Stories from the Sales Frontlines

abacomike

Mike…91 octane is $3.959 and 93 octane is $4.159. It’s a damn conspiracy.

Of course it's a conspiracy - between owners of refineries and the commodities traders and the big oil companies. They are making record profits this past monthy - the highest profits ever realized by the oil companies.

I use Shell, which only comes in 93 Octane, I believe. I can't use Costgo because their gas has very few, if any, additives. I try to use tier 1 gasolines at all times. I paid $419.9 yesterday, which is the least expensive down here for tier 1 gas - most are over $430 a gallon. This is the highest I've every paid for gasoline - and oil is far from it's highest levels. So it's not the cost of the product, it's the profits they are making from the $92 a barrel oil.

boomchek

Edmunds member Fintail just picked up a 2013 E Class Bluetec diesel for $489/month with very little down. Seems like a decent deal for what you get for the money.

Here's some pics and details of his deal on the Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous thread: Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

dino001

can't use Costgo because their gas has very few, if any, additives

How did you hear that? Sounds like an urban legend to me. To my knowledge, Costco gas par with majors on both quality and additives front. Their sticker claims four time as many, as "generic", which doesn't really give me much reference, but I trust their products. Not a single Kirkland product I bought or used was less than above-average quality, so I see no reason to believe gas is an exception. I've been using it for a few years, since they opened a station - pretty much exclusively. No issues, gas mileage at least as good as it was when I used Shell and BP prior the switch. BTW, I have used premium (93) since I got my first Subaru WRX, which was 2003.

abacomike

Mike, that sounds like one of your type of deals.

Yes, definitely. My car MSRP'd for $65,000. Invoice was $61,000, I paid $57,000. The only disconcerting thing is that dice they are giving these things away, my current car will depreciate. I'd be lucky to get $48,000 trade money on it. Oh well, time will tell. When the ordered car gets here, they will probably have cleaned out all the 2013's. that would help since my car is super loaded. You usually don't get much more for a $65,000 car compared to a $58,000 car.

Like I said, if I don't get what I want for my car, I'll keep it. It's a gorgeous car with almost no miles on it.

abacomike

How did you hear that? Sounds like an urban legend to me. To my knowledge

Dino, I have to use tier 1 gasoline - Costco gasoline is not tier 1. I could use it infrequently with no harm, but Direct Injection Engines have a problem with carbon build up - and to stay safe, I buy Shell. On my other Mercedes cars w/o DI, I always used Costco. Just have to be super careful with Direct Injection.

tjc78

I'm leasing my 2012 LaCrosse so honestly I don't care, but I have direct injection and don't remember being told I have to use anything but good 'ol 87 octane.

I'm sure the Mercedes has a much more advanced engine design, but does the manual specify that you need "Tier1" gas? Just curious.

I have noticed when checking the oil, that it gets dirtier than any new car I've had. This car with 12K on the clock and barely 1000 miles on the oil looks dirtier than my 04 Grand Marquis with 79K and 3000 miles on the oil.

robr2

I have to use tier 1 gasoline - Costco gasoline is not tier 1. I could use it infrequently with no harm, but Direct Injection Engines have a problem with carbon build up - and to stay safe, I buy Shell.

Like your 7.23 months of ownership combined with non tier 1 gas will be a problem for you... :P

graphicguy

driver...that's an awful lot of AIRSUPPLY. I remember I think one of those songs on the radio. But, at the time, if the friends I was running with back then heard me listen to any of that, I would have got a severe posterior kicking, in addition to a healthy amount of "razzing" that would exist until even today.

I was a big Pretenders/Chrissy Hynde fan (still am). That was barely acceptable to my friends, barely. They were more into the whole Sex Pistols and punk thing back then. I wasn't. Matter of fact, because of my older sister listening to the Temptations, Four Tops, Sly and the Family Stone, I have a healthy love and respect for soul and funk, too.

isellhondas

You didn't know about our "secret" society that we had at that time?

fezo

GM recommends tier 1 gas on all models.

Roadside Cafe was like the second coming of Ask Sir Fezo. That was a load of fun. Too bad it all got dumped. There were wonderful song parodies in there along with all sorts of odd things.

RIP marjoe indeed. He drove loads of people nuts but once you knew him he was a good, if very opinionated - egg.

Well, here I am a week into Mazda ownership and the check engine light comes on. Turns out that the intake boot had torn. $300 once you take in diagnosing it. Warranty (which is only 50% on;y covers drivetrain. Par for the course.

