Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    "Hard to see Middle America on a cruise though"

    Very true.

    My point about cruises ia the VALUE they offer. Ever changing views, entertainment non stop, great meals included in the price and the ability to do whatever you want. go to the shows or sit on deck and read or sleep in your cabin.

    Visit interesting ports or just stay on the ship.

    They make their money on extras kinda like the car business.

    Instead of "paint and fab", they have photographers constantly taking your pictures that you can buy. They have 10.00 drinks and beers are 9.00.

    The have art shows, high end gift shops. Expensive wines are presented at every meal.

    Instead of offering extended warranties they offer instead, excursions when you get into ports and a casino with slot machines that are so tight they will drain your wallets.

    But...if a person is prudent a cruise is a real bargain!
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I have a follow up for this that I'll tell later, after I come back from lunch.

    We went out for our anniversary on Saturday night and when I made reservations earlier in the week I asked what they could do for the occasion. Since we have been to that place quite a few times they said, “don’t worry, we’ll take care of you. Thanks for thinking of us again”.

    After dinner the waiter comes by and says, “this is on us (nice small chocolate cake with a few candles), happy anniversary”. The woman at the table next to us says to Mrs. j, “today’s our anniversary too. 30 something for us. How about you”? Mrs. J said, 40 something for us”. The woman says, “get out, you’re kidding”. I jump in and said (like I have said a few times before when I have heard this), “believe it, it’s true. I got her in trouble when she was 17 so I did the right thing”. This couple chuckled but I remember twice when there was silence and the couple said nothing more to us for the rest of the evening.

    On Saturday night, Mrs. j said, “oh, don’t pay any attention to him he always says that”. Then she mentioned how a couple people were turned off by my comment. The guy said, “I like it. I’ll have to remember that line the next time the occasions comes up for us”. The woman said, “you better forget what you just heard if you know what’s good for you”. :(

    I guess it’s only amusing when someone else says it.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Here is an interesting comparison: Our cross country trip in 1982 cost us $2,500 and we were gone a month. This one was $6,500 and we were gone three weeks. Thirty years makes quite a difference.

    Hold up there!

    My handy dandy inflation calculator tells me that $2500 in 1982 is equivalent to $5829.23 in 2011. Still, you spent $700 less 30 years ago for an extra week on the road, which tells me that gas, food and lodging were cheaper then than now, when you adjust for inflation.

    And, thanks for the info on the lodging. I'm always curious how others plan their trips.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Hmmmm..

    Well, I can tell you that gas wasn't cheaper allowing for inflation in 1982.

    They probably ate a proper lunch back then....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,249
    I never know what to do with people without a sense of humor, or who think that maybe no one else has one.

    Years ago, when my kids were young and I'd hear other parents of young kids complain about how expensive kids were, I'd let them in on my hot tip: get them into a sweatshop job early, before they know better and start complaining. I'd go on about how the rug factory offered a great deal at $0.75/hour, and that I felt it was only right that my kids (under age 10 at the time) stopped mooching and started contributing, plus they're learning a valuable skill.

    Nevermind that there wasn't a rug factory in the entire state... some people took me seriously enough that I figured Child Protective Services might just show up one day.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    Review your vehicle

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,368
    "...You boat guys drive me crazy..."

    Boats are like backyard swimming pools, you envy the owner until you go out and buy one. Most boat owners I know would sell their pride and joy in a heartbeat if they could get any where near what they paid for them.

    It's like owning an exotic vintage sports car; expensive to run, expensive to fix and expensive to get rid of. A boat is defined as: A large hole in the water into which one pours money.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go for a cruise, just on someone else's boat.

    That goes for swimming pools too. I just donated my above ground pool to my BIL and after spending all Sunday helping him set it up I feel he got the bad end of the bargain.

    I will help him swim in it though. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,176
    But...if a person is prudent a cruise is a real bargain!

    I hope so going on my first one in about 2 months! I did budget some coin for shore excursion and on board spending, I'm sure I'll need it.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,368
    edited July 2011
    "...and paying for the Ontario seller's package is annoying..."

    I'm not sure what that is. You say you also have to do safety and emission checks? For a private sale? Wow, I can see why you wouldn't want to bother.

    Here in NY it's all "buyer beware" because private sales are all "as is" with no promise that the vehicle will pass inspection. When I need a laugh I review the Craigslist ads which gloss over the check engine lights being on (which means the car won't pass inspection).

    They all seem to need a $20 part to make them good as new.

