It's just that it's almost like the manufactures are coming up with frivolous options (to me anyway) that are driving prices higher and higher as people have to have these "must haves" or " it would be nice" items.
I don't need "adaptive" cruise control for two reasons. One, I rarely use my cruise control and two, I wouldn't trust it.
I think a push button starter is a joke. I don't mind "twisting my wrist around". Whatever that means?
I'm perfectly of capable of opening my rear hatch by myself. I don't need to simply stick my foot under the rear bumper. I may be getting old but I'm not helpless.
I like well equipped cars. I didn't buy an LX CRV, I bought en EX. I didn't "need" or even want leather and I hate the feel of heated seats.
at the risk of getting grief from a few, IMO PPS is way more valued by women. Using the scientific study of me and my wife.
I don't care. If anything, a normal set up is better to me, because I prefer to use the fob to lock/unlock (though I can do that even with the keyless start fob). I just don't usually fish it out, but it is just in my pocket, same as a normal key would be.
Now, my wife, she is addicted to it. usual reason, her purse is stuffed full of way too much stuff, and she loves not having to fish it out.
it does get to be annoying sometimes figuring out how to turn it on or off, get the radio on, stuff that was normal with a key, now you have to read the screen, put on the brakes, say 3 hail marys, or some such combo.
I'm trying to get almost every option, but leave out the sunroof/moon roof. I don't like glass overhead nor the possibility of leaving it open in the rain.
Auto mfrs might want to rethink grouping accessories. Packages don't work. I want to build my own truck, but FoMoCo won't let me.
If Toyota (Tundra/Tacoma) would let me pick options I want and delete those I don't want, I'd jettison Ford and it's mighty F-150 in a New York minute.
IMO PPS is way more valued by women. Using the scientific study of me and my wife.
Then I am sure you would like the Mercedes Keyless-Go set-up.
The car was delivered with the normal key operated cylinder to start the engine. It also came with a push-button insert which is placed into the key cylinder. Once placed there (I think it snaps in), it is a push button start. If you don't like it, you merely pull the push button out and now you insert the key fob to start the engine and operate the accessories.
To enter the locked vehicle or trunk, either use the key fob transmitter to unlock the doors or raise the trunk lid or you can merely walk over to the car, touch one of the door handles and that automatically unlocks the doors.
So, you have the best of both worlds - manual start or stop or push button start or stop.
Most likely reason for using a European model in a commercial, is timing and availability. The commercial may be shot months before the model is launched. Moreover, all Euro brands launch their models in their home markets first, often year or more prior US release and often use same footage for commercials here and there. US models are generally better for same price, at least in terms of engine power and equipment. The only thing Euro model may have better (sometimes and only if you like that kind of thing, which I do, BTW), is suspensions. US market models have sometimes softer, mushier, vague suspensions and steering, in comparison to European market models. Mercedes was notorious for that. Ford and GM also did that to thei so-called European inspired models, like Focus, Fusion, or Saturn Aura or Astra. Seems Americans like when they can turn the steering wheel with their pinky, even if the car doesn't really turn.
You won't see that with Japanese brands, because their US line is totally diiferent than Euro or domestic Japanese. The cars are often not even similar, even if they bear same model names, like Accord, Civic, or Corolla.
I've mentioned this before, but my salesperson had to fight tooth and nail to keep BMW from cutting a hole in the roof of my 1995 3 Series- even though it was officially listed as an option. On that car a sunroof adds @65 lbs. to the car at its highest point. No thanks.
In 2007 VW lost a sale because the local dealers acted like ordering a GTI without a sunroof had a difficulty level akin to achieving cold fusion. My Mazdaspeed 3 didn't even offer a hole in the roof as an option. Couple that with the fact that it only came with three pedals and you see the market Mazda was aiming at.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
And I'll also agree with the poster up above who didn't like the options packaging. Honda lost a sale earlier this year because I could not get an Accord with the V6 without taking the hole in the roof along with the V6. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but there you have it. You want a V6? Fine, that'll be one Accord with leather seats, a hole in the roof, and V6 engine.
In all the years I sold Hondas (13+) I never lost a sale for that reason.
Car manufactures build cars that the majority of people want at the risk of maybe losing a sale once in awhile.
If Honda DID make V-6 Accords without a sunroof and a dealer were to special order one for a customer and that customer backed out of the deal, that store would be stuck with an almost impossible car to sell.
I'm not sure now if they are still made but Honda did offer V-6 engines in some LX Accords. They didn't have a sunroof and they didn't have leather.
They were saleproof. I think I sold **one*** in my entire career.
Can't please everyone so you try to please the masses.
Someone has developed a test to see who loves you the most, your dog or your wife. He said to lock both of them in the trunk of your car, then come back in an hour and see which one is the happiest to see you !
My daughter has a choice of a company car, either a 2013 Ford Escape Titanium or a 2013 Ford Fusion Titanium. I thought the Fusion would be more expensive on the price spectrum but both vehicles appear to be basically the same price.