Could have been worse. They could have been playing Air Supply in the waiting area.

stickguy

what did you end up paying for that wagon anyway?

stickguy

tier 1 is a wonderful concept, but very limited options near me. There is a shell convenient, but it is very pricey for premium. And the exxon is not much better, and a pain to get to.

My daughter puts Shell in the Volvo, but that is regular, since I gave her a CC for Shell and it is on her way home from school.

For the good car (the RDX) I mostly put in Sunoco. Might not be tier 1, but I still trust the quality.

The Integra, I took care of the problem by not getting gas. I have now had it 2+ months, and shortly after I got it I filled up the tank, and have not put gas in since. I think I have done a little under 200 miles since I bought it. So no, not sure I really needed another car!

driver100

I have to use tier 1 gasoline - Costco gasoline is not tier 1.


Tier 1 gasoline retailers in the USA:

76 Stations
Aloha Petroleum
Chevron
Conoco
CountryMark
Entec Stations
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mileage Stations
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
Quik Trip
Rebel Oil
Road Ranger
Severson Oil
Shell
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.
U.S. Oil

I didn't know about this, so I'll start using it from now on.......learn something almost every day around here.

Article:
Top Tier Gas

driver100

driver...that's an awful lot of AIRSUPPLY.

I agree, more than I could ever want to listen to. I really wondered if I should have mentioned the group, knew I would get comments.


because of my older sister listening to the Temptations, Four Tops, Sly and the Family Stone, I have a healthy love and respect for soul and funk, too.

A little Motown is good....especially on an automotive site. Got cars in there somehow.

driver100

Could have been worse. They could have been playing Air Supply in the waiting area.

I knew I should never have mentioned Airsupply in that post, I'll never hear the end of it.

How did that guy know that intake boot had torn or would tear. Did he put some duct tape over it?

abacomike

Like your 7.23 months of ownership combined with non tier 1 gas will be a problem for you...

robr2, 2 comments regarding gasoline and the cars I drive:

1. It is more than likely I will be keeping this car as I doubt I will get what I want on a trade for a new one

2. I have tremendous respect for the cars I drive and their upkeep and performance. I treat my cars with kid gloves as regards oil, fuel, tires, where I park them, how often I clean and polish them, etc.

Whether I keep the cars 6 months or 6 years, I take care of my investments - my Mercedes Benz cars leave my care the same way they entered my care - with unmatched concern and protection.

That's my choice - and I will continue to care for those things I own until the day I no longer own them.

Kirstie_H

Back in those days, I did very little apart from the also-now-defunct Future Vehicles board.

We still try to keep things fun around here, and I hope you old-timers (tenure here, not age, of course) see that we're a little more flexible than we were 4-5 years ago. As I said, things change... we roll with it... things change again... still rolling.

We're always looking for ways to make the forums more engaging & enjoyable. However, the first person who suggests resurrecting "I don't like SUVs - why do you?" gets a 2x dues increase immediately.

stickguy

here in jersey (at least the southern part), the only ones of those we see are Exxon, Mobil and Shell. With an occasional Texaco.

most of those I have never seen, and probably 1/2 of them I never even heard of before seeing the tier 1 list.

stickguy

Take them out of the bottom of the "what's hot" drop down, and give them a featured spot on the top bar.

abacomike

here in jersey (at least the southern part), the only ones of those we see are Exxon, Mobil and Shell. With an occasional Texaco.

most of those I have never seen, and probably 1/2 of them I never even heard of before seeing the tier 1 list.

Same here, stickguy! We've discussed this before - the only difference between tier 1 gasoline and any others has to do with detergents and other additives. At Costco, they buy gasoline from many different suppliers in large bulk. One day, you might be putting gasoline in you car at Costco that came from a Shell refinery while another day, it could be Sunoco or Mobil, but without the same detergents and/or additives. Costco might have a contract for the refinery to add several additives, but not in the same formula you would get from a Shell station or a Mobil station. The additive percentages and types are proprietary blends - refined and produced according to a strict formula mandated by the oil company. It is very much like having Chicken from KFC or Popeyes or Chick-Fil-A. They purchase the raw materials but the chicken is prepared differently and the ingredients used are different. But it's still chicken.

explorerx4

Mike,
Try not to be too disappointed, but I didn't buy a car today or even test drive one.
While getting my Explorer serviced, I did go into the showroom where there was a loaded Fusion Titanium.
Had a nice conversation with a salesman and sat in the Fusion.
The interior seemed like a combination of my Explorer and my wife's Escape, nice but nothing I haven't seen before.
The exterior is WOW. I love the dark stainless wheels.
The deciding factor in not asking for a test drive was that there was Friday afternoon traffic, so the test drive would have been a pain.
I'll probably wait until next month and see if the car is still there.

abacomike

Try not to be too disappointed, but I didn't buy a car today or even test drive one.