    BTW, I woman at work just bought a new Subie Outback. Stunning vehicle, dark red. Doesn't look anything like the Outbacks that the crockadille hunter used to promote.

    She traded in a 2007 Saturn Ion Hybrid. I bet she took a bath on that joke of a gas saver. :lemon:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We've been on 8 or 9 cruises and they have been wonderful.

    You really don't have to spend that much extra money and you'll still have a great time.

    Just don't get tinto a fight with a slot machine. Trust me, you will lose!
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    She traded in a 2007 Saturn Ion Hybrid.

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there was no such thing as an ION Hybrid. Perhaps you meant the VUE?
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    I belong to a hotel points club that gives discounted rates -- free nights -- and lots of hotels to choose from. We charge everything on the card and pay it off each month. Really saves. Spent 5 days in Phoenix in a small suite last Feb. -- cost -- zero. Free breakfast and if you take a bagel and some pb & j up to the room -- free lunch as well. Dollar mcdouble for dinner and a small fries --- living like a king on chump change. Plenty of money for golf and other essentials like those cactus shaped pencils.
    Richard --- nice trip and best of all no vehicle issues.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,249
    You obviously don't know a lot about the Ion, michaell. Most of them are, indeed, hybrids. You use the gas for awhile, then when it fails to start under gas power (which seems almost inevitable), you push it.

    Gas+Man Power. See?

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    I saw a sticker on an old Hot Rod... said "Gas-Air Hybrid" on it.
  • dougb10dougb10 Member Posts: 185
    Hi oldfarmer50,

    The Ontario seller's package is the Provincial Governments's way of trying to stop fraudulant car sales...especially by "curbsiders" who will weld the front and back from two previously wrecked vehicles and flog them off to your unsuspecting daughter or aunt. It is far from perfect, but it has probably helped.
    The package costs $20 and must be completed by the seller. The buyer must take this to the license bureau when getting new plates/registration.
    The package (called a Used Vehicle Information Package) must address:odometer reading, any liens on the car,Fair market value based on the Red Book (this stops me from selling you a late model Mercedes for $40,000 amd you telling the Ontario Government that you only paid $20,000 for it. As the buyer, you must pay the government HST (13% tax) on the purchase price to get license and registration. If they don't think the purchase price is reasonable, you have a problem.
    That is another reason that I avoided selling those cars privately. I used to get guys buying a car from me for $7,000 and wanting a receipt for $2500.

    That dark red Outback is sharp...ours is a Steel grey/blue which doesn't show the dirt much....good for when we are camping out in the bush!

    Doug
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    edited July 2011
    You obviously don't know a lot about the Ion, michaell. Most of them are, indeed, hybrids. You use the gas for awhile, then when it fails to start under gas power (which seems almost inevitable), you push it.

    Gas+Man Power. See?


    Ha ha ha. As the owner of a 2006 ION, I beg to differ.

    Yeah, I've seen the "Failure to Start" thread, buy my ION (bought new and now has 56K miles) has never experienced this particular problem. As craig is fond of saying, a few horror stories about a car doesn't mean the whole model line run should be trashed.

    Other than the two times the car stopped running for no apparent reason - and I'm starting to believe that my daughter fabricated those stories so she could get a new MINI out of the deal - we've had few issues with our ION in 5 years.

    A boring, soulless appliance, yes. Unreliable, no.

    EDIT: Of course, now that I've written this, I'm sure our car will start to be afflicted with the non-start malady.

    Hey, maybe I can get a new car out of it!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,368
    "...Perhaps you meant the VUE.."

    You're probably right, I never could tell one Saturn from another with all those SC, SL 1,2,3 designations.

    Whatever it was, it was NOT a very good hybrid. I think she said she got 22-25mpg with it. The battery pack had to be changed twice under warranty and now that Saturn is no more she was afraid what would happen down the road.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh, misery loves company and the "Problems Forums" attract people like this like crazy.

    The trouble is, people read these forums and believe what they read.

    I once had a customer almost cancel an order on an incoming CRV because she read about A/C compressor failures.

    " Don't you know, Craig...CRV's are having a horrible problem with A/C compressors going bad?"

    So I asked out in the shop and got a bunch of blank looks. The Parts Dept told me that they had sold ONE in the past six months!

    One guy was griping because his compressor failed after something like 150,000 miles! Poor Baby!

    So, when I went into that forum and tried to gently calm down the hysteria, I got piled on!

    Now, watch my 2003 CRV's compressor blow up later today!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,368
    "...when it fails to start...you push it..."