She is coming off a 2011 Escape and likes the high riding position and would like to maintain that in her new car. But she also likes the Fusion, and thus her agonizing decision. One point about the Escape Titanium is that in comes with 19" wheels standard. She prefers 17" or 18" rims because it would be more quiet for everyday use. On the other hand the Fusion comes standard with 18" wheels.
Both vehicles come with the complete package, SYNC, NAV, leather, park assist, push button start, heated seats, blind side and lane departure warning, etc., etc.
What do guys think, Escape or Fusion? And one last thing, she thinks the Escape's front grill is ugly.
What does she need to carry in it for her job? Does she need the AWD of the Escape?
She is in sales and often carries around new trainees, samples, displays and promotional materials. She does not need AWD, and I believe AWD is an option in the 2013.
By the way, the car is not entirely free. She still has to pay a nominal monthly amount.
She is in sales and often carries around new trainees, samples, displays and promotional materials.
Does she sell software or giant stuffed animals? The latter would justify the Escape.
By the way, the car is not entirely free. She still has to pay a nominal monthly amount.
Ok - nearly free. It's still a good deal. The people I know with company cars track their personal use of the car and report it to the employer. That value is then reported on their W2 under non wage compensation and pay taxes on that amount.
She is coming off a 2011 Escape and likes the high riding position and would like to maintain that in her new car.
Difficult choice, either one will make for a nice vehicle to have. I had 3 SUVs in a row, and then went back to a regular car 2 cars ago.
For a short time I missed the higher seating position of an SUV. Now, I have got used to driving a car and don't want to go back to an SUV unless I really had to carry a lot of stuff. I prefer the driving dynamics of a car, I like the way it handles, I like the lower centre of gravity, I prefer having a trunk that is completely separate from the passenger compartment.....I think it is easier for people to get in the rear seat of a car too. And, it is more pleasant for passengers in the rear to not have storage behind them...including things like windshield washer fluid sloshing around.....or items moving around.
"...a sunroof adds 65lbs to the car at it's highest point..."
Not only that, but it reduces the headroom inside the car. I would have liked one in my Eclipse but that lost inch would have put my head in contact with the ceiling. Also it was part of a $2500 package the rest of which I didn't want.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
LOL! That is a nice car. You could land aircraft on that hood. The milage gets me licking my lips but I already own a 93 DeVille which is only a little smaller. Nothing like driving those old boats, like riding down the road on your couch. If it was mechanically sound it would be fun to go on Sunday cruises.
Your tastes seem to be as all over the road as mine: Mustangs, F-150s and now Caddys.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If we had a 4-car garage, a sense of fairness would dictate that we split the space 50/50 - 2 slots for me, 2 for him. He knows that that would result in my sense of generosity kicking in, and I would put a truck in my 2nd spot. Everybody comes out looking like the good guy.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
In theory 50/50 split is fair, but my wife doesn't care about what she drives. As long as I maintain it and it fits her she's happy. Usually keeps a vehicle 7-10 years. She likes big with good headlights. GMC Yukon Denali currently.
If this color is what I would call a 'lialac', my elderly neighbor has one like this, it's a 1993 with a 350ci motor. And about 130,000 miles. I would call hers 'very good' for the age. I've got this on my ebay watch so I can see what it finally goes for....
"Driver, I disagree about built in NAV. Garmin or any Android (Google Maps) phone is every bit as good or better. My wife doesn't use the built in NAV in our LaCrosse she says the phone is better. "
Try getting directions on a cell phone where there is no cell phone service. Google Maps on android lets you save maps for offline use, but you can't get directions if you don't have cell phone service. Happened to me a couple of weeks ago when we went camping (took my wife's rental.)
"If Toyota (Tundra/Tacoma) would let me pick options I want and delete those I don't want, I'd jettison Ford and it's mighty F-150 in a New York minute. "
Yep, and it works quite well for them. The vast majority of their buyers have no problems with that.
Years ago, a person could order almost anything form the factory and they would build it.
I once knew a guy in his 80's who had sold Chevrolets for almost 40 years before he finally retired. He told me a story about a woman who ordered a new 1967 Impala. It HAD to be yellow with a BLUE interior. They did everything possible to talk her out of it and finally she got mad and left. She went to another Chevy store who went ahead and placed the order.
The factory even called and asked if this was a mistake...Nope, this was the car she wanted. They took a large non-refundable (?) deposit and delivered the car of her dreams. I heard it attracted a crowd at that store it was so bizarre and ugly.
Another guy special ordered a 1964 Impala SS with a six cylinder engine, no power steering or any other option including a radio. Stick shift.
The guy reneged on this deal and the car went unsold for over a year. I understand they had to practically give it away.
This is WHY the manufactures don't let people cherry pick the options they want and for good reason!
Back in '64 The SS was a badge and sticker option. He probably wanted the bare bones car so he could pull the engine out and replace it with a HP version. SS option kind of ruined it as a sleeper.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Mini still lets you pick individual options to a large degree; BMW used to, but no longer; my perfect 128i M Sport build is no more- since to get Xenons you now have to accept a hole in the roof AND power seats. Meh.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
This is WHY the manufactures don't let people cherry pick the options they want and for good reason!