Shucks - was on pins and needles waiting to hear a new car acquisition story. But, in retrospect, jumping into something like that is always unwise (but lots of fun) unless they make you an offer you can't refuse.

Next month we'll look forward to hearing all about the new car!

fezo

what did you end up paying for that wagon anyway?

$6,500.

fezo

I hope you old-timers (tenure here, not age, of course) see that we're a little more flexible than we were 4-5 years ago.

Not to mention 16 years ago! :surprise:

fezo

Well, the makers of all my cars except one (the Mazda) are on the record as saying government mandated detergent levels aren't enough. BMW, GM, Honda, Toyota Volkswagen and Audi are all signed to that. Whether they put that in their manual or not is another story. I use Top Tier since I became aware of it and it's not costing me any more than other major brands. Out this way it is strictly Shell and Exxon. Once in a while I'll hit the Exxon if it's significantly cheaper than Shell but I have always done well with Shell. The local station there is often like an old fashioned station - they clean your windshield and offer to check your oil. They even have free air - but teh air pump isn't by teh gas pumps.

abacomike

I use Top Tier since I became aware of it and it's not costing me any more than other major brands.

Same here, fezo. I use Shell exclusively. I get 32 mpg highway and 19-20 city mpg with an average of 25 mpg combines considering the fact that I do more city driving than highway driving. This, I am getting above average highway mileage based upon factory EPA sticker (20/30 is expected fuel economy) and I attribute that to the use of tier 1 gasoline, and to Shell.

In an emergency, obviously I would put any premium fuel in the car, even regular if necessary, but only enough to get me to a tier 1 gasoline station. Mercedes is one of those manufacturers who recommends top tier 93 octane fuel. And I do "rev it up" when entering an interstate to burn whatever deposits have accumulated in the cylinders heads - usually 4500 rpm for 3-5 seconds until the car achieves the speed limit.

explorerx4

You asked for pictures.
Here is a link to the car I am interested in.
http://familyfordofenfield.com/Hartford-and-Springfield-area/For-Sale/New/Ford/F- - - usion/2013-Titanium-Black-Car/15655071/

isellhondas

Yes, back in the "old days" the hosts were a lot more strict and quick to delete posts and send nasty emails.

One host decided early in the game that she didn't like me and stood on my neck to the point I nearly left. still, I was sorry to hear that she passed away. She was probably just doing the job she was told to do.

And, by the same token, we had some real jerks that would come and go. They would get banned or bored after being ignored. I haven't seem much of that lately at least in the forums I frequent. And, that'a a good thing.

graphicguy

Explorer....that's a good looking car. I like it.....a lot!

Isellhondas....I figure I've been around here since '96. Maybe as early as 95? You are the first person I remember seeing here.

When they reset the threads, I lost track.

Much friendlier place now, than when I first got here.

fezo

Sad. Mike's Mercedes get better mileage than my Mazda.

stickguy

that is one of the downsides of the Mazda v6 I think. Not known for great mileage.

if it bothers you, I might be willing to take it off your hands. I'll swap a nice integra for it.

venture

OnStar is going to start nagging me to renew my subscription soon. I have never used it.

I have used the phone app where you can unlock the doors, flash the lights and beep the horn, check remaining oil life, and for other diagnostics (mostly to check the tire air pressure). You have to subscribe to use the remote functions on your phone so, in essence, I have used it that way, but I have never pushed that blue or red button.

They will send help if you crash and are unable to push a button, but I’ve been able to survive this long without that feature.

I was wondering what others do. Do you keep your subscription current or do you let it lapse? I’m thinking I am getting little benefit for the cost. :confuse:

venture

that is one of the downsides of the Mazda v6 I think. Not known for great mileage.

That is the truth.

I don't have my Mazda 6 anymore, but the gas mileage was not very good. The car was a lot of fun to drive, probably one of the best cars I ever owned for enjoyable driving, but gas mileage was not one of it's virtues.

roadburner

The Edmund's forums probably has the lowest number of Host deleted posts/threads than any other.