    LOL! Kirstie, you are in a wicked mood today. No wonder CPS is after you. :P

    Actually, I've seen a lot of Saturns go 150,000 miles without major problems. Another person at work has a nice looking 3 door coupe 5 speed that I wouldn't mind having. With all those plastic fenders you don't have to worry as much about rust which kills more cars in NY than anything else.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Hard to see Middle America on a cruise though.

    http://www.1cruise.com/deltaqueen/

    http://www.greatlakescruising.com/

    Nuff said.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I once took a Saturn in trade that had something like 357,000 miles on.

    The guy had really taken care of it. It still looked good and it seemed to run well although the owner told me it was now "using" oil at the rate of a quart every 2500 miles.

    In the old days, it would have been "clocked" and put on the front row of some small used car lot.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Two Azteks? OK I do support ones right to own an ugly car but having two is abusing that priviledge.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    edited July 2011
    hoping she'll go with the 5. But, will she let me drive it??? Any buying advice?

    Not too much advice. That gear shift selector is really slick though, move it about half an inch for reverse or drive. There is a button also that when it is on, which will be always, puts the car in Park whenever you stop. As soon as you put your foot on the gas it will move again.

    I think the only way to get a larger discount is to find a dealer that needs to make quota at the end of the month. The cars sell any way so they aren't into big discounts...3% or 4% is about it. Sometimes there are specials, my friend went to buy a 5 but the 7 was just slightly more....they had $15k off and extra incentives for cash. They weren't selling 7s as fast as 5s.

    Be sure to take it out on a winding road. The salesman told me to take it up to 60mph then jam on the brakes as hard as I could. Stopped in amazing short space with absolutely no pull or skidding.

    The BMW A DRiving Obsession program was on CNBC last week but they often repeat their programs, might be available on line. If you watch it you will appreciate all the devotion and engineering that goes into a BMW.
    PROGRAM IS ON AT 9 PM THIS WEDNESDAY ON CNBC.

    If you pick one up in Germany you can watch them being made, and I believe you get 7% off the price you strike with the dealer, which will pay for your trip. You drive it around Europe then go to one of 15 ports and they ship it to the USA.

    Not sure what to say about the Lexus. Also, a very nice car, but it won't handle and drive like a BMW.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    I belong to a hotel points club that gives discounted rates -- free nights -- and lots of hotels to choose from.

    OK Sales story (not cars though). A few weeks ago we went away for a long weekend in the Dells. We stayed at a resort that was one of those hotel points clubs. They offered us tickets to a show in order to entice us to sit in their sales pitch. Well we sat through a presentation then sat down to talk with a salesman, he wanted to continue in a sales pitch I just wanted to talk numbers. After going back and forth with me just asking for a price he fnally relented and started to talk price.

    But before discussing price he did he wanted to run a credit check. I said no way that was going to happen just to talk price. They stated it was company policy to check credit before discussing a price. I replied, OK then give us our tickets.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    I hope so going on my first one in about 2 months! I did budget some coin for shore excursion and on board spending,

    Sometimes off shore excursions are well worth the extra cost. Sometimes you are better off catching a tour bus near the dock...or a hop on hop off bus - they are really good.

    For example, the cruise ship sold out of all the tours from Athens to the Acropolis. I looked up on TRipadvisor.com how much was a taxi from Athens to the Acropolis? Actually I just asked the question and trip advisor came up. We went with another couple, it was much cheaper than the cruise ship tour, and we went on our own before all the crowds came. And we didn't have to go in a group.

    In Tulin Estonia we got off the ship and saw a Hop on Hop Off bus right at the terminal. Much cheaper and more fun to explore on your own.

    Some places you need a tour though, I wouldn't attempt St Petersburg, Egypt, Turkey or many other countries without the ships tour.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    Hard to see Middle America on a cruise though.
    http://www.1cruise.com/deltaqueen/
    http://www.greatlakescruising.com/


    OK, but I'd like to see you check out the Grand Canyon or Las Vegas or that place Richard went to A-Hole City I think it was.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    edited July 2011
    I replied, OK then give us our tickets.

    Did you get the tickets? It would be easier and less stressful just to buy the tickets, who wants to hear a sales pitch while on a vacation. Though, one couple in Mexico said they have gone to lots of free dinners and shows, and never fall for the sales pitch.