Ford boasts its prowess with flexible manufacturing techniques so I guess Ford, or any of the avant-garde auto manufacturer's, could literally produce any car you want on the fly.
Years ago, a person could order almost anything form the factory and they would build it.
Isell, there is, however, a point at which building the car you want is almost impossible.
I ordered my 2014 E350 Sport right off the ordering protocol sheet the dealer received from the factory. I ordered AMG Sport wheels which also included a leather wrapped "flat bottomed" steering wheel. I also wanted the wood/leather "round" steering wheel for the sport model.
The car comes in from the port with a "flat bottomed" wood/leather steering wheel but the AMG wheels were not on the car. We found out that if the wood steering wheel is ordered, you cannot get the AMG sport wheels. Does that make any sense? Of course not. Luckily the dealer took a set of AMG wheels off another car and put them on my new car at no charge. We still can't figure out how I got a wood/leather flat bottomed steering wheel since you can't order it that way. Mercedes offered to exchange the steering wheel for the round wood wheel, but I declined since I like the wheel it came with. How can they build a car with a flat bottom wood steering wheel if it is unavailable as an option? We guessed they put a CLS550 steering wheel in my E sport since that's the only model that has the flat bottomed wood steering wheel.
I realize that my car was among the first ones built this year, but give me a break. I am happy with what I ended up with, but due primarily to errors.
Part of what is great about Hondas is that there are NO options. This helps if you are (cover your eyes Craig) shopping around, because you know every single car is equipped the exact same way.
It's also maddening if you want something that's not available. Back in 2011 when we were Pilot shopping, my wife really didn't care that much about whatever we bought. "Just not too big" were her exact words. I know she LOVES blue cars (her 2007 X3 was Montego Blue). Honda makes the Pilot in a really pretty shade called Bali Blue Metallic.
I wanted a Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation with a Black interior. I didn't want another Black Car (we had the Black TSX at the time), Silver did nothing for me, but the Bali Blue was really nice. Except on an EXL W/ Navigation, the Bali Blue was only available with a grey interior. However on the Pilot Touring, Bali Blue was available with a black leather interior. Ahhhhhh!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
but you can't get directions if you don't have cell phone service.
Not sure I understand verdugo. My built-in GPS has always worked wherever I have been...believe it works via satelite.
I had a Garmin before the built-in unit. It made lots of mistakes, didn't offer alternate routes, didn't warn that turns or cut offs were coming up (be in the right lane), and the operation was clumsy. Also, the built in one has a larger screen and the sound is better. Now my old one was probably 4 or 5 years old so maybe they have improved, but I like the built in unit - no comparison unless they have improved a great deal.
Also, if you buy a car without GPS it may be harder to sell, and you will probably get at least half the value back anyway.
Driver, Garmin makes many varieties of Navs. I bought one 8 or 9 years ago and it was expensive. $650. A few years ago I saw what I thought was a similar unit in Sams Club and got it for my wife. $230. Not even close. All the neat features she got used to with mine are missing on hers. The expensive one is still better than anything I have seen factory in a car. In this case you really do get what you pay for.
I saw that, but if you try to build one without or get any feature you like it comes up with a yellow warning and deletes what you just put in. Try to put in two tone trimmed leather seats and it takes away your trailer package. It's the stupidest program I've ever seen. I wanted heated folding outside mirrors. I forget what I added next, but it replaced them with chrome plated non heated non folding mirrors. I'm seriously thinking of getting a base unit and grinding them till the cows come home then going aftermarket for everything.
. The expensive one is still better than anything I have seen factory in a car.
Mako, No matter how good it may be, I can't see how it can compare to a built-in unit. If you need it you have to get it out. Then you have to plug it in. Then find a place where it will stay, and fiddle around with little buttons.
The built in unit is always there, just press a few buttons and you are on. To be safe you can pull over to the side of the road, press a few buttons and you're set. The portable units are usually stored in the glove box, so lean over, find it, untangle the wires, put it near the window, fiddle with tiny buttons, and then when you do get it going try to find a place for it to sit, and try not to yank out the cord. Even if it has more actual info - which I haven't experienced - it is still clunky compared to a built-in unit.
I have two TomTom units that were not expensive from 5-6 years ago. Both give lane guidance. I have a newer TomTom that gives lane guidance with pictures of the lanes involved, useful when more than one lane is involved for exit or through traffic.
Also, my newer TomTom has lifetime map updates, which will update with the new map every quarter. All I have to do is plug it into my laptop. It's actually a year old or so model that does more than I ever need. Even has voice recognition for input. And it does the phone thing which I will never need.
Do the incar builtin units update their maps regularly, free? Not from the complaints some stated on the GPS discussion here. In fact, one toyota owner complained about the lateness of updates and the cost to do the maps update.
If I don't like my newer GPS, I can toss it and replace it with a newer, better model.
