I'll drive the extra 30 minutes to get it fixed at the dealer where I bought it....if I have to.

I don't know if any dealer really ever fixes rattles or leaks, they usually give it a try and then tell you it will go away.

I don't remember having a leak or rattle to report in any new car I have ever owned, so I'm not going to worry about that if I can save a few $1000.

driver100

I think I've told this story before so I'll keep it short. I bought a 98 Olds 88 brand new off the showroom floor. It leaked water inside the car from day one.

And I'll keep this short because I told it before.

My friend bought his first new car in the 70s, a Chevy Nova. My friend Jim didn't want the Nova, he wanted a sports car, but his fiance wanted a "family" car.

So, he hated the Nova from the time he picked it up.

The trunk leaked badly whenever it rained. He took it back and told the salesman the service department can't fix the leak. The salesman put his arm around my friend, and he said "Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, look at it this way, how often does it rain?"

Jim never bought a new car after that, only used, and the marriage lasted only 2 years, and he never got married again.

isellhondas

Our 1989 Buick Le Sabre T Type had a trunk leak too. After several trips back to the dealer (wherre I bought it) I was told..." For some reason, the coupes seem to leak a bit"

It wasn't that bad so I lived with it.