    The next day I think I saw a guy with baseball bats and buckets of wet cement following them around.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    What I have is not the same thing. I use a Choice Privileges Visa which is a credit card to use which earns room points. All the major hotel chains have similar programs. It pays to belong to something like this and it costs nothing. I never go to time shares "freebys" though I get a lot of mail in that regard.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Yep we got 8 tickets (the number staying in the condo) at something like $20+ a pop. It was worth sitting for an hour to an hour in the half in the AM before the water parks opened.

    We also got three nights accomidations at another one of there resorts.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,593
    Ah ok, got ya. We have credit Cards that earn points as well as belong to a rewards program with a hotel chain where we earn free nights staying there.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    It was worth sitting for an hour to an hour in the half in the AM before the water parks opened.

    Listening to those guys is worse than listening to an insurance salesman for an hour and a half. Hope the show was worth it.

    I think I would rather hang myself......... :cry:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Everytime I see an Aztek I want to laugh.

    I can't imagine what the designers at Pontiac were thinking!
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,457
    some people took me seriously enough that I figured Child Protective Services might just show up one day.

    When my son was 4 or 5 we'd be walking up to a crosswalk and I would tell him "Never cross the street without looking both ways; you might get hit by someone that doesn't have insurance." That used to garner a few dirty looks.
    At about the same time he was a big fan of the Klingons from Star Trek; one day we were standing in the checkout line at the grocery store and he says in a loud voice, "You know what Dad? Today is a good day to die!" The cashier didn't say a word the whole time we were checking out...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,457
    Two Azteks? OK I do support ones right to own an ugly car but having two is abusing that privilege.

    In a recent column I mentioned that since the introduction of the Nissan Juke, Aztek owners no longer have the ugliest cars on the road.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    What's scarier is that the Jukes are selling like hotcakes for us, if you can believe that!

    A couple of years back we took in a REALLY nice Aztek on trade... about 4 years old, something like 35k miles, and this thing was about as loaded as an Aztek could get. I also was joking around with the guy that traded it.

    As some of you know I have a sick sense of humor, so I had the shop check it over and decided to retail it for a few weeks instead of wholesale it straight out. I remember the description was something like this:

    "One Owner! World's ugliest car! Just traded in by its' original optically challenged owner on a non-hideous new Venza, this Aztek is in great shape and has managed to scare other cars away enough that it's never been in an accident. Loaded with DVD player, OnStar, keyless entry, Pioneer stereo, all power options and much more! Tinted windows so nobody will see you behind the wheel too! Don't miss your chance to own this hideous vehicle and scare children with it, contact us to schedule a test drive today!"

    Got a call from someone who had been looking for one, the guy was laughing his butt off on the phone. He came in and bought it. In fact we had a LOT of inquiries on it.

    Reverse psychology works!
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,368
    "...In the old days it would have been "clocked"..."

    I assume that means the odo would be rolled back.

    I wonder how much of that still goes on these days. With electronic odometer readouts I can't help think that some computer wiz kid could figure out how to change the numbers. In the old days there were tell-tale signs of tampering like broken seals or the 1/10 number being a different color etc. With just a bunch of electrons floating around, not so much.

    Then again, with the internet and Carfax, checking milage records is easier. One of my first times on a computer was to run a milage check on an old truck I was thinking of buying. Turned out the seller was lying about the milage to the tune of 100,000 miles.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    I can't imagine what the designers at Pontiac were thinking!

    Probably an ant eater.

    image

    And it isn't like the inerior is that beautiful either:
    image

    Pictures courtesy Edmunds

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • ray80ray80 Member Posts: 1,655
    In a recent column I mentioned that since the introduction of the Nissan Juke, Aztek owners no longer have the ugliest cars on the road.

    Ha, When the better half started mentioning getting something new I suggested we could get an Element, or Scion xa, Juke, or Smart car, and a couple others that might tend to smakc one in the face in the looks department.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    edited July 2011
    Just traded in by its' original optically challenged owner

    What a great ad! There are people who want something different and would love a car like the Aztek. In fact cars like the Juke, Scion, Fit, Element, pretty well say, I don't care what others think....funky is good. Maybe it says, "I can drive an economical car, but still get noticed".

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,176
    Driver, I agree that at times the planned shore excursions could be worth the money, however, we will be in Bermuda for three days and it seems as if we will be fine using their public transportation system to see what we want to. If we were on a port intensive cruise in Europe I am sure I would pay the cruise line for their excursions.

    Coincidentally, I ended up watching two shows about cruise ships last night. One was about Cunard's Queen Mary II, and the other about the building of RCCL's Oasis class ships. They are amazing both in size and the crew that runs them.

    As for Azteks, here is a story about me putting my foot in my mouth.....