I can see a point in time when NAV systems, with extended type of services (traffic, weather, etc) will be standard in all cars (much like power windows started as a lux option, now every car has them). It allows the manufacturer's an opportunity to sell their "connected car" type services.
I think GM still offers their "OnStar" service. Not sure of what Ford has. Toyota has "ENTune". Not sure what Honda offers.
I know the Audi had a service making the car a rolling "hot spot" (to the tune of about $500/year). I know the former GF said she used it. Not sure what it was used for. But, when the car came into my possession, and the first time they asked for a CC to bill the monthly service, I told them I didn't need it. They tried and tried to get me to "re-up", but I didn't.
Same goes for Serious/XM. I have bluetooth streaming. I download POD casts on my iPhone (for free). I listen to them while in the car. It's amazing the amount of info that's available for free. I probably have 3 channels of POD casts, just for NPR. I have a couple of POD cast channels for business. I have a couple for entertainment. Those, along with Pandora music streaming, and I'm all set.
Beats the living daylights out of terrestrial or satellite radio.
Mako, No matter how good it may be, I can't see how it can compare to a built-in unit
I have seen many hand-held GPS/NAV units as well as units as part of iphones or other smart phones, but I would have to agree with you that none of them are as good as the one in my Mercedes E350.
One feature is that I can set up a destination on my computer and send the information to my car via satellite and when I get in the car it is already displayed on my NAV system. I can also contact Mbrace (Mercedes answer to On Star) and they can send information to my NAV system via satellite - none of it is done my cell or phone towers - all by their satellites.
The same is true for traffic and weather - it is all integrated with Sirius - my weather info on my NAV map shows:
Direction of the wind and the speed of the wind anywhere in the country Tornados, hurricanes, tropical storms, cold and warm fronts and Highs and Lows across the entire country - all on my NAV screen and all via Satellite, not phone signals. It also shows where lightning has been reported as well as color coded rainfalls with green, yellow, orange and red for intensity. I also receive voice warnings over my NAV system if a severe storm is within 3 miles of my location.
As for traffic, it shows traffic flow on not only interstates and freeways and Turnpikes, but also major artery streets, avenues and boulevards - yellow striped lines for heavy traffic and red striped lines for bumper to bumper traffic and even xxxxxxx if a road is closed due to construction or due to an accident.
I use both features all the time. My phone system will show directions and will talk to me, but my screen is 8' wide and easy to read and the voice recognition is far more sophisticated than in the hand held devices or phones. The integration of these systems (Mbrace, weather, traffic) is outstanding and very easy to use and understand.
Another feature it has is Stolen Vehicle Recovery - if the car is stolen, the police on the scene call Mbrace, give them my code, give them the case #, and Mbrace tells the police where the car is anywhere in the U.S.
I can also unlock the doors to my car, lock the doors to my car, flash the lights and sound the horn through my mobile application with Mbrace which is integrated into the car's NAV system as well. All of this is integrated into the computers in the car without the use of cell phone towers.
One of the problems with ordering the NAV systems in these cars is that it is not offered as a stand alone option - it only comes in the Premium Package along with many other options for $3850. I remember that NAV in the BMW I had was $1800 as a stand alone option, but I believe they have also gone the package route as well.
I also like the fact that you can interact with the NAV system through the controls on the steering wheel, without having to move your head and look for buttons. I just press the voice button on the steering wheel and the rest is all done through voice recognition - destinations, change audio source and stations, make a phone call, receive a phone call, etc.
However, for $300 you can get a hand held unit that is quite efficient like Garmin or Tom Tom if you are not interested in an integrated unit like mine.
I think it all depends upon the quality of the system in the car. It is possible that a Toyota unit is not as functional as BMW or Mercedes and may not be worth the money.
As for updates, my dealer told me that when I bring the car in for its annual A service (oil, filter, etc.) they will plug in an update to the NAV maps at not cost to me. They don't use discs any longer - they just plug the car into a computer and download the updated maps right into the car's computer system that operates the NAV system.
Do the incar builtin units update their maps regularly, free?
No, at least you have to pay to update with bmw. But, how often do you really need an update? Roads don't change that much unless you are a taxi driver.
I guess the new portable GPS units got much better....I still had no where I could set it up properly. I had to balance it on the console and hope it didn't fall off and fall behind the brake or gas pedal....or my wife would have to hold it.....and that's not going to be for long.
I like a built in unit still, and I like where it is positioned.
The problem is that usually the data is a few years old to start. My Buick's NAV doesn't have places that are 5+ years old. It also doesn't have all the changes to I95 north of Baltimore.
I'm not sure why a la carte ordering is no longer viable for car manufacturers. Those older farts like me will remember the days when they, or in my case, may parents, ordered cars. That included color, interior trim, engine, transmission and accessories. In my folk's case it was always a stripper. Not one of their cars even had a radio until 1969 (AM only). They would test a few cars, make a down payment and wait a month or so for their car. I used to hate the interiors of their cars because they would always have vinyl seats, panels and plenty of empty gauge slots where a option would go that they hadn't purchased.