Ten years ago that was far from the case; I remember being admonished to stay on topic because I discussed the sound quality of the radio in a Buick Riviera- and the topic was titled "Buick Riviera"...

roadburner

While Top Tier gas will help keep the combustion chamber of a DI engine clean, it has no-repeat, NO effect on intake valve deposits. The reason is simple: With the exception of a few engines that have both port AND direct injectors, no fuel ever touches the intake valve, because the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber(hence the DI terminology).
Automakers are now addressing the valve deposit problem, but current owners of DI vehicles will have to rely on mechanical methods to remove deposits- walnut shell blasting, etc.

roadburner

And, by the same token, we had some real jerks that would come and go. They would get banned or bored after being ignored. I haven't seem much of that lately at least in the forums I frequent. And, that'a a good thing.

Although if you knew how to do it, you could provoke some of the jerks to self-destruct without bringing the wrath of the hosts down on yourself. I remember one guy that was targeted by the usual suspects(you know who you are) and the guy lashed out with a profanity-laced tirade that got him banned about ten minutes after he posted it... :P

abacomike

I was wondering what others do. Do you keep your subscription current or do you let it lapse? I’m thinking I am getting little benefit for the cost.

I do keep my Mercedes Benz Mbrace subscription current mainly for three services I receive:

1. Stolen vehicle recovery. It saves me about $70 per year on my auto insurance because Liberty mutual discounts for this theft deterrent tracking system.

2. If I park my car in a shopping mall lot and forget where I parked it, my iPhone Mbrace app will locate the car for me and direct me to it.

3. If involved in an accident and one or more airbags are deployed, they automatically send police/EMT's to my location.

All of the above are not reliant on cell phone services - they use satellite telemetry and signals. An added benefit is if I need to make an emergency call to someone, they will make it for me.

Can I live without the services? Of course! They charge me $235 per year.

Sirius Radio Subscription

My subscription is up next month so I am not going to renew it. I get traffic (now shown on local streets and routes in addition to interstates and turnpikes), weather with weather maps and wind speeds and rain shown in colors by intensity, and music/news. Since I have HD audio on FM and MP3 DVDs with all my favorite music, I find satellite radio unimportant.

bwia

I was wondering what others do. Do you keep your subscription current or do you let it lapse?

We have two GM cars and continuous OnStar coverge. My wife regularly use the turn-by-turn navigation service but I hardly use mine. Is it worth the high $299 price per year for each car? Probably not. But we look at as insurance and peace of mind.

mako1a

I was wondering what others do. Do you keep your subscription current or do you let it lapse?

I forget who originally asked the question, but you can count me as not renewing sirius as it doesn't get enough use. Taking care of mom requires one or both of us to be nearby thus eliminating any trips much more than 80 miles.

My wife's Denali was I think 3 years old at purchase. They sent us info on changing from analog to digital and renewing On-Star. She declined, then went so far as pinning up styrofoam over the mic/speakers so they couldn't hear her pray the Rosary while stopped. I'm not Catholic, but whatever makes her happy is what we do.

driver100

Here is a link to the car I am interested in.

Looks good to me...Ford did a nice job on the interior too I think.

You aren't under any kind of pressure to buy though explorer, even if we do need a new car sales story.

driver100

"I don't like SUVs - why do you?"

Now there's an interesting topic. Hmmm, let me count the ways...........

(Just joking, please don't fire me)

venture

Mike - I hope you never need numbers 1 and 3.

Have you ever used the car location feature? After completely forgetting where I parked when at a mall around Christmas time a few years ago (really embarassing, I might add ), one thing I always do is look around to make sure I know where I parked.

It's only $199 a year, but I dislike paying for something I really don't need or use.

As far as Sirius/XM - I'm considering not renewing that either. The USB drive I use and Pandora seems more than adequate.

sterlingdog

Mike, I'm doing some catching up this morning on posts. I read your story about the Jag salesman. How dumb is this guy? He missed Economics 101 which says to never tell a customer that they don't need or want something. Were I his boss, I would not be a happy camper. The salesman's experience cannot and should not be the gauge for what future customers will or will not do. Because of people's tastes, there will always be someone who prefers a Jag over an MB. How did he know that you had perhaps grown tired of the MB and wanted to buy a Jag?