    I was visiting a client and we walk out to grab a bite to eat. Since the place was right across the street we decided to walk. As we are walking through the parking lot there is a burnt orange Aztek. I say to the person I am with, "WOW, I didn't think you could make an Aztek much worse, but that color does it. Well, you know the ending, that was her car. She said she knows its ugly but got a great deal on it and it fits their lifestyle.

    Hotel points are a wonderful thing! When I used to travel extensively for work I built up hundreds of thousands of points with Marriott and Holiday Inn/Crowne Plaza. I have enjoyed many a free night! It doesn't cost anything to join and it makes booking really easy as your info is saved.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    Speaking of ugly vehicles.

    A while back I was trying to get a car with a great factory stereo.

    Settled on a Shaker 1000 in a Mustang. Later found out you

    needed Carroll Shelby, Jack Roush and Steve Saleen to sign off

    on the fact that you spent over $50k and had a supercharger

    just to get the Shaker Stereo. Thought I'd look at Scion Xb as it

    came pretty plain with a huge array of add ons (one being a good stereo).

    My wife ended that with "if you bring that home, I'm calling the Post

    Office to come pick up their vehicle".

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,176
    I highly recommend Bob Lutz's new book "Car Guys vs Bean Counters". Really great read and an open kimono look at GM.

    Right at the beginning of the book, he makes a reference to a product planning meeting with some Saturn and some Buick people. The Saturn folks did their research and came to the conclusion that Saturn buyers wanted to be anonymous. What was born out of that were cars like the ION...no particular shape, not particularly good to drive, etc. As Lutz inferred, it was so characterless, no one wanted to buy it.

    The Buick people had done years of surveys and came to the conclusion that Buicks were preferred by elderly people (duh!). Further, they also said that these elderly customers wanted everything done for them. So, they were knee deep in designing a system driven only by speech. The potential customer didn't have to touch a dial...just the steering wheel and the pedals. The rest of the car was operated by voice command. Lutz actually took a prototype out and found out to do something as simple as turning up the heat took 5-6 different commands (vs one simple knob adjustment in a normal system). It was frustrating, so he canceled the program the very next day (flushing years of development down the drain, thankfully).

    I would imagine the Aztec was just another of those "GM think tank" endeavors that made it to market.

    From what I understand, the Aztec wasn't a bad vehicle....very functional and reliable. Just ugly as sin.

    Regarding points for hotel stays and vacations. Sometimes they're worthwhile, sometimes not. I had a Continental Airlines Visa (or was it Mastercard?). I only used it for my travel and business expenses. I probably charged at least $10K/year on that card. I kept checking and checking to see if I qualified for something free. Finally, after 10 years (and at least $100K in charges), I qualified for a free domestic flight on Continental. Problem there, United had just bought them and implemented so many black out dates for using the free flight, I've been looking for ways to use it for almost a year with no success.

    Finally cruises. I know Craig and I are the lone rangers here, but I like them, too. For the money, you'd be hard pressed to find a hotel/resort that included such good meals, with quality entertainment.

    The kicker is, you get to spend that vacation looking out over the ocean, visiting exotic locales the entire time.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,724
    Glad that you concur with my recommendation of Lutz's book. It's a nice, fresh view of GM and management problems of same. I wonder if he ever posted on Edmunds and read Edmund's posts?

    >Aztek

    The Aztek seems to be a cult item for many people to use to criticize GM. The colors choices make a difference. I think if GM had this vehicle and Honda were to have the Aztek design, the GM would still have been criticized. This is as odd to the eye as the Aztek was--imagine this in the popular burnt copper gold color of some Azteks:

    image

    or this:

    image

    >cancelled the project

    From the book, they put a toyota Lexus in a room and studied it. The GM folks put up 90 post it notes on the Lexus to maker things that were deficient and not allowed per GM's rules. Things like Cadillac ashtray that had to function at 40 degrees below zero, so the ashtray mechanic was clunky at normal temps while other lux cars had gentle touch quiet ashtrays.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,176
    I may have to grab that book and read it on the cruise! Thanks for the suggestion.

    If everything I read is true, I am sure I am going to like cruising as well. We had one booked last year, but, with my GF's father passing away we had to cancel.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I, too, own a copy of Lutz's new book, and highly recommend it.

    Regarding the Aztek, Lutz describes it as one of the first crossovers made available for sale, so it really did set the trend for vehicles like the Ford Flex, Acura MDX, Chevy Traverse, and my own Mazda CX-7.