As isell mentioned, some people want to order bizarre combinations, but what percentage would they be? Why not let those buyers get "educated" when they try to resell? Can't the dealer ask for a significant non-refundable down payment that would cover the no-sale-likely car ordered by those oddballs? The dealer could then discount it and unload it on someone looking for a great deal irrespective of the options combination. Others would buy from the lot because they aren't picky or want immediate gratification.
We tried to special order a RAV4 oddity back in 04 by filling out a sheet with our salesman who in turn worked with Gulf States Toyota. Our odd choices were anti-lock brakes (on virtually none of the GST RAVs in the entire region at the time) and a manual transmission. We put a non-refundable $500 down and waited, and waited. A year later we called our salesman and he said Gulf States couldn't (or wouldn't?) be delivering a car to us. I'm sure we would have taken a small beating at the time of resale. Since we tend to buy and hold we were willing to gamble. When the dealer couldn't deliver we ended up with a slightly used 02 with an automatic.
Dealerships and factories are all computer aided, plus factories are increasingly robotic. It seems like a system is in place for more personalized choices. I dislike the way Mazda bundles their upgraded entertainment system with a moonroof. What do those two options have in common? Their "catchy" option title "Moon and Tunes" doesn't make it anymore palatable to me.
On the flip side, Honda's three or four tier system makes it pretty easy to buy and comparison shop. Strangely enough, we were able to buy a new EX Civic sedan in 92 that had a manual--something I guess Honda wouldn't do these days--although I could buy a 4-door SI.
Comments
I like a well equipped car too. To a point.
It's just that it's almost like the manufactures are coming up with frivolous options (to me anyway) that are driving prices higher and higher as people have to have these "must haves" or " it would be nice" items.
I don't need "adaptive" cruise control for two reasons. One, I rarely use my cruise control and two, I wouldn't trust it.
I think a push button starter is a joke. I don't mind "twisting my wrist around". Whatever that means?
I'm perfectly of capable of opening my rear hatch by myself. I don't need to simply stick my foot under the rear bumper. I may be getting old but I'm not helpless.
I like well equipped cars. I didn't buy an LX CRV, I bought en EX. I didn't "need" or even want leather and I hate the feel of heated seats.
But...that's me. your "needs" may vary.
I don't care. If anything, a normal set up is better to me, because I prefer to use the fob to lock/unlock (though I can do that even with the keyless start fob). I just don't usually fish it out, but it is just in my pocket, same as a normal key would be.
Now, my wife, she is addicted to it. usual reason, her purse is stuffed full of way too much stuff, and she loves not having to fish it out.
it does get to be annoying sometimes figuring out how to turn it on or off, get the radio on, stuff that was normal with a key, now you have to read the screen, put on the brakes, say 3 hail marys, or some such combo.
But a moonroof, that is a must have.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm trying to get almost every option, but leave out the sunroof/moon roof.
I don't like glass overhead nor the possibility of leaving it open in the rain.
Auto mfrs might want to rethink grouping accessories. Packages don't work.
I want to build my own truck, but FoMoCo won't let me.
If Toyota (Tundra/Tacoma) would let me pick options I want and delete those I don't want, I'd jettison Ford and it's mighty F-150 in a New York minute.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Then I am sure you would like the Mercedes Keyless-Go set-up.
The car was delivered with the normal key operated cylinder to start the engine. It also came with a push-button insert which is placed into the key cylinder. Once placed there (I think it snaps in), it is a push button start. If you don't like it, you merely pull the push button out and now you insert the key fob to start the engine and operate the accessories.
To enter the locked vehicle or trunk, either use the key fob transmitter to unlock the doors or raise the trunk lid or you can merely walk over to the car, touch one of the door handles and that automatically unlocks the doors.
So, you have the best of both worlds - manual start or stop or push button start or stop.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
You won't see that with Japanese brands, because their US line is totally diiferent than Euro or domestic Japanese. The cars are often not even similar, even if they bear same model names, like Accord, Civic, or Corolla.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
In 2007 VW lost a sale because the local dealers acted like ordering a GTI without a sunroof had a difficulty level akin to achieving cold fusion. My Mazdaspeed 3 didn't even offer a hole in the roof as an option. Couple that with the fact that it only came with three pedals and you see the market Mazda was aiming at.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2018 430i Gran Coupe
And I'll also agree with the poster up above who didn't like the options packaging. Honda lost a sale earlier this year because I could not get an Accord with the V6 without taking the hole in the roof along with the V6. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but there you have it. You want a V6? Fine, that'll be one Accord with leather seats, a hole in the roof, and V6 engine.
Car manufactures build cars that the majority of people want at the risk of maybe losing a sale once in awhile.
If Honda DID make V-6 Accords without a sunroof and a dealer were to special order one for a customer and that customer backed out of the deal, that store would be stuck with an almost impossible car to sell.
I'm not sure now if they are still made but Honda did offer V-6 engines in some LX Accords. They didn't have a sunroof and they didn't have leather.