I once had a slightly different experience with a car salesman. In 1973, I decided to return home and purchase a large Buick from the dealer who had sold cars to my dad for years. I was even nice enough to ask for Dad's salesman who had been there for years. Here is what he said as I recall:

Salesman: Will your father be co-signing for you?

Me: Why would he do that? My wife and I are both teachers.

Salesman: Well, this is a luxury car and we all know what teachers make.

Me: If I couldn't afford the car, I wouldn't have come back home to buy it from this dealership. Besides, you can check my credit by calling my bank.

Salesman: I'm not worried; your dad would be good for it if anything happened. (CAN WE ALL SPELL PISSED OFF?!)

Me: I want to see Mr. Bennett (the dealership owner).

I then vented to Mr. Bennett. He couldn't apologize enough and took over the entire sales process. The salesman later saw my dad and said that I could "sure crop a temper". My dad's comment, "Only when he's treated badly."

Richard

graphicguy

Interstingly enough, the S4's Sirius subscription was supposed to expire 4 months ago. Didn't get a renewel notice, so it still plays on. I did initially let it lapse on the BMW after one renewel. Don't really miss it, except I can no longer stand terrestrial radio and the incessant commercials any more.

So, my iPod is a neccessity in the car now.

sterlingdog

"I just find that statistic extremely troubling..."

I know that 20% seems high, but I have to wonder if perhaps it could be correct. I'm always amazed by people who don't want a test drive. They just want to buy it and go on their way. My BIL always buys really expensive cars, Lexus mainly, and never does a test drive. Though he never has any complaints, it still blows me away. His wife, my sister, loves Honda Pilots and owns two of them. She never did a test drive. She saw her last one, in blue, as she was riding by the dealership on her way to her office. She called the dealer and had him deliver it to her office---no trade involved. She had not even seen the inside! I could never do that. I also have a friend in Atlanta who once told me that he never fools with test drives. Well, that's three people I know who don't do test drives. These people do walk among us.

Richard

driver100

The salesman later saw my dad and said that I could "sure crop a temper".

I would like to have seen that....I didn't know you could "crop" a temper.

btw.......I'll have to look up that term...never heard "crop" used that way.

I think my worst sales experience was the bmw dealer who said they don't discount new models, and then I got my car for $6K less 20 minutes away.

Next worse was the guy who sold me the BMW and then blew the sale over an easy $1500 he could have given me, and, then we bought the Audi.

But another really bad one, was in the 70s we were looking for a refrigerator. The first place they had a copper color fridge which was good, seemed like a fair price, but, we just started looking so I wanted to check a few other stores. I told the salesman it seemed nice but I wanted to think about it. He said, "We only have a few left and I hope we sell out of them if you come back".

The thing is, I probably would have gone back, but, I didn't want to go back after that.

btw....any major decisions I always say I'd like to get a coffee or something and think about it, before I buy. It was even more important when money was really tight. But, I still do it and it is surprising how often you think of something else.
I'll give an example in next post.

driver100

To keep it brief......I went to a dealer and wanted to lease a 1995 Jeep Cherokee Limited. I was getting my unemployment checks so was on a limited budget, but I needed the Jeep to start a business.

After a test drive I was given a price. My wife and I went out for a coffee, and it came to me, I saw an article where the CAA (like AAA only in Canada) would find a dealer who would sell at the lowest price possible. I went to the dealer they suggested and got a much lower monthly price and a huge difference in the buy back price. Sometimes it is best to think things through before committing.

driver100

, the S4's Sirius subscription was supposed to expire 4 months ago.

We have friends and their Sirius has gone on for a few years without being renewed.

The one on the Passat quit after the 3 months were up.

The one on the BMW had to be renewed after one year. For $95 it is a bit of an easy alternative. But, I wouldn't pay any more than that for it.

Good luck GG, you may have slipped through the cracks.

sterlingdog

"I thought the gov'ment wanted to force us to switch to compac fluorescent bulbs."

Because we like the golden hue that comes from regular bulbs, I've been buying up bulbs. I have a cabinet stacked with 100 Watt and 60 Watt bulbs. We tried the golden hue from the new bulbs and it just isn't the same to us. I hate the white hued ones. They remind me of the 40 years that I worked under those white lights in school buildings. In my classroom, and later in my offices, I brought lamps from home and used them. It was amazing how the lamps had a calming effect on my students. They also helped to ease my eye strain.

Richard

fezo

On the mileage on 6 cyl Mazdas - I knew that going in. I'm OK with it. Maybe next time I'll go mileage hunting. This time it was fun hunting.