    The stuff about Saturn bugged me, having bought 4 new Saturns over the years.. I don't like to think of myself as anonymous - my wife and I just happened to like the Saturn experience during both the sales process and on service visits. They really tried to take care of us as much as possible.

    Another book you all should find and read is John DeLorean's "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors" - very similar to Lutz's book, except John wrote his on GM in the 50's, 60's and early 70's. What's eerie is how similar the two men describe the company, even with a 40 year difference in time.

    You would think that the lessons about hubris from the 60's, 70's and 80's would be remembered and addressed in the 90's and 00's, but that just didn't seem to be the case.

    I will compare GM to the company I work for - IBM. We celebrated our 100 year anniversary in June, and every employee received a book commissioned by the company, written by former business magazine reporters. What I find amazing about IBM is that it doesn't think of itself as a technology company (a la Google or Microsoft), but rather a company that helps other companies get things done using technology.

    IBM has had it's share of issues over the years - a 15 year battle with the federal government over alleged monopolistic practices, a near death experience in the early 90's, and a 'bet the company' risk to develop the System 360 - which cost the company $5 billion back in the early 60's (almost $40 billion in today's dollars).

    IBM, unlike GM, has been fortunate to have CEO's who can look into the future and see what their customers desire, then focus the company on achieving those targets.

    Re: points - I used to travel domestically for my job once or twice a month for about 15 years. I was fortunate enough to build up enough points on United to be able to take my wife to Hawaii, Alaska and Las Vegas free of charge.

    Now, I just have a Marriott Rewards card (not CC) as we've been staying in Colorado Springs once or twice a month for the past year. Not sure if I'll build up enough points to use them on anything spectacular, but one never knows.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,176
    imid....I don't know that the silhouette of the Aztec was the real culprit of it's demise. I think it was the grill and the plastic-y interior that killed it. You look at a Honda minivan or crossover and you'll see a distinct difference (for the better).

    I remember when the Aztec was showing at a local car show. I sat in it and thought the concept was good, just very poor execution (which is typical GM).

    Not to keep harping on my late Mother's Cadillac fiasco, but there was a case where a $50K car, with all the technology that GM could muster, failed miserably. Further, they acted like it was impossible for them to fail. Guess that didn't work out for them too well given the events that unfolded shortly thereafter for GM.

    Even briefly test driving the current CTS coupe, some of that GM thinking is still prevalent from what I could tell. Not nearly as bad as before, but it's still there.

    I am really kind of surprised they didn't turn to Lutz to be CEO at one point. He's a product guy (not the bean counters). As he said, their goal as a company should be "excellence", something rather foreign to GM, even today.

    Maybe his age was an issue, but he still seems quite dynamic to me.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,792
    Regarding the Aztek, Lutz describes it as one of the first crossovers made available for sale

    That just demonstrates the protective cocoon the US automakers lived in at that time. Here it was 2001 when the Aztek came out and he obviously didn't know about the CRV that started selling in '97, the Forester from '98, RX300 from '99, the RAV4 from '97, and the X5 from 2000.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,249
    Yes, my kids all have a sense of humor and used to play along with the whole sweat-shop job thing. They'd talk about how they loved their jobs making Nikes, or rugs, and how mom let them keep 10 cents out of every dollar to do whatever they wanted. :)

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,249
    We have a better... or worse... program. In addition to having the US Air credit card, my SO travels a TON. Last August, we used up most of the miles & hotel points on a week-long vacation for 5, and now he's back up to over 100K frequent flyer miles.

    I wouldn't say the free vacations make it all worth it, but flying first class does help!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    Review your vehicle

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    In my corporate days, I flew constantly. I belonged to three of the airline clubs. I flew on United and Alaska so much I was almost always upgraded to first class.

    It really spoils a person. My trips to Hawaii in first class were great!
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,606
    WOW, I didn't think you could make an Aztek much worse,

    I think we have all done that at some point....really have to word things carefully. You probably learned from that mistake and became more careful. Did you make the sale?

    I agree, in Bermuda you can hop on a city bus that takes you right around the whole island. The thing that impressed me the most in Bermuda was that people were polite, especially school children. They were dressed in nice clothes and even offered their seats to adults. No swearing too!

    A fellow who lives there said they get their electricity from turbine generators on the ocean floor....why can't we do more of that in North America.

    Enjoy your trip. Another thought that went across my mind in Bermuda, as you look at clear blue water and lush vegetation (we went shortly after 9/11) was, how can people on this beautiful planet want to destroy things?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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