They were saleproof. I think I sold **one*** in my entire career.
Can't please everyone so you try to please the masses.
Believe it or not, my wife told me this story.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
My daughter has a choice of a company car, either a 2013 Ford Escape Titanium or a 2013 Ford Fusion Titanium. I thought the Fusion would be more expensive on the price spectrum but both vehicles appear to be basically the same price.
She is coming off a 2011 Escape and likes the high riding position and would like to maintain that in her new car. But she also likes the Fusion, and thus her agonizing decision. One point about the Escape Titanium is that in comes with 19" wheels standard. She prefers 17" or 18" rims because it would be more quiet for everyday use. On the other hand the Fusion comes standard with 18" wheels.
Both vehicles come with the complete package, SYNC, NAV, leather, park assist, push button start, heated seats, blind side and lane departure warning, etc., etc.
What do guys think, Escape or Fusion? And one last thing, she thinks the Escape's front grill is ugly.
I'm surprised she gets a Titanium model as a company car. Most companies aren't willing to spend the money above a mid grade model.
No matter what she chooses, remind her that she has the greatest car in the world - one that is paid for by somebody else!!
She is in sales and often carries around new trainees, samples, displays and promotional materials. She does not need AWD, and I believe AWD is an option in the 2013.
By the way, the car is not entirely free. She still has to pay a nominal monthly amount.
Does she sell software or giant stuffed animals? The latter would justify the Escape.
By the way, the car is not entirely free. She still has to pay a nominal monthly amount.
Ok - nearly free. It's still a good deal. The people I know with company cars track their personal use of the car and report it to the employer. That value is then reported on their W2 under non wage compensation and pay taxes on that amount.
Difficult choice, either one will make for a nice vehicle to have. I had 3 SUVs in a row, and then went back to a regular car 2 cars ago.
For a short time I missed the higher seating position of an SUV. Now, I have got used to driving a car and don't want to go back to an SUV unless I really had to carry a lot of stuff. I prefer the driving dynamics of a car, I like the way it handles, I like the lower centre of gravity, I prefer having a trunk that is completely separate from the passenger compartment.....I think it is easier for people to get in the rear seat of a car too. And, it is more pleasant for passengers in the rear to not have storage behind them...including things like windshield washer fluid sloshing around.....or items moving around.
That's just my experience.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Not only that, but it reduces the headroom inside the car. I would have liked one in my Eclipse but that lost inch would have put my head in contact with the ceiling. Also it was part of a $2500 package the rest of which I didn't want.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Have I got a car for you or what!! 92 Brougham in Bluefield West Virginia.
30k miles and looks clean as a whistle. Check it out>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181194728554
I'm current hi bid, but you can have it if you need it more than me.
Last year for the DeElegance Pkg. Wonderful car.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
LOL! That is a nice car. You could land aircraft on that hood. The milage gets me licking my lips but I already own a 93 DeVille which is only a little smaller. Nothing like driving those old boats, like riding down the road on your couch. If it was mechanically sound it would be fun to go on Sunday cruises.
Your tastes seem to be as all over the road as mine: Mustangs, F-150s and now Caddys.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I had an 86 Brougham DeElegance many years ago. That was when they said it's called Brougham because they couldn't spell Chrome.
There was a 41 car pile-up Sunday about 80 miles from here. That's the car you want to be in for that kind of road action.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Or is it that you didn't fit the age range?
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
http://ocala.craigslist.org/cto/3977091106.html
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Try getting directions on a cell phone where there is no cell phone service. Google Maps on android lets you save maps for offline use, but you can't get directions if you don't have cell phone service. Happened to me a couple of weeks ago when we went camping (took my wife's rental.)
Isn't Toyota the king of bundling options? :-P
Yep, and it works quite well for them. The vast majority of their buyers have no problems with that.
Years ago, a person could order almost anything form the factory and they would build it.
I once knew a guy in his 80's who had sold Chevrolets for almost 40 years before he finally retired. He told me a story about a woman who ordered a new 1967 Impala. It HAD to be yellow with a BLUE interior. They did everything possible to talk her out of it and finally she got mad and left. She went to another Chevy store who went ahead and placed the order.
The factory even called and asked if this was a mistake...Nope, this was the car she wanted. They took a large non-refundable (?) deposit and delivered the car of her dreams. I heard it attracted a crowd at that store it was so bizarre and ugly.
Another guy special ordered a 1964 Impala SS with a six cylinder engine, no power steering or any other option including a radio. Stick shift.
The guy reneged on this deal and the car went unsold for over a year. I understand they had to practically give it away.
This is WHY the manufactures don't let people cherry pick the options they want and for good reason!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Ford boasts its prowess with flexible manufacturing techniques so I guess Ford, or any of the avant-garde auto manufacturer's, could literally produce any car you want on the fly.
Isell, there is, however, a point at which building the car you want is almost impossible.
I ordered my 2014 E350 Sport right off the ordering protocol sheet the dealer received from the factory. I ordered AMG Sport wheels which also included a leather wrapped "flat bottomed" steering wheel. I also wanted the wood/leather "round" steering wheel for the sport model.
The car comes in from the port with a "flat bottomed" wood/leather steering wheel but the AMG wheels were not on the car. We found out that if the wood steering wheel is ordered, you cannot get the AMG sport wheels. Does that make any sense? Of course not. Luckily the dealer took a set of AMG wheels off another car and put them on my new car at no charge. We still can't figure out how I got a wood/leather flat bottomed steering wheel since you can't order it that way. Mercedes offered to exchange the steering wheel for the round wood wheel, but I declined since I like the wheel it came with. How can they build a car with a flat bottom wood steering wheel if it is unavailable as an option? We guessed they put a CLS550 steering wheel in my E sport since that's the only model that has the flat bottomed wood steering wheel.
I realize that my car was among the first ones built this year, but give me a break. I am happy with what I ended up with, but due primarily to errors.
Go figure!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
It's also maddening if you want something that's not available. Back in 2011 when we were Pilot shopping, my wife really didn't care that much about whatever we bought. "Just not too big" were her exact words. I know she LOVES blue cars (her 2007 X3 was Montego Blue). Honda makes the Pilot in a really pretty shade called Bali Blue Metallic.
I wanted a Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation with a Black interior. I didn't want another Black Car (we had the Black TSX at the time), Silver did nothing for me, but the Bali Blue was really nice. Except on an EXL W/ Navigation, the Bali Blue was only available with a grey interior. However on the Pilot Touring, Bali Blue was available with a black leather interior. Ahhhhhh!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Not sure I understand verdugo. My built-in GPS has always worked wherever I have been...believe it works via satelite.
I had a Garmin before the built-in unit. It made lots of mistakes, didn't offer alternate routes, didn't warn that turns or cut offs were coming up (be in the right lane), and the operation was clumsy. Also, the built in one has a larger screen and the sound is better. Now my old one was probably 4 or 5 years old so maybe they have improved, but I like the built in unit - no comparison unless they have improved a great deal.
Also, if you buy a car without GPS it may be harder to sell, and you will probably get at least half the value back anyway.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I saw that, but if you try to build one without or get any feature you like it comes up with a yellow warning and deletes what you just put in. Try to put in two tone trimmed leather seats and it takes away your trailer package. It's the stupidest program I've ever seen. I wanted heated folding outside mirrors. I forget what I added next, but it replaced them with chrome plated non heated non folding mirrors. I'm seriously thinking of getting a base unit and grinding them till the cows come home then going aftermarket for everything.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Don't think so.
The SS added bucket seats, different and nicer interior trim, different exterior trim, wheel covers etc.
As I understand it, this old guy wanted the looks of an SS but he didn't want any options at all on it and that is what he ordered.
If he wanted more power, he could have had a 195 HP 283, a 250 HP 327, a 300 HP 327 or one of three different mighty 409's.
The most powerful 409 had 2 4bbl carbs and produced 425 HP.
Back in the early 80's I had a 400 HP version and I wish I still had it.
Talk about GOBS of torque and a sound through the exhausts like no other!
Mako, No matter how good it may be, I can't see how it can compare to a built-in unit. If you need it you have to get it out. Then you have to plug it in. Then find a place where it will stay, and fiddle around with little buttons.
The built in unit is always there, just press a few buttons and you are on. To be safe you can pull over to the side of the road, press a few buttons and you're set. The portable units are usually stored in the glove box, so lean over, find it, untangle the wires, put it near the window, fiddle with tiny buttons, and then when you do get it going try to find a place for it to sit, and try not to yank out the cord. Even if it has more actual info - which I haven't experienced - it is still clunky compared to a built-in unit.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Also, my newer TomTom has lifetime map updates, which will update with the new map every quarter. All I have to do is plug it into my laptop. It's actually a year old or so model that does more than I ever need. Even has voice recognition for input. And it does the phone thing which I will never need.
Do the incar builtin units update their maps regularly, free? Not from the complaints some stated on the GPS discussion here. In fact, one toyota owner complained about the lateness of updates and the cost to do the maps update.
If I don't like my newer GPS, I can toss it and replace it with a newer, better model.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think GM still offers their "OnStar" service. Not sure of what Ford has. Toyota has "ENTune". Not sure what Honda offers.
I know the Audi had a service making the car a rolling "hot spot" (to the tune of about $500/year). I know the former GF said she used it. Not sure what it was used for. But, when the car came into my possession, and the first time they asked for a CC to bill the monthly service, I told them I didn't need it. They tried and tried to get me to "re-up", but I didn't.
Same goes for Serious/XM. I have bluetooth streaming. I download POD casts on my iPhone (for free). I listen to them while in the car. It's amazing the amount of info that's available for free. I probably have 3 channels of POD casts, just for NPR. I have a couple of POD cast channels for business. I have a couple for entertainment. Those, along with Pandora music streaming, and I'm all set.
Beats the living daylights out of terrestrial or satellite radio.
I have seen many hand-held GPS/NAV units as well as units as part of iphones or other smart phones, but I would have to agree with you that none of them are as good as the one in my Mercedes E350.
One feature is that I can set up a destination on my computer and send the information to my car via satellite and when I get in the car it is already displayed on my NAV system. I can also contact Mbrace (Mercedes answer to On Star) and they can send information to my NAV system via satellite - none of it is done my cell or phone towers - all by their satellites.
The same is true for traffic and weather - it is all integrated with Sirius - my weather info on my NAV map shows:
Direction of the wind and the speed of the wind anywhere in the country
Tornados, hurricanes, tropical storms, cold and warm fronts and Highs and Lows across the entire country - all on my NAV screen and all via Satellite, not phone signals. It also shows where lightning has been reported as well as color coded rainfalls with green, yellow, orange and red for intensity. I also receive voice warnings over my NAV system if a severe storm is within 3 miles of my location.
As for traffic, it shows traffic flow on not only interstates and freeways and Turnpikes, but also major artery streets, avenues and boulevards - yellow striped lines for heavy traffic and red striped lines for bumper to bumper traffic and even xxxxxxx if a road is closed due to construction or due to an accident.
I use both features all the time. My phone system will show directions and will talk to me, but my screen is 8' wide and easy to read and the voice recognition is far more sophisticated than in the hand held devices or phones. The integration of these systems (Mbrace, weather, traffic) is outstanding and very easy to use and understand.
Another feature it has is Stolen Vehicle Recovery - if the car is stolen, the police on the scene call Mbrace, give them my code, give them the case #, and Mbrace tells the police where the car is anywhere in the U.S.
I can also unlock the doors to my car, lock the doors to my car, flash the lights and sound the horn through my mobile application with Mbrace which is integrated into the car's NAV system as well. All of this is integrated into the computers in the car without the use of cell phone towers.
One of the problems with ordering the NAV systems in these cars is that it is not offered as a stand alone option - it only comes in the Premium Package along with many other options for $3850. I remember that NAV in the BMW I had was $1800 as a stand alone option, but I believe they have also gone the package route as well.
I also like the fact that you can interact with the NAV system through the controls on the steering wheel, without having to move your head and look for buttons. I just press the voice button on the steering wheel and the rest is all done through voice recognition - destinations, change audio source and stations, make a phone call, receive a phone call, etc.
However, for $300 you can get a hand held unit that is quite efficient like Garmin or Tom Tom if you are not interested in an integrated unit like mine.
I think it all depends upon the quality of the system in the car. It is possible that a Toyota unit is not as functional as BMW or Mercedes and may not be worth the money.
As for updates, my dealer told me that when I bring the car in for its annual A service (oil, filter, etc.) they will plug in an update to the NAV maps at not cost to me. They don't use discs any longer - they just plug the car into a computer and download the updated maps right into the car's computer system that operates the NAV system.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
No, at least you have to pay to update with bmw. But, how often do you really need an update? Roads don't change that much unless you are a taxi driver.
I guess the new portable GPS units got much better....I still had no where I could set it up properly. I had to balance it on the console and hope it didn't fall off and fall behind the brake or gas pedal....or my wife would have to hold it.....and that's not going to be for long.
I like a built in unit still, and I like where it is positioned.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
As isell mentioned, some people want to order bizarre combinations, but what percentage would they be? Why not let those buyers get "educated" when they try to resell? Can't the dealer ask for a significant non-refundable down payment that would cover the no-sale-likely car ordered by those oddballs? The dealer could then discount it and unload it on someone looking for a great deal irrespective of the options combination. Others would buy from the lot because they aren't picky or want immediate gratification.
We tried to special order a RAV4 oddity back in 04 by filling out a sheet with our salesman who in turn worked with Gulf States Toyota. Our odd choices were anti-lock brakes (on virtually none of the GST RAVs in the entire region at the time) and a manual transmission. We put a non-refundable $500 down and waited, and waited. A year later we called our salesman and he said Gulf States couldn't (or wouldn't?) be delivering a car to us. I'm sure we would have taken a small beating at the time of resale. Since we tend to buy and hold we were willing to gamble. When the dealer couldn't deliver we ended up with a slightly used 02 with an automatic.
Dealerships and factories are all computer aided, plus factories are increasingly robotic. It seems like a system is in place for more personalized choices. I dislike the way Mazda bundles their upgraded entertainment system with a moonroof. What do those two options have in common? Their "catchy" option title "Moon and Tunes" doesn't make it anymore palatable to me.
On the flip side, Honda's three or four tier system makes it pretty easy to buy and comparison shop. Strangely enough, we were able to buy a new EX Civic sedan in 92 that had a manual--something I guess Honda wouldn't do these days--although I could buy a 4-door SI.
Gogiboy
I was replying to whoever said that a cell phone-based GPS was just as good as the in-dash one.
A cell-phone based GPS won't give you guidance (AFAIK) without cell phone/Wi-fi service, even if you downloaded maps for off-line